Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Technical => 940 Series (Giulietta, Mito and 4C) => Topic started by: poohbah on November 10, 2020, 02:02:30 PM

Title: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on November 10, 2020, 02:02:30 PM
I'm toying with the idea of making an offer on a 2014 QV on sale at a local Toyota dealer.

I originally came across it when a work colleague was looking for something to replace her boring Golf, but she rejected it cos she couldn't live with the Alfa's audio/bluetooth setup  - the kinda stuff that I couldn't care less about.

It appears to be in mint condition, 6sp manual with a tick under 50,000km and serviced as required, and priced a bit over $16k. Clearly not the usual Toyota buyers choice.

What's the recommended timing belt/water pump change schedule for this model (and assuming its lived its whole life in city traffic)? I suspect it's probably due, hence the timing of the prior owner's sale.

Not overly scary to me (though I have just spent $$$$$$$$ on the latest belt change for my V6 156...), but would be a possible bargaining chip with the dealer.

Also, can anyone give me a rough idea of how the usual cost compares with getting it done for a 156 Busso - higher/lower/similar?

Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: lombardi on November 10, 2020, 02:24:23 PM
Timing belt service 60 k or 3 years , whatever comes first , Budget around $ 1100 to 1400 , shop around , one mechanic in syd quoted me $ 2500 lol.

Having owned a QV 2015 from new , an ok vehicle , but its front wheel drive so a bit disappointing , found it a bit bland after a while , body quality not that good either , just missing something ,  UR possible purchase sounds a bit pricey as well , considering there was an update in 2015 , i would not buy another one as a previous owner .
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on November 10, 2020, 03:54:51 PM
Cheers Lombardi, and thanks for the honest feedback.

As the 156 is FWD too, I can live with that (plus I've got the Alfetta GTV for rear wheel fun...)

East coast market is clearly different to Perth  - there are very few QVs available here, even fewer with the 6sp manual (I'm really not interested in a TCT).

Of the tiny handful I've managed to find so far in WA, anything from 2015 or newer in QV or Veloce spec starts well above $20k.

I must admit, I never really considered a Giulietta til my colleague started talking about it, but I was quite taken by this particular one as it has the specific trim I like - silver with the big GTA-style teledials. (only other colour I like them in is white, and I really dislike all the other rim styles used across the range)

But I haven't even driven thjs one yet or - more importantly - dropped any hints to the missus. Which means it is still very much in the "maybe" column. (though she would possibly welcome me buying something "modern" for a change).

Hence the query about cambelt schedule and cost.

I'm almost certain it hasn't been changed, and given the age, that would be a gotta be done asap item if I were to go any further.

Buying it would also mean I'd have to get rid of the 156, which I do really love (and am jus about to have bonnet resprayed), so I'm just as likely to balk at the last minute anyway.
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: Craig_m67 on November 10, 2020, 03:58:50 PM
I have a 2011 6spd manual QV (sunroof/Bose stereo, etc) just about to tick over 150K km

I canít think of another small car that is as much fun or engaging (at the price point).  The only thing I can think of replacing it with is Stelvio Ti, and theyíre hardly comparable classes.

Bluetooth (BT) is easily supplemented with a $5./ eBay BT/Aux in USB dongle.  I can stream from any phone/device and the in-car BT was always happy to connect to my iPhone 6, 7, X for calls/Siri etc from the steering wheel.

Cam-belt schedule for my car is every 105K km or 5years.  4years if itís a crap environment.
I would have another, specifically a blue QV with sunroof and all the toys (like mine) - if I could find it.

Iíve been through:
Aux/Cam-belt and water pump change
Set of tyres (Michelin PS4)
Front discs and pads (OE Brembo)
Front engine mount (OE)
Thermostat (OE)
MAF / Pre cat O2 sensor / Turbo hose (last week)
Just about to do the front brakes again.... (car lives in D)  ;)

Had to repair the rear wiring loom in the hatch (think the later models have this sorted)
Otherwise the car has been great, itís never left me stranded (limp mode is pretty flat though)

My car lives in D, my son flicks it into D if I forget or are not quick enough
Maintenance has been easy (messy oil changes aside)

If you want the manual, I would get an early car. Theyíre cheaper and have more toys.  Iím not put off by high mileage on Alfaís, itís condition and servicing that matters.

Cambelt is not that spendy or difficult to change, and not nearly as convoluted as the Busso. 
I wouldnít leave it though, get it done with the pump when in doubt

You will endanger your license and giggle a lot when itís in D - itís a brilliant car.
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: bazzbazz on November 10, 2020, 04:11:29 PM
By the book, the service advice for your year Giulietta 1750 TBi is -

"105,000 km - However, regardless of the distance covered, the timing belt must be changed every 4 years for particularly demanding use (cold climates, town driving, long periods of idling) or at least every 5 years."

As is the usual case, just about all cars expire on age, not mileage. I wouldn't take the car your looking at past 60,000 km/4 Years.

