Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Technical => 940 Series (Giulietta, Mito and 4C) => Topic started by: bcurko on June 13, 2019, 04:36:34 PM

Title: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 13, 2019, 04:36:34 PM
Hey guys,

Looks like my water pump has shit itself according to the mechanic, coolant reservoir was filled and then when I would stop the car after a drive it would look like I ran over someone..

Checked the hoses, resevoir but the issue seems to be the water pump.

Since I'm a novice when it comes to alfa's what's actually involved in the replacement because as of right now I've been told the following

(https://imgur.com/a/GKV9d5j)

$200-$300 for a genuine Alfa water pump from one of the melbourne stockists, Sydney didn't have any local stock + 4-5 hours labor (rough estimate) does the timing belt/chain have to be done at the same time?

Max otti in Leichardt quoted around $1100 all up but I would have to factor in the tow cost of $100-$300 from west to inner west so I went with my local.

Just want some input to know what to look out for and If I'm being taken for a ride..
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bazzbazz on June 13, 2019, 07:55:54 PM
Ok, as the water pump is also one of the pulleys in the timing belt system you have to get the timing belt off and back on, so 5 hours is correct.

As for cost of Genuine water pumps they can be had from Arese Spares (Cromer NSW 2099) for under $95.

www.aresespares.com.au (http://www.aresespares.com.au)

How long ago was the timing belt changed? They are due every 4 years (Recommended for Australian conditions) so if its been more than a couple of years you may as well get the Belt & Tensioner changed. It should cost nothing in labor extra to do the belt as well, just the cost of the parts.

WARNING - Unless your local mech is familiar with Alfas/Fiats and DOES have the correct timing tools to set the cam timing I advise to take it to someone who is/does.

$1100 for a pump change ? I need to double my prices then . . . . .  ???
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 14, 2019, 07:28:32 AM
Bazz,

Can you suggest anyone in Sydney ?

Feeling a bit uneasy and want to put a hold to the mechanic working on it since theyíre Alfa specialists.
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Colin Edwards on June 14, 2019, 08:00:47 AM
Had timing belt, tensioner and water pump replaced on our 2015 Giulietta QV recently as per Alfa's recommendation.  Not long after this the radiator sprung a leak - apparently this is not uncommon.  The way the coolant was splashed around, initially looked like new water pump had failed.  A simple pressure test and endoscope confirmed a dodgy radiator.  Worth a look? 

Definitely time to do a timing belt if the pump has failed.
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 14, 2019, 09:06:44 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but these are the parts I should be ordering:
https://www.aresespares.com.au/show/genuine-alfa-romeo-cam-belt-kit-71775896.html
https://www.aresespares.com.au/show/genuine-alfa-romeo-genuine-alfa-romeo-water-pump-60586222.html

Nothing else correct?
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bazzbazz on June 14, 2019, 09:22:31 AM
Yes, that's them. Only other item needed is coolant.

Before you order them, find someone to do the job first, some places are not comfortable with using parts supplied by customers, chain of warranty and so forth.
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 14, 2019, 09:44:50 AM
Yes, that's them. Only other item needed is coolant.

Before you order them, find someone to do the job first, some places are not comfortable with using parts supplied by customers, chain of warranty and so forth.

Spoke to Vlad from Arese and he suggested a mob in Rydalmere that have worked on his alfa's so i think I'll go with him, was also suggested to do the belts whilst the labor is being done so both timing belt/auxilllary since the car will be exposed.

Just need to find a tow company because I was told not to drive on it with the water pump failing due to the risk of damage with bearings?
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: CitroŽnbender on June 14, 2019, 10:18:14 AM
If the water pump is not yet making bearing noise, honestly you should be OK for a direct journey.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Sjrfm3SN/7-FA224-AB-6-C7-D-4-E33-BE2-A-2-D2-E6-E7-FA322.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Sjrfm3SN)

Leaking like this for twelve months, itís European aftermarket less than three years old. No bearing noise yet.
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bazzbazz on June 14, 2019, 12:33:15 PM
The problem is that yes, you could get there safely driving it, but as it is obviously on it way out it could also fail 100 yards out the driveway, or the usual place, in the middle of an intersection in peak hour!   ::)

Go on, tempt the Gods . . . . . I DARE YOU!   ;D
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Craig_m67 on June 14, 2019, 11:19:10 PM
If it fails, the issue will be larger than some bearings

Thereís a PDF somewhere of an Giulietta QV owner who caught his belt trying to shred itself, minutes after he realised the waterpump was no longer pumping and the car was about to overheat.

