Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Hi All,

With some more time available thanks to the COVID19 pandemic I thought I would share the story of my 1982 GTV that I purchased in April last year, what I know of it's history, the work I've had done so far and my future plans for it. I'm also hoping others on the forum can fill some gaps in it's history.

You'll note I termed this a "renovation" as it is most definitely not a "restoration". The car has had an interesting history and more will be revealed in future posts and photos.

So my GTV has chassis number ZAR 11637003015219 and according to Centro Documentazione Museo Alfa Romeo this corresponds to:

Alfa Romeo Alfetta GTV 2.0 RHD
Production date: 1981, June 22nd
Delivery date: 1981, June 25th
Market destination: Australia
Exterior color: Grigio nube metallizzato
Interior: Velluto beige rigato

This aligns with the compliance date of January 1982 as per the compliance plate. Now grigio nubea is a nice shade of metallic grey and I guess would have looked something similar to the image below. Not sure about matching it to a biege velour interior though, but it was the early 1980's!

When I came across my GTV I was licking my wounds following a near disastrous experience purchasing a 1974 GTV 2000 in need of restoration from an elderly owner in Adelaide. He'd owned the car since 1990 and had a folder full of receipts. The only problem was that upon stripping the seats and carpet I uncovered I'd actually bought the front half of a GTV 2000 mated to the back half of a 1750! Caveat emptor as they say but I managed to negotiate an agreeable settlement and moved the car on with full disclosure provided.

So I promised myself the next Alfa I bought would have to be in pretty good shape body-wise as well as some verifiable history, and that's when I spied my GTV for sale stating it had received a full bare metal restoration and respray by the best in the business and mechanically sound with a twin spark conversion also by one of the best.

Turns out my GTV was actually acquired from a private collection in early 2018, having sat idle for a number of years after a full body restoration by Rankins Panels that also involved fitting a full roll cage for racing duties. This was followed by a twin spark conversion and racing suspension fitout by Monza Motors. Mick Aarons tells me he remembers the car being in the workshop circa 2005/06 and probably has photos on a flash drive somewhere. Hugh Harrison also vouched for the cars history and after seeing it in the flesh it was mine.

The GTV certainly ticked all my boxes with a near perfect body and paint, plus the added bonus of Zender front bumper, rear bumper and side skirts. Clearly this car had not seen much track time! The twin spark conversion, complete with the 4.1 LSD transaxle, was apparently one of the earlier one's completed by Monza Motors.

What I do know and am prepared to share about the owner who commissioned this work is that his name is Damian and he worked in healthcare. Unfortunately he wasn't able to get the GTV to the track very often. If he's reading this I wish him well and hope he enjoys seeing the GTV again.

To clear the front distributor on the twin spark a modified Alfa 33 radiator is positioned below a full length customised top panel. I'm guessing that panel may also help stiffen the car's front end as what seems like a decent size square tube runs the width of the car and provides top mounts for the radiator.

The interior also got the full race car treatment with roll cage, racing seat and harness for the driver, no back seat and only the top half of the dash. All other interior appointments had been stripped in it's transformation for road/track duties. Some weight saving changes were also made via a fibreglass rear hatch and 15x7 three piece Australian made Simmons B45 rims fitted with Bridgestone Potenza RE530S 225/50 semi-slick tyres with plenty of tread.

An interesting fact about the tyres that came with the GTV is that the DOT code ends with the digits "167". This denotes the manufacture date of the tyres was the 16th week of 2007 and provides another proof point of the authenticity of the conversion being undertaken in the mid 2000's by Monza Motors as per Hugh's and Mick's recollection.

Other changes made by Monza Motors with track duties in mind include the popular Volvo 4-pot front brake conversion, a racing spec clutch, Koni yellow shock absorbers all round, 28mm torsion bars and matching lowered rear springs. The GTV has a purposeful stance on the road however, there's only about 8cm ground clearance under the centre muffler and the front engine pipe has also been ground down in one spot. Sure looks good though with the fat 225 tyres!

With no intention to go racing I had a difficult choice to make. Do I keep the GTV's track orientation or bring it back to more road-like duties with niceties like a full interior with sound deadening?

Surely there must be a way to "Pretty up" the engine on these cars like people do on the more modern V6 Alfa engines in the 147/156/GT range.

I find it always a bit of a let down to see such stunning examples with brilliant interior and exterior, and then you open up the bonnet . . . . . .  :-[

Bazzbazz there sure are ways to pretty then up but it takes time and money as always. I believe this car was built with a focus of track time so considering pretty doesn't win, Money was spent elsewhere.

Anth73. I guess to answer your question..
what do you want?
If you're happy with it then leave it. Maybe even take it further within reason of your needs.
I'm guessing that you were happy to buy it in it's current form (and a nice form in my books) but if you want to take it back to Concorse original you have a ling battle ahead. If you want to drive it and enjoy it then keep it as it is. Enjoy it. And don't worry about the others that disagree

What a beauty Anth, yours is the 197th chassis after mine, and arrived in Australia about a month later.

Mine was originally  'metallic cloud grey, with "beige rigato" velvet interiors' according to Marco Fazio at CentroDocumentazione.

Wish mine was in as good condition as yours - one day...

Hi Anth
A very nice looking Alfetta GTV you have there and your decision not to race the car, suggests that you intend to remove the roll bar and strip and fit new interior, back to 1981 specification or later recaro interior. This approach will have the added benefit of carrying rear seat passengers (numerous posts on this forum covering interior upgrades/restorations). With regards to improving the look of engine bay, I suppose it is a matter of individual tastes and how much you a prepared to spend. A simple wrinkle black finish on cam covers could be all that is required to give it some bling. For ideas, search the internet (twin spark engine bays images) will provide numerous examples. 

Anth, if you feel you want to o down that road (as per bonno's suggestion) - some inspiration:

www.facebook.com/alfettagtantonio/videos/276480540039854/?t=1 (http://www.facebook.com/alfettagtantonio/videos/276480540039854/?t=1)

Quote from: Anth73 on May 08, 2020, 05:04:32 PM
With no intention to go racing I had a difficult choice to make. Do I keep the GTV's track orientation or bring it back to more road-like duties with niceties like a full interior with sound deadening?

Great to see my GTV has sparked some interest! You may have missed that I said that I "had" a difficult choice to make regarding the future of my GTV. This was in May/June last year. After consultation with Hugh Harrison at Monza Motors I decided a renovation was in order to bring it back to a more streetable guise and make a few other improvements along the way. I wasn't interested in bringing it back to concourse standard as she won't be a garage queen.

So a plan was hatched to remove the roll cage and fit a Recaro interior from the latter series GTV6 as the first phase of my GTV renovation. The team at Monza Motors cutout the roll cage with meticulous care. It was a shame to see it go in one way, but it created a beautiful blank interior canvass to work with.

Here's a few photos of the roll cage prior to it's removal.

And a few more roll cage p0rn shots...

Stripping out the roll cage took a few weeks from memory in between other jobs. It also revealed that I would need a new dash as the front corners below the windscreen had been cut out to accommodate the bars running along the A-pillar and down to the floor. There was also some missing trim fittings along the back windows that needed to be addressed.

Ah, memories!

We did our own "Singer" inspired renovation back in 2015/2016 for our yellow 3.2lt GTV6 after retiring it from 20 years of track duties.

Full standard interior back in with an alcantara-type head lining. Sound deadening is a must!   Also modernised it with a nine inch Alpine screen and different gauges.  Kept most of the hot bits and had it engineered to comply with the historic M plates.

Hugh and the team did most of the work.  The car's at Hugh's now, so have a look!

For your seats, how about 4C seats?  A guy from Sydney is selling his seats.

One of the under bonnet iterations of a previous GTV... Was an '85 so no issues with clearance on the front dizzy. Bonnet requires some work in two places I remember.

Quote from: Victor Lee on May 09, 2020, 02:24:46 PM
Ah, memories!

We did our own "Singer" inspired renovation back in 2015/2016 for our yellow 3.2lt GTV6 after retiring it from 20 years of track duties.

Full standard interior back in with an alcantara-type head lining. Sound deadening is a must!   Also modernised it with a nine inch Alpine screen and different gauges.  Kept most of the hot bits and had it engineered to comply with the historic M plates.

Hugh and the team did most of the work.  The car's at Hugh's now, so have a look!

For your seats, how about 4C seats?  A guy from Sydney is selling his seats.

I've seen your yellow GTV6 and it's very impressive. A number of ideas for me to consider also like LED lighting to replace the woeful standard instrument lights. Your instrument gauges are also first class!

I did look into different seat options but lots of discussion about sizing issues that led me to grab a pair of Recaro's that Hugh had. In time I may get them reupholstered in a tan/black leather combo like was fitted to some 147/156 GTA's. Apparently even seats from a 147 and 156 are too wide. Those 4C seats look great, unsure if they would fit.

Thanks Sportiva, if I'd know that I may have gone for 147 GTA front seats and had the rear trimmed to match. Though the Recaro GTV6 seats are iconic the cushioning is very much past it's used by date and the fabric has the typical green fade.

Hi Anth
Find attached links to previous posts on the forum that cover LED instrumentation and recaro interior options.
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=18295.0
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=16802.0

Concur with Sportiva - 156 seats do fit but require some rail modifications/adaptor plate. I fitted them (same ones as Sportiva's) in my old 83 GTV without any real issues and loved the fact it came with an arm rest and extra storage space.

The seats now live on in my 75.

Also, it is very easy to install LED lights. Next time you see my car I can show you. I have them fitted everywhere (interior, exterior and headlights).

Quote from: bonno on May 10, 2020, 05:53:10 PM
Hi Anth
Find attached links to previous posts on the forum that cover LED instrumentation and recaro interior options.
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=18295.0
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=16802.0

Thanks...have bookmarked both threads!

With the roll cage and dash removed the team at Monza Motors were able to smooth out the roll cage attachment plates and give those spots a lick of primer. Perhaps the extra sheetmetal in these spots may help stiffen the chassis a tad.

It was a messy job but credit to the guys for doing such a great job of it!

Finally after many weeks it was time to start preparing the interior shell for a resumption of road driving duties through an initial application of Car Builders Stage 1 thermal insulation layer and sound deadener to hopefully lower interior temperatures a little and quell some road noise compared to when it was a bare shell. I was planning to do the job myself but was unwell with flu for a few weeks at the time, so asked Hugh to do it fo rme so we could keep the project moving along.

Despite it being a pretty easy job it was somewhat fiddlely where cutting was required and the application roller got a thorough workout getting the insulation sheets to adhere to the profile of the floor, front bulkhead, rear bulkhead and roof.

Next step was to apply Car Builders Stage 2 Accoustic Liner to all the previously covered interior surfaces. This provided additional noise and thermal insulation and acts as an underlay for the carpet and roof liner. Once again not a particularly hard job but somewhat fiddlely. On a side note hats off to Car Builders as they made it super easy to order and had the products at Monza Motors in very quick time. I would certainly recommend the product to anyone contemplating a refresh of the interior noise and thermal insulation.

Continuing on the Car Builders theme, I also purchased two of their Door Restore Kits to provide some factory equivalent weatherproofing of the doors. Well that's what the marketing literature says anyway. From the photos it certainly looks like the stuff you find fitted from the factory in most cars I've had the need to remove the door trims from.

With the dash and windscreen out it was time to sort out the headlining. I scoured the internet far and wide but could not find anything to suit a GTV sans sunroof. Did I mention I was very very very happy to not have a sunroof and the associated dramas with water leaks due to blocked drainage tubes?

After discussing options wiht Hugh we decided a custom headlining was the way to go using a guy Hugh was happy to recommend. I think you'll agree it turned out really well!

Looking great! The sound and heat material makes a huge difference to the drivability of the car. I did exactly that to a previous GTV but had to still drive the car to work at the same time, a distance of 125km each way. Needless to say, with the car stripped of carpet and underlay I needed noise cancelling headphones and a cushion to rest my leg against in case I touched the tunnel which became burning hot. Afterwards I was amazed at just how quiet and cool it became.

Like you said though, it is a time consuming job.

Car builders also offer a reflective material for lining the engine side of the firewall - given the engine will be out soon maybe worth a try? I am keen to install it when I pull the engine.

Hi Anth73,
I want to change the roof lining on my GTV, does the guy that supplied you the roof lining sell them as a kit. 
Regards

These guys sell the original headlining material by the metre;
https://www.okp.de/xtc2/75/Milano/70-Innenausstattung/Innenraum/Dachhimmel-Meterware-140cm-Schlangenbiss-Creme::20338.html

Further to GTVeloce post, they also supply headliner in kit form for the GTV/6 at the following link.
https://www.okp.de/xtc2/GTV/6/70-Interior/Interior/Headliner-Alfetta-GTV-tan-with-perforation::19167.html

Quote from: GTVeloce on May 15, 2020, 10:57:06 PM
Car builders also offer a reflective material for lining the engine side of the firewall - given the engine will be out soon maybe worth a try? I am keen to install it when I pull the engine.

Thanks Julian. I have my eye on their peel and stick heat shield (below) but would prefer a black insulation for the firewall if I can find it.

Quote from: GTVeloce on May 16, 2020, 07:52:26 AM
These guys sell the original headlining material by the metre;
https://www.okp.de/xtc2/75/Milano/70-Innenausstattung/Innenraum/Dachhimmel-Meterware-140cm-Schlangenbiss-Creme::20338.html

Unfortunately they were out of stock when I needed it but looks like a great option.

Hi , Who did you get locally to make the head lining.

Quote from: ALFAAA on May 17, 2020, 08:03:40 AM
Hi , Who did you get locally to make the head lining.

Speak with Hugh Harrison at Monza Motors as he arranged it for me.

I have the same car builders stuff installed and I also was time poor so I used an installer recommended by car builders iSorb who also installed a custom heat shield in the engine to replicate the original one which was destroyed and fell apart when removing to paint my engine bay see pictures

+

+

I have to say that a botched rear cross member has allowed my exhaust to be tucked up quite nicely.
Once the extractors are modified to meet the new tucked up exhaust, I haven't had any issues.
I'll try to dig out a picture

Sorry it's been a while since my last update. Have been readying the next phase of my project, which I'll get to in a few more posts. But back to the interior....

With all the Car Builders insulation in place I was fortunate to source a really nice original moulded carpet from Monza Motors. I gave it the once over with a hired Britex carpet cleaner and think it came up really nice considering it's probably nudging 35 years of age! No rips or worn through sections and the colouring is still pretty consistent.

I also mentioned in an earlier post that my dash had to be replaced due to some gaping 40mm or so sized holes where the rollcage  ran down along the A-pllar and behind the dash to the floor. So it was out with the old but I kept the '82 series split dash centre stack with it's orange and blue accents applied to the heater controls, whereas the later series cars have blue and green accents with more pronouced knobs. Otherwise they are functionally equivalent. The heater box still contains the evaporator, hopefully meaning I can reinstall air conditioning at some point. I know it isn't the greatest but any improvement to no A/C will be great as the car is a hot house on wheels anything above mid 20 degrees.

