1) A week or so ago, my wife was in City mode negotiating a round-a-bout when the car slipped into neutral.
2) Today, I was barrelling up a hill climb in manual mode through a corner in 2nd. When I selected 3rd with the flappy paddle it went straight into 5th. I took it easy from there and coasted down the other side of the hill. I then turned left from a standing start on the flat. While trying to accelerate hard up the straight in 2nd again, the car started to surge/pulse (very evenly/rhythmically) and then when trying to select 3rd with the paddle, it once again went straight into 5th again.
About 10 minutes later, the engine light came on.
I drove the remaining 100km's home in City mode where it performed flawlessly.
I've just scanned the engine and gearbox. Fatal error codes PO420 and 430. I've just recently fitted new cat sensors (all 4 of them) and before purchasing any of them, I'd visually inspected the cats and found them to be perfect (well at least visually and obviously not rattling etc).
Scanning of the gearbox presented no error codes...?...
Happy Fathers Day to all.
At the back of the engine near the firewall there are two large "Block & Slide" electrical connectors, one black, one purple. the O2 sensors run through these plugs and are notorious for causing issues. Open them up and give a good spray with electrical cleaner and open & close them several times to clean up the pin contacts.
WARNING! - MAKE SURE YOU DISCONNECT THE BATTERY NEGATIVE LEAD FIRST!!
As for the gear changes, me guess, the car tries to go from 3rd to 4th, but hunts & fumbles around for a moment and then says bugger it, its all too hard and jumps into 5th?
The usual cause is a loose Engagement Lever Pin Securing Screw, most commonly (but incorrectly) referred to as the "Pinch Bolt". It's the bolt that connects the gear selector horn that sticks out of the top of the gearbox to the actual Selespeed Actuator.
Carry out a "Engagement Lever Pin Securing Screw diagnosis" with MES and see if it passes/fails. If it fails it is definitely the pinch Bolt being loose. Even if it passes, it can still be the problem, re-torque it anyway.
Be aware, a faulty MAF can also set off the O2 sensor errors, give it a clean with MAF Cleaner, can't hurt, can only do good.
(I did tell you diagnostics was very much a black art . . . . didn't I.) 8)
Thank you so much as always Bazz.
Just to be clear, it shifted from 2nd to 5th on two occasions in manual mode and not from 3rd to 5th as you wrote in your response.
I'll report back here with the results of all procedures you've recommended.
The black art of diagnostics indeed... 8)
Could also be a faulty Gear selection position sensor (One on the back of the Actuator near the driveshaft).
...and you recommend replacing that sensor and the one next to it at the same time, given if one goes the other probably won't be far behind...?...the engagement and position sensors.
Correct?
Yes, the sensors are simple carbon track potentiometers and do wear out sometimes. Check all the other items first, as they don't cost anything but the sensors aren't cheap usually.
So I've only had time to clean the purple connector blocks on the firewall and the MAF sensor thus far. Today I went to downshift from 3rd to 2nd when the box fumbled around and decided to remain in 3rd. From then on, I was unable to select any other gear with the paddles or stick, or to select City mode. I pulled over and was unable to select neutral or reverse. I then shut it down and rebooted it. The gear selection LED said 3 still and from there I was able to select neutral, put the car into City and off we went.
I'm thinking this issue is beyond the engagement pin mechanical adjustment and is a sensor.
I'm bored at an airport waiting for a very delayed flight...🙄
Thoughts?
Did you check with MES?
MES result was 0C. No error codes.
Quote from: SeleMatt on September 09, 2019, 05:51:34 PM
MES result was 0C. No error codes.
What are you referring to here?
The result of the MES scan after executing the engagement pin securing screw diagnosis. Thr result was no error codes and a status of OC..
The correct no error result should be 00.
Get yourself a new Selespeed sensor and replace the selector sensor at the back of the actuator, that is the usual culprit when it comes to this sort of thing if its not the Pinch Bolt.
Try Arese Spares or Italian Automotive Spares for one.
No worries and thanks. I'll check the pinch bolt first and go from there.
Okay.
So around every 500 to 1000 k's the engine light comes on with lambda sensor failure P420 430 blah blah blah.
This is since having replaced all 4 02 sensors with new Bosch items and checked that the cats are okay.
Apparently I'm supposed to have carried out an 'adaptive parameter reset' since replacing the sensors, something I wasn't aware of.
I've just looked this up in my MES guide and I can't find such a process to carry out.
Am I missing something here?
Self Adaptation Reset is TAB "F7 Adjustments" in the Engine ECU Menu.
Have you cleaned the 2 sliding block connectors at the back of the engine up against the firewall? One is purple, the other black.