With the Giulietta QV the issue is not the timing belt as much (Uses an improved belt over the 2.0 TS/JTS), but the water pump, as earlier versions used the same pump as the 156/147 2.0 TS/JTS. Later models use a improved version of the pump and it is not such an issue.

There are two other points to watch for -

1/ The rear hatch wiring looms - The wires in them have a tendency to break. It's more of an issue in the UK due to temperature extremes but still does happen occasionally on aussie cars.

2/ The drivers side engine mount - If you notice any vibration of the drivers side exterior mirror (stationary at idle), vibrations through the dash or steering wheel as you drive, it needs replacing. It's a common issue on all models of Giulietta.

Costs of getting the belt & pump done are half that of the Busso. Get the engine mount replaced during the belt change as it has to come off to do the belt anyway, so its zero labour cost to get it done at the same time.

You CAN get them cheaper, but they usually have more mileage/wear & tear. I suggest you take it for a test drive and put it into "D" mode . . . . it'll take you 15 minutes to stop giggling.  ;)

(Sorry for the repeated info, it appeares the others saw your post at the same time as I did, they just type faster than I do.   ::) )
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: Craig_m67 on November 10, 2020, 04:15:37 PM
At least weíre consistent and can giggle about it!

Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on November 10, 2020, 04:17:02 PM
Cheers Craig and Bazz.

I appreciate your assessment of the driving experience - I guess it will really come down to what I think after having a go myself.

I gather the 2014/15 cars were the last ones that came with a conventional 6sp manual, and seriously this is the only manual QV I've seen on sale here for a very long time.

In fact, currently I can only find two other QVs listed (both with TCT and 2015) anywhere here in Perth. I'd happily look at an earlier QV with manual if there were any around...

And cheers for the excellent tips on what to look out for. and how nice to hear the belt change should be less than for my Busso - I still wince everytime I have to get that done (I've had the "pleasure" of three changes over two 156s in the last 7 years).

The yard has called me back and left a message - I emailed to ask about the belt - so will know shortly. My money is on it needs to be done.
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on November 10, 2020, 04:22:35 PM
This is the car. As I said, this spec (or same in white) is the only Giulietta I'd ever consider.
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on November 10, 2020, 10:29:44 PM
well I've confirmed it hasn't been replaced, so will go for a test drive and a proper going over when I get a chance and if I'm still interested will go in hard on price.
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: Colin Edwards on November 11, 2020, 08:36:33 AM
SWMBO recently parted with her 2015 Giulietta QV with around 45K on the clock for $18K.  $16K from a dealer for a 2014 seems fair enough.  You will have some sort of warranty so if the belt lets go then its on the dealer.

SWMBO picks up her new Giulietta Veloce in a day or two.  This will be her third! 

Install a Quaife or Torsen LSD.  Makes a huge difference to corner exit traction and tyre life.  A nice set of PS4's or Pirelli Corsas - very quick around Winton.  Never bland!  Its a 21st Century Sud without the rust!!
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on November 11, 2020, 09:44:00 AM
Cheers Colin, if I buy it'll be a cash offer so will try to get closer to $14k. Doubt they gave more than $10k to the prior owner when they traded it for a new CRV.
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: bazzbazz on November 11, 2020, 09:57:14 AM
Trading a GQV for a CRV . . . . "The Horror!"   :o
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on November 12, 2020, 11:44:58 PM
Well I went to see the car and test drove it today.

It was in beautiful condition, well cared for, and was quite a spirited and engaging drive. I'm also confident I could get it for under $14k.

But I'm going to pass.

I can't fault it for what it is, and I can understand those who love their Giulietta.

But it just never made me feel like i was in an anything but an ordinary modern hatchback.  The interior (black leather, red stitching) in particular felt indistinguishable from any similar-spec Euro car of the last decade.

As good as it is as a car, I just never felt the buzz I get when driving either the Alfetta or my 156.

I came away trying to convince myself of reasons I should buy it. In the end I knew I'd just end up pining for the quintessentially Italian red leather interior, timeless styling and Busso bass-line of my 20 year old 156 - even though the Giulietta would run rings around it on the road.

To be honest, I think I'm just an analog type of guy and that contemporary cars really aren't for me.

Where's the Autotrader? - time to find that 75 3.0L I've always wanted...
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: bazzbazz on November 13, 2020, 08:50:16 AM
In the end I knew I'd just end up pining for the quintessentially Italian red leather interior

So, you have a fetish for interiors that resemble a 1930s Bordello?  ???

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on November 13, 2020, 10:26:56 AM
Guilty your honour...

I think all modern cars have been spoiled for me - cars these days are all too much alike within their resepective segments. I'm even doubtful now that a Giulia could swing me, but I'll test that in a couple of years when I should be able to get a Veloce for sub $20k.