The Dash Doctor was called upon to retrim the replacement dashboard supplied by Monza Motors. It was a long wait, maybe eight weeks in total. The wait was worth it though as the dash came back looking very nice indeed! If only the usual glovebox alignment woes could be improved but no amount of fiddling seems to help.

Whilst the dash was getting reskinned the team at Monza Motors set about sourcing and fitting all the interior bits and pieces. This included the Recaro front and rear seats, matching door trims, seat belts, rear parcel shelf, interior lights, grab handles and numerous small trim pieces I would have had no idea about if I attempted this myself.

The trim pieces around the rear windows needed the locating rivets fitted, which was very fiddly to complete. We also found that my doors were original and designed for the earlier style screw-in door trims. The latter Recaro door trims use push-in plastic clips and this necessitated the doors being drilled in the precise locations to accept the plastic clips.  This level of attention to detail was very much appreciated and a testament to the high quality of workmanship displayed by Hugh and the team at Monza Motors.

The Recaro seats have the usual green tinge to them but otherwise are in great condition for their age. I've eyed off Bonno's leather trimmed upgrade and may consider doing something similar in the future.

Almost six months had passed since I left my GTV with Monza Motors to bring it back to a more suitable road going car and I must say I was thrilled with the outcome. There's a few minor things to finish off inside, such as LED lighting and a bluetooth receiver so I can wirelessly stream music. I also want to refresh the door seals and install an ignition relay. However they can wait whilst I contemplate the next phase of my renovation which is likely to feature the addition of a Busso soundtrack to the driving experience.

Here's the final before and after photos and the happy day on 29 October 2019 I picked up the GTV, freshly roadworthied and registered on new club plates (unfortunately they're not transferable so I wasn't able to use the club plates that were on the car when I bought it).

With the interior refurb complete it was finally time to enjoy driving the GTV in the nearby hills and it soon became apparent that she sat really, really low. The track biased suspension setup consists of 28mm torsion bars, matching rear springs and Koni yellow shock absorbers all round. Whilst this results in go-kart like handling it also brings a really harsh ride and leaves the exhaust and sump very vulnerable.

I had a friend measure the distance from wheel centre to the lip of the wheel arch on all four wheels on his standard GTV6. The front wheels measured 37cm and the rear wheel measured 32cm. My GTV measured 32cm and 28cm respectively, so a drop of 5cm at the front and 4cm at the rear compared to standard. Trying to get a standard 8m tape measure under the lowest point of the exhaust was also futile. A smaller tape measure highlighted that I had less than 8cm of ground clearance to play with...ouch!

With longevity of my GTV's undercarriage in mind I decided to take the car back to Monza Motors to have the front torsion bars adjusted to a more acceptable ride height with matching rear springs. We eventually settled on a 3cm lift with some settling and a slight drop at the front expected once a V6 appears in the engine bay.

She still looks sporty enough and handles well without the bone shaking, exhaust scraping ride. Before and after photos are below:

Another minor upgrade I made recently was to replace the interior and dashboard lights with LED's thanks to some helpful advice from Julian (AKA GTVeloce). This is a simple and must-do upgrade in my view as the results are outstanding. Whilst the 38 year old electronics mean't some playing around to get the LED properly orientated within the bulb holder, and the bulb holder properly orientated within the circuit board behind the gauges, it was largely plug and play.

For the main and supplementary gauges, as well as green coloured warning lights like the turn indicators I used green T5 LED bulbs, from memory you need 14 of these in total. For all other warning lights and for the heater control knob I used white T5 LEDs, from memory five were required. The interior lights on the B-pillar were fitted with a 36mm festoon LED. All up cost delivered was only $78!

The only caveat is that the light for the heater fan speed control knob can only be accessed by taking off the right side vent and I couldn't work out how to replace the two tiny lights at either end of the slide controls. Access seemed impossible without taking out the heater box. I didn't do the glovebox light as I don't have one currently fitted.

Here's a few pics of the dramatic improvement in lighting quality, with the first photo showing the LED equipped speedo shining brightly compared to the dim tacho still fitted with standard bulbs.

EDIT May 2023: Having finally got the car back on the road fitted with a 120A alternator, I found the alternator warning lamp would stay on for quite a while on startup, even with minimal electrical load. Once headlights were on and only one of my cooling fans running (drawing 13A), the motor would get a little rough. A check with the multimeter showed only 12.5V at idle and barely more than 11V under load. It looked like I would need to get the new alternator tested as something was causing the diodes to remain inactive and not charge. Then I stumbled across an AlfaBB post describing similar symptoms to mine in a 105 Series running LEDs in the dash for all lighting and warning lamps. The issue is that the alternator warning lamp forms part of the current sensing circuit and the alternator needs the resistance of the incandescent globe in your alternantor warning lamp to wake up the diodes and start charging properly. An LED doesn't have sufficient resistance, requiring a resistor to be fitted in parallel or do as I did, remove the LED, refit the old incandescent globe and presto...13.9V at idle!

Looking good! Car is coming along very nicely. One of these days we shall have to go for a drive together, preferably both with V6 power!

A few weeks since my last update and plans are now in place to add some busso harmonies to my GTV via replacement of the 75 TS currently in the car with a 75 3L V6 that Monza Motors had sitting in the back room. This engine was rescued by Hugh from a nearby wreckers yard quite some time ago and came without a timing belt, so fingers are crossed that it didn't suffer a broken timing belt at some point.

My previous encounter with a busso V6 was in the 2.5 24V guise teamed up with a 6-speed manual in the MY2002 156 I had about 15 years ago. Whilst lacking low down torque the engine was a screamer and loads of fun once the tacho was north of 4K. I deliberated long and hard over the 12V or 24V upgrade path but cost and the desire to sample the joys of a warm 12V 3L motor that everyone raves about won me over.

With the engine on the warehouse floor it makes sense to refresh all the gaskets, seals and guides, as well as fit a new timing belt and water pump. I also decided to bring it up to SZ specification with 10:1 pistons, a reground camshaft to the SZ profile, fit a 164 Bosch Motronic ECU with a SZ EPROM (thanks Festy!) and a CSC extractor exhaust sytem powdercoated to help with reducing heat transfer.  Fortunately the engine has the necessary block castings to fit the 60-2 (?) timing gear enabling me to upgrade from the Jetronic system.

A custom ECU was discussed with Hugh however at this time the additional expense to fit and tune it is beyond my budget, and probably not really necessary given the car's intended use. It's always something I can play with later down the road if budget permits and I want to explore more tuning of the engine via some head porting and the like.

Hugh gave me a tip about Wade Cams previously having a grind for the SZ and 164Q camshaft. As you may have read in one of my other threads, Wade Cams went out of business around 2014. However, Clive Cams now has the IP and is able to regrind my existing camshafts to the SZ spec at quite a considerable saving to buying a pair of new C&B cams or third party cams ground to the same profile.

Monza Motors have two engine builds to finalise before starting mine, so in the interim I'm doing some of the preparation work where possible. First up was giving some greasy looking valve covers and an intake plenum a through wash and degrease, then treating it to some black wrinkle paint. Never having done this before I must say there is a particular technique to getting the wrinkle finish reasonable even. Whilst I fudged my way through the valve covers reasonably well, the complex shape of the intake plenum was a real headache and resulted in my fisrt attempt being sanded back and redone to a more acceptable finish. Still not great but I'm happy with it.

I also decided to try my hand at sanding, buffing and metal polishing the Alfa Romeo script and cylinder numbers, pretty pleased with the result for a first timer!

More photos showing the priming, painting and finishing process I went through, plus the rather lumpy first attempt with the plenum. All parts were thoroughly washed with degreaser followed by dishwasing liquid and a hand brush before being thoroughly rinsed in warm water. They were then primed using high temperature resistant primer and sprayed with wrinkle paint. All spray paint was purchased from my local Supercheap Auto.

The wrinkle paint instructions are a little ambiguous and there's a lot of conflicting YouTube videos. It's also a challenge to get just the right level of coverage so that the paint will wrinkle but not too heavy that it runs, especially with the plenum. My first attempt was too heavy with noticeable paint run, so I sanded it back and started again to achieve a much better result. I found the best result was to apply three coats, with each coat made up of multiple passes in different directions. Waiting 5 minutes between coats was recommended on the spray can. After the final coat I allowed it to air dry for two hours before putting it in my weber barbecue on the lowest setting for an hour.

I also trawled Google images for various themes to polishing the valve covers and decided to just polish the Alfa Romeo script and cylinder numbers. I initially used a small dremel to remove the paint but you could also just easily use a very small block of wood or hard plastic with some 100 grit sandpaper.

I polished the lettering by hand by progressively using finer grades of sandpaper and finally some metal polish cream. It's takes patience but I'm very happy with the result.

And the finished items  ;D

Looking great! Well done.

Good job Anth. It sounds that you're a fair way into the V6 engine transplant and have her finished and on the road in no time.

Looks great, nice finish 😁

Quote from: HAZRDS on August 01, 2020, 09:39:49 PM
Looks great, nice finish 😁

Thanks HAZRDS. Who knew a Weber Q barbecue could be put to such good use in curing the wrinkle paint!

Quote from: bonno on August 01, 2020, 08:43:43 AM
Good job Anth. It sounds that you're a fair way into the V6 engine transplant and have her finished and on the road in no time.

Thanks Bonno. Monza haven't yet started to freshen up the engine yet and with the new stage 4 COVID restrictions they're unsure if they're allowed to stay open. Hopefully they can put all the parts I've bought to good use soon but do have one car ahead of mine.

In the interim I'm doing a few odd jobs with relays, cooling systems fans and ECU config.

My GTV currently runs what I'm told is a modified Alfa 33 radiator tucked under the custom radiator top panel. Why the different top panel? I'm guessing the original succumbed to rust as they often do in the 116 cars. My GTV is also devoid of the original rust-prone bottom radiator support panel. Guessing that also fell victim to rust.

When the car was stripped bare by Rankins Panels in 2006 they devised the current arrangement by using 1" square tube across the top to act as a radiator support. Plus I would think it would help stiffen the front end a bit too. Here's a couple of photos to illustrate the difference between a standard GTV6 radiator setup (first photo) and that on mine (second photo). My radiator actually sits slightly lower and closer to the engine.

Though I've never had any cooling issues with the current radiator I didn't feel comfortable not addressing cooling capacity with the V6 upgrade. I also want to recommission the A/C setup so the current cooling fan setup wouldn't suffice. My other considerations were radiator size, fitment, correct diameter inlet / outlet pipes and a new parallel flow A/C condenser.

I had a fellow Alfisto on the AlfaBB forum provide me the measurements of the EB Spares GTV6 aluminium radiator. With some minor tweaks to its top mount I worked out it can tuck in under my radiator top panel and the lower hose outlet should clear the lower subframe. I also ordered the widest and tallest aftermarket parallel flow condenser I could fit with the A/C hose fittings on the correct side from Australian Auto Air.

Next challenge was cooling fans and I spent hours looking at various SPAL fans and mounting options. My personal view is that a fan shroud should always be used to maximise the surface area the fans draw air through. Getting a custom shroud made plus the cost of two fairly powerful SPAL fans was making my eyes water. Plus the standard 65A alternator was going to struggle with any half decent dual fan setup. I found Sportiva's 120A alternator upgrade on this forum and promptly ordered a reconditioned 120A Bosch alternator from the U.S. which put out 70A at idle. So I now had enough juice to power a reasonable dual fan setup.

Looking further into fan options I wondered what fans were fitted to the 156 2.5 V6 I used to have? With a little research I found all 916 V6 cars including the GTA's were fitted with GATE dual fans with a steel shroud. Only the mounting points appear unique to each individual model. The fans are setup to run as a 25A low speed setup via a resistor per fan or 50A high speed setup. The circuit switching was controlled via the thermo switch in earlier 916 cars and by the ECU in latter cars. Most importantly the shroud and mounting points from a 916 GTV fit my GTV beautifully!

A quick search on eBay and I found a 916 GTV V6 setup with the factory wiring loom for $120 delivered. Hell for that price I bought a second set as spares.

With some handy work with a wire wheel and some enamel rattle can paint they turned up really nice. I cleaned up the fan motors with some metal polish for a little bling factor too. Given I've now got 70A to play with at idle I decided to simplify the wiring and bypass the sometimes troublesome resistors so the fans will run only at high speed now. Fellow AROCA member GTVeloce pointed me to Jaydee Auto Cables and they were able to supply factory grade waterproof cable plugs rated at 30A each. I also installed pinchweld from Clark Rubber around the edge of the shroud to protect it and the radiator cooling fins from damage.

Here's some photos showing the dual fans fitted to a GTA radiator, the cooling fans as delivered to me, my simplified wiring and the end result awaiting installation.

Next instalment...wiring up some relays for the cooling fans.

With the cooling fans finally sorted it was time to look at how I was going to power them. Reading through a few AlfaBB forum posts it was clear the factory fan wiring and relays were not going to be up to the job. Hence I decided to bypass the factory fan wiring except for the ignition enabled power source for the thermo switch for my new radiator.

I looked at a few smart cooling fan controllers however reliability seemed to be problematic and they cost several hundred dollars a pop. I initially bought a Davies Craig fan controller that was setup out of the box for dual fans with an override for the air conditioner. However I didn't want to use the dodgy thermal probe in the radiator fins. They stupidly use an NPT specification thread for their thermo switch adapter and despite trying three different adaptors they all failed to screw in properly due to incompatible NPT and BSA threads.

So I decided to learn more about relays, studied a few thermo fan wiring diagrams and then designed my own setup using standard 4 pin 12V relays and holders from Jaycar and suitable gauge wire.

I will install a 3-way Tridon TFS205 thermo switch in my new radiator as this allows fan 1 to come on at 87C and fan 2 to come on at 92C. The standard V6 thermo switch comes on at 85C so the TFS205 is a good match and allows me to stagger fan startup to avoid the alternator having to supply a lot of amps in one hit.

Each fan is powered by its own 30A fused relay with power sourced via 12G wire from the power terminal block on the passenger side that is supplied directly from the alternator. The trigger for each relay comes via the TFS205 thermo switch. A third non-fused relay is used for the AC trigger (the green coiled wire in the photo below). This is spliced into terminal 86 for the fan 2 relay. I went with this approach so that both fans would be used if the cooling system was above 87C and the AC compressor switches on, further taxing the cooling system and getting maximum airflow through both the condenser and radiator.

Power to the fans is supplied via 12G wire to the Jaydee sourced plugs and all earths are routed to the 8mm bolt normally used for the engine earth strap in the GTV6. I also sourced some PVC cable sheaths to give everything a tidy factory look. With all the wiring done I made a neat looking bracket to keep the relays and their holders locked together and fitting nicely between the washer bottle and the front valance panel.