1. Pump bearing fails
2. Impeller breaks.. car starts to overheat
3. Pump wheel/cog shifts off axis (failed bearing)
4. Cam belt moves off axis and starts to shred itself on motor, mounts, anything
5. Belt breaks
6. Cams stop spinning
7. Valves stop moving in sync with pistons
8. Pistons ďinterfereĒ with valves bending them
9. If thereís enough force itís trasmitted down the piston/rod to the crank and a big end bearing can also be ruined
10. An expensive complete engine rebuild ensues in minutes, instead of just getting it towed


Get it towed
Make sure all the idlers are changed during the cambelt change and that your mech has the correct cam locks.
Your vacuum pump may leak oil after, if itís done properly.. white smoke will ensue.
Get them to check they refit it correctly



To be honest I didnít understand the diagnosis that led you/others to believe the pump has shat itself.. whatís actually happening again ?


Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Australia on June 15, 2019, 05:09:53 AM
Last year the water pump on  my SUV threw a bearing. This resulted in the relevant  belt coming off, which meant the pump stopped turning which meant the temperature was skyrocking up. And thete was no power steering.  Wirh plenty of stops I slowly managed to drive home. It was tough turning the wheel though. Got the car flat trayed to the dealer ( thank you prenium RACV membership).  Cost to fix $1000. Got the belt replaced at the same time as it was like 150, 000kms.
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: kaleuclint on June 15, 2019, 03:36:39 PM
If you are changing timing belt, tensioners and water pump, also make sure you get a metal impeller fitted.  Another thing to factor in is the plastic cover over the belts; they become brittle and disintegrate.  Might be worth adding given the sunk labour charge?

The good news is that with all this done you should be right for the next 4-5 years.
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: lombardi on June 16, 2019, 10:08:49 AM
Amico go directly to Stam At Alpha gamma service , he will come to u,  phone 0450912028 , i have mentioned my recommendation previously on this forum .  I was so fed up of being ripped off by so called specialists in syd was ready to give up on alfa ownership till i found Stam ,  newly arrived from Italy , speak slowly his english is not thge best but makes up for his workmanship and honesty..
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 22, 2019, 09:50:00 AM
Sorry guys, its been a less then ideal week, this is the video I managed to record before I left it at the mechanics to get sorted


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8a3M9ooOQU&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Craig_m67 on June 22, 2019, 01:54:28 PM
..... And I thought my high pressure fuel pump was loud (the ticking noise), crikey!
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bazzbazz on June 22, 2019, 03:23:25 PM
..... And I thought my high pressure fuel pump was loud (the ticking noise), crikey!

Told ya!  ;)
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Craig_m67 on June 22, 2019, 06:31:31 PM
I priced a replacement yesterday.... £497./

Pounds

Plus freight

I think theyíre having a giraffe

(Might take it apart and see why itís so noisey, what could possibly go wrong)
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bazzbazz on June 22, 2019, 07:12:05 PM
I priced a replacement yesterday.... £497.00

$915.00 . . . . Bargain!  ;)

Now you know why most people just let them be noisy.  ;D

Try Vlade at Arese, you' be surprised at some of the prices he can manage on certain items, can't hurt.

And yes, "what could possibly go wrong" . . . . I believe these were the exact words uttered by the captain of the Titanic moments after giving the order "Flank Speed Ahead!"   ::)
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 26, 2019, 06:20:21 PM
So it seems like we found the other source of the problem besides the water pump...

Mechanic and Vlad from Arese Spares have never heard of one of these going at 60,000km...




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Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Craig_m67 on June 26, 2019, 07:59:58 PM
I see an inlet manifold (I think)
What actually went?
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 26, 2019, 08:01:01 PM
So apparently the seals on the manifold, the manifold itself is cracked just canít see in that photo.

In addition to the water pump going... starting to think I am cursed with euro cars


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Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: CitroŽnbender on June 26, 2019, 10:27:55 PM
Unfortunate, for sure.

Any idea what promulgated the cracking? Has the car been hit or the engine out (misapplied forces for example).
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 26, 2019, 10:59:02 PM
No idea,

Mechanic never seen it happen on such a young engine, no previous hits either.

Iím the 2nd owner but no records of anything to cause the damage.

My father told me to call Alfa head office and discuss the abnormality but I figured itís going to be a waste of time, no warranty means Alfa probably couldnít care less.

Iím more worried that Iíve got a lemon and that this is just a warning of things to come now, itís left a bad taste in my mouth personally


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Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bazzbazz on June 26, 2019, 11:20:11 PM
Where was the manifold cracked?
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 26, 2019, 11:25:23 PM
Canít see it in the photo but left corner


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Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: kaleuclint on June 28, 2019, 09:45:22 AM
So much for the "bulletproof" reputation!
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 28, 2019, 09:52:52 AM
Well without Vlad from Arese helping me out with parts I would probably be put of pocket at least 2K in parts alone...

Mind you parts and labour atm Iím heading close to 2K anyways


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Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bazzbazz on June 28, 2019, 09:53:09 AM
So much for the "bulletproof" reputation!

