Hi All,
Just wanted to ask some advice. I am considering getting an Alfa and wanted to find out why the 147,s are so cheap here. I get that convertibles don't hold their values but what's up with 147's?
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Nothing wrong with the 147 at all, they're just not as popular as some of the other models. Like all Alfas they are a great car to drive and if serviced properly by an Alfa Romeo specialist workshop, they are very reliable. I had one for 3 years and aside from normal maintenance never had any major issues with it. Make sure you buy one which has a documented service history, preferably with receipts and you should be fine. Better still get one of our club sponsor workshops to check the car out prior to purchasing it. :)
Thanks Baldi,
I am using Tapatalk, is there specific thread with form sponsors details, searches reveal individual threads?
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If u can , buy manual , try and stay away from selespeed, can be problematic if u r unlucky
New to Alfa's so not up to speed on the terminology. What's Salespeed?
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Answering my own question, turns out there is a service providers tab under State Divisions tab :)
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Quote from: greasemeup on December 26, 2016, 04:57:31 PM
New to Alfa's so not up to speed on the terminology. What's Salespeed?
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Selespeed is a robotized manual gearbox. So it's not really an automatic and not really a manual. You shift through paddles and it's supposed to be more sporty. However they have a poor reputation in terms of reliability. I believe the earlier versions especially broke down a lot, but later versions were better.
I would just go manual though. It's the way an Alfa is supposed to be.
Thanks Thij,
(Try saying that three times fast:)
Your right, manual is definitely the way it's supposed to be. Alfa's tend to sound good that way too.
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Haha, yeah it's not the simplest of names. You pronounce it like the food. "Thai" and then just add an S. Or "Tyson" without the "on" part ;)
The reason the 147 is a bit cheaper is probably because it's a small hatchback and for Australian standards I think they're a bit too small. They were also a bit cheaper to purchase from new compared to other models in the Alfa range.
I looked at them but I sort of found two types of 147s. One being cars that were reasonably priced, but sold by people I didn't really trust. Namely young people that I just didn't get a good feeling from. First car, not really well versed in how to treat a car, that sort of thing. Or alternatively cars that looked like they had been treated well but were in 156 territory in terms of pricing.
Personally I would look for a manual GTA, keep it original and look after it well. I think their prices are pretty much bottoming out and in a couple of years when there aren't that many well looked after models available anymore I would expect you can sell it on with very little loss.
Hmmm, GTA..
I said to the man, "Are you trying to tempt me?
Because I come from the land of plenty."
I love the idea, there is just 1 for sale ATM for 8k. But I better keep my temptations where they belong, this car will be handed over to my daughter for her first car, better stick to a 2L methinks.
I tell ya, I had serious reservations about going Italian, but you guys have put my mind at ease, provided I take your advice and get a pre purchase inspection done by a specialist and use a specialist workshop for regular maintenance it should be a positive experience.
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Haha, yeah a GTA may not be the best idea for a first car. Good luck finding on finding the right 147 and do post some pictures when you get it.
If not mentioned before, the timing belts and changing at correct intervals is crucial for this model , many engines have gone to the scrap heap for lack of maintenance , just check but i think its 3 years or 60k , so use this as a bargaining tool to get the right price , i think to change by specialist is around $ 800 to a grand ..
Quotei think to change by specialist is around $ 800 to a grand
Assuming its same as for a 156, you're more likely looking at $1200-$1500 for cambelt depending on whether you have water pump changed as well.
Quote from: poohbah on December 28, 2016, 02:35:45 PM
Quotei think to change by specialist is around $ 800 to a grand
Assuming its same as for a 156, you're more likely looking at $1200-$1500 for cambelt depending on whether you have water pump changed as well.
Yes, that's about the right money, that's what it cost me last time.
Very good to know and good timing, there is one for sale in Victoria with 68000ks on it.
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OK, I can see that there is a BAZ who appears to do pre purchase inspections in Brisbane, is there a BAZ equivalent who can do one in Pascoevale VIC or a recommended workshop close by the seller, don't want to send him to Wadonga [emoji33]
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Seller tells me his brother was an Alfa tech and did all the maintenance for him, including timing belts 5000 ks ago, I don't suppose the seller or his brother is a member here?
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A tough time of the year to get Alfa's checked out at the moment, the usual Alfa workshops are off for the break.
Since in Pascoe vale, you should try Maranello Pur Sang (9386 9650), Bruno, long time life member of the club. But they are on their break until 9th Jan.