In the photo below you can see the relays in their holders affixed to my custom bracket, the power terminal to the left of the relays, the earth bolt above the relays, the plugs for the dual cooling fans resting on the alternator and the two trigger wires for the fan relays resting near the existing thermo switch. The coiled green wire will connect to the AC compressor. I also included a really handy wire gauge reference chart I've used to help select the correct gauge wire.

Great work mate! It's coming along nicely.

With the COVID lockdown still delaying a start on my V6 conversion I've focussed on the little jobs I can do myself. Next on the to do list was getting my ECU configured correctly. You may recall that the 3L V6 going into my GTV was originally from an Alfa 75 running Jetronic.

My preferred upgrade path is to bring it up to SZ specification with 10:1 pistons and Motronic injection. After doing a lot of homework on the various chipsets and some great advice from Hugh Harrison and forum Motronic guru Festy, I settled on getting a standard 164 Bosch Motronic ECU and fitting it with the BF43 chipset as was fitted to the 75 Potenziata and SZ cars. This particular chipset is known as the dual personality chipset whereby grounding pin 11 enables the more aggressive SZ maps.

Thankfully it's a 5 minute job with the instructions provided Festy though you still need to be careful installing the new EPROM so that all the pins are pushed into the socket correctly. The instructions I followed are in the attached images.

Dealing with 30yo electronics requires a light touch, so I cannot emphasise enough how being careful pulling apart the two circuit boards and remember to wear an earth strap on your wrist or at least ground your hands on a metallic surface.

The original EPROM lifts out with some delicate upward force with a small screw driver. I had a few nervous moments getting all the pins lined up for the new EPROM however it went in without a hitch as you can see below with the chipset with the BF43 label on it.

Great work there.. loving the way you are doing so much of the work yourself and helping us here learn along the way. Wish I had the time and skill to do some of the work you are undertaking (Hats of to you buddy).

Hi Anth73,

Is it an EPROM or an E²PROM?  Re EPROM's (with the glass window), in addition to a bit of static protection, work on any EPROM should not be carried out under fluorescent lighting unless the EPROM label is foil backed.  Repeated exposure to UV will corrupt the memory.

Quote from: Colin Edwards on September 17, 2020, 02:34:40 PM
Is it an EPROM or an E²PROM?  Re EPROM's (with the glass window), in addition to a bit of static protection, work on any EPROM should not be carried out under fluorescent lighting unless the EPROM label is foil backed.  Repeated exposure to UV will corrupt the memory.

The original memory ICs are EPROMs in the Motronic ML 4.1, with a metallic film sticker covering the die window.
The replacement IC that was installed is a flash type, so is pretty hardy.

28CXXX series in lieu of 27CXXX series?

The original EPROM used in the ML4.1 was an Intel B57604, which is a Bosch custom part number for an Intel D27256-200. Almost all the ICs in the ML4.1 have custom Bosch part numbers, which makes reverse engineering a whole lot of fun :(
By the time the 3.0 164 was released they might have switched to using 27C256 though.
The replacement is an SST 27SF512.

Sorry it's been a while between updates. You know the drill...work commitments, lack of time, etc. But I've also reached the point of not being able to do much more myself and waiting patiently for COVID restrictions to lift. Also, there's been another GTV6 engine conversion being done by Monza Motors to complete ahead of mine. I won't be a spoiler other than to say it's a rip snorter and well worth the time and expense. Just click on over to gtvsix86's thread for all the info.

The delay on my project has been fruitful. Scanning eBay and Gumtree every day finally yielded the equivalent of the holy grail in the form of a fully intact and functioning passenger side mirror.

With said mirror now secured I set about fixing up the wiring and installing the electric mirror switch I bought from fellow forum member GTVeloce. Being an '82 model the car was not wired from the factory for a passenger side mirror. However, somebody had previously tried to wire it in and made a bit of a mess of it with wires pulled from the back of the existing 6-pin plug below the centre console and a dodgy attempt to connect the ground wire for the mirror into an existing ground.

Thankfully there's quite a few articles online on the topic of wiring in a second mirror, so that was a pretty easy fix. I also decided to provide the ground via the existing bolt that secures the dash to the firewall, same as for the drivers side. Unfortunately the passenger mirror didn't come with the factory plugs, a couple of 2-pin plugs from Supercheap were an easy replacement.

With both mirrors temporarily connected I confirmed they were both working, however strangely rotating the mirror switch selector to the left actually results in the driver side mirror being adjusted and vice versa. I confirmed the mirror switch and plug wiring is correct against multiple images online. It's an easy fix to swap over the left and right control wires next time I'm playing with the wiring.

GTVeloce had also given me the black plastic conduits for the door jambs, I only need to procure the rubber seal where it clips into the door jamb to provide a watertight seal.

Next instalment should be once the car is finally at the Monza Motors workshop, which should be next week. Meanwhile here's a few pics of the wiring mess I started with, the corrected wiring in the 6-pin plug, the ground point under the dash and the mirror side wiring just prior to installing the two 2-pin plugs.

I might have a couple of the two pin plugs spare. I'll have a look. These are the ones that 'socket' into the door metal, yes?

Otherwise, great work as always! Bring on the V6!

Quote from: GTVeloce on December 12, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
I might have a couple of the two pin plugs spare. I'll have a look. These are the ones that 'socket' into the door metal, yes?

Otherwise, great work as always! Bring on the V6!

Thanks Julian. Yes they are the plugs that socket into the door. The mirror I bought didn't have them and neither does the wiring loom.

A couple of smaller odd jobs I finally managed to get to was replacing both door seals and refitting the centre console with the mirror switch and a new gear lever boot.

The 80's plastic of the centre console took some fiddling to line up correctly and accommodate the wiring for the electric mirror switch and cigarette lighter. I actually would like to replace the cigarette lighter with a dual USB socket but could not work out how to disassemble and remove the cigarette lighter. Anyone have any tips?

The new door seals with the velour backing went on easy enough, though I suggest using a rubber mallet instead of your hand to get it properly seated to save some pain. The doors are harder to close and the panel gaps are a little wider with the new seals. Hopefully they settle down with time.

I dropped off the last of my parts to Monza Motors and confirmed the GTV will be going into the workshop once opened in the first week of January.

I also popped into Rankins Panels and had a really nice chat with Paul Rankin about my GTV. He confirmed it was Damian Black's GTV and they treated it to a bare metal restoration about 15 years ago. Looking forward to getting on with the next phase of work in January!

To get the cigarette lighter you usually have to remove the light first. Squeeze the metal surrounding the light and the tabs can then pop out of the main housing. Then, unscrew the metal sheath. This will allow the unit to withdraw upwards and out (provided you have disconnected the wires of course!)

Well after many false dawns finally(!) the road to 3L GTV6 ecstasy starts this week with the removal of the existing twin spark motor. I've asked the team at Monza Motors to document the transplant with photos along the way. Not sure on timing to complete the work as it will also involve a tidy up of some body bits and pieces by Paul Rankin, who did the original bare metal restoration in the mid 2000's.

The full list of work being done is:
- 3L from an Alfa 75 with 10:1 pistons, C&B road max cams, new seals and water pump
- Bosch Motronic 4.1 ECU with 164Q map
- Ported and polished heads
- Polished intake runners
- EB Spares stainless steel exhaust with ceramic coated headers
- 164Q engine loom
- 164Q air flow meter
- 75 Potenziata spec Bosch injectors
- GTA 305mm twin piston front brakes
- New clutch
- Alfa 75 A/C with new parallel flow condenser
- EB Spares aluminium radiator
- Twin cooling fans from a 916 3L GTV V6
- Cleaned and POR-15 coated GTV6 fuel tank (doing this was better strength building than multiple gym sessions!)
- 120A Bosch alternator
- Car Builders firewall insulation
- New fibreglass bonnet
- Refreshed front and rear vents
- Passenger side door mirror

Look out for photo updates as we go!

Looking forward to it, it will be awesome.... I hope you don't hit any snags along the way like I have 

A milestone achieved today with the twin spark that has lived under my GTV's bonnet since 2005 removed and the engine mounts cut out ready for the 3L V6 mounts to go in their place. Next step is getting the car down to Rankins for engine bay paint.

Exciting news! I was just looking at my V6 today thinking I really need to get cracking on it soon and then this inspiration has come.

A setback today with the news that the V6 engine mounts that Monza Motors had planned to use were unfortunately buggered. They're trying to track down another donor car but they're pretty scarce. PM me if you know of a donor car.

In other news I confirmed Hugh has a 164 engine loom put aside for me, might even be off a Q car. So in that case it makes sense to use the 164Q EEPROM that Festy provided in place of the 75/SZ dual personality chip I had fitted to the 164 ECU....that would've been damn interesting to try out!

On the plus side I can use the 164 idle air control instead of the troublesome auxiliary air valve. I also scored a 164QV air flow meter from the US. This is the largest air flow meter Alfa fitted to the 12V V6, identical to the air flow meter on our 164Q Aussie spec cars and identified by part 0280203035.

Another puzzle I'm trying to sort out is if the CSC headers I bought from EB Spares fit with the standard starter motor. There are some threads on Alfabb that suggest a later smaller starter motor is required. Photos attached below, thoughts anyone?

With COVID travel restrictions eased last Friday I made the trek down to Monza Motors to deliver my POR-15 treated GTV6 fuel tank. It was great to see my GTV again after so long, this time with an empty engine bay finally! Hugh was still waiting on a GTV6 front end to arrive so they can scavenge the engine mounts off it for my car. I also was finally introduced to AR06124*001291, the 3.0 V6 from an Alfa 75 that's going into my GTV... provided we can work through the challenge of sourcing apporpriate high impedance injectors required by the Motronic ECU.

Given only a handful of Motronic spec RWD V6's were produced, designated by engine codes AR61501 (SZ/RZ) and AR61503 (75 Potenziata), the Bosch 0280150257 high impedance injectors fitted were discontinued in 2007 and very challenging to find either new old stock, used or refurbished. Using the low impedance injectors fitted to L-Jetronic GTV6s and 75s will eventually burn out the injector driver in your ECU. The Alfa 164 bosch injectors are not compatible as they are the modern o-ring type and won't fit the fuel rail nor inlet manifold on my 75 motor.

Scouring as many injector websites and spares places in Oz, USA and Europe has only turned up four of the Bosch inectors at around $300 - $500 a pop...ouch! So I have a dilemma, namely:

1. Go with a slightly higher flowing Bosch injector claimed to be compatible at around $800. It may require a tweak to fuel pressure to tame my air/fuel ratios (along with an adjustable fuel pressure regulator), or needing to go to a programmable ECU instead of the 164Q Motronic setup I had planned to use.

2. Try my luck on some DEFUS branded compatible injectors on Aliexpress with a 12 month warranty for around $200. Tempting but lots of bad news stories online about cheap chinese injectors.

3. Try my luck on a high impendance injector that can be made as a special order by fiveomotorsport in the US with a 3-year warranty for about $1,000. Would be best to grab a spare or two just in case a warranty return is needed.

4. Use some convertible clips to allow any o-ring style injector to mate with the barb style fuel rail but finding just the right height and flow rate injector will be a process and may still require a programmable ECU depending on flow rates. Seems like 200cc/min injectors are passe these days.

5. Ditch the Motronic altogether and go with a programmable ECU plus connectors, loom etc that can run locally sourced compatible low impedance injectors...like the standard Bosch versions on the Jetronic cars that are supposed to be good for up to 230hp.  I estimate this would be at least a $3K investment plus dyno time.

I need to think this over given I will be committing around $800 for the Bosch Motronic components and should also gather a spare ECU and AFM for some future proofing!

I went through similar hassles trying to find suitable high impedance hose barb injectors back when I was converting my nord to EFI using an L-Jet Spider manifold, and ended up just ditching the Spider fuel rail and making a new o-ring style rail. If the hose tail adapters had been an option at the time, I probably would have gone with them to save the hassle though.

The injector height shouldn't be too critical with those adapters because you can adjust the hose length to suit.
I think a good injector candidate might be the Bosch 0280150766 - 200cc/min @3 bar, cheap and common as they were used on the early 90s Ford/Mazda 4L v6.

I'd recommend not using low impedance injectors, there's a good reason they were abandoned in favour of high impedance injectors 35 years ago.

What would it take to adapt a 164 fuel rail to fit?

Quote from: festy on June 24, 2021, 08:33:44 AM
What would it take to adapt a 164 fuel rail to fit?

The fuel rail on the 75 V6 does a zig zag around the intake runners on both sides whereas the 164 fuel rail is straight. Hence adapting it will not be easy.

I did read on the forum of another person who tried the o-ring adaptors but even with the fuel rail barb hard up against the injector barb, the fuel rail still sat too high for the plenum to mount properly. Seems like they used injectors that were too tall. I did speak with EFI Hardware and they believed they would have a suitable o-ring injector height, but they only go down to 260cc/min which would require an adjustable fuel pressure regulator or a programmable ECU to work properly.

Whilst the injector troubles remain some good news, my motor has been stripped down and is off to the engine shop today for a thorough check and a little port and polish job. By the look of it my valves have not suffered a broken timing belt.

Thanks Anth, enjoying the story. Who is doing your engine work?

Quote from: Alfetta77 on June 24, 2021, 04:24:03 PM
Thanks Anth, enjoying the story. Who is doing your engine work?

Monza Motors is doing all the disassembley and reassembley work. Orger Engines (aka Original Engines Co) in Kilsyth are doing all the porting and polishing work on the heads, runners and inlet manifold, and will hone the cyclinder bores for my new 10:1 QV spec pistons.

Another early Friday morning visit to Monza Motors and the Busso symphony from this little red beast was, just as Jeremy Clarkson said, like having my soul licked by angels. I vividly remember first sighting "Il Mostro", the Monster, in my Wheels Magazine as a 16yo teenager. It still looks as weirdly odd but beautiful at the same time now as it did all those years ago!

I also had a good chat with Hugh and Mick, and am happy with the progress being made. The twin spark is out ready and waiting for it's new owner to collect it and hopefully it lives on under the bonnet of a 105 series in the not too distant future. Next to it are my V6 heads, valves and inlet runners going to Orger Engines to be cleaned, ported and polished using their state of the art machinery which looks quite impressive at https://orgerengines.com.au/

Hugh's attention to detail is coming to the fore as he will provide Orger my headers so they can precisely match my exhaust ports for size, as well as the inlet manifold matched to the inlet runners. At this time we believe we don't need to go crazy with upsizing the inlet runners and plenum throats as Hugh feels it will hurt low end torque and driveability.

The V6 block is on the engine stand and in Mick's safe hands. The old pistons and liners need to come out and then the block is off to Orger Engines, where the new liners and QV spec 10.1:1 pistons will find their new home, all nicely honed and playing nicely with one another.

