What batteries are people using in their Group S cars? Odyssee 680 is $300 with terminals and Fullriver HC-20, which appears to be similar is !128 (without terminals and I'm not sure where you get these parts)
Have used both, currently have Fullriver for a few years now and no issues if you don't drain it completely. If drained ie due to starter etc, do a full recharge and it is good again.
Thank you Neil.
I will add just to give a thumbs up to the Odyssey Batteries, I've had my PC680 mounted inside the car for 8 years now, and it's STILL going strong! I never charge it between races, so it sits for months at a time sometimes.
Fantastic value for money there!
-Mick
Thanks Mick. The Fullriver is less than half the cost of the Odyssey so while I know the Odysee is good, I can't see twice as much value so I think I will go for the Fullriver.
Nigel
Nigel,
You may want to look at a heavier duty version, the fullriver equivalent of Odyssey PC925.
It's a bit heavier but has much more capacity for those hard to start race car.
Mine is definitely hard to start at the moment with no engine under the bonnet but I aim to get it sorted in the next few months.
Nigel
Nigel,
Have you looked into those supposedly high energy, much lighter weight lithium ion batteries but lots more money? I have heard about them and people using them. Google gives me a few answer but something about for motorbikes only and not cars (ie not for high cranking) and something about no smart charging etc. Anyone with knowledge of this?
Neil
I have done the same as you Neil. - Google is my friend but it is hard to find real information that isn't written by some 19 year old boy racer with his 'riced' Subaru and milo-tin exhaust. The weight difference is phenomenal but I have never seen one in use in a track-car.
We ran Shorai Lithium Ion batteries in karting. Around 1/6th the mass of a similarly rated SLA battery but 5 x times the cost! After having an SLA fail while stting on pole position, we used Lithium Ions exclusively with absolutely zero failures. The SLA's eventually fall to pieces internally with no warning!
Need to run a "total loss" system - no charging / alternator or install a dc to dc converter / specialised Li Ion charger in the car (impractical on a kart). You can charge the battery between races or swap in a charged battery - we rotated four Li Ion batteries over a race weekend.
If the car is fuel injected you'll need around around 20A / hr. On carbies somewhere around 12A - 15A / hr. The CCA of Li Ions is prodigious. Need to make sure starter motor is 100%. We snapped a flawed starter motor shaft clean in half!
Colin.
Good one Colin.
Looked up Shorai, their biggest is 540CCA, wonder if this is enough vs 680CCA of Fullriver or Odyssey.
2kg vs 8kg. $128 vs $440. So there you go. $ vs weight. What would you choose. Pointy end, weight. BOG, $.
im using a lithium in my alfetta ts sprint car and its been fine, but it is the second one cause i let the first go flat too many times. now i just disconnect it if the cars parked up for more than a couple of days. its called a ssb powersport ultralite model: LFP30Q-BS weighs about 2kg has 540cca and is 100% waterproof costs 350 bucks at battery world campbellfield
www.ssbpowersport.com.au
The SSB Powersport range looks pretty good. My only concern is retaining the alternator based charging. Lithiums usually require significantly different charging architecture compared to the good old lead acid.
However SSB repeatedly claim their Lithiums are compatible with conventional car charging electricals so all should be ok.
Fitting a 2kg battery in lieu of relocating a 20kg to the boot seems to make more sense from a mass reduction / balance perspective. Probably fit one to the 75 when its due for a new battery.
Quote from: Neil Choi on April 20, 2017, 07:36:44 PM
Good one Colin.
Looked up Shorai, their biggest is 540CCA, wonder if this is enough vs 680CCA of Fullriver or Odyssey.
2kg vs 8kg. $128 vs $440. So there you go. $ vs weight. What would you choose. Pointy end, weight. BOG, $.
Neil,
Just don't eat breakfast and lunch the week before the event, will have same weight saving?
The SSB lithium batteries are very popular in dirtbikes, which usually run a stator for charging, without the greatest voltage regulation in the world. Very few problems reported with them, and supposedly don't lose charge over time unless there is a current draw on them. Recently fitted a 220CCA lithium to my KTM, 600grams as opposed to the 1.6kg of the 80CCA that came out of it. The weight wasn't the big factor in this case though, simply that the biggest capacity AGM battery that would physically fit in the battery holder was only 105CCA. KTM 2 stroke starters are somewhat marginal in their design, and benefit greatly from a bit more grunt from the battery to help their engagement. I'd have no hesitation fitting an SSB lithium to a racecar at this stage.
For what its worth, specs from: http://www.odysseybattery.com/extreme_battery_specs.aspx put the PC925 at 330CCA, and from http://www.fullriver.com/products/admin/upfile/HC20.pdf put the HC20 at 230CCA.
Which would make this: https://batteryspecialists.com.au/ssb-high-performance-12v-320cca-lithium-prismatic-motorbike-battery-compatible-with-see-item-details-section.html the logical equivalent model... Not so much of a price difference.
Of course, there are many more SSB batteries, they go up all the way to 1500CCA! With a price tag to match though....
Thank you everyone who contributed to this thread. I ended up buying the Fullriver equivalent of the Odyssey 680.
The car is currently at the mechanics having the new engine put together and installed. After five years of having the car ('79 GTV) stare at me every time I walked into the shed I decided to pay someone else to finish it off. I dismantled the existing engine down to every nut and bolt and thoroughly cleaned everything and it is now being re-born. It will have different cams from standard, new oil pump, chains, JE pistons, lightweight gudgeon pins, gapless rings, webber 45 carbies, extractors, mildly reworked head (stronger valve springs), re-mapped distributor etc etc.
Should be a hoot to drive and it will take about 4 weeks to do all the work. I have re-applied for my CAMS PCC Licence so I should be on the track well before the end of the year. I have re-joined Group S Association (watch for No. 29).
I am aware that there have been some changes to the regulations so I now have a HANS device and fireproof undies plus I have to put some of the FIA approved deformable roll-bar padding in the car to replace the 'noodles'. My helmet is still in-date (just) and my harness is also in-date.
Is there anything that I have missed?
Nigel