The Twin Spark conversion into the Alfetta is nearly complete but would just like to run a couple of points past some experts.
Below are three photos that I'm not certain of the part shown.
First one is located near the dipstick, this I think is an Oil Pressure switch.
The next is located at the base of the block at the front on the drivers side, by the Air con bracket, this I think is the Oil Level Sensor.
The third one is a bolt that is on the front of the head just under dizzy. I'm pretty sure it mounted the power steering pump bracket. But I also think I remember this one had an earth cable attached, (it doesn't matter how many photos I take before I start, I always miss something I need later).
Thanks for the input, next trip to the shed should see it started.
Alan.
You are correct on all three assumptions.
MD, Thanks for that.
Should get some time in the shed tomorrow.
Now I just need to mske up a new earth lead on top of the other half dozen or so odds and end to finish the install.
Alan.
Well after many interupted months the TwinSpark has finally returned to life.
Now just a myraid of liitle jobs, (like an exhaust system for instance), and it will be off and running.
My biggest problem at the moment is I have no idea where I put the gear lever mounting bolts.
Must be in the shed somewhere!
Oh, and one last question.
There are two small vacuum nipples on the intake plenum.
One goes to the fuel pressure regulator.
Where does the one next to it go?
It's quite a long thin plastic pipe with a right angle rubber fitting on the loose end.
I suspect that's the fuel tank vapour recovery tube? Hook it up to the manifold me thinks.
QuoteNow just a myraid of liitle jobs, (like an exhaust system for instance),
The old Alfetta system should just bolt straight up.
Can't wait to see it . Great Effort.
Paul,
I was trying to use some of the 75 system with the cat and all and the bigger pipes.
But it all got a bit hard and I have now as you suggested fitted the the standard Alfetta system to the TwinSpark headers.
Also had to rebuild the clutch master cylinder, would have been a lot easier before I fitted the engine if only I had known. Finally got it bled and I think it might work, pity we blew the hose from the reservoir to the master cylinder just as we were bleeding it, (Brake fluid everywhere).
I think I just have the handbrake, still the gear lever, put the bonnet on and bolt up the streering wheel. Might get to drive it in a day or so if all goes well.
Well it finally drives.
I'm not happy with the clutch as it takes up very close to the floor, but after weeks of messing around and bleeding I can at least drive it now.
I would have liked to have it out on the EMR but wasn't brave enough to go that far from home on its first real trip on the road.
I did however take it in to South Melbourne to work yesterday and it ran faultlessly.
Just a few little jobs to tidy up,
the central locking needs some sorting out, as does the stereo.
Most important though is to get the speedo working, no idea why this has chosen to stop working hopefully it's just a bad connection that I disturbed during the work.
Oh and one last question.
Does anyone know if the water temp senders are rated differently in the TwinSpark to the Alfetta.
I ask this as the guage now reads about 65 degrees when warmed, whereas it used to read around 80 with the Nord engine.
QuoteMost important though is to get the speedo working, no idea why this has chosen to stop working hopefully it's just a bad connection that I disturbed during the work
QuoteThe Twin Spark conversion into the Alfetta
Could you please clarify if you have installed a twin spark transaxle as well as the sender units in this box are incompatible with the Alfetta/Veglia speedo
No. I still have the original transaxle, nothing in the speedo circuit was changed.
I did have the transaxle out of the car during the build process though, and also lots of connectors under the dash were disturbed.
I need to have a good look at what signals I have where, shouldn't be to hard theres only two wires go to the sender: :)
Hi Alan,
The water temp on my TS reads about 80 deg, while with the NORD engine it was around the 80-90 mark. There may be a slight difference with the unit but the thermofan kicks in at a little over 100deg C so I assume everything is ok :S
I hope this helps a little.
Tristan
Tristan,
Thanks for that, I thought they would probably be similar but with Alfa you can never be sure.
I did change the connectors on that wire so I may have a high resistance joint that is causing the gauge to read a little low.
Just another little job to put on the list.
The temperature on my 75 stays about what you mentioned Alan. It only gets to 80 if it's not moving, or if it's getting the absolute s*** thrashed out of it.
Two cars built in the same month, doing the same thing? There is something seriously wrong with one of our cars.
My 75 TS did run cold until I replaced the thermostat....
Well after a couple of weeks off for the sprint at Winton I had a good look into the water temp.
At room temp they read about the same resistance ~2600 ohms.