We also had a lengthy discussion about my injector dilemma and reached a consenses. Given the cost differrential isn't too significant, the 164Q Bosch Motronic ECU, wiring loom and airflow meter approach is scrapped. In their place will be a Motec ECU, wiring loom and ancillaries from Melbourne Performance Centre. This way I can use the standard GTV6 injectors (low impedance I know Festy but they supposedly fire faster and they're readily available) and tweak fuel pressure if needed, as well as custom map the ECU to get the most from my higher compression and better breathing Busso.

And in what eventuated as a busy Alfa day we also resolved the engine mount issues by locating a donor Alfa 90 2.5V6. We'll call her Renata, as she will be reborn via her precious engine mounts that will live on in my GTV's engine bay, as well as a few other bits and pieces we'll likely need along the way.

Renata arrives on Thursday. Grazie Renata, you're making the ultimate sacrifice!

Great progress this week by Hugh and Mick to complete the disassembley of my V6 block and prepare the jig for the V6 engine mounts to be welded in place. There is something strangely exciting about seeing a bare crankshaft, it almost appears like a sculpture. The block, crankshaft and connecting rods will be sent to Orger Engines to be cleaned, checked and prepared for reassembly with my 10.1:1 pistons. We also agreed to use a 164 Motronic front pulley as it runs standard V-belts and has the 60-2 timing ring required for the timing pickup by the Motec ECU and have Orger Engines balance the entire front pulley, crankshaft and flywheel assembly as they are from the factory for each specific engine. Orger Engines also reported that my heads and valves are in good shape. Only one valve was less than ideal but that's an easy replacement. Likely turnaround time for the porting/polishing work is three weeks.

Hugh has also been progessing my Motec setup with Melbourne Performance Centre, discussing the crankshaft and camshaft timing pick-up points. I was keen to explore the option of coil-on-plug ignition rather than using a distributor. Seems like that poses lots of challenges sourcing the bits and pieces needed for it to be setup on the 12v motor. Fellow Alfisti and forum member Julian (GTVeloce) did mention "wasted spark" ignition as another option to eliminate the distributor, must read into that further and discuss with Hugh.

I also met Renata in the flesh, my Alfa 90 donor parts car. She's a little ragged and faded in places but her prized engine mounts, power steering, A/C compressor mount, A/C wiring, spare wheel, pedal box (TBC) and a few hard to source rubber grommets in the door jambs will find a loving home in my GTV. Her 2.5V6 will also be put to good use by Julian for his own GTV V6 conversion using a 164 V6 motor as his starting point.

Lastly I also ordered a  Brise  (https://brise.co.uk/Alfa-Romeo-75-V6-760909AXG.html)lightweight starter motor from the UK. It replaces the smaller starter motor fitted to SZ and 75 Potenziata cars (Bosch part no. 0 001 108 098) and should resolve any potential clearance issues with the CSC headers. Plus it's lighter, so it must be better!

Renata, my donor Alfa 90 parts car, gave up her precious engine mounts this week. It took a lot of delicate work by Mick and his angle grinder to relieve Renata of the three engine mounts. They will be aligned to the jig Monza Motors use and welded into my engine bay this week.

I also ordered a front doughnut cage and rally top extended arm ball joints from Richard Melvin at Chris Snowden Racing. The doughnut cage is cheap insurance in my view, whilst the new ball joints will help provide better turn in and address a known suspension geometry issue with lowered Alfettas. The rally spec provides a sealed GE17C replaceable bearing making them well suited to road use. I've had a few email and messenger conversations with Richard and cannot recommend him enough. He's been very helpful and also offered to provide me a base Motec map for my V6. Check out his website (https://alfettagtv6.co.uk/) for all the goodies he has available.

Planning for the Motec installation continues with attention turning to the various sensors needed and also trying to confirm a compatible coil on plug approach. From a few posts on Alfabb the 06B905115 series coil fitted to various Volkswagen group models throughout the early / mid 2000s is the right size for the 12v motor. With a bit more searching I found Bosch 0986221024 and NGK u5003 are equivalent and newly available. So I bit the bullet and purchased one of the NGK coils from Sparesbox to try...fingers crossed!

Nice progress.

Our cars are sharing some similar upgrades, like the Brise starter and CSR extended top ball joints.

My research also suggests VW/Audi COPs are a suitable choice, and probably what I'll choose in the future.

Keep the updates coming.  :)

Great work!

It was lovely to meet Renata on the weekend as I completed her organ donation. Those engine mounts looked pretty good - I'm jealous! As I am about the rest of your build. It's really coming together well.

great thread. thanks for sharing. look forward to seeing the progress.

Quote from: shiny_car on July 11, 2021, 08:15:42 PM
Nice progress.

Our cars are sharing some similar upgrades, like the Brise starter and CSR extended top ball joints.

My research also suggests VW/Audi COPs are a suitable choice, and probably what I'll choose in the future.

Keep the updates coming.  :)

Thanks Richard, I've been amazed at your own detailed project updates and the level of work you are taking on yourself. Thanks also for the pointer to the supplier of the tarox rear vented discs.

Quote from: pasey25 on July 12, 2021, 02:05:11 PM
great thread. thanks for sharing. look forward to seeing the progress.

Glad you're enjoying it. Was that your "Il Mostro" at Monza Motors Friday week ago? I'd give my first born for a ride in an SZ...just don't tell my daughter though!

Quote from: GTVeloce on July 12, 2021, 01:36:16 PM
Great work!

It was lovely to meet Renata on the weekend as I completed her organ donation. Those engine mounts looked pretty good - I'm jealous! As I am about the rest of your build. It's really coming together well.

Don't be jealous, you'll have a great build once you're completed with the satisfaction of doing almost all of it yourself. Plus in hindsight the 164 spec motor is a better basis for the conversion and any future mods down the track given Alfa improved several key elements of the busso architecture. Plus you'll have those damn sexy, torque enriching chrome intake runners!

Quote from: Anth73 on July 12, 2021, 08:37:36 PM
Glad you're enjoying it. Was that your "Il Mostro" at Monza Motors Friday week ago? I'd give my first born for a ride in an SZ...just don't tell my daughter though!

yes it was. I already have 2 daughters though, more than enough!

A lot of activity over the last month focussing on engine management, engine mounts and brake setup amongst the on-again, off-again COVID lockdowns.

Firstly let's discuss engine management and the decision taken to ditch the 1990's technology Motronic ECU and go with a fully programmable Motec M84 ECU. Taking the leap into a modern engine management setup opened up the prospect of also getting rid of all the high tension leads and distributor, replacing them with a modern coil on plug (COP) setup fired directly by the Motec ECU.

I trawled the internet forums for information about tried and tested setups. The few 12V COP conversions I was able to find used a Volkswagen / Audi COP. The drawbacks with this approach in my mind were:

1. Significant COP reliability concerns with the VAG units and their cost. VAG released many updates to the COP over the years. There are a few aftermarket options from the likes of Bosch and NGK to try as alternatives.

2. Cost is quite high for new units and I would be reluctant to use secondhand units given their reliability.

3. There is no way to attach the COP to the cam cover. They just slide into the spark plug cavity and rely on the tighness of the attachment to the spark plug to stay connected. This is far from ideal and still allows moisture to enter.

So my search continued and I came across a GTV6 COP conversion completed a few years ago by another tuning engine business. A few emails and friendly phone calls later and I had a box of six COPs and connectors being shipped to me with some helpful advice about their mounting. In quite a surprise, the COP units are those used in the locally made Toyota Camry 2.4 from the early to late 2000's. They're relatively cheap, reliable, readily available and fit the 12V motor's cam cover beautifully. You'll see from the photos below that the Toyota spec COP also has a rubber grommet that fits nicely around the spark plug cavity to minimise moisture entry and a mounting tab to allow the COP to be affixed to the cam cover. Factory units were made by Denso and there are several aftermarket options also from reputable brands like NGK and Bosch.

It's also recommended to use the BKR7ES spark plug in the NGK family instead of the usual BP7ES. What's the difference? The BKR7ES is an ISO standard spark plug with 16mm hex size and overal height from the seat to the top of the terminal of 50.5mm. The BP7ES is a JIS standard spark plug with 21mm hex size and overall height of 53mm. The slightly shorter ISO spark plug allows the COP to sit flush on the cam cover. The photo of the test fitting below is with presumably a standard GTV6 BP7ES spark plug. The BKR7ES version will allow the rubber grommet to sit flush on the cam cover.

I also ordered a distributor cover and bearing from AHM Motorsport in the UK. This is required to cover the distributor hole and keep the oil pump in place once the distributor is removed. Beautifully made but eye watering expensive.

Photos below are of the Toyota Camry spec COP, connector, test fitting on a 12V motor (left is the VAG COP, right is the Toyota COP) and the AHM dizzy cover and bearing.

Looking good Anthony! I just bought this for my V6 conversion;
https://www.catch.com.au/product/davies-craig-ewp-lcd-controller-kit-aluminium-electric-water-pump-115-l-min-7503194/?offer_id=37994203&ref=gmc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwsSrm72o8gIVmzArCh29cQLpEAQYASABEgLNAvD_BwE

I figured I need to buy a new water pump and thermostat so I'd give this a go. It offers many benefits which appeal. Might be worth a try? I think this controller is an old version but the difference in price between here and Davies Craig direct is about the same as the price of a new controller! So I might as well try this one and can buy an updated controller later if needed but I feel it should be fine as is.

Is there room to get a 21mm socket down the spark plug wells of a V6? It seems pretty tight but I haven't tried yet so maybe its ok. If not it could make servicing difficult...
Changing a Spark Plug:
Remove engine
Remove heads
Replace spark plugs
Assembly is a reversal of the above
;D

Now onto engine mounts...which had been the source of much anxiety until Renata, my donor Alfa 90 V6 sedan, entered my life. Fair to say it was love at first sight given her precious engine mounts would live on in the engine bay of my GTV. Come to think of it, do I refer to my car as a GTV6 once this post is complete?

Enough about semantics and back to the significant goal realised this week after more than two years of planning. My V6 engine mounts are in!

Using a special jig the mounts were carefully positioned and temporarily bolted in place. With a collective gasp I'm sure, a 12V busso V6 was then lowered into the engine bay and fitted to the mounts to confirm their positioning. The motor was then removed and the mounts welded into place and primed.

Whilst the engine bay is being prepared for painting by Rankins Restorations we're also going to test fit my aluminium radiator. From my measurements there is a small lip near the bottom radiator outlet that may need to be removed so best this is done before painting.

The guys at Monza Motors also need to test mount the 305mm GTA brembo front brakes so we can measure up the caliper spacing and confirm if I can get away with 16" wheels or not. My vented rear rotors and caliper spacers arrived from Chris Snowden Racing during the week to complete my brake setup.

Photos below show the jig used for positioning the engine mounts, the trial fit and the finished mounts ready for painting.

That's exciting progress!!  8)

A busy few weeks on the GTV renovation! I continued to evolve my front brake setup following a trial fit of the 916 series 305mm Brembo calipers and rotors. Whilst they comfortably fitted within a 16" diameter rim the caliper needed about 6mm of spacers to clear the rim face and the mounting points would have needed modifications to my uprights of the cutting, grinding and welding variety. As I want to get the car VASS certified at the end of this I decided a better solution was needed. If only I had read Julianb's posts on the alfagtv6.com site from last December as he went down the same path initially as me only to find the same issues:

"Brakes: front are 147 GTA series 2 Brembos (330mm) I thought I would go down the path of using 147 GTA 305mm discs, but these are a different arrangement to the Alfetta and mount from the outside. This loses a lot of wheel well space, so I bit the bullet and went with some Tarox 330mm floating discs."

Fellow forum member gtvsix86 pointed me to Tarox who sell several 6-pot bolt on big brake kits for the Alfa transxle cars, so I decided on a 298mm kit with grooved rotors. They're made to order and mine is currently enroute from Tarox Italy to Tarox UK and then to me. A test fit of gtvsix86's 310mm kit with a 16" diameter wheel passed....just!

BTW...I have two new 305mm front rotors going cheap if anyone is interested, just send me a PM. They were bought new from Italian Automotive Spares.

Photos below are of the Tarox 298mm brake kit I purchased, the test fitting of the 305mm GTA Brembo brakes, and the "oh-so-close" test fitting of the 16" rim over the Tarox 310mm brake setup.

We've also been getting busy in the body shop! After a 16-year hiatus my GTV is reunited with Paul Rankin to have the engine bay painted prior to fitting the V6. Whilst there and with a reasonably good lower radiator support panel available from Monza Motors, we thought it best to address the missing lower radiator panel in my car. Below are photos of the lower front panel provided by Monza Motors and the missing piece I needed that Paul Rankin cut, cleaned and test fitted to my GTV.

With a test fitting done next was the real work to strip it all back to bare metal and weld it into place.

Very happy with the end result and a nice before and after shot for comparison.

Next task on the list was welding closed all the unnecessary holes in the engine bay from the previous twin spark conversion. Hugh was able to pinpoint these from memory, who knows how many GTV6 engine bays he's seen to be able to play GTV6 engine bay bingo like that!

Did I mention there were a lot of holes to weld closed?

It was worth the effort being fastidious about preparing the engine bay for painting though. Next step was primer!

And then onto paint! Isn't it gorgeous!

Quote from: Anth73 on September 10, 2021, 06:24:00 PM
And then onto paint! Isn't it gorgeous!

yeah, but then you drive it and it gets dirty . . . . .  :'(

Wow! This is looking great! Both the brakes and the engine bay.

Nice progress! Engine bay looks great.

Tarox are amongst the few that offer anything 'off the shelf' (sic) for our cars.  As you discovered, Brembo's with the axial mounting points ('ears') can be tricky to fit; radial mount calipers (ie: from the 330mm versions) are ok with a bracket.  I've had good results with Tarox brake discs over the years for street cars, so I imagine you'll be pretty happy.

A short update this month as the COVID induced global supply chain crunch meant the 298mm Tarox big brake conversion kit I ordered from Gazella Racing UK in mid August took almost two months to be manufactured by Tarox Italy, sent to Tarox UK then to me. Despite the delay it was well worth the wait and it will be a shame to get brake dust on them!

Orger Engines have also finalised all the porting and polishing work on the heads. However they were still completing the balancing work on the crank, having bolted it all up complete with front pulley and flywheel. Hopefully the block, balanced crankshaft and heads are returned this week so Monza Motors can get stuck into the reassembly work.

Fellow forum member Julian (GTVeloce) has been kindly assisting me with my air conditioning specifications. We've agreed on a modified layout from the factory GTV6 setup to enable a cleaner installation and plan to install the hoses from/to the evaporator before the engine is fitted as this will be much easier done beforehand. Julian's dad worked in the AC trade and his knowledge in this area has been a blessing. Hopefully my AC setup proves much better than factory with a significantly enlarged condensor and modern components.

