I've decided to have a crack at replacing the lower wishbones (bushes worn out), never done this before.
I'll be replacing the front discs and pads at the same time.
Been looking at the auto doc video https://youtu.be/UpnP9e23PyQ
And he detaches the axle.
Alfa workshop's guide does not https://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_lower_156_wishbone.shtml
I'd prefer not to detach the axle - any advice gratefully appreciated.
Neil
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Just follow the Alfa workshop guide and you should be good. With the brake disc off it will be easier to get at the lower ball joint.
Just make sure you use quality name brand lower arms, cheap Chinese ones will strip out before you get the mounting bolts up to torque.
I bought the lower wishbones from EB spares, not the "genuine Alfa" ones but as they are from EB spares I assume they are fine.
I have everything "undone" now, and will start trying to extract the wishbone tomorrow.
It gunna be "a challenge"
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It's out! Had to take the sway bar bolts completely out (rather than "loosen")
Now to get the new one in(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190420/c799b46b3ec0a32dc79009f9eba6e819.jpg)
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Keen to know how you go with this as I'll be swapping out lower, uppers, swaybar links and tie rod ends soon!
Getting the two legs of the wishbone roughly into place, but can't get the ball joint in. Of course, it came out so must get in, but have now got an impact wrench to see if I can get the axle nut off.
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Grinding the socket down now to fit the nut, any tips on how to (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190421/1f398f6eb9bf113e6b3e5374bbd6f01c.jpg)release the tabs that lock the nut into place?
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Use a screwdriver of appropriate size and hammer it in into the slot to force out the "staked" portion.
Thanks, have worked the stakes out, but still grinding away on the socket.
Got a cordless impact wrench from SCA, hopefully it will have enough guts to get the nut off.
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Whats the max torque on the impact wrench?
It's a 18v cordless Rockwell from SCA - 380nm.
Haven't tried yet (more grinding of socket required)
If this doesn't do it maybe I should look at a breaker bar or a power impact bar - SCA have a Toledo rated up to 950 nm.
Got to get a good fit with the socket first.
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I use a 240V Impact Wrench with 400nm, and it gets the nut off every time, so hopefully yours will too.
Some progress, axles nuts removed (gotta get a bigger impact wrench.......), but still could not get the wishbone in, referred back to the autodoc video and decided the remove the shock tower fork too.
That worked great, wishbone in with moderate effort, a bit tricky to line up the bolt holes and very careful not to cross thread, but in with ball joint connected too.
Now the shock absorber fork is fighting a rear guard action and refusing to get back.
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So - did it eventually get back to where it once belonged?
Not yet, I'll have another crack tomorrow. Plan B is wishbone back out, refit fork, disconnect tie rod, then start again.
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Ahhh, you HAVE removed the lower shock fork from the shock absorber . . . . . haven't you? ???
Yep, I did
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So, it's in.
Fork stays in, control arm ball joint comes off.
Now to tighten everything up.
This is the best guide I found to follow.
https://youtu.be/tcH9YTyTwbM
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Hahahahah, I love his idea of what a "Tap" is when he's trying to loosen the lower wishbone ball joint.
Also, it shows why loosening the anti roll bar bolts makes things so much easier.
Yeah, I didn't need to tap the joint quite that hard.
Everything tightened up now but have found this plastic washer among the parts I took off.
Any thoughts on where it might belong?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190428/2dc1043289927ec4aa52f08ce9c9fec9.jpg)
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Is it plastic or more rubber/foam type composition?
Hard plastic
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Looks like one of the shims that go between the sub-frame and the chassis.
Do you know if the sub-frame has been removed/lowered at anytime in the past?
Has not been lowered.
I'll start on the RHS lower wishbone removal and see if the same part appears
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Don't ya just hate it when you have parts left over.
Well at least it will make both sides even at least. ;D
46515252, you say, Bazz?
Yeah, only thing i can think of it being.
Unless it's just some road flotsam that has just gotten flung up and caught up somewhere.
Thanks for updating us Campbelli, I feel like I might be sending you some questions in the next week or so when I do this myself!
