Hi All
I have a strong smell of fuel around the car . I found fuel sitting in the white round quartered fitting on top of the pump. Any comments?
It's a common problem. You can get a new pump from eBay under $200, just make sure it is the correct one for your model and year.
Oh, and make sure you depressurise the system before you try to disconnect the old one, unless you want to go swimming in fuel, disconnect the battery before removing the fuel lines and have a fire extinguisher at hand.
Shane, I've had same issue with both my 156s. As bazz says you can buy a pump and replace it yourself. If you don't want to do it yourself, for roughly the same money, my local Alfa specialist was able to repair the leaking seal. It's such a common problem, he came up with a repair method to avoid having to replace the pump. He reckons its a lifetime fix, but it's only been two years so who knows!
Hi
If it was my car I would be replacing the pump, as the leak is the first sign of the pump beginning to fail. I would not like to be stranded somewhere for the sake of a failed pump were the cost and inconvenience can not be measured as simply $200.
Regards
bonno
Quote from: poohbah on May 14, 2017, 10:39:16 AM
It's such a common problem, he came up with a repair method to avoid having to replace the pump. He reckons its a lifetime fix, but it's only been two years so who knows!
Hang on a minute! I know the repair you are referring to and HE didn't come up with the idea, a certain knowledgeable and creative character on this forum came up with the idea several years ago!!!! 8)
;D
You and Leo can slug it out over intellectual property rights Bazz ;D
But the good news for Shane is that it can be fixed ... despite what I understand to be AR's "official" recommendation that the only option is replacement.
Thanks for the comments.It does not seem to be leaking around the seal , just in the quarted
section. The cheapest replacement eBay can come up with in Aus is $434.
Hi Shane1750
The first question I should have asked you in my earlier post, is how many K's have you got on your vehicle. If you have over 150K, then I suggest you are definitely approaching the end of its service life and pump needs to be replaced.
Regards
bonno
Quote from: shane1750 on May 14, 2017, 05:45:55 PM...The cheapest replacement eBay can come up with in Aus is $434.
Here's a Bosch, I found this company originally on Fleabay, but they have some good and some bad prices. This one seems priced right. :)
https://cars245.com/en/item/bosch-0580313076-fuel-feed-unit/
Shane,
Just confirming to you that it was the quartered section on top of the pump that was the source of both leaks in my 156s, and which was repaired (using plastiwelding I recall). I was talking about a leaky seal in a generic sense.
Thanks everyone
I bought a new pump from cars 245 in Latvia! Price quoted was $186 inc freight with DHL.
Just one problem its in US DOLLARS ! which I didn't find out till I pressed the go button.
Still $80 cheaper than buying in Australia.
Look below on topic 156 gta fuel smells. I have just been through all of this. The one with the 156 on fire.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As sort of mentioned above, be careful that you get the right pump for the car. There are two different ones used in the 156, essentially identical except for the diameter of the mounting / locking collar. Our 01 TS lists in various parts books as having the later sized collar but in fact had the early larger one. My suggestion is to get the actual part number off the top of yours and order to match rather than trusting a seller to supply the right one.
In our case the old pump was leaking and had been bodged once before through filling the top with epoxy. It was still leaking through - thus the replacement.
Pat
Quote from: psproule on May 25, 2017, 07:52:49 PM
In our case the old pump was leaking and had been bodged once before through filling the top with epoxy. It was still leaking through - thus the replacement.
Pat
I have successfully used this repair on 2 of my cars where the leak was a crack in the bottom of the square "Crown" section. the trick is you do not use normal Epoxy, you use JB Weld, it's a metal based Epoxy and sets to metal.
It is impervious to fuel, and strengthens and reinforces the whole crown area. The other trick to watch out for is that the pump head does not just crack here, it can crack anywhere in that pressure area of the pump head. Also the "Spigot" that the fuel line attaches to can crack at the base. In cases like those, it's time for a new pump.
My understanding:
JB Weld (and similar 'filled' epoxies) is not metal based, but epoxy based with a metallic filler (powder) mixed into it. It doesn't
become metal when it sets (if that's what you mean by "sets to metal"). It's still primarily a type of plastic, but harder and more abrasion resistant due to the embedded filler powder.