Lastly my GTV6 extractors and engine pipes originally purchased from EB Spares have come back from being ceramic coated. This is a must due to the substantial engine bay heat load problems experienced with the GTV6 engine bay, particularly with extractors, plus they look so damn sexy!

One question I'm trying to answer is if I'll need to have catalytic converters installed for the engineering (VASS) certificate. Though my GTV is an '82 model, the engine is from a 75 which did require catalytic converters to be fitted. I've checked VSB 8 and VSB 14 and it's inconclusive. I've also enquired with VicRoads but have yet to receive a response. Any thoughts from other AROCA members who have VASS certified their conversions e.g. fitting a 24 valve busso V6 into a GTV6?

Finally I'm happy to say that my motor has come back from Orger Engines in Kilsyth with a long list of work completed, namely:

• Ultrasonic cleaning
• Heads checked for thickness, straightness, hardness, threads and valve heights
• Valve seats CNC machined
• Valve guides honed and fitted
• Heads surfaced
• Heads ported and polished
• Ultrasonic cleaning of crankshaft and rods
• Crankshaft journals sized and finished
• Main and big end bearings fitted, checked and sized
• Full engine balance

Work is now underway at Monza Motors with all the engine reassembley and my reconditioned power steeering rack and pump also arrived today. So after a number of delays it's all hands on the tools from now and throughout January.

You may also recall me laboring over the cleaning, painting and polishing of my valve covers and plenum mid last year. In discussing options to securely fit the coil-on-plug ignition coils it looked more and more likely that I would need to redo this process due to the welding, drilling and thread tapping required to provide a mounting bar on each valve cover for each COP to be screwed into. I didn't really want to go there so have opted to revert to the usual distributor, coil and high tension leads approach, though it will be a locked distributor from a later GTV6 as my Motec ECU will handle all the ignition timing.

Look out for a "For Sale" ad for the AHM Motorsports distributor drive cover plate and the six COPs with connectors I purchased a few months ago.

Nice update.  Plenty happening there!

Hmm, I'm a long way off working out COPs for my 75, but I don't imagine it's too hard to secure them (depending on what model COP you use).  Press-fitting them could be unreliable I guess, but if they need to be fastened down, sure you could tap directly into the cover?  Seems a pity to sell those nice parts.

The cover is pretty thin. One approach I have seen in photos is to use small lengths of threaded bar with nylon locknuts at both ends. I wasn't keen on that approach. The alternative was to weld a mounting bar onto the valve cover but I'd already painted mine so that was scratched.

Here's a couple of pics of my freshly reconditioned power steering rack and pump. So looking forward to fat 225s all round without needing Arnie arms to park! 😀

Work has progressed really well with the engine reassembley over the last month. Crankshaft, rods and pistons are now all best of buddies in the engine block and my heads are now complete with Colombo & Bariani "road maximum" cams, reprofiled valves and new valve guides and seals. We did have a minor issue with the SZ / 75 Potenziata spec water pump supplied by EB Spares. It's actually a 164 pump body with a machined removable pulley as needed on the SZ and 75 Potenziata cars. The pulley didn't quite have enough machined off the back to align properly with the crank pulley. It's been a little trial and error pulling the water pump pulley off, machining it, refitting it and test fitting to get it just right but it will be on the car later today.

Hugh also mananged to source a 75 Potenziata crank pulley with the required three V-belt grooves so I can run power steering in addition to alternator and A/C compressor belts. Rare as hens teeth! This will be balanced to match the current 2-belt front pulley so we will retain the correct engine balance.

My tailshaft has also been overhauled with new doughnuts and a lovely front dougnut cage from Chris Snowden Racing. It is being sent away to be balanced as a complete unit. Next week the power steering rack will be fitted and then the engine goes in....yay!!!!

Nice photos of the C&B cams, heads and Carwood Brise competition starter motor.

Very happy with the paint and polish I completed on the valve covers! Nice photo of the 60-2 timing ring on the 75 Potenziata crank pulley and the SZ spec water pump with removable pulley. The polised doughnot cage does remind me of a pie tin :)

A bit late with my update as there's been a lot going on at home and work to keep me busy. There has also been a lot going on at a jam packed Monza Motors...my engine is finally in! It's a very tight squeeze with the extractors and the EB Spares engine mounts needed some adjustment to sit the engine just right as they are about 10mm taller than the factory originals. Judging by the gaps either side of the extractors I think Mick got the engine positioned perfectly!

The A/C and alternator mounting brackets also needed a tweak to get the belt alignment spot on. I'm thankful for the attention to detail that Mick and Hugh have applied to this critical phase of my project. This is also demonstrated by the beautifully fitted and finished GTV6 pedal box, bonnet catch and wiper motor. We decided to keep my GTV brake booster as we know it is in perfect working order and should work well with the upgradred Tarox brakes.

The focus over the next few weeks will remain within the engine bay to complete fitting out the plenum, fuel injectors, radiator and wiring loom. Happy days!

Photos of the pedal box, bonnet catch, brake booster and wiper motor.

Looking excellent!!!!!!

What motec are you running?

Are you going to convert the dizzy to a hall effect, so you can run sequential, or are you just going to run semi sequential?

Quote from: julianB on April 15, 2022, 05:54:33 PM
Looking excellent!!!!!!

What motec are you running?

Are you going to convert the dizzy to a hall effect, so you can run sequential, or are you just going to run semi sequential?

I believe it will be a Motec M84 with a timing pickup in the dizzy, stil sorting thorugh the final details with Hugh and MPC as COVID has caused a lot of stock issues.

Activities since my last update have been focussed mostly under the car thanks to a pair of lovely, big, beefy 298mm Tarox brakes with six(!) pot calipers up front and a pair of Chris Snowdon Racing vented rear discs courtesy of Richard Melvin. The shortened Alfa75 tailshaft was also fitted and then Hugh remembered that my original GTV gear selector rod won't clear the larger donuts in the GTV6 tailshaft. No wondering why Alfa Romeo were losing money in the 80's with so many parts variations across their very similar models!

As my GTV body shell is the earlier long torsion bar type, going to the isostatic shift rod creates a few well documented problems due to lack of clearance with the cross beam and the rear floorpan. Initial thoughts were to address this with the usual gearbox input shaft swap, floorpan modifications and grinding of the cross beam given complete isostatic setups are pretty easy to come by. However the prevailing opinion is to go with the non-isostatic setup as it does shift better compared to the isostatic setups once they're slightly worn. Just need to find a non-isostatic GTV6 gear selector rod...

We also fitted a little more bling in the engine bay via a custom polished stainless steel expansion tank that was part of a small batch organised on the Alfabb forum and a polished alloy GTV6 radiator.

More photos...why does the forum persist with the 1024kB limit???

Well done Sportiva!

If only everyone was as knowledgeable and amazing as you!

I read your post before you censored yourself.

"I would have a higher respect for you if worked on the car yourself." (Your words)

What a nasty thing to say to someone, not everybody has the ability/skill/facilities, for various reasons, to work on a car themselves.
Anthony is doing a fantastic job as project manager, sourcing all parts himself and doing his research, and being kind enough to document and share his journey for others to enjoy, and all you can do is criticise and cut him down.

You should be ashamed and embarrassed.

-Mick.

Now now children . . . . ."Don't make me come back there!" >:(

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: sportiva on April 27, 2022, 08:54:02 PM
Please don't blame Alfa Romeo for the chassis and parts variations, as they progressed forward with the changes from the early Alfetta chassis to the later 75 chassis. They had no idea in 1985 that you were going to convert in 2022 a gtv2lt to a v6 made out of all sorts of different parts from different models. You started with the wrong chassis then added parts that changed the very essence of the car.  I have edited this post and removed what I really thought.

Have you got any info on the difference between the gtv and gtv6 chassis? Did they change much across the years?

This build is epic! Keep up the great work.

Quote from: Mick A on April 28, 2022, 06:46:35 AM
Anthony is doing a fantastic job as project manager, sourcing all parts himself and doing his research, and being kind enough to document and share his journey for others to enjoy...

-Mick.

Thanks for your kind words Mick! It certainly has been a journey and I'm learning a lot along the way, doing what I can myself, forming great friendships with other Alfisti and enjoying the research and parts sourcing where required. Latest treasures are a rust free hatch in dry storage for 20+ years from Brisbane and an original GTV6 gear selector rod from the Netherlands!

Though having previously done some minor restoration myself I don't have the facilities at home now to undertake a project of this magnitude. To those that do I think it's great that you're able to and can contribute to the Alfa community in a positive and constructive way that keeps these wonderful cars on the road. I hope my little contribution here proves valuable and constructive to others.

Quote from: Alfatango on April 28, 2022, 02:02:25 PM
Have you got any info on the difference between the gtv and gtv6 chassis? Did they change much across the years?

This build is epic! Keep up the great work.

From what I've gathered the GTV6 chassis doesn't differ significantly from the "nuovo" GTV whereas the original chrome bumper GTVs differ more substantially in the front end. So far only the engine mount locations have needed to change on my build and I need the GTV6 gear selector rod to clear the larger tailsaft donuts. Also the boot floor differs on a GTV6 to accommodate the recessed battery instead of the under-floor fuel tank in the GTV. There was also a running change to the Alfa 75 chassis (short torsion bars) around September 1984 for both the GTV and GTV6.

Otherwise it's mainly been little things like the bonnet and bonnet catch, brake booster (though staying with my known good GTV example), gear selector rod, tailshaft donuts that have differered. I'm sure there are other differences in things like suspension setups, driveshafts, brakes etc but the chassis itself is very similar. When my conversion is complete the only tell-tale signs of it coming from GTV stock will be no sunroof (early GTV6's didn't have this either), no power windows and no battery recess in the boot. Yes it is not a factory original GTV6, it is not standard, but I'm okay with that as I've always wanted a hotted up GTV6....and a 105 series 2000 GTV but that will have to wait for a loooong time!

Thanks for the post above. Threads like this contribute to the knowledge out there as there a lot of Alfisti that have probably forgot more than we will ever know but it was never written down so people have to re learn it themselves.

I would like to build a 3.2 116 gtv from a bare shell one day but I don't have the space for a hoist or a rotisserie at the moment. It wouldn't stick to any originality as the interior would probably be a half cage, no carpets and a digital race dash. It would have a custom fuel cell and new boot floor made up. I have also noticed that the line between a race 116 and street registered 116 is probably a full cage, bucket seat with head supports and full slicks. A lot of the the other things like lexan windows, brakes and suspension seem to be state law dependent.

HI Sportiva

No need to ban or censor you... you are always one of the first to chime in and help people with your knowledge and expertise and we need people like you. However sometimes you may get your knickers in a twist and its better off not saying anything at all. I thought you also went a bit hard on another forum over on the AlfaBB when a Australian YouTuber was posting videos of his GTV6 3.0 build.   

Need to realize we are not all mechanics or engineers and some of us have to pay experts such as Mick to do the work. This helps out club sponsors to pay their wages and keeps them also enthusiastic with the brand as they are doing creative stuff instead of boring services all the time. Dumb people like myself then learn along the way by researching and project managing. Man oh Man the amount of dumb questions I have asked Julian sorry buddy  :( but this becomes sometimes exciting for us layman's as we are and feel part of the process. We find great people from all over Australia willing to help and from overseas. I myself have dealt with people from Greece, England, South Africa, Switzerland and USA.

We also get to help the next poor Alfa tragic save some hard earned cash as a lot of my mistakes Mick and the team have been able to assist Anthony and any future customers. I would like to have my car safe, reliable and engineered and there is no way a DYI person with no mechanical experience can achieve this with the major improvements we are making.

These cars are getting rarer and more expensive and unfortunately we cannot always source the correct year make and model before modifying we are stuck with what's available and what our budgets allow. Plus even if I had the know how, tools and the space to take on a massive build like this  I rather like to keep my marriage and have a relationship with my kids because working full time and doing this as a side project it would take 20yrs. Just my 2 cents.

Anthony keep on posting love the content!

Sportiva - I have no idea what has happened previously but you have a lot of great knowledge that we are grateful for being shared. I don't think anyone is criticising Alfa Romeo in a negative way especially when they spending 10s of thousands on the build of an Alfa Romeo. We don't all have decades of experiences building these cars to concourse standards so there will always be amateurish decisions being made. But we learn and than apply it on the next build. I didn't know what a torsion bar was till after I bought the 116 and 75. To be honest still don't but I will get the mechanic to install some fatter ones. I have learned what I can realistically achieve on a project and do that work myself and hand over the rest to the people that know what they are doing. It's all good as we are all here for the same thing.

"That's IT! I'm turning this car around!   >:(

Apologies for the time lag since my last post. COVID and influenza has hit the team and myself at Monza Motors, resulting in work on my GTV6 on hold for the last month. It's frustrating and disappointing when factors like this are out of your control. Reading through my blog highlights how long the V6 conversion has been going and I'm so looking forward to progressing with the build ASAP.

During the lull I've managed a couple of positives. Firstly a pair of GTV6 Recaro front seats came up for sale that had been in storage for 15+ years. Consequently the velour is in fantastic condition compared to my current seats and are without the typical sun bleached green tinge.

My GTV6 gear selector rod arrived from the Netherlands. Also coming are the GTV6 fuel tank mounting straps and a pair of power window regulators. Note that there are two different model regulators, based on old style door as per my 1982 build which originally had the screw mounted door cards and latter doors with the Recaro style door cards mounted with push in plastic clips.

I've also sourced high impedance 255cc hose style Bosch injectors from FiveO Motorsport. Based on several online calculators and an estimated 230hp power output I needed a minimum of 245cc flow rate injectors. Options are limited in the old hose type style used by the GTV6 so FiveO Motorsport modified a set of Bosch 0280150947  O-ring style high impedance injectors for my needs.

Hoping the guys at Monza Motors are able to resume work next week with the aim to complete all hoist related work e.g. tailshaft, gear selector shaft, fuel tank / lines and exhaust system fitting.

A lot of progress this month has brought a big smile back on my face. Thanks to FiveO Motorsport I have my custom Bosch 0280150947 injectors now ready for installation. Melbourne Performance Centre also supplied the Motec M84 ECU and wiring loom, ready for Monza Motors to layout and measure all the wire lengths so we end up with a tidy engine bay.

The multinational flavour of my build continues with all the GTV6 fuel tank fittings (straps, inlet and outlet banjo fittings, vapour canister, filler hose and neck) and bent LS watts arm sourced from the Netherlands. We realised that my GTV fuel filler neck with bayonet style cap was not going to work with the GTV6 fuel tank and the required GTV6 part used a screw-in cap. Luckily I had bought a good used one with key from Switzerland almost two years ago as I thought it would come in handy...which it certainly has given the post COVID prices now being asked for GTV6 fuel caps. And in another "why did Alfa do that" moment, my floor pan had the fittings for the GTV6 fuel tank straps but not the holes in the floor for the two banjo fittings for the fuel lines. Monza  Motors were able to create a template from another GTV6 and replicate these two holes in my floorpan.