You might find something like this handy, if you can borrow or hire. :)
https://www.makita.com.au/products/power-tools/platform/18v-18vx2-mobile/impact-wrenches/dtw1002z-18v-mobile-brushless-1-2-impact-wrench
Yep, you definitely need a decent impact wrench. I got the best I could at the time from SCA but less than 400 nm is not enough.
The other issue is an impact socket that either fits, or modified to fit.
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I'm planning on buying the Ryobi 18V Brushless one before I attempt this.
Also, did you apply grease to the bushes?
Nope, did not grease the bushes.
Is it recommended?
I thought lubrication was about squeaking, and rubber bushes were fine but poly bushes need lubrication?
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I'm not sure if the Ryobi is grunty enough. Maxes out at 280Nm according to the specs (I read owner's handbook, download link via Bunnies).
Nope, not a hope to get the Axle Nut off.
Is it just me, or have you found some rack bolts nearly so tight as the crank damper fixing?
Have seen them so tight that as the bolts were undone they tore the threads out of the rack! :o
So no, it's not just you.
Quote from: Citroënbender on April 30, 2019, 07:19:12 PM
I'm not sure if the Ryobi is grunty enough. Maxes out at 280Nm according to the specs (I read owner's handbook, download link via Bunnies).
Maybe hire one, kennards do a corded electric with 580 nm, that ought to do it
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Quote from: bazzbazz on April 30, 2019, 07:35:36 PM
Nope, not a hope to get the Axle Nut off.
Only realised after I wrote about the Ryobi that the hire one you mentioned was over 1000Nm! Kinda poops all over the Ryobi really.
My parts finally arrived today! Now to find a weekend free to actually do this.
Quote from: Campbeli on April 30, 2019, 03:26:05 PM
Nope, did not grease the bushes.
Is it recommended?
I thought lubrication was about squeaking, and rubber bushes were fine but poly bushes need lubrication?
Ah ok, I read somewhere that someone put grease on the bushes before tightening but that was probably the poly ones.
As indicated by Campbeli, polyurethane suspension bushings require lubrication/grease, whilst rubber bushings don’t. Found this comparison guide on pros and cons of suspension bushings at the following link
https://www.suspension.com/blog/rubber-v-polyurethane-suspension-bushings/
Quote from: bonno on May 01, 2019, 07:00:24 PM
As indicated by Campbeli, polyurethane suspension bushings require lubrication/grease, whilst rubber bushings don't. Found this comparison guide on pros and cons of suspension bushings at the following link
https://www.suspension.com/blog/rubber-v-polyurethane-suspension-bushings/
That's a great article!
Progress update. Both new wishbones are in! A few challenges which I'll get into later.
But as this was a wishbone, disc and pad changes, I've another question .
I disassembled the RHS first, and the new disc and pads have gone on without too much trouble.
But as I look at disassembling the LHS, it has no sensor special three pronged metal clip.
The new pads I bought from EB SPARES does have the sensor and clip.
Did I buy two LHS pad sets, or can I use these on the RHS and cut off the sensor cable ?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190512/d2d5a8830c2ad512388c5dae954c6261.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190512/1049090880c0e8b645f7558099b81b67.jpg)
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Ok, two things,
1/ There is only one brake pads sensor on the 147. On the side with no corresponding sensor lead from the car you can just pull the lead out of the matching brake pad.
2/ And in you first photo there you have the pads on the wrong side of the disc. The 3 bent metal tags that you see protruding out of the caliper in the photo are supposed to go on the other side and actually fit into the hollow of the brake piston.
Also don't forget to re-stake the hub nuts once you have torqued them up. And in the third pic you haven't re-attached the drop link either. Am just going by what i see in the photos.
Thanks Bazz bazz, rather important point #2. (Embarrassing[emoji15])
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Have not staked the hub nit but yet as my impact wrench is not as strong as Citroenbenders so it does not bring the nut back to the position is was before.
So I'm thinking about whether that is ok or I should get hold of a stronger impact wrench for the final tighten.
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Really needs to be set to the correct torque or at least back to the original position.
All coming together nicely.......and whilst making sure everything is tightened up I've managed to strip the nuts on the front connection point of the LHS wishbone . Grrrrr
Now I've gotta work out how to get those two bolts out of the stripped nuts, remove the wishbone (again), buy a new wishbone and do it all again.
