Hi folks,
This is something that has been discussed before from time to time, but after a recent few days of heavy rain (my car was parked on the driveway) water has started dripping into the passenger and drivers side footwells on my 156. I spotted a very slow intermittent drip on drivers side about a week ago, but yesterday it really soaked the passenger's side.
I couldn't find any obvious leaky points around door or window seals, but just opened the bonnet and noticed the long rubber seal that runs across the top of the engine bay parallel to the firewall had popped off at the driver's side end where it curves around to the door, and was loose at the opposite end on the passenger side. The big fat rubber triangle that fills the gap between quarter panel and bonnet closest to the corner of the windscreen on the passenger side is also very soft and has really started to perish.
So my question is, are these two issues likely causes for a leak as described (I've already forced the long seal back into place) or should I keep looking?
The other possible concern I have is that I recently had my AC repaired (first time I've had working AC in 4 years...) and wonder if the leak could somehow be connected to AC now being used (eg condensation, overflow or loose pipe connection somewhere behind the dash?). The water is completely clear and looks fresh, so appears more likely to be from the rain.
Hi Poohbah
I would start with the A/C condensation drainage leak, by lifting the carpet to expose the drain hose has not dislodged and not leaking when A/C is turned on. Failing this I would try and simulate wet weather condition by pouring bucket of water on both sides of A pillar and check for internal leak with doors and windows in the closed position. I do recall you had a windscreen replaced some time back and this maybe the root cause of the problem, if leak is found.
Regards
bonno
Sunroof ?
Thanks fellas
No sunroof in my car.
Exactly where is the AC drain hose located? Water appears to be dripping from somewhere directly behind behind glovebox/dash, not under the floor carpet.
And you are correct Bonno, I did have windscreen replaced in late 2018 (or early 2019), but I haven't noticed any leakage from then until the last week or so.
The drain is just to the right of the heater water pipes against the firewall in the engine bay. You'll feel the bottom of the rubber bellows protruding from the insulation.
This will give you an idea -
https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/gt-air-con-drain-pipe-location-help.668753/ (https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/gt-air-con-drain-pipe-location-help.668753/)
thanks Bazz - how the hell do you get your arm in there? Though obviously a breeze with the engine out like in the pic.....
I'll see if I can get down there, but I'm not optimistic I have the necessary dexterity.
I've done some reading of similar threads on that and other forums. Seems very likely the water is AC related.
Based on reading those threads, I think I should also remove the wipers and plastic scuttle panel to get to the drain hole in the centre of scuttle and check the big recess near the LHS corner. (as in this link https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/alfa-156-passenger-side-leak.317071/#lg=thread-317071&slide=2 (https://www.alfaowner.com/threads/alfa-156-passenger-side-leak.317071/#lg=thread-317071&slide=2)
I do recall that long before the AC was fixed I would hear "sloshing" coming from behind the dash when I went round a corner.
Supplementary question - if I can get my arm down to reach the AC drain, I assume I'll be working completely blind. So what do I actually do to check/clear it? Squeeze, poke what?
Is it just an opening at that location on the firewall that I should be able to unblock by finger (or some other pokie tool) or is the actual opening somewhere else underneath the car?
Hi Poohbah
You could try poking a length of wire through the opening and gently poke around to clear any obstruction. If this does not do the trick, you need to get access from inside the car were the drain hose connects to the evaporator casing.
I use either a long cable tie or the inner braided cable out of a bicycle brake cable. (Very long & flexible)
For access try removing the Throttle Body and associated piping, either that or a really small child that you can lower down in there.
Thanks guys, that's all helpful.
Does the opening face up, down or sideways? In other words will I have to insert the cable from below the opening - that will obviously require a bit more jiggling room.
Unfortunately, I can't get to it today - car is having a sleepover at the office (big night last night :)
Quote from: poohbah on March 06, 2021, 10:56:45 AM
Unfortunately, I can't get to it today - car is having a sleepover at the office (big night last night :)
For you or the car? ;)
Hopefully just me - I wouldn't like to think it was doing donuts in the basement in my absence.
Well hopefully it is now fixed.
First I cleared the drain hole under the scuttle panel - it was jammed with leaves and an old screw top from the power steering reservoir ! (see crud pic). Thought that might do it, and drove the car with AC on full for 40 mins. Didn't see any drips but when I got on my knees and started poking round the carpet, it was still very wet, and very heavy dripping was coming from the upper right hand side of the AC fan assembly (area shown in 2nd pic).