Also completed was the installation of the Chris Snowden Racing vented rear disc rotors and spacers for my existing calipers, the shortened and balanced 75 tailsaft is now in place complete with Chris Snowden Racing front doughnut cage, new clutch was installed replacing the rather heavy racing "button" clutch that was a real pain to drive smoothly, and the clutch slave cylinder was also overhauled.

Next on the to-do list is to fitout the fuel lines and install the GTV6 bent LHS watts arm so my exhaust clears. Then we'll install the factory underbody exhaust heat shield and then my stainless steel exhaust goes on. We'll also overhaul the centre watts link and tidy up the remainder of the rear suspension to close out all the hoist work.

Below are photos of the Motec setup and custom Bosch injectors, plus the shortened Alfa 75 tailshaft.

Photos of the fuel tank components, required holes in my floorpan to clear the fuel line banjo fittings and the CSR vented rear discs with caliper spacers.

Looking good!  'Almost' inspiring me to get back into the garage to restart on mine, lol.  ;)

More 'drooly' pictures! Looking good and progressing well.

Both my 83 GTV's and my current 86 GTV have had screw-on fuel caps, not bayonet. Maybe that was something that changed with the (I think mid) 83 update? Maybe the early (81 and 82) GTV6's had bayonet?

You didn't want to keep the centre exhaust? I quite like the central exhaust although maybe its the fuel lines that dictate the exhaust route not the battery which I aways assumed?

Quote from: GTVeloce on June 26, 2022, 02:04:01 PM
You didn't want to keep the centre exhaust? I quite like the central exhaust although maybe its the fuel lines that dictate the exhaust route not the battery which I aways assumed?

I had the option of retaining a centre mount muffler but given my Zender rear bumper has the cutout for the standard GTV6 rear muffler tip I went that way.

That makes sense. I forgot you had the Zender bumper.

I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing this thing soon!

Just a thought:  Speak to Paul Rankin and ask the cost to fill in the existing exhaust hole and to mould a new centre hole.
I did it to mine a few years back...not exactly centre but close!

Quote from: Victor Lee on July 05, 2022, 10:30:41 AM
Just a thought:  Speak to Paul Rankin and ask the cost to fill in the existing exhaust hole and to mould a new centre hole.
I did it to mine a few years back...not exactly centre but close!

Thanks for the tip Victor. Already have a CSC GTV6 stainless steel rear muffler waiting since mid 2020 to go on.  :D

Nice looking exhaust!   At least you'll get a spare wheel well!   
I don't have one as my BIG rear muffler is where the spare wheel would have been.

Keep up the great work.

We had a pretty ambitious set of goals to tick off this month and I'm glad to report that Hugh and Mick at Monza Motors did an excellent job despite several hurdles of getting them mostly done. We aimed to complete all the hoist related work, namely:

- installing the GTV6 fuel tank I treated with POR-15 plus all the bolt on components that arrived from the Netherlands....tick!
- fitting out the fuel lines...tick!
- fitting the GTV6 gear selector rod...tick!
- fitting the GTV6 bent LHS watts arm...tick!
- overhauling the watts linkage and repainting the rear de dion, springs and watts arms...tick!
- installing the factory underbody exhaust heat shield and then my stainless steel exhaust...no deal :(
- mounting my repainted Borbet wheels complete with 225/50r16 tyres ...no deal :(

Whilst the front engine pipes were able to snake beautifully down the bell housing and below the car, the middle section wasn't quite providing sufficient clearance near the crossbeam where the torsion bars mount and for the clutch fluid line, which is shorter and joins to a rubber hose with the Alfa 75 TS LSD transaxle compared to the GTV6 owing to the push versus pull clutch arrangement. Also, the rear section wouldn't line up correctly at the flanges with the middle section so the rear muffler ended up oriented too far towards the middle of the car. EB Spares assures me they've had no reported misalignment issues with this particular batch so we've decided to get a local exhaust shop to cut and reweld the flanges to try improve the alignment and clearance.

Whilst the front engine pipes were able to snake beautifully down the bell housing and below the car, the middle section wasn't quite providing sufficient clearance near the crossbeam where the torsion bars mount and for the clutch fluid line, which is shorter and joins to a rubber hose with the Alfa 75 TS LSD transaxle compared to the GTV6 owing to the push versus pull clutch arrangement. Also, the rear section wouldn't line up correctly at the flanges with the middle section so the rear muffler ended up oriented too far towards the middle of the car. EB Spares assures me they've had no reported misalignment issues with this particular batch so we've decided to get a local exhaust shop to cut and reweld the flanges to try improve the alignment and clearance.

The issue with the Borbets was of my own making. Based on various tyre size calculators I understand that the standard 15x6 ET45 195/60r15 wheel/tyre combo produce an overall diameter of 615mm. A few other GTV6 owners have reported being able to fit 17x8 ET35 225/45R17 wheel/tyre combo all round with an overall diameter of 635mm. Hence I thought my 16x7.5 ET30 225/50R16 wheel tyre combo with 632mm overall diameter should be able to squeeze on the front instead of the usual 205/50R16. Rears were no problem but the front...no chance! This is where rim widths, true tyre widths on the rim and offsets come into play. The online calculators predicted I should end up with my tyre in the same spot relative to the hub centreline as a 17x8 ET35 225/45R17 setup...obviously not unless I've missed something else related to setup or alignment.

So back I go to 205/50R16 all round as I prefer not to run a staggered setup and the other benefit is that 225/50R16's would not fit in the spare wheel well. Ideal fit would be 225/45R16 tyres however the are now only available in a couple of R-spec track tyres that are not that great for road use i.e. they're really slippery when cold and wet, and very noisy. This feedback comes from a good friend who has Yokohama R-spec tyres on his GTV6.

Overall I'm happy with the refurbished Borbet's. They're a matching set manufactured the 29th week of 1989 (I was in Year 11 at high school dreaming of GTV6s and 105s) that were in storage for 15 years by a local Alfisti and repainted by Neway Wheels. As an added bonus I managed to find a single Borbet wheel as my spare via a Facebook group. This was located also in the Netherlands and was manufactured the 9th week of 1991, around the time I started University and reading about the release of the SZ (aka Il Mostro) in Wheels magazine.

Photos below of my Borbet wheels, the oversized 225 tyres smacking hard against the front sideskirt plus the right-sized 205 replacements.

Photos of the painted rear suspension, fuel lines after Monza Motors modified the floor pan to accommodate the banjo fittings and the fitted fuel tank.

And the oh-so-sexy exhaust front engine pipes with factory heat shield also fitted.

Very nice!

I'm going to have the same issues with front tyre clearance (planning on 225/35R18), but plan to perform some surgery on the side sills/skirts to make them fit.

Just leave the exhaust like that, lol  :o

Quote from: shiny_car on July 14, 2022, 09:03:00 PM
Very nice!

I'm going to have the same issues with front tyre clearance (planning on 225/35R18), but plan to perform some surgery on the side sills/skirts to make them fit.

Just leave the exhaust like that, lol  :o

You should be fine as 225/35R18 gives the same overall diameter as a standard GTV6 wheel/tyre combo, not sure about the 75 though. As for the exhaust, I was thinking about some side exit pipes...not sure the neighbours would be happy with the noise levels though!

Looking great!

I know there is less room on a standard 75 compared to a standard GTV6 with the wheel arches. I tried my Ronals with 205/55/15s (which fit easily on the GTV) but scrubbed terribly in the 75. However, both of you are using non-standard body-kits so you probably have even less room!

636mm seems huge. I'm currently running 205/50/15s and that equates to 585mm. Might explain my lack of ground clearance...

I'm also using Yoko R-spec and don't find them noisy but very slippery in the wet or when cold. Lovely and progressive though... ::)

Quote from: GTVeloce on July 19, 2022, 11:25:29 AM
I'm also using Yoko R-spec and don't find them noisy but very slippery in the wet or when cold. Lovely and progressive though... ::)

Noise wasn't a problem when new but now with a couple of years use he finds them very noisy. To the point where he thought he had a dodgy wheel bearing but no, it's the tyres!

Quote from: Anth73 on July 14, 2022, 08:13:58 PM
And the oh-so-sexy exhaust front engine pipes with factory heat shield also fitted.

Gorgeous!

Hi Anth73,
I fitted 225/50R15 and kept the the full wheel size as close to 615mm.
No issue.
My GTV had 17' rims and the overall wheel size was 635 before and they were too big fouling on the guard and inner panel
If you can you should get 15' rims.

Those Simmons look very nice! As does that exhaust. I think I might use the same on my V6 conversion.

Any reason you don't want to run a staggered setup? I've held off doing this with the belief that this way I can rotate them but I think next time (providing I can get the tyres in the sizes I want) I intend to stagger them (205 front and 225 rear). The SZ had staggered tyres so it must be good!  ;D

Quote from: GTVeloce on July 25, 2022, 12:18:13 PM
Any reason you don't want to run a staggered setup? I've held off doing this with the belief that this way I can rotate them but I think next time (providing I can get the tyres in the sizes I want) I intend to stagger them (205 front and 225 rear). The SZ had staggered tyres so it must be good!  ;D

Other than the usual discussion about staggered setups making the car more prone to understeer, which I don't know is the case or not, it was the ability to rotate the tyres and have a spare I can use front or back at all legal road speed limits.

Interestingly, the SZ had 205/55R16 fronts and 225/50R16 back. Both tyre sizes result in an overall diameter of 632mm. I never did try 205/55R16 on the front as I didn't want to buy another tyre that wouldn't fit. In 15" and 16" sizes there is SFA now available in 225 width and around 615mm OD to suit the GTV6 other than some low budget Chinese tyres or R-spec road/track tyres.

@ALFAA - I previously had 15" rims but they would not clear my new Tarox 298mm front brakes, hence the 16" rim.

There's quite a number of wheel and tyre requirements listed within the Vehicle Standards Bulletin 14 to also consider:

• The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to a passenger car or passenger car derivative must not be more than 15mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that model.
• Because of the different handling characteristics, the aspect ratio of tyres fitted to the front axle must not vary by more than 10 from the aspect ratio of tyres fitted to the rear axle (e.g. 175 65 R14 front and 205 45 R14 rear, has an aspect ratio difference of 20 and is not recommended.
• All rims fitted to a front axle or a rear axle must be of the same diameter, offset, width and mounting configuration (except for spare wheels used in an emergency situation)
• Where a two-axle vehicle is fitted with different width single tyres, the narrower tyres must not be less than 70% of the width of the wider tyres.
• Tyres fitted to passenger cars or passenger car derivatives must not be more than 30% wider than vehicle manufacturer's widest optional tyre.
• The wheel track of passenger cars (or derivatives) must not be increased by more than 25mm beyond the maximum specified by the vehicle manufacturer for the particular model. This means that the rim offset must not be changed by more than 12.5mm.

From what I've read there is nothing that stops you from running 205/50R15 at the front and 225/50R16 at the rear if you did want a staggered setup and didn't mind the different size rim diameter front to rear. I may consider keeping two of my 225/50R16 tyres for possible fitment on the rear if I find the 205's just aren't coping with what should hopefully be around 200hp  ;D

Another milestone achieved with the fitting of the stainless steel exhaust system I purchased from EB Spares way back in April 2020! As I've come to expect nothing is straight forward, with the centre section needing some massaging to clear the clutch master cyllnder hose and the cross member supporting the torsion bars. The rear section also needed to be cut and reassembled to ensure the rear muffler landed in the correct spot and tailpipe lined up with the cutout in the Zender bumper.

It took the guys at Trackart Custom Fabrication a day to finesse it all, not helped by the unfortunate situation where the exhaust was built with metric tubing whilst we still use imperial tubing. Very happy with the result and looking forward to hearing it in action soon!

This now draws to a close all underbody work. Now to turn our attention to finalising the engine wiring loom, fitting the fuel injection and air intake, fitting the cooling fans and hitting the dyno!

Nice looking tip!

Finalised the tyre setup today. Decided on 225/50R16 tyres on the back, 205/50R16 tyres on the front. Wheels are Borbet Type A 16x7.5 ET30, centre caps still to go on. Don't fret about the air gap over the front tyres, there's still 40kg+ weight to go over that front axle.

Overall diameter of the rear wheels is larger than a standard GTV6 but is offset by my lower 4.1 diff ratio. Gearing ends up slightly lower than a SZ and quite a bit lower than a 75 Potenziata, both with similar power to what I'm expecting to achieve...maybe somewhat less  ;D

Looking great!

Lots of fun this month working our way through the Motec M84 wiring loom and confirming setup options with Melbourne Performance Centre. Our approach to configuring the ECU and wiring to support sequential injection has been giving us some grief. I understand that normally you would use 60-2 timing wheel along with a cam angle sensor so that the ECU knows exactly where the timing is and when to fire fuel and spark in each cylinder. A cam angle sensor requires some form of timing sensor and pickup to be fitted which I'm reluctant to do at this stage as it would mean the camshaft having to come out and drilled. We are following up on using a hall effect sensor in the distributor but the sticking point is that the distributor's "chopper" wheel currently has six slots. This needs to be modified so that it only has one slot and from there the ECU can work out timing in conjunction with the 60-2 timing wheel. Stay tuned (no pun intended) for how we resolve this issue in a timely (oh I'm bad!) manner.

We're trying to keep the engine bay tidy, so plenty of discussion about where best to mount the ECU, cooling fan relays, other required relays and how to run the wiring. We decided to mount the ECU under the glove compartment and use the "V" of the engine to hide the wiring to the injectors and sensors on the front of the engine. At this time we are also taking the opportunity to clean up the factory wiring loom and eradicate unnecessary wiring, remembering that this was the loom for the twin spark four cyclinder patched into the original GTV wiring loom.

We'll also run the wiring loom on the passenger side going to the coil and washer bottle via the underside of the front left guard to keep that tidy. Speaking of washer bottles I'm not too sure on the look of the factory plastic bottle and it's size. What have others done? Use a washer bag from a 105? The loom on the drivers side (RHD remember for our O/S friends reading this) will stay tucked under the front guard water channel and shouldn't be too visible once the modified GTV6 airbox is fitted, just waiting on the custom throttle body to be made by the machinist.

Whilst all this wiring activity has been going on I've had Paul Rankin prepare the GTV6 hatch I found in Brisbane and had shipped to Melbourne after 20+ years in storage. Thanks to David Schmidt from alfagtv6.com fame for his care and dilligence in packaging the hatch for me, greatly appreciated and it's come up beautifully after some fresh paint.

Wiring just about sorted and injectors, fuel rail and plenum fitted.

Mmmm...love your work Rankins Panels!