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Just get slightly longer bolts and put a nut on top of the captive welded bolts and torque up.
I'd come at it a different way if the following is physically possible.
•Drill out the thread, do one bolt at a time
•Fit a socket head capscrew 10.9 grade or better, from the top, poking down
•Mark and trim length to be 1.5mm longer than needed for hardened steel washer and 10.9 rated Nyloc
•Be generous with waterproof grease, reassemble and torque up
Thanks for the advice gents.
Looks like for either method I'll need to drill out the captured nuts.
First step is to get the bolts out.
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Progress - got some high tensile bolts and lock nuts from cedrays and it seems to have worked - now for another careful tighten up(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190525/30153eb5e70e5fa69eecea209d2e52fb.jpg)
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That'll work just fine. :)
I've been doing this today, booked 3 hours at a place where I could rent a hoist, what an absolute **** of a job!
Got hub nut off fine with impact wrench, replaced inner and outer CV boots, swapped out top wishbone (turns out ball joint was buggered and was the cause of the clunking noise), new drop links went in fine but then we had to get the new lower wishbone on. Could not for the life of us get it in, then tried to put old one back in which was also a **** and ended stripping the threads off the bolts. Also managed to bugger the thread on the lower wishbone ball joint.
Ended up taking 7 hours and a tow to garage :(
Kay_147_GTA, did we remember to loosen off the anti-roll bar bolts fully before trying to fit the new lower arm? ;)
Kay_147_GTA - I feel your pain!
Did you strip the bolts only, or the nuts and aluminium blocks of the wishbone too?
I actually ordered a set of bolts from EB spares as I was going to use the longer rear one as a replacement for the middle sized one i stripped.
They have not come yet, and it looks like I won't need them, so if you do, send me a pm
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Citroenbender and BazzBazz, very grateful for your help and advice. Wheels on tomorrow and a test drive
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Quote from: bazzbazz on May 25, 2019, 08:05:37 PM
Did we remember to loosen off the anti-roll bar bolts fully before trying to fit the new lower arm? ;)
I took mine completely out for maximum movement - tricky to get back on though.
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Glad it's coming together.
I remember sweating and swearing many years back on my first serious suspension job - replacing the lower arms on my '64 Falcon; no chassis stands, sloping road, summer heat, all sorts of hair raising risks. Don't underrate your shady, dry, secure and level workspace. :)
@bazz no, didn't realise that, we also changed the inner and outer CV boots and the inner one that I ordered was wrong (it was the same as the inner) so spent a while chasing around to find the correct one. Mauceri motors happened to have one which was great but we ended up wasting a bunch of time getting that. As a result we were running short on time and failed to check videos / instructions
@campbelli we couldn't get new one so decided to put old one back on and that's the one we stripped the 2 short outer bolts on. Luckily the new arm is still good, will hopefully just need new bolts.
Ended up towing car to Mauceri motors, will get them to do the rest of the work tomorrow. I gave it a red hot go but was defeated in the end :(
Quote from: Kay_147_GTA on May 26, 2019, 05:38:43 PM
@bazz no, didn't realise that, we also changed the inner and outer CV boots and the inner one that I ordered was wrong (it was the same as the inner) so spent a while chasing around to find the correct one. Mauceri motors happened to have one which was great but we ended up wasting a bunch of time getting that. As a result we were running short on time and failed to check videos / instructions
Well at least you know where the problem was for next time. ;)
Quote from: Kay_147_Luckily the new arm is still good, will hopefully just need new bolts.
/quote]
Ok - so if you do need a set of bolts, let me know
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I think I will know my GTA inside and out soon lol
Thanks Campbell! Will see how I go tomoz and let you know how I go
Lower wishbone bolts have arrived. Thought I'd only ordered one set, actually two. So with postage it's was quite a hit at 90 quid!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190527/36296f67fcfcb7bd6e701d5bed889af6.jpg)
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Ouch! That's rubbing salt into your wounds.
I'll be sending them back for a refund
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Holy moly that's a lot of money for 8 bolts!
Yep, a rip off really. Even with full refund I'm well out of pocket from the courier charge. Lesson learned.