Or Hugh at Monza Motors in Bayswater.
Or Seby at Mauceri Motors in Clayton.
Thanks Neil, if memory serves you a president or the like of a local club, I will check it out if things go well with this purchase. Talk about involved..
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I don't want sound melodramatic, but be a little bit cautious with anyone who says their mate/relative is an Alfa specialist and did all the specified work, unless they have some documentation to support both claims. I speak from experience. Buying a car a while back, I was told the same thing by a seller as a reason there were no receipts for work he claimed had been done. Turned out it hadn't. It was a costly mistake (my fault) to take his word. Your guy is probably being honest, but better to be safe than sorry. Get it checked. I won't make the same mistake again. Hopefully your seller is a member on here and can confirm its all hunky dory.
I don't know why belt changes are so expensive. To by all replacement belts and water pump can. E done for under $500 and to change it all takes about an hour, I nad my belts done at an Alfa dealer and I asked them what it cost to replace a belt, got a price and then when they did it they doubled the price, I held them to original quote, but from then on I learnt to do it my self and not that hard as long as you mark everything
Quote from: poohbah on December 28, 2016, 10:00:41 PM
I don't want sound melodramatic, but be a little bit cautious with anyone who says their mate/relative is an Alfa specialist and did all the specified work, unless they have some documentation to support both claims. I speak from experience. Buying a car a while back, I was told the same thing by a seller as a reason there were no receipts for work he claimed had been done. Turned out it hadn't. It was a costly mistake (my fault) to take his word. Your guy is probably being honest, but better to be safe than sorry. Get it checked. I won't make the same mistake again. Hopefully your seller is a member on here and can confirm its all hunky dory.
This. Unless there's a receipt or other proof of the work actually being done I'm going to asume it isn't. That's not always because people want to screw you over, but some just don't know. My dad has a LR Defender and a while back it had with a cracked head. I got it fixed for him and he went on telling people it's now got a rebuilt engine. He doesn't mean any harm, he just doesn't know (he does now, I've set him straight ;) ).
Quote from: greasemeup on December 28, 2016, 09:09:19 PM
Thanks Neil, if memory serves you a president or the like of a local club, I will check it out if things go well with this purchase. Talk about involved..
Nope, not and never president, just with an Alfa in the club. You can check it out if you like.
Thanks fellas, I was on the verge of skipping the PPI until I read about the 60k requirement for a belt change elsewhere on the forum, which prompted the question to the seller, has it been done?
The car is at 68k. This revealed the answer yes but by my brother, which I assume means no recorded proof. Hence the PPI is back on, can an inspector tell if it's been done? What's with 3 years, does the rubber fail? I assume the engine isn't a 'non interference' type, are any Alfas?
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The 3 year change is for a reason, I presume they can get brittle, even if they are low mileage. Don't know if the hotter Australian climate might exacerbate the risk. But there are plenty of 156s and 147s with wrecked motors lying around the country to show the risk of failure is real!
Can't be checked unfortunately. You could take the valve cover off to get an idea, but I doubt they'll do that at the PPI and really just looking at it like that is not very accurate either. I believe PPI is more of a visual inspection, a readout and some simple mechanical checks, but really nothing inside the engine, transmission or differential. People had some PPIs done on my cars and they didn't even check compression or anything during those.
Thing with timing belts is that plenty come off looking just fine. They don't actually die at three years and a day. They will probably run for much longer without any issues. However, when they do go it's heaps more expensive than to replace just replace the belt every couple of years. The manufacturer feels safe to put the interval at three years for everyone. From people living in -40c to us with +40c. With people in stop and go traffic and people that do long stretches of highway.
Belts dry out and become brittle which could cause the belt to break. They can also stretch which causes your timing to be off or in really bad situations they can slip over the pulley. The handfull of belts I've seen were basically fine, only one was brittle but that one I had left on for much longer than the manufacturer suggested.
So yeah, it's a pain, but they need to be done and there's no way around it. The 159 has a chain instead of a belt however that stretches too (VAG had a lot of issues with this too). Really only my BMW did okay. It also had chain, but that only needed visual inspections every 200k and replacement at 400k <3
Sometimes mechanics write the mileage at which the belt/chain has been done on the block itself somewhere or there's a receipt for the parts (even if his brother did it, the parts still had to be paid for right?). You can have a look for those.
Honestly though, I always see motorcycles for sale around the 45k km mark because that's when the valves and some other stuff has to be done on most 4 cilinder bikes and people sell them on because they can't be bothered with it and then just stay quiet about it hoping the buyer isn't aware of it.