What bullet proof reputation are we referring to?  ???
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Craig_m67 on June 28, 2019, 12:39:54 PM
Iíd be wanting to discern why it was ďgoingĒ

Has the mechanic suggested any failure analysis?
(The PO broke it when removing it to check or over tighten something else attached it) ;)

Any chance of a better picture of the crack, I have this model so interested to know any potential issues.  I canít for the life of me think why a static piece of plastic like an inlet manifold would crack unless something attached to it was loose, or buggered around with.
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: CitroŽnbender on June 28, 2019, 12:58:37 PM
Prying against the manifold to fit a belt or release a tensioner, could be one source of damage. Mis-supporting the motor when removing or refitting a gearbox, another.

There will surely be witness marks if itís not just a gorilla with a spanner.
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Craig_m67 on June 28, 2019, 03:16:22 PM
Prying against the manifold to fit a belt or release a tensioner, could be one source of damage. Mis-supporting the motor when removing or refitting a gearbox, another.

There will surely be witness marks if itís not just a gorilla with a spanner.

Thatís my thoughts too..
... which is not indicative of a lemon.

Just neglect and/or abuse by a ham fisted repairer.


Itíd be nice to see the crack in detail. I wouldnít be surprised if the crack couldnít be repaired, glued or filled either.. itís just a manifold after all, simply replacing it could be ruinou$


(I canít actually find the inlet manifold in ePer.. anybody know which bit itís listed under?)
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 28, 2019, 04:01:10 PM
Part number is 55259589 for the manifold :)

Look either way itís getting fixed not ideal but Iím not going to jump to conclusions and blame the mechanic because itís not my place.

Iíll try and get the old one so I can take more detailed photos and see if it shows sign of tools damaging the part..

Who knows, at this point I want to pay the bill and be back on the road plain and simple.

Taking it to Alfa Romeo in parramatta wouldíve bankrupt me..


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Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bazzbazz on June 28, 2019, 05:22:44 PM
Just out of curiosity, if the car was running fine, and the only problem was the leaking water pump, why was the Mech screwing around with the inlet manifold in the first place?  ???
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 28, 2019, 05:53:46 PM
So the water pump was replaced, as were all the belts since they were due and everyone advised me to do it since I was already paying for the labor.

Iíll get the manifold when my father goes to pick it up because heís curious to see the fail section as well.


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Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bazzbazz on June 28, 2019, 06:05:18 PM
Just out of curiosity, if the car was running fine, and the only problem was the leaking water pump, why was the Mech screwing around with the inlet manifold in the first place?  ???
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Mick A on June 29, 2019, 02:07:45 AM
Just out of curiosity, if the car was running fine, and the only problem was the leaking water pump, why was the Mech screwing around with the inlet manifold in the first place?  ???

I think it was just an assumption that the water pump was leaking based on the location of the visible water on the block, but maybe when they removed the mount bracket and were able to visually inspect the pump, they found the water was coming from higher up on the manifold and running down the block.

Just a guess.
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 29, 2019, 02:09:16 AM
Pretty much Mick is on the money, the water pump was due anyways so it wasnít a waste of time or costs...


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Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Craig_m67 on June 29, 2019, 10:52:07 AM
I think Mickís explanation is sound. 

Pain in the arse about the manifold
(For avoidance of doubt, I wasnít suggesting your mechanic broke it.. I know too many good mechanics to start flinging mud like that)
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on June 29, 2019, 10:53:31 AM
All good Craig, just didnít expect the bill to blow up so much, and itís kind of put me off doing any additional work to mine.

Was going to get a stage 1 tune and change the stereo for one with CarPlay but now Iím kind of on the fence


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Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Craig_m67 on June 30, 2019, 12:36:03 PM
Donít be.  I love my QV.

I canít bring myself to replace it currently because nothing else matches bang for buck.

It really is a seriously good car.  Iíve put 50K on mine over the last two years, reasonably trouble free (after we did the belts and maintenance that the previous owner ignored). 

Maybe a mapped petrol Stelvio when they get under $50k
(Iím not a sedan man, sorry Giulia)




https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Intake-Manifold-Original-Fiat-LANCIA-ALFA-ROMEO-Jeep-55259084/701842482
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bazzbazz on June 30, 2019, 02:29:54 PM
Donít be.  I love my QV.

I canít bring myself to replace it currently because nothing else matches bang for buck.

It really is a seriously good car.  Iíve put 50K on mine over the last two years, reasonably trouble free (after we did the belts and maintenance that the previous owner ignored). 

REALLY!!!!   ??? No, seriously . . . .REALLY!  ::)

(only Craig will get the meaning of this post)
Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: bcurko on July 04, 2019, 03:40:16 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190704/a4626d836c96c928a272410bc42a8a89.jpg)

As requested :)


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Title: Re: 2015 Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio Verde Guiletta water pump fail cost ?
Post by: Craig_m67 on July 04, 2019, 04:44:19 PM
Thatís just a pain.. I feel for you

So, from the first pic you posted... how did that rubber gasket that goes around the square channel actually work.  The one in the pic looks to long and doubles up or falls into the broken section?