Thanks for that Bazz and yes, I have cleaned the contact blocks, as stated earlier in the thread, with the worlds most expensive contact block cleaner, CRC. I've also cleaned the MAF sensor with their equally extortionate product for that job. Start up is producing a rather fuel vapoury exhaust at present. Economy is rather ordinary too. Still pulling like a teenager when up to full operating temperature though. Oil change tomorrow and I'm going to extract the plugs too, paying attention to plug No1 as the oil consumption is still a bit poor. May have an intake manifold issue.
So.
Completed the self adaptation reset successfully. Drove up to the GC and back - a couple of hundred K's - and when about 5k's from home, back on goes the engine light. Catalyser PO420 and 430. Again. The engine light has consistently come on after a sustained period of highway running and not driving around locally stop/start. I can only assume the cats are cactus despite there being no obvious defect by visual inspection or any rattle.
Thoughts?
Which sensors are the codes relating to? (Which Bank, Upper or lower)
This is a copy of a response I have given to Citroënbender on a similar matter.
A lot of the times it is not the O2 sensor itself but connections. For example on the 147 TS one of the O2 sensor connectors is mounted on the side of the head between the head and gearbox at the front. Sometimes the heat affects the connections and they lose contact. I solve that problem by using a pair of Forceps and twisting each pin in the grey plug 15 degrees so that it makes a tighter fit in the female pin.
The other cause of this is you have a leak in the exhaust. Can be caused by the following -
1/ O2 Sensor loose in its exhaust fitting
2/ Crack in any of the welds - this is usually caused by the exhaust taking a hit from large speed bump ect
Look for a black & whitish/grey powder flash from any of the welds where the exhaust gases have been leaking. If there is a crack/hole/leak it can be welded or sealed with Exhaust Putty.
1) GROAN
2) When completing the first oil change after buying the car, I noticed a black carbon patch on the exhaust joint where the cat finishes; where it's welded to the engine pipe in front of the post cat sensor and so knew it was cracked. I had it welded up straight away.
3) After inspecting it this morning, I discovered the black patch has returned; obviously the weld has failed.
4) I think we can safely presume that the 4 new sensors fitted and purchased was pointless to the extent that the exhaust crack/leak/suck has been setting the engine light off.
5) GROAN
6) The exhaust shop tells me that this is not unusual and certainly not exclusively an 'Alfa' thing. Apparently you can weld an exhaust joint and sometimes it holds for ever...or 3 months....or you don't even get around the block. So they're going to weld it up again. If it doesn't work I'll have to get another manifold. I actually replaced all the exhaust hangers just after I bought the car because the back box was a little on the sag. I've sourced a brand new manifold for a grand which I believe is cheap. Hopefully the weld will hold this time... at least for a few months...
All a bit depressing.
Just don't shoot the messenger. 8)
One shouldn't ever shoot the messenger..thanks Bazz
And so onto the next job. The fitting up of the new gear position and gear engagement sensors.
Beyond the battery and tray removal, what else do I need to know? Can I remove anything else to improve access or is it pretty much by braille from there?
Any assistance appreciated.
Gear Engagement Sensor is the one on top, straight forward.
The Gear Selection Sensor on the back is the tricky one, I do it myself by feel, but if you strain to look over the back of the actuator you can just see the RH screw and use that as a guide for the left one. Or you can position a mirror to do it.
Just make sure you use good quality torque tips, because if you round out the heads of the screws on the back sensor, you're gonna have to pull the actuator out.
Thanks once again Bazz. Are the torx heads holding the sensors on the ones with the pin in the the centre or not?
Isn't the clutch sensor on the top of the actuator too...which is which?
I take it there's no improvement to access via removing the inner guard?
Thanks again.
No pin.
Clutch Sensor is the one forward, closest to the radiator.
Just thought I'd share - as a non-selespeed owner, I'm "proud" to say I had my very own genuine selespeed experience last week.
My 156 (V6 Q-auto) was in the workshop for belt change/service etc, and i was given a loan car to use overnight - a Series 1 Twin Spark 156 Sportwagon with selespeed.
Was quite good fun to punt about (you really can feel the weight difference of the 2.0 v the V6 and it was still pretty lively)
... until I drove the car to work next morning in peak hour traffic on the freeway.
I was pootling along happily in 2nd in stop-start traffic, when the car suddenly wouldn't rev above 1000rpm. Also wouldn't change gear, so tried to shift back into city mode, then managed to get back into 1st but it still wouldn't rev. It then went to neutral and wouldn't go into any gear at all.
So here I am stuck dead in the middle of the freeway, can't get off the road with cars piling up behind and honking/swearing at me, while I'm desperately thinking back to all your posts about dealing with a selespeed gone haywire.
Thought I'll try and reset, so turned ignition off, but couldn't get it to start again - for at least a (very looong) minute. At which point it fired up and all was good again.
While I did start laughing in the midst of it all - given it wasn't my car - I have to say I couldn't live with that sort of daily dread.
Felt like I had the sword of Damocles as a factory fitted option...