After a lot of back and forth discussion with Melbourne Performance Centre and meticulous measurements by Mick to get the loom absolutely perfectly fitted out without excess or short wiring, I finally have an engine loom! Well it was 90% done in the attached photo sent yesterday and was actually completed today. We resolved the issue about providing a timing signal from the distributor using the standard "chopper" wheel and removing five of the six protrusions, leaving one small protrusion and one large gap. The Motec ECU is able to read the position of the remaining protrusion, instead of the gap, to determine the camshaft timing. Far easier than trying to maching a new chopper wheel with only one small gap. We also decided to mount all the relays needed for the ECU and cooling fans on the passenger side under the dashboard. I'll grab a photo next time I'm at Monza Motors.

Whilst the engine loom was being completed we started to fit out the cooling fans and the rather large AC condensor. Hard to believe I completed my custom fan setup and wiring in July 2020! It was premised on using a two stage thermo switch but we since went down the path of using the Motec ECU to trigger one fan at 85C and the second fan at 90C, as well as the AC compressor signal input.

Next update should see the cooling system and AC setup complete, and hopefully a video of the engine running.

That's awesome!  Great work happening there.

 Ordering replacements parts for this car in the future might be a problem. A well documented history of the bespoke parts and the suppliers of other non Alfa parts for future owners might be a consideration. This is a well put together project that is so far removed from an original 2000 GTV that any future owner must be connected with the current builders to keep the car viable.   

Quote from: TEE Z2 on September 18, 2022, 08:38:46 PM
Ordering replacements parts for this car in the future might be a problem. A well documented history of the bespoke parts and the suppliers of other non Alfa parts for future owners might be a consideration. This is a well put together project that is so far removed from an original 2000 GTV that any future owner must be connected with the current builders to keep the car viable.

Thanks for the feedback TEE Z2. As Monza Motors can attest to, I've been very diligently managing this project, including keeping a detailed specification of all the components used for each vehicle sub-system. I'm not at all concerned about the future viability of my GTV6 conversion nor the need for Monza Motors to stay in business for it to remain viable.

Any Alfa specialist who knows their way around the GTV / GTV6, Alfa 75 TS LSD transaxle and power steering (both a common GTV6 upgrade) won't be out of their depth maintaining this car. Any Motec dealer can provide support if required and I don't expect Motec to be an orphaned brand anytime soon.

All consumables are standard Alfa parts other than the Tarox front rotors and pads. I would not expect the Brise starter motor or C&B cams to give me any grief and if so, they are current products with vendor support or have viable alternatives available.

The Bosch fuel injectors and alternator are based on existing Porsche and Mercedes specs respectively and readily serviceable by trade specialists if required. The AC system is made up of modern industry-standard parts, so no need to be concerned about future AC servicing either.

A quick trip out to Monza Motors today to drop off some spare coil packs and the AHM distributor cover bearing to Frank, a lovely guy who plans to put them to good use on his supercharged GTV6 3L project....yes supercharged and it should be awesome!

It was a nicely timed visit as my air intake hose and custom alloy adapter plate to connect it to the GTV6 throttle body arrived. The intake hose will marry up to a GTV6 air filter housing base with a custom top half to accept the round tube. The increased size over the 50mm x 50mm square cutout for the standard GTV6 air flow meter is substantial. This should also nicely complement my ported and polished intake runners and inlet manifold without hurting driveability.

My distributor chopper wheel was also back from the machinist and just like a Collingwood supporter (which I am) it's now missing five teeth.

Next week we should have the AC sorted out and the radiator plus cooling fans mounted. Then onto the engine loom and hopefully the motor's first start. Mmmmm I can just about smell the hydrocarbons!

Get well soon Simon!

In a lovely coincidence I decided to fill up at my local servo in Fairfield on Saturday morning and noticed parked on the forecourt was a pretty clean looking Alfetta GTV. The owner had just picked it up from Mount Martha and was struggling to get the petrol cap off, so I went over to help. Turns out it too was a 1981 build  "Grigio nube metallizzato" metallic grey with a "Velluto beige rigato" velour interior, just like mine was when it left the factory.

In hindsight I should've checked his VIN to see how far apart our GTVs were built. Lovely original Momo Star mags and the interior was still the original split dash. I managed to scavenge a photo of it from the Google cache of the Gumtree ad.

Installation of the Motec ECU, engine loom and throttle body continues in preparation for a date with the Melbourne Performance Centre dyno next Friday! So happy to be at the business end of this journey.

Great news received last Friday with my V6 fired up for the first time. It was only a very short run late Friday evening as the cooling system wasn't fully commissioned. I posted a video provided by Mick on the Best Tuned Alfa 75 and GTV6 facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/1027764315/videos/1157879371801289/ (https://www.facebook.com/1027764315/videos/1157879371801289/)

The car is booked in for dyno tuning next week.

That's awesome news!  Well done.

A few more engine bay photos. Dyno tuning throughout next week at Melbourne Performance Centre to finalise the Motec setup in a variety of cold and hot start / running conditions. Aiming for at least 180hp at the wheels and a nice strong torque curve.

Short video in the comments of the car being driven for the first time since Jan '21. Very happy with the sound!

https://m.facebook.com/groups/867666823289359/permalink/5869603373095654/?sfnsn=mo&mibextid=BUZLm6

Dyno tuning has started!

Engine bay looks awesome!
Will we get to see [& hear] her in the flesh at Spettacolo next weekend?

Well the dyno numbers are in and I'm very happy with the results for a build that targeted a fast road setup with usable power/torque. Dyno number are 125kW / 230Nm at the wheels (not sure why 190Nm is quoted as the max torque), so perhaps 150kW or a little more if you believe the 18% driveline losses typically quoted for a GTV6. Every dyno is different so who knows what it may actually be. About on par for a warm 3L 12V given the SZ was quoted at 154kW.

The power and torque curves are really nice though, good torquey midrange with sustained top end power to 7400rpm.

Back to Rankins Panels for final fitting of the new bonnet and hatch, a couple of minor things to tidy up with Monza Motors and then off to Spetaccolo on Sunday to mark the end of a 22 month journey.

Nice one.  Solid numbers.  Would have been nice to achieve your aim of 180hp atw, but for a street car, the numbers are a bit academic when you're not driving on the rev limit very much.

Pity I can't make Spettacolo!  :-\

Some interesting feedback regarding the flat power numbers from 6400rpm, suggesting a lack of airflow. I opted not to enlarge the plenum throats and intake runners despite these being pointed out in Jim K's book as being inadequate for a tuned 3L. Looks like I've got a date with some flapper wheels in the future.

Great to see it up and running! Well done on a big achievement.

Like you, I suspect there might be a little more to be had at the higher end if you can get it to flow better.

I'm also surprised to see peak torque at so high an RPM but I'm no expert. The SZ had peak power at 6200 and peak torque at 4500 but that was running Motronic with AFM. Did RJ give you an idea of curve characteristics of his camshafts? And if so, does what you have match?

I went with C&B "road max" cams. Though the torque peak is higher in the rpm range, 90% is available from 3000rpm. Hopefully that translates to a good midrange. The engine is still quite new also, expect it to loosen up over the first 1000km.

Christmas came a month early with the present being a 3lt busso to drive home. I'm still smiling from the experience! See you at Spettacolo on Sunday.

Some pics from early morning at Sunday's Spettacolo. It was a great turnout with plenty of 116 Series cars on display. My GTV6 conversion attracted plenty of onlookers once I felt comfortable leaving the bonnet open despite the threatening grey clouds.

Well done to all who came along and to the organising committee. There were so may well presented Alfas it would have been a challenge to pick the Show 'n' Shine winner.

Thought I'd provide an update after a month or so of getting my GTV back on the road. As you'd expect there were a couple of minor teething problems to resolve. Firstly, on the drive home from Spettacolo I noticed a trickle of water on the footrest and realised we'd forgotten to connect an AC drain hose to the back of the evaporator box. My GTV wasn't an AC equipped car originally, so it lacked the hose and the pressing in the floorpan was still blocked off. Thankfully Monza Motors had a spare AC drain hose. Secondly and more seriously, I had power steering fluid on the garage floor. After getting the car towed back to Monza Motors they diagnosed the leak was caused by a poor fitting clamp on the power steering hose near the pump. The rack and pump were both okay.

Also annoyingly the reconditioned 120A alternator I fitted isn't charging sufficiently at low rpm, causing the battery warning light to glow for the first few minutes of driving. We had to fit a slightly larger diameter pulley so the alternator drive belt would clear the crank angle sensor but it should not have made too much difference to the alternator charging. We'll look at that at the 1,000km service. One last niggle is a slight driveline vibration caused by the front donut cage. The tailshaft was balanced however not with the donut cage fitted...there's a trap for the unitiated!

I also had Santa deliver a couple of very nice NOS parts. The odometer on my speedo wasn't working and the speedo itself always read 10-15kmh too low. I managed to find a NOS GTV6 speedo with "00008" on the odometer. The parts label on the original factory packaging has a date of 14/02/85 so I have no concerns about its authenticity. I'll also know exactly how many kms my newly built 3Lt V6 has travelled other than 200km or so going to/from Monza Motors and to Spettacolo. It also reads within 4kmh of my GPS speedo I was using as a backup.

I also decided not to fit a radio and instead sourced a NOS GTV6 blanking plate with the original parts label and packaging dated 30/03/94. I'll fit a bluetooth receiver hidden under the dash, amplifier in the boot and speakers in the rear door cards as per factory fitting.

Overall I'm really enjoying the V6's extra torque over the twin spark previously fitted and the noise from the 3Lt is an absolute delight!

A better photo of the parts label on the speedo

Thanks to Mick Aarons I now have further historical record of my GTV. The photos below were taken at Monza Motors on 15 August 2005 by Mick using his 3mp Canon digital camera.

Whilst he was capturing some gorgeous looking parts for his turbo Delta engine, parked next to the famous yellow Ignis GTV6 is my GTV with it's freshly installed 75 2Lt twin spark motor. The zender body kit and Simmons B45 wheels are still to be fitted. Whilst I'm very happy with my Borbet Type A wheels now on the car, the B45s looked great on the GTV.

If you're considering an indoor car cover for your GTV / GTV6 I can highly recommend the cover I bought from Victor Parts. It fits like a glove and is flock lined to prevent scratching the paint.

After all the time, money & effort you have put into the car wouldn't putting it in a Safe be a more appropriate option?  ;)

The cover looks good!  I have a 156 version on my 75, lol.

Completed my audio installation over the weekend and Australia Day, taking inspiration from an AlfaBB member's bluetooth audio setup in their Spider. As mentioned in an earlier post I fitted a NOS GTV6 radio blanking plate instead of a period style AM/FM radio cassette. My plan was to use that free space to install a bluetooth audio receiver with speakers in the rear door cards.

The bluetooth receiver I used is a JL Audio MBT-RX that is A2DP standard and designed for installation in cars, boats and other AV vehicles. It comes with a fused power wire, ground wire and two RCA connectors which suited me fine. I wanted it setup so that it would power on with the engine running and found the easiest power source available was that going to my absent glove box light. Current draw is a tiny 20mA to 32mA so no issues using this connection in my mind. Conveniently the glove box light wiring commences at a 3-pin connector just behind the radio/ashtray compartment.

I also fitted an RCA line level controller bought from Jaycar to function as a volume button so I don't have to touch my phone when driving to alter the volume. It comes with input RCA plugs that connect to the RCA jacks on the MBT-RX and output RCA plugs that go to my boot mounted amplifier. It fitted nicely in the centre console under the ashtray for easy access whilst driving and keeps everything else looking stock.

I bought a JVC 4-channel amplifier as it was a known brand, well priced and small enough to mount in my boot near my battery. I was also going to mount a small subwoofer in the boot however, the amplifer pulls 15A and the subwoofer another 15A. I'm not really into doof-doof thumping bass lines and opted to save my valuable idle amperes for my cooling fans. You'll see I bolted the amplifier to the boot floor on small wooden blocks.  It was recommended on several audio websites to avoid mounting directly on metal surfaces (introduces a lot of noise, crackles and pops) and the heat generated from the amplifier had me worried about toasting the factory original GTV6 moulded carpet set I bought from the Netherlands. Happily all the wiring is nicely hidden behind my battery ad the boot carpet needed just a little trimming to fit around my floor mounted battery.

The Pioneer 5.5" speakers I bought were a dead easy fitting as they exactly matched the existing cutouts and screw holes in the rear panels near the window winder knob. I upsized the photographed 250W speakers to 300W as they are the same profile and only a little more expensive. Overall the sytems produces more than enough noise for me, it's great to have some modern audio connectivity in the car and besides, who wants to drown out the magic of a worked busso V6 being driven as Giuseppe Busso intended!

I love that blanking plate. Looks fantastic.

I hadn't heard about not mounting the amp on metal. Mine is mounted on the metal, boot side of the rear seat wall. I might look at insulating it from the metal.

Where did you mount your speakers?

Quote from: GTVeloce on February 03, 2023, 11:43:36 AM
Where did you mount your speakers?

Factory mounting is in the rear near the window winder knobs. The 5.5" speakers are  as big as you can fit I think. Realised I wrote "door cards" by mistake...have fixed that now.

Having completed the installation of my buetooth receiver and amplifier I wanted to replace the bulky single USB adapter in my cigarette lighter with a flush fitting dual USB socket. Despite many attempts I was unable to find a dual USB adapter that was long enough to fully engage and power up with the standard cigarette lighter.

A bit of googling and I came up with a solution comprising of:

- 12V to 5V 3A dual USB female charger bought from Amazon (photo 1 below)
- 22mm USB connector socket with dual male 60cm connectors (photo 2 below)

Most USB sockets I found were around 28mm in diameter and made of plastic. So I was very happy to find a 22mm wide socket with aluminium body to fit in the standard 25mm hole in the centre console for the cigarette lighter. I had already wired up a connector when I installed my bluetooth adapter, but you could easily use the existing wiring for the cigarette lighter. Just make sure you use the correct yellow wire for power as there are two. One is used for the light bulb next to the cigarette lighter, the other powers the actual cigarette lighter. Once you remove the centre console it is very straight forward to determine which is the correct wire if you don't have a wiring diagram handy, and removing the cigarette lighter is as easy as squeezing the metal body of the light bulb fitting to remove it from the cigarette lighter and that then allows the cigarette lighter to rotate and free the retaining clips.

Installing the USB socket is very easy, as it secures with a large plastic nut from the underside. The socket comes with an optional plastic cover which wasn't to my liking. I hid the USB charger alongside my bluetooth receiver in the cavity where the radio would normally go. The 60cm length male connectors wired to the socket were perfect.

I think the flush fitting looks smart without detracting from the otherwise standard look of the interior.

Sourced a few more bits and pieces as I tick off items on the to-do list. First up is the rare power distribution terminal complete with cover that is mounted on the firewall near the brake booster. The covers are starting to be 3D printed but I was happy to find an original and complete unit. All that was required was a section of 10G wire to join the two terminals. I used the left terminal for the main battery feed and starter motor cables, right terminal for everything else.