The Nord then reads ~270 ohms for a display of 85-90
The TS reads ~315 ohms for a display of 75-80
So it looks like the senders are much the same.
I thought that I might have had an issue with the thermostat, but now think that maybe its just that the rear of the head runs a bit cooler than front.
I base this on that the old Nord switches in the radiator fans just under 100, but with the TS in with the same system it now cuts in at ~85.
These should both be the same actual temp at the thermo switch.
My next task was to try and nut out the speedo, but lo and behold when I took the car out to warm it up the speedo was magically working.
Now I have no idea, the only thing I've done is re-bleed the clutch and hey presto I have a speedo.
Got to love those Alfa gremlins.
with the speedo is it still the cable driven one. the reason i ask is that when i had my fetta the cable stretched and stoped working and then in must have wound it self up a bit and started to work again but it then seemed to fluctuate a bit though. the reason this happened was where the cable runs through the engine bay it heated the cable and the insulation around it. i replace the whole thing and re routed it away from the engine
No good old Alfa electronics.
I'll just wait and see how it settles down I guess.
QuoteMy next task was to try and nut out the speedo, but lo and behold when I took the car out to warm it up the speedo was magically working
Alan,
In the speedo head there is a printed circuit board. Replace all the electrolytic capacitors on the board or get a technician to do it for you. They must be of the same values and fitted in the correct polarity.
As they get old, they dry out and cease to charge up correctly and therefor upset the circuit values hence she no worky consistently.
Alan,
Congrats on your conversion - how is it going?
I'm gathering info to do the same thing and was hoping I could pick your brain about items that are not a straight swap please?
how have you dealt with:
- wiring loom integration - anything tricky?
- shift linkage - all alfetta? I would be using TS transaxle..
- fuel pump/return line
- clutch master hitting plenum?
many thanks,
martin
Martin,
Sorry but I haven't been online for a while so just saw your post.
The good news is the car is on the road and running well.
Starts first time and runs like a dream, my son is using it for his commute down to Geelong 4 times a week and even he thinks its better than the train.
As I'm sure you've heard the twinspark just drops in.
And yes it does physically. or just about.
The only snag is as you said the clutch master cylinder which fouls the plenum.
I replaced the pedal box assembly and booster box assembly with one from a 75.
This has the clutch master cylinder sloping down at something like 5 degrees which give a bit of clearance.
I had no trouble clearing the bonnet but it must be mighty close.
While on the pedals does your Alfetta have a rod and linkage accelerator or a cable type?
I'm pretty sure that around 84 they changed over, in the GTV when they moved from the split dash I think.
If you have a rod and linkage system, then the pedal box is slightly different to a later one or a 75 one.
The early ones have a square face where they mount to the firewall.
The later and 75 ones have a small semi-circular indent in the side closest to the right of the car.
This is where the accelerator cable runs.
I just drilled the right size hole, in the right place (not that easy), and fitted a late model pedal.
Then just used the twinspark cable.
Plumbing: used the Alfetta overflow tank, bottom hose.
Replaced bottom feed to the thermostat housing with a cut down EA? falcon V8 hose, it was the right diameter and had the right bend but was wayyy to long.
The top hose is made from a combination of sections joined together.
Air box, fits real snug, and has a big piece cut out of the back of it:-)
Coils were bolted to the inner guard, one behind the airbox, the other beneath it.
Taking care that the loom reached.
If you like PM me your email and I'll send through some pictures.
Alan.
The engine loom is quite straight forward, and swap over and mounts pretty well.
I mounted the ECU in the passenger side, and got the cable through the fire wall by enlarging the existing hole I had for one of the air-con pipes.
The air-con was pulled out long ago.
Apart form that there are just
- the large red power feed connectors, for these I made 12volt post in the front left corner which connects to the alternator charge lead, the ecu loom, the main power feed to the car, and also to my headlight relay loom.
- a big earth lead between the head and the chassis
- and the 6 way (I think) connector which connects into the main body loom.
I only used three of the wires in this connector from the engine loom.
1. Ignition feed - this comes straight off the old coil feed, (Green & Black from memory)
2. Tacho signal - again this comes straight off the old coil, (White)
3. Fuel pump feed - this was a new run down to the fuel pumps.
Fuel pump / return.
I fitted a 75 pump under the rear seat just inside the chassis rail on the right, just like a 75.