It doesn't adhere any more strongly than the unfilled epoxy base. Despite any higher hardness, tensile and shear strength probably won't be much if any different to that of the base epoxy. While it can be used to 'repair' metal objects, it should be kept in mind that the 'repair' will not be nearly as strong as the original metal, so it's usefulness is limited (sometimes useful, sometimes not, depending).
This isn't to say that it should be avoided. The increased hardness (over unfilled epoxy) can be a good thing. It tends to be less 'liquid' when still uncured, so tends to be more 'mouldable' than unfilled epoxy, and so can be more easily 'shaped' to fill gaps and provide strengthening thickness over something like a crack.
Last time I used it (filled epoxy) was to fill rough depressions on the end of a kart axle (corrosion damage on an axle that had been badly stored for a long time), for which purpose it has worked very well - keeping in mind that the location of the corrosion damage at the very end of the axle has no significant impact on the axle strength (but may have caused damage to the wheel hub if left rough).
I would say that the trick to fixing something like a fuel leak with epoxy is to make sure that the surfaces are very clean, and the surfaces roughened (sanded etc.) to provide a good physical 'key' for the epoxy to 'lock' into (a roughened surface will also effectively increase the surface area over a nominal area and so adhesion will be greater regardless of the 'key' effect). Building epoxy thickness over a crack will be a good thing, and a filled epoxy tends to help with this, though an epoxy putty may possibly be just as good...(?).
Regards,
John.
Quote from: bazzbazz on May 25, 2017, 11:02:25 PM
the trick is you do not use normal Epoxy, you use JB Weld, it's a metal based Epoxy and sets to metal.
John, I try to speak in a manner and use terms that the layman and non technical minded can come to grasp with, we are not all gifted rocket scientists! ( Even though I ACTUALLY AM!)
Being RAAF trained and spending most of my life working on the most technically sophisticated hardware of the time, I have qualifications in Aviation, Electronic, Mechanical & Chemical Engineering, so trust me, if I wanted to baffle, confuse & bewilder the people I am trying to help I could do so to a degree they'd end up in a straight jacket.
As for JB Weld, here's direct from their web page -
Q/ How can I remove J-B Weld after it is fully cured?
A/ When fully cured, J-B Weld can only be removed by grinding or filing it off, or by directly heating the product above the
600º maximum temperature threshold.
Q/ Is J-B Weld resistant to water and/or gasoline?
A/ When fully cured, J-B Weld is completely resistant to water, gasoline, and about every other petroleum product or
automotive chemical.
Check Six
Baz
Point taken Barry. I didn't expect that you didn't understand it, and that you were probably trying to keep it simple, but I suspect that this kind of simplification is often how misconceptions can begin, i.e. in this case that a product such as JB Weld somehow miraculously turns to contiguous metal when it cures, which of course it can't. Just trying to be clear.
A note about epoxies. There are a few different kinds with varying properties (don't ask, I'm not an expert on this). Using the wrong one in a given application can cause problems, an example would be Araldite which is a great glue, but one thing that it is not is water proof. Araldite will dissolve if soaked in water for any significant time, which is useful to know if the application involves water exposure, or you ever want to un-glue something that has been glued with it, i.e. just immerse it in water for a few days and it will come apart (worked for me a few times).
Regards,
John.
Hi Alfisti
My newly acquired 156 JTS also had a fuel leak when purchased a week or so back (fuel smell within cab on test drive) and this aspect was negotiated on with purchase price. Removed back seat to access fuel pump and confirmed it was leaking within the quartet fitting. I attempted to repair it, by first cleaning the surface and then using JB weld product, applying virtually the entire contents into the cavity, without success. A new Bosch electronic fuel pump was purchased via e-bay, for $290 AU (includes delivery). I am not driving my vehicle at the moment until fixed, as I am not prepared to take the risk of possible fire. Morale of the story here is if you have a fuel smell within the cabin more than likely the electronic fuel pump needs replacing not repairing (ASAP).
cheers
bonno