Following Bazz's directions, I managed to squeeze my arm down between engine and firewall - it took a bit of bending, and pushing against the hoses from the reservoir above (either power steering or brake fluid reservoir - can't remember which). I was then able to poke my finger up into the AC drain.
It didn't feel like anything was clogging it, but the rubber sleeve/pipe did seem to be a bit compressed into a slight U shape within the drain recess. With a bit of manipulation water soon started trickling out - not gushing like I'd seen in some reports from folks who had fixed similar issues, but a steady trickle nonetheless.
Started her up, put AC on full with a fresh bit of paper towel in footwell so I could see any dripping - bugger there were a couple (but small and very spaced out) coming from the same area near the fan. I checked under the car and good to see that it was still trickling out steadily. I had never thought about it before, but now that I do, since I got the AC fixed I don't recall ever leaving a puddle under the car as you would normally expect to see after driving with the AC going.
So I'm hoping the interior drip may just have been from moisture that had already dribbled into the cabin before I cleared the drain.
I guess I'll know for sure when I go to work tomorrow and the car does a full commute with AC on in traffic, but I am pretty optimistic the issue is fixed.
No it isn't fixed... >:(
Can still hear sloshing coming from LHS behind glovebox, and dripping onto the carpet on the way to work.
Water has clearly pooled somewhere in there and overflows when the AC is on. To check I turned AC off half way to work (with fan still on) and put fresh square of cardboard down which was bone dry when I got to work.
Any suggestions where it might be collecting, given it's dripping from around the fan assembly?
I can pull the LHS pollen filter out and check if water has overflowed into the vent recess when the scuttle drain was blocked, but I doubt that is the problem because it only drips when the AC is running.
Now I am confused.
Drove home from the office this evening with AC on whole way and not a single drop. Cardboard I put down was bone dry.
Still heard some sloshing from behind dash/glovebox though. And AC/fan was only on low. So if I'm being pessimistic I suppose it could be simply not enough condensation formed in 30 minutes to create a problem.
The sloshing you hear is most likely air/water running through the heater matrix hoses.
I have heard it in other 156 cars and they didn't have water leak issues.
I would say that your drain pipe is still partially blocked and needs the long cable tie/bike brake cable treatment still.
Cheers Bazz, will do it again with a cable when I get a chance.
9am Update: No drips this morning after 1 hour in heavy freeway traffic with AC going.
I'm sure you won't be surprised to hear that its still leaking after about 45 min of AC operating.
I gather that the rubber opening I can get my fingers into is merely a flange and that the actual pipe outlet is higher up, projecting horizontally out from the firewall? I've tried wire and long cable ties to get into it with no luck.
Of course I am trying from above - is it easier to do from underneath?
My jack doesn't lift enough to get axle stands under the at high enough extension for me to try from below the engine.
It's bloody frustrating.
Hi Poohbah
Are you able to view and inspect the drain hose/s from inside the car by lifting up the carpet enough around the back of the firewall.
I've pulled the carpet on the firewall back but it only extends up about two thirds of the height of the footwell, and the water is coming in from quite a bit higher than that and runs down onto the fan casing. Above the carpet limit, the firewall is entirely hidden by various electrical wires, connections, panels and gubbins. Judging by the location of the outer drain, the interior side must be roughly level with the floor of the glovebox, but just to the left of the centre console. I really can't see how to get in there without disassembling the entire console and everything behind it. Given my past experience, that is not something I want to risk.
I think my best option is to try and raise the car and attack it from underneath - there appears to be a clear line of sight.
Unfortunately I don't have the right gear to do that. My trolley jack doesn't have enough reach to get sufficiently tall axle stands under the jacking points. My wheel ramps are also too short and steep to fit under the nose (my car is lowered) so at the very least I need to get hold of some planking/beams to use to provide more gradual incline onto my ramps. Or maybe borrow ramps with a less steep angle of attack.
Just wanted to close out the loop.
My final efforts at clearing the drain (poking a length of flexible plastic into the flange on firewall) worked apparently.
I've been driving around for the last month using AC most of the time - no more leaking into the footwell, and I usually spot a small puddle on ground when I switch off.
As we used to say in the RAAF, "If at first you don't succeed, use a bigger hammer!"
(Or in this case, longer plastic strip)