I also pulled the sender assembly out of the Alfetta and replaced it with the in tank pump from the 75.
This means I have no fuel gauge but does give me an in tank pump and a fuel return port.
I have also seen the return use the vent fitting near the top of the fuel filler neck
I also used the fuel pump loom section for the 75 so only had to get the power feed to the front one, and find an earth.
Shift linkage / transaxle.
Afraid you are pretty much on your own here, I kept the Alfetta box so had no real issues.
You can make the later Isostatic linkage fit, but might need to "adjust" the floor pan for some clearance at the transaxle.
You also need to swap the gear lever as it is longer or shorter, (I can't remember which!)
The speedo sender could also be an issue, as could the clutch slave.
Alan - thanks! Appreciate you taking the time to go into details - sure helps alot. Its hard to get this info so I'm very grateful!
In case your fingers are up for a bit more work ;D:
Would the TS exhaust be a reasonable fit besides needing shortening? I've got a full stainless Supersprint exhaust with headers on the 75 right now which i want to relocate..
Having an early Alfetta and using the 75 pedal box "only" requires drilling another hole for the acc. cable to fit - correct?
I just posted on Colin's 105 thread about the need for the surge tank he has, since mine will be a track car. Is the 75 in-tank pump a good fit in the Alfetta tank? I read about others just using the external 75 pump...
My main worry at the moment is the wiring - where to integrate it with the alfetta loom - i guess it will become clearer when I look at it.
thanks again,
Matt,
Exhaust: Forgot about that.
I have the standard TwinSpark cast headers fitted.
These then bolt up directly to the Alfetta system.
I had a go at adapting the TwinSpark system, as even the standard one has a much bigger pipe than the Alfetta.
The front section of the standard system bolted up OK, but did need the 75 hanger mount on the rear of the engine extension.
The mid section looked like it could be shortened by the 100mm ish that is needed for the 2 door.
I ran into trouble with the rear section.
The floor pan is quite different in this area with spare wheel well and tank being on opposite sides compared to the Alfetta.
Judging by the trouble I was having I think the axle 'hump' might be a bit different too.
I still hope to get this system fitted at some stage, but will need to have a new rear section built up.
Having an early Alfetta and using the 75 pedal box "only" requires drilling another hole for the acc. cable to fit - correct?
Well kind of.
It did take a full day to remove the two boxes from the two cars and then refit to the Alfetta.
But the pedal box does bolt up OK, I did swap the brake pedal over also as the 75 one seemed to hang funny.
You also need the cable accelerator assembly, I think I used one from a late Alfetta so don't know how the 75 one will fit.
The in tank pump seemed to sit quite well in the tank. I don't know how low, so how empty I can run the car.
I've been very conservative with the range at the moment with no gauge and not knowing when it will run out.
I really must run it right down one day soon and see what happens.
As you say there are others who are running just the external pump.
The wiring was dead easy.
I cut off the 6 pin engine loom to body loom connector, and fitted a 4 way water proof Narva init form good old Autobarn.
I ran two wires as a pair along the inner guard to where the coils used to sit, and connected these into the Ignition feed (Green and Black), and Tacho (White)
Then all I needed was a single heavy gauge wire which I ran inside the cabin along the sill to power the fuel pump.
As I said that and power and earth and you are good to go.
There is also a fuel quality plug, (looks like a relay), which is in the engine loom right near the ECU.
There a four options available here.
Fuel octane: 91 or 96ish
Cat: installed or not.
In Oz the 75 is set to 91 Octane and a Cat, which puts the ECU in closed loop mode.
Theres another thread hear somewhere that details what jumper connections you need in the socket for 96 Octane and a Cat.
I have 96 Octane and no Cat, and this is really easy, just take out the jumper box.
Hi Alan,
Just to confirm, if your running a TS on 96 Octane or better fuel, with no cat, you simply remove any relay and run the car without anything in the connector?
Cheers,
Tristan
yes Tristan, thats what the documentation on the net says. Others have tried it whilst running a cat too but I wasnt gonna try that.. ;)
Tristian,
Have a look here on Craigs place. Lots of other stuff here too.
http://www.users.on.net/~craigf/fuelquality.htm
Alan
Hi Guys, searching around, and wondering if the 75TS has an ignition switch relay standard, unlike the earlier cars? I read recommendations to add this for older cars to help speed up wipers etc. My wipers are the usual slow, have cleaned the ww motor, so searching for where next to try. thanks.