So just like my records, I'm going to do another cycle through the back catalogue...
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: lombardi on November 13, 2020, 11:20:27 AM
But it just never made me feel like i was in an anything but an ordinary modern hatchback , Ciao POObah , yep my thoughts when i had mine , she was nice BUT ?   The only Alfa i ever owned that after parting , never really missed her .
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on November 13, 2020, 01:00:59 PM
I did my best to love it, just didn't happen.

Probably a bit like why I would choose Selma Hayek over Claudia Schiffer every time (if only....)
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: bazzbazz on November 13, 2020, 08:25:28 PM
But it just never made me feel like i was in an anything but an ordinary modern hatchback. 

Hang on a minute . . . . . you WERE driving it in "D" mode . . . . .weren't you?  ???
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on November 13, 2020, 10:45:30 PM
For a bit, though I was limited in having the salesman in the car too. I had no issue with the way it drove, just everything else was unremarkable.
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: Craig_m67 on November 14, 2020, 01:12:39 PM
For a bit, though I was limited in having the salesman in the car too. I had no issue with the way it drove, just everything else was unremarkable.

Thatís why you want an early car with all the toys.  It has the panoramic roof, fulll Bose stereo and fancy ďcanolliĒ seats.  It is special, even as a daily.  I understand looking back fondly on a 156, believe me... but the GQV trumps it in so many ways itís not funny.

That said, I want a Stelvio 🙂
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on November 14, 2020, 02:19:20 PM
Fundamentally it really just emphasised to me that I'm simply not a hatchback kinda guy.*

Same reason I could never bring myself to buy a 147 (not even in GTA spec). But a 156 GTA? I'd get one in a heartbeat if there was one in reasonable nick, at a reasonable price, here in WA.

I also figured the money I spent on the Giulietta would be taking me a step further away from getting my dream Alfa - a manual 75 V6.

There is currently a Series 2 75 here for sale in mint condition for a similar price - except that it's white, and the S2 has the body-coloured side moulding with no boot spoiler, so not my ideal colour/trim combo (preference is S1, red with black moulding or all black).

And it would need to do daily driver duties (non negotiable with the missus - any addition must be balanced by a subtraction).  So I'd have to ask myself a serious question, in good nick, could a 30yo 75 handle freeway peak hour traffic five days a week without costing an arm and leg in maintenance? (That's another non-negotiable with the war office. She was happy for me to buy the Giulietta on the basis that it was almost new and wouldn't cost me +$2k every time it goes into the workshop like the trend for my 156 these days)


*My 116 GTV doesn't count - its really an old school coupe.

Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: Beatle on November 20, 2020, 08:27:57 PM
In the end I knew I'd just end up pining for the quintessentially Italian red leather interior

So, you have a fetish for interiors that resemble a 1930s Bordello?  ???

 ;D ;D ;D
......for those who can remember the interior of a 1930's Italian bordello..... ;)
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: bazzbazz on November 20, 2020, 09:24:44 PM
How fricken old do you think I am?  ::)
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on December 07, 2020, 08:45:22 PM
Just to close out my story re the QV I was briefly considering buying.

I ended up mentioning the car to a colleague who wanted to upgrade to something more interesting than her dull standard Mk5 Golf, and who has always liked the look of the Giulietta. She took it for a test drive and while she liked its road manners/performance, she couldn't see out the back very well (she's pretty short) and couldn't live with its comparatively crude bluetooth/in-car tech. (Both things I couldn't care less about - but no point paying for something you know will drive you crazy).

She has instead now bought the last hurrah version of the VW Scirocco R (a 2017 "Wolfsburg" special with almost no mileage on it). I went with her to check it out. As much as I normally dislike veedubs, I have to be honest and say it is the first one I'd be happy to own. It did cost "a lot" more than the QV but it looks fantastic inside and out (nothing like another anonymous Golf) - with real presence and style. Plus it goes like absolute stink and makes a pretty good noise too.  Really don't understand why VW stopped making it.

Meanwhile, my 156 has had its lacquer-scarred bonnet repainted and it is now near the top of my "most loved" things again. Normally the weekend is reserved for the GTV, but with its shiny new face, I just couldn't get out of the 156.

So I reckon I'll hang on at least until depreciation brings a Giulia Veloce into my price range ...

(side note - my colleague didn't complain about the poor rear visibility in the Scirocco - which is even worse than in the QV...)
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: Craig_m67 on December 08, 2020, 10:17:08 PM
$5./ Bluetooth USB dongle in the aux-in port on the Giulietta solves all streaming issues. 
Bose stereo is seriously good at 11


156 Sportwagon retro fitted with a 1750QV would be a nice mix
Title: Re: simple Giulietta QV query
Post by: poohbah on December 09, 2020, 01:15:39 PM
yep, no doubt Craig.

Personally I also preferred the interior in the Scirocco too - Recaro seats are pretty swish, and the matching "bucket-style" seats in the rear made me feel like i was sitting in one of those slinky cars driven by the SHADO pilots from UFO ... (the Gerry Anderson TV series).

Bottom pic is most like what I mean. Apparently the girl is Benedict Cumberbatch's mum!