I'm also planning to convert my manual windows to power windows and already have the correct motors for my earlier style doors. Inspired by GTVeloce's recent posts about the illuminated power window switches he installed, I bought four aftermarket illuminated switches and wiring pigtails online,  installed two into the dash and kept the originals  I received with the motors and two illuminated aftermarket switches as spares.  The aftermarket switches were very easy to install using four pin terminal connectors between the original Alfa wiring loom and the aftermarket switches which require a fifth wire due to the extra earth connection.

Luke Clayton recently posted about a large supply of spare parts and from that I was able to source the emergency window winder and a LHS front indicator lense to replace the one on my car that was actually a RHS unit fitted upside down.

Lastly, I never did gel with the 350mm Momo steering wheel that was on the car. It always felt too small for my liking, even with power steering now fitted. I had been looking for a 360mm Momo steering wheel to replace it, ideally that used in the SZ but they are incredibly rare. Similar Momo Ghibli steering wheels are also now stupidly expensive locally as they were used on Brock / HDT Commodores. Then I happened to see a Facebook post from a reputabe Alfa specialist regarding a restored SZ "replica" wheel. It has the same Momo identification numbers stamped on the back, 360mm diameter, manufactured May 1990 and came with the Zagato Design hornpad. I think it looks really good!

Other than a trip down to Sorrento I haven't been able to get the GTV6 out on the road lately. A drive in the northern hills beckons this long weekend.

I've always loved those Momo SZ steering wheels and it looks great in the GTV6. Agree the 360mm size is about right. I have a 360mm Nardi in mine and very happy with that.

If you want to see how the rest of the wiring for the electric windows runs, my dash is off making if very easy to follow the trail of spaghetti... It's actually pretty easy. The wiring part is very straight forward for these cars. Probably the hard part is mounting the motors in the doors unless you have the complete set of parts. I did it to my current car but I used the glass and everything making it reasonably straight forward.

Today was the first real opportunity to give the GTV6 a proper early morning run in the countryside using many secondary and back roads I'm familiar with from my road cycling training rides through the north eastern hills. My good friend Steve and his friend Carmine joined the fun in their GTV6 and 4C respectively. Commiserations to Julian (aka GT Veloce) who had to pull out last night due to illness.

Below are the links to the route we travelled via Warrandyte, Watsons Creek, St Andrews, Yarra Glen, Healesville, Castella, Kinglake, Nutfield, Kangaroo Ground, Eltham and Viewbank if you'd like to use these as a basis to plan your own drive. It was about 180km in total and there are many variations, but do check the roads around Christmas Hills as many are still gravel. My favourite sections were Pigeon Bank Rd / Menzies Rd around Kangaroo Ground, Clintons Road from Rob Roy to Smiths Gully, Buttermans Track from St Andrews to Yarra Glen, Myers Creek Rd from Healesville to Castella and the Kinglake descent which I had all to myself and the fabulous Busso V6 spinning from 3000rpm to 6000rpm. I'm very happy to have fitted the Tarox 6-pot 298mm front brakes as they were fade free despite plenty of heavy braking.

My GTV6 ran beautifully, handling the corners with ease thanks to the revised roll centre brought about by fitting the extended top arm ball joints up front. It was a noticeble difference compared to when I had the Twin Spark 75 motor fitted and no revised roll centre. Steve and I swapped cars from Healesville, the 2.5V6 in the GTV6 really does sing a sweet note. However, on a sour note the clutch had been complaining for some time prior to today, downshifts got progressivly harder and it packed it in once I reached Castella. Stuck in gear, Steve's GTV6 was disabled by the side of the road. On a positive note I got to drive Carmine's 4C while we waited for the tow truck. What an exhilirating drive! 

The only minor issue for me was a few crunched 4th to 3rd shifts even though the cluth was fully depressed and shifts taken patiently, something to look into at the 1000km run-in service. Lastly, skip the Beechworth Bakery in Healesville, coffee was average and there are much better options.

Link to the google map route to Healesville: https://goo.gl/maps/6eHFj3eZqGGHpz2d9

Link to the google map route from Healesville: https://goo.gl/maps/zEEZeAMxTmkqu7MP9

It's a little strange to look at the GTV6 & 4C together, but eons apart.

One being traditional & old school, the other futuristic & alien, you wouldn't ponder that they were the same manufacturer.

That's because the GTV was designed in Milan 8) and the 4C in Turin  ::)

Whilst they are unfortunate circumstances, what a great photo with the two gtv6's.
The Healesville are alive with the sound of Busso!.... sorry couldn't help it  :-[

what was the issue with the GTV6?

I've been making use of the poorly timed wet weather of late to complete a few odd jobs on my GTV6. First up was to install the front and rear splash plates in the front wheel wells. I bought the splash plates from EB Spares in 2021 and they sat in a box waiting for the engine conversion to be completed. Fortunately this delay meant reproduction rubber pinchweld seals were able to be sourced from Italy to keep debris out of the cavity formed behind the rear splash plate. As you can see in the photo below of the dustpan, quite a lot of stones and other debris gets flicked up by the front tyre. I brushed out over 300g worth from the passenger side alone!

Installation was very straightforward once I was able to hammer out the body seal where the firewall and inner guard meet back into a vertical line and position the rear splash plate against it. Mine had been hammered flat to provide a little more clearance for the front tyres with a lot of castor added in for racing purposes I'm guessing. So far no signs of rubbing thankfully.

The front spash plates don't have anything attached to the bottom "L" bracket as the factory inner guard on my car must have met it's fate with rust and an angle grinder when the car had its bare metal restoration. All were secured with stainless rivets except for two attachment points visible in the engine bay on the front passenger side spash plate. For those I used 5mm stainless steel bolts and nuts.

Here's the parts labels for the pinchweld. It was quite expensive due to shipping and you may find something similar from Clark Rubber could do the job also.

Another job ticked off the to-do list was to fit headlight relays, the benefits of which are very well documented on this forum. As expected, my low beams were very feeble in the illumination stakes, whilst my high beams would give a brief flicker and nothing more. I actually thought my column switch was broken and expected to fork out $400 for a replacement. With the relays fitted my high beams work again and low beam now shine brightly enough to make feel confident driving at night.

I ran 12AWG cable from the power terminal on the firewall to a four-way bus bar I sourced from a marine electronics store as it fitted neatly in the space next to the air filter housing and comes with a secure press-on cover. Two SPST 30A relays were used, one for low beam and one for high beam, with 15A fuses fitted to each. 14AWG cable runs from the relays to each of the main plugs behind the headlight buckets but I did not replace the short length of wire from the plug into the headlight itself. The AWG cable ratings are well within recommended max amperage for this size cable and the lengths used, by default I never exceed 80% of the rated maximum value.

The trigger for each relay was taken from the existing main wiring loom. I rewrapped the main loom using a nice cloth tape I picked up from Autobarn and used PVC tubing for all other wiring. Silly me, however, originally snipped the parking light feed wire in the main loom instead of the low beam feed wire. Pays to check twice and cut once!

An added benefit was being able to reposition the main wiring loom as it was routed directly in front of the air filter intake and through the opening in the front panel. It only took a few minutes to unscrew the front grille to get complete access to the wiring loom across the front of the car. I rerouted it to tuck in next to the radiator, including the wiring to the pressure switch on my AC receiver dryer which we located behind the front grille.

I'm very happy with the inconspicious look of the relays and bus bar, plus the improvement in headlight function and safety benefits it brings. Photos attached of the end result, wiring loom and my now clear air filter intake instead of the wiring loom next to it running through the opening.

Now that the cooler months are here it was time to address the setup of my cooling fans. The Motec M84 ECU has two fan auxilary outputs that trigger the fans via relays. The fans are twin 13A GATES units within a shroud from an early 2000's Alfa GT 3.2V6 triggered by the Motec ECU. Fan 1 starts at 82C and whenever the A/C is running,  it turns off at 80C. Fan 2 turns on at 86C and off at 85C. Hence you can see that Fan 1 will do most of the cooling with this setup and not take advantage of the cooling capacity of my aluminium radiator and fan shroud.

The Motec fan outputs are not PWM enabled outputs, when the fans start up they are drawing almost 40A each before settling down to about 13A each at full speed. The inrush current cannot be healthly on the alternator and starting up both simulataneously would be a big no-no. So I decided to look into a PWM fan controller that could gradually ramp up the fans to full speed.

There are a few aftermarket options which are pretty expensive, then I found a 20-page long thread on another forum where they used an OEM fan controller fitted to various Mazda, Mitsubishi and Nissan models through the early 2000's. These fan controllers are still available as new factory OEM units (silver in colour) for about $100 or aftermaket (black in colour) for about $40. Either model works on the same design principles, up to two fans are controlled via a PWM control wire. The PWM signal on the control wire can be from an ECU or an existing PWM signal generator. But what sparked my interest is that when this control wire is grounded the fans are no longer powered. If the control wire is left open, the controller goes into fail-safe mode and gradually powers up the fans to maximum speed. Also, if you place a 5.6K or 6.2K resistor between the control wire and ground, the controller powers the fans at around 75%.

I was able to use the fan controller and my two existing Motec auxilary outputs to emulate a two speed, dual fan setup using a 4-pin SPST relay to control power to the fan controller and a 5-pin SPDT relay to control the low-high speed switch by either grounding the control wire (connected to pin 30) via a resistor (connected to ground via pin 87A) or leaving it open (pin 87).

I can now run both fans simulataneously with a 10 second ramp up to full speed with the peace of my that my alternator is not getting smashed. If the resistor fails the fan controller will go into fail safe mode and run the fans at maximum speed when required. As an added safety measure I bought an OEM and aftermarket controller for my spares inventory.

Photos below of the test fitting I did to make sure the fan controller cleared the bonnet, the final setup with all fan controller wiring hidden under the factory wiring loom next to the washer bottle and radiator overflow, the resistor installed next to my power window relays in the passenger footwell (it's grounded via the dash mounting bolt) and the circuit diagram I used to guide my installation.

A couple more photos of the fan controller installation. It's about the size of your hand, so quite compact and fits well on the upper radiator support panel. I used stainless steel rivnuts to provide threaded mounts for the stainless steel bolts.

From memory I purchased the sumitomo connectors from Aliexpress. Wiring was 10AWG for the on/off relay given the length of the cable run from the relay to the fan controller. The power and ground wires from the fan controller to the fans are 12AWG. The control wire was 14AWG as I had some spare but you could use 16AWG as it is very low current.

The forum post discussing the PWM fan controller is https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/1906766-variable-speed-pwm-fan-control-under-25-less-diy.html

It's a very neat install and likewise the engine bay! I will look at something very similar if not the same soon. I have the Davies Craig electric water pump installed which uses PWM for the pump but sadly not for the fans. The electronic controller just produces a single output which feeds a relay. Your setup will be a much better solution.

Hey Julian you may want to look at the Tridon TFS205 dual stage thermo switch to use as the switching circuit along with the fan controller. I had planned to do this when using Bosch Motronic but then decided to go with the Motec ECU and used it to control engine cooling also.

In my earlier post regarding the cooling fan controller and relays I also showed how I setup my power window relays on the passenger side. I mounted the driver side power window relays also on the kick panel rather than on the inside of the door frame taking the same approach i.e. using a ground bus bar for all the ground wires which I then ground to the existing under-dash ground point, which is the dash mounting bolt. Power was supplied by a new 12G wire from the existing power terminal on the driver side firewall to a new power terminal on the drivers kick panel. Each relay is individually protected with a 20A fuse.

I allowed plenty of length to feed the wires to the window motor via the curved plastic conduit that will be inserted between the A-pillar and door. Can't remember where I sourced these from but I did find some excellent condition rubber seals for them from the Netherlands, cold climates are kinder on rubber it seems.

The power window motors will be fitted once I drop the car off at Monza Motors for its 1000km service. I was advised these motors are unique to the earlier style doors which have screw-in door cards. Heads will be tightened, fresh oil and filter, plus a few little things to address such as improving air flow to the factory airbox, addressing a vibration in the driveline (think its the front donut cage) and investigating why I get a bit of driveline fore/aft bucking at low speed and light throttle (worn dedion bush?). Meanwhile Paul Rankin will paint my bonnet tea tray, LHS door mirror cover and jack mounting hardware I also sourced from the Netherlands.

Below are photos of the driver side power window relay setup, the wiring schematic I followed (though Pin 85 goes to ground in my setup), the jack mounting hardware I'm getting painted and the power windows motors, conduits and seals.

The winter driving hiatus was the perfect time to address a few minor items leftover from the V6 conversion. The job list for Mick and Hugh at Monza Motors consisted of:

- 1000km "run in" engine service
- Airbox mod to improve airflow
- Remove front donut cage and rebalance my shortened Alfa 75 tailshaft to address noticeable vibrations at high revs
- Investigate why the car would kangaroo hop at very low speeds with light throttle openings. This seemed more suspension related than anything to do with fuel or ignition.
- Fit and wire up my power window motors in the doors
- Get my spare keys cut and matched to all door and hatch locks

Rankins Panels were also refreshing the paint on my bonnet tea tray and LHS mirror cover, fit the jack clip and bolt in the boot and the LHS demister clip for the rear window.

The airbox mod is quite straight forward and involves a nice small section of right-angle piping being attached to the bottom of the airbox. This pokes out through the inner guard just behind the headlight assembly. You may recall my dyno power numbers flatlined from 6400rpm to 7500 rpm and I suspected airflow was the issue. I'll give it another run on the dyno once the engine has loosened up a little more to validate if the airbox mod has helped.

The trouble I went to fitting all new wiring and relays for the power windows was justified with a window "up" time of less than three seconds....amazing for a GTV6! As my doors are from the earlier single dash cars they were missing the bump stop for the window. Thankfully I was able to source these from my ever-reliable GTV6 parts man in the Netherlands as he had a couple of rusted out doors which still had the fabricated metal bumps tops with rubber stop in pretty good condition. These were sandblasted, painted and riveted on by Rankins Panels.

My hunch about something in the rear suspension causing the kangaroo hopping was right. It was like a slow motion back and forth pitching movement at low revs in 1st and 2nd gear, like when you're just off idle in slow moving traffic. The existing rubber dedion bush was pretty badly perished and replaced with a new one. We did discuss the merits of a poly bush but the stories of them being very creaky put me off.

Unfortunately we had less success with the tailshaft vibration issue. We removed the front donut cage even though it was confirmed that the tailshaft was balanced with it in place...no improvement unfortunately. We also double checked the whole driveline alignment and fitted some good used factory engine mounts as those I purchased from EB Spares are noticeably taller than factory...a slight improvement but still not great. I've decided to try out an original GTV6 tailshaft which will need to be cleaned up and rebalanced. All my donuts and the centre bearing were new, so I'm not expecting they are a concern.

Below are photos of the airbox mod, the old dedion bush and the window bump stops for the doors. Looking forward to some Spring driving weather and Spettacolo in November.

And the airbox mod photos...