Just like with your car I would expect the seller to be quite forward about having spent a good amount of money on maintenance just a little while back. Even if you don't pay for labour it'll still be about 300-500 in parts depending on all that's been done. A good amount of money on a 5/6ich k car. So yeah, unless he has some confincing proof or if you just really trust the seller I would either skip on the car or push the price down a fair bit and have it done yourself.
Quotepush the price down a fair bit and have it done yourself
Great advice - I did exactly that when buying my current 156 earlier this year. It was already well priced for the condition and mileage, but was right on 3 year change date even though it was only about two thirds of the way on mileage. I told the seller how much that would cost, and said I would be prepared to pay his asking price less the cost of the belt change. Deal done.
Just don't forget to actually have the belt changed!
Quote from: Thijsvr on December 28, 2016, 11:52:36 PM. The 159 has a chain instead of a belt
Only the V6 has a chain.
Some members don't even drive their cars 10,000kms a year and to be safe get their belts changed every 2 years.
Quote from: As the day goes on December 29, 2016, 06:09:30 AM
Quote from: Thijsvr on December 28, 2016, 11:52:36 PM. The 159 has a chain instead of a belt
Only the V6 has a chain.
Some members don't even drive their cars 10,000kms a year and to be safe get their belts changed every 2 years.
2.2has a chain as well.
yeah forgot
Things have changed-
I pulled the pin on the Vic one, great value but a lot of hassle.
Found a nice Green on here in Brisbane, it has more k's 125k but 1 owner before the mechanic bought it, it has a full service history & he put new belts on the front & new tires. 3k with rego due in Feb. Should bring it home tomorrow :)
Thanks for all your advice fellas. I will post pictures and questions about lowering it soon [emoji855]
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Welcome aboard the Alfa World, as you will find, we're a strange lot, but that's half the fun, ain't it. ;)
Baz
Congrats!
Congratulations mate, I'm sure it will be a fun ride. And good call to go local with full history.
Coming back to the timing belt change , there is evidence that actually on occasions its not the belt that fails but actually the tensioners fail as they have plastic ball bearings , wether this prob as been solved dont know , as far as cost , quotes can vary depending on who u ask , its gold if u have an honest mechanic that charges accordingly
OMG, didn't happen.
The internet photo dream didn't meet the eyeball reality. I did take it for a little test drive and found the drive quite good. There seemed to be no mechanical issues, which was expected.
The paint had some deep scratches and a couple of small dents, which was all acceptable for the price, what let it down was the interior. A list of issues, top of the list was the passenger airbag cover that was propped but by no means secure in its opening, then the sunroof cover was simply not there, just the frame. The control for mirror adjustments was missing the knob. The door trim fabric was separating from the card. The central arm rest was broken and the cup holder was not staying in. The weirdest thing was some sort of gum build up on a lot of the small plastic trim, like someone had peeled off a cover.
That's OK, I have the patience to say no and keep an eye out for something acceptable.
Ho hum..
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Quote from: bazzbazz on December 29, 2016, 07:32:59 PM
Welcome aboard the Alfa World, as you will find, we're a strange lot, but that's half the fun, ain't it. ;)
Baz
Dude, I get it. I watched a colage of some weird sloth & model ads on YouTube the other day. Tripp much?
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Hang in there mate, plenty of 147s around for reasonable prices, so the right one will turn up eventually.
That said I really would also recommend you look at 156s, there are probably more of them available, and at good prices too (I bought my Series 1 V6 with red leather, lowered, and only 100,000km on clock for $3800 less than a year ago).
All the same things to look out for as the 147.
And if you do look at 156s, I really recommend you hang out for one that has the lowered suspension. Makes a massive difference to the way they look and handle. I am biased of course - I am onto my second 156 V6.
Also the lower they are the more impressive the spectical when they burn to the ground . . . . .WHAT! . . . . . . . . . .
Too soon? ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: greasemeup on December 30, 2016, 06:33:39 PM
The weirdest thing was some sort of gum build up on a lot of the small plastic trim, like someone had peeled off a cover.
No, that's a standard feature on most sun baked 156 & 147s, it's a rubber anti slip coating that just was never suited to the aussi environment.
I just clean it off and recoat with a couple of coats of satin black, good as new.
Baz
QuoteToo soon?
Nah, I was even laughing before the fire engine arrived. It was either that or cry...