From what you have described it sounds like it had nothing to do with the Selespeed. (In first/second gear and won't rev over 1000 rpm)
Sounds like you had a little "Target Fixation". ;)
If anything goes wrong with the Engine or Gearbox that may cause you to stop and get stuck in gear, thus immobile, the Selespeed Gearbox, if it can, will default to neutral to prevent you from being unable to move the car.
But then it could have been anything. (Crystal ball can't see that far)
My 156 Wagon is my work vehicle, and also a Selespeed. In 4 years of ownership the only thing that has let me down is a dead Crank Angle Sensor. The Selespeed has been flawless.
Interesting - the injector warning light came on when it happened. When I handed it back I told the mechanics what had happened and they were going to check it out.
It was also making an awful rattle from under the floor at low revs, which they said was a buggered cat they hadn't bothered to replace.
I'd like to have a go in a TS with conventional 5sp and lowered suspension. They seem to wallow like a schooner in heavy seas on the factory set up, but the engine is brilliant.
Well when that particular cat disintegrates it has a tendency to completely block the exhaust like a potato up the tail pipe, so no wonder that it wouldn't go over 1000 RPM. ;D
All that aside - I've never had any of my Alfas with normal manual or Q-auto trannies suddenly prevent me from changing gear or rev without warning in the middle of the road. Except that pesky engine fire ....
So the exhaust's welded up again. Engine light's back on with the following codes.
P300 ignition failures (generic) - Signal low - Stored - Light ON
P301 Cylinder 1 ignition failures - Signal low - Stored - Light ON
Catalyser 1 - Signal high - Fatal - Light ON
Catalyser 2 - Signal high - Fatal - Light ON
How does one know what's causing what...?...
I might add you can't detect any of this going on while driving it around. If the engine light never came on, you wouldn't know anything was amiss.
Quote from: poohbah on November 12, 2019, 12:46:44 PM
All that aside - I've never had any of my Alfas with normal manual or Q-auto trannies suddenly prevent me from changing gear or rev without warning in the middle of the road. Except that pesky engine fire ....
Hey Pooh, you haven't upgraded to a 159 recently by any chance have you? ;)
https://www.pickles.com.au/damaged-salvage/item/-/details/C2008--Alfa-Romeo--159--Sedan/502487223 (https://www.pickles.com.au/damaged-salvage/item/-/details/C2008--Alfa-Romeo--159--Sedan/502487223)
;D
Not mine this time...
I'm trying to fit the gear engagement sensor on top of the actuator.
The electrical socket part of the sensor is not allowing me (by butting up against cylindrical sensor next to it ) to be able to locate the sensor over the spline top with the requisite quarter turn of preload
It simply won't slip on to the spline. I went to move the aforementioned cylindrical sensor next to it to create the room but sele oil (oil pressure sensor?) started leaking out of it so I VERY quickly re-tightened it.
So to be clear. The sensor does not align with the shaft/spline and it will not slip on. There's no way of twisting some preload onto it prior to slipping it on to the shaft that's obvious to me. I've also tried refitting the old ones and they won't go on either.
What am i missing here? It's supposed to be straight forward. I've already done the gear selection sensor on the rear which was a piece of cake despite warnings to the contrary.
Any assistance appreciated.
There's a knack. You have to sit it on the spline with the inner side down at a 45 degree angle allowing you enough room to rotate it while engaged on the spline.
See, easy. ;)
I had already tried what Bazz suggested and what he says is no doubt true despite my failure. And having been trying intermittently all day to slip it on, I think I may have burred the jaw openings enough to negate the chance of doing it the way he explained by late this afternoon.
So I removed the air valve thingy and it went straight on. Use an 11mm spanner; no need to remove the floating cap on top of it.
Air Valve thingy? ???
Floating Cap? ???
Yes I know Bazz...a supremely non-technical description. I've been finding the e-learn most frustrating to navigate...I'd much rather a good 'ole fashioned factory manual...IN BOOK FORM.
So what actually is it...whats it do? ;D
I would assume you're referring to a Electrovalve but the "Floating Cap" thing has me utterly bamboozled? :-\
On my car it's a cap, lightly crimped into a groove immediately above the 11mm hex; so it's not 'fixed' tight.
Perhaps it should be? That's how I found it... no wires to it...
WAIT A MINUTE!
Did you have the car in Neutral before trying to replace the engagement sensor?
The Engagement Sensor is the easy one, it's the Clutch Sensor (The one I replaced when you were here) that's the troublesome one.
Hence why I ask if you had it in neutral.
No. The car was not in neutral before starting the job.
ABSOLUTELY ENSURE that the car is in NEUTRAL before removing the battery to fit the gear engagement sensor!!
It's taken you 7 months to work this out? ???
;D ;D ;D
Haha. I was trawling back through the post looking for something else and discovered I hadn't confirmed that most important point. It actually deserves it's own post header.