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So why didn't you just go down to your local bolt specialist and grab some?
I did in the end........but at the time I wasn't sure if I'd have the time to do that , so ordered from EB thinking that was a way to get the right grade bolt, etc.
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Kay_147_GTA, still wanna by those bolts? ;D
I'll paint them gold for you [emoji3]
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Quote from: bazzbazz on May 28, 2019, 06:14:59 PM
Kay_147_GTA, still wanna by those bolts? ;D
LOL! Not sure I can afford them now!
Fingers crossed I'll be getting my GTA back from Maureci Motors before Sat.
Could these bolts be one-off use, TTY fasteners?
It doesn't give angular torquing for them in eLearn, from memory.
https://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-resources/suspension/tty-fasteners/
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Quote from: Colin Edwards on May 30, 2019, 10:22:28 AM
Could these bolts be one-off use, TTY fasteners?
No, they are not.
Quote from: Campbeli on May 28, 2019, 04:04:27 PM
Yep, a rip off really. Even with full refund I'm well out of pocket from the courier charge. Lesson learned.
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I don't understand, didn't they tell you in advance how much they would cost?
(Are they OEM from Alfa?)
They are listed as 30 quid on their web site which i knew was expensive but I was getting desperate to finished the job, getting two sets was a misunderstanding and I didn't expect the courier fee to be so much.
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£24 for DHL airfreight from the UK to Aust., is super cheap (unless it took more than a week)
I'd don't say this to rub salt in the would, it's always a shock.. but that has to be the smallest DHL charge I've ever seen, probably the minimum.
You could always post them back, bend over as Aust.Post trial fits them for you though ;D
Quote from: Campbeli on May 30, 2019, 05:58:53 PM
They are listed as 30 quid on their web site which i knew was expensive but I was getting desperate to finished the job, getting two sets was a misunderstanding and I didn't expect the courier fee to be so much.
So, you're trying to tell me that you were desperate for them and no Aussie suppliers had any and none of the local bolt specialist suppliers had them, so you HAD to go to the UK for them? ???
I just thought at the time it was the most expedient way to get bolts of the right spec delivered without spending too much time on the problem.
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I'm with you Campbeli. Agree 100%
Using fasteners featuring the correct specification is critical. Even more so with regard to suspension. The zinc plating looks good. Using any old bolt that may not be plated can be very risky.
Used EB many times in the past. Their gear seems to be good quality at a reasonable price. They've been in business a fair while now!
Put a value on peace of mind?
I've now been running around in the 147 for a few weeks with new brakes pads and lower wishbones.
Much gratitude for all the advice received here.
Only trouble is the suspension squeak from the RHS. I thought the new bushes would fix that?
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I'm glad to hear most of it is good.
With the squeaking, I suggest a can of silicone spray, ideally with a straw nozzle. Pick on one component each time, and allow a bit of driving to spread the lubricant through. Work "upwards" through the suspension so that drips don't prejudice your accuracy.
I have to also admit the car feels fantastic with new control arms, I don't wince as I go over bumps / pot holes in anticipating of the crashing noises that follow any more. Now she just soaks them up like suspension is supposed to!
That suggests to me the front shocks are finished. Are they original?
Quote from: Citroënbender on June 27, 2019, 05:39:15 PM
That suggests to me the front shocks are finished. Are they original?
Agreed.
Quote from: bazzbazz on June 27, 2019, 07:27:20 PM
Quote from: Citroënbender on June 27, 2019, 05:39:15 PM
That suggests to me the front shocks are finished. Are they original?
Agreed.
Am I right that the "finished shocks" are mine? On account of the squeaky RHS ?
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I didn't understand (follow) either.
Why are we pronouncing the shocks "finished"?
(It'd be a good diagnosis to know, I think the GQV shocks are aged)
Sorry for the unclear comment, I was referring to Kay's car having shocks that no longer damped as designed.
If yours are stuffed it will be evidenced by grating the chin, even on gentle speed bumps or driveway slopes. Hopefully they're OK.
No grating, shocks seem fine now that all the bushes have been replaced.
I go over the same pot holes as before (there's a couple of horrid ones on Hotham Street ont eh way home from work) and there's now no crashing/banging noises.