Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

State Divisions => Victoria => Topic started by: dc_cudi on July 26, 2014, 11:33:35 PM

Title: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: dc_cudi on July 26, 2014, 11:33:35 PM
Hey,

Recently had a few issues with my 2007 alfa Gt 2.0 JTS therefore engine requires a rebuild. Problem was that the piston blew straight through the block. Probably due to actions of previous owner. Does anyone have any experience in engine rebuilds, is it better to try and patch things up or scrap it all together and put a new motor in? How much would a new engine cost? Any ideas of the best place to find a new or used engine?

Thanks
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: Craig_m67 on July 27, 2014, 09:45:19 AM
You won't be rebuilding it if something has exited the block!

Find a good second hand engine.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: Cool Jesus on July 27, 2014, 10:57:27 AM
Yeah I agree. It would be more cost effective to transplant another engine. I think I noticed a JTS recently on eBay for $1200. Not sure if terms were on exchange, if not you could then pull the dead engine apart for usable spares if not experience
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: colcol on July 27, 2014, 05:46:15 PM
dc, i notice that you are in Melbourne, contact Hugh Harrison at Monza Wreckers, [9720-4442], about a good second hand JTS motor, and before it goes in your car, put a new waterpump and timing kit in it, while the motor is out for good measure, the old motor is cactus, you get good second hand motors, cheaper than you will fix one for, Colin.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: dc_cudi on July 28, 2014, 12:12:21 AM
Thanks for the responses.

ATM seems as though there is the possibility to try and salvage parts of my engine or scrap it all together and replace it, just didn't know where to look for a good second hand engine.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: Mick A on July 28, 2014, 07:48:26 AM
As Colin said, Monza Motors in Bayswater. 9720 4442

I know for a fact they have a good S/H JTS motor there which you can have fitted on a changeover basis where they will get to keep the old motor.

Forget about the old motor, it isn't worth fixing if it's thrown a rod.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: dc_cudi on July 28, 2014, 10:45:11 AM
perfect, thanks, ill give them a call today to enquire.

Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: dc_cudi on July 28, 2014, 12:16:07 PM
this might seem like a really stupid question but would i have to get a JTS motor to replace it, or would i be able to get away with using a different alfa motor? as it seems as though the JTS motors are hard to come by.  thanks
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: Craig_m67 on July 28, 2014, 05:15:25 PM
It will take longer be harder and more expensive to fit anything else but the same motor (type) that your car currently has.   Just get the same motor (type) again and or scrap the car and start again.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: colcol on July 28, 2014, 05:45:09 PM
If you get a JTS Engine from Monza Motors, it will go straight in, if you get a Twin Spark motor, you will have to change all the computers and wiring looms and gearbox, as they are different.
For insurance and registration, it has to be the correct motor for that car as it has been Australian Design Rule compliant.
Have a look at the Blues Brother film from 1980, when the 74 Dodge 'throws a rod', it makes such a noise, Jake asks 'What the fu#k was that?', sorry about that, love the term 'thrown a rod', Colin.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: dc_cudi on July 30, 2014, 02:47:35 PM
So I need some advice. I bought my car for around 12k 9 months ago, 2007 gt 2.0 JTS, I've been quoted roughly 5-6K in order to replace the motor install it etc. what are peoples thoughts? I'm trying to figure out whether it's actually worth fixing. What would a car like mine be worth for parts? Thanks
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: colcol on July 30, 2014, 05:04:09 PM
If you are going to get a motor reconditioned, new pistons, rings, rebore, hone, etc then you are looking at a few thousand dollars, i would get a good secondhand motor with a warranty and have the wrecker put it in, so if it won't start or run then its their problem, get a firm price for supply and installation of motor.
If you have never changed a motor before, then i would pick something a bit easier to learn on, and if you put the motor in and it won't run, then its your problem.
These JTS and Twin Spark motors nip up bearings and throw rods out the side of blocks when you run them out of oil, check the oil level on a weekly basis, Colin.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: ANG156 on August 04, 2014, 08:35:22 PM
No point trying to turn it into a v6 when its not.

So you paid $12,000 for it 9 months ago. Add $6000 for an engine install and you are at $18000.

Try and sell it as is and you will be lucky to get $2000 IMO. JTS have no big brakes, less desired wheels etc so its not really worth someone buying it other than a wrecker but he will give you nothing for it.

That leaves you with two options -1) keep your car or 2) buy another car and keep the GT at home and part it out yourself to offset your cost.

Depending what cars you are into you will probably be looking at spending $10000 - $15000, this means you will have spent $22 - $27K in a year on two cars. You can offset the cost of this by wrecking your car but don't expect to get top dollar for parts as an independent. My theory is when wrecking one of your own cars is to accept a $10 loss and move stuff quickly rather than having it sit and wait for the extra dollars. Sounds bad but as a private guy its the way to go.

If you buy a new car then you still need to add service costs etc. Whereas if you fix yours then you could get all the cambelts changed, oil, auxiliary belts, tensioners etc practically all mechanically new. Buying another used car can also out you into the same situation.

BTW where did you buy your GT from and did you get it looked at pre-purchase or even once you bought it?
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: ANG156 on August 04, 2014, 08:39:14 PM
Quote from: colcol on July 30, 2014, 05:04:09 PM
These JTS and Twin Spark motors nip up bearings and throw rods out the side of blocks when you run them out of oil, check the oil level on a weekly basis, Colin.

Hence why I run good quality oil in my TS. Went to 2 Autobarns to buy 5 bottles of 10W60 Castrol Edge yesterday at 25% off retail -  that $20 saving per 5 litre. All stocked for a year for both me and my sisters car. Good oil is the key. My 156 200,000 kms and no camshaft wear whatsoever not to mention its a sillyspeed and I drive it like i stole it most off the time.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: colcol on August 04, 2014, 08:58:05 PM
The JTS motors are more prone to wearing out camshafts, due to the oil dilution problems these JTS motors suffer from, the twin spark motors don't have direct injection, therefor the oil stays cleaner, but both engines won't tolerate low engine oil levels.
If you have a JTS engine and do a lot of city driving, change the oil at 5,000klms.
Alfa Romeo recomend 10-40 for the twin spark and 10-60 for the JTS as the JTS has a different piston ring design, that burns a bit more oil.
The early JTS, like mine has 10-40 as the recomended oil, but a spate of engine failures made Alfa Romeo upspec the oil to 10-60, Colin.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: wankski on August 04, 2014, 10:04:20 PM
at the quoted costs - i don't think it's worth the repair - i'd part it out / scrap it and buy another car with the $5-6k

realistically, your car would be barely worth that once repaired anyway.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: ANG156 on August 04, 2014, 10:06:15 PM
Quote from: colcol on August 04, 2014, 08:58:05 PM
The JTS motors are more prone to wearing out camshafts, due to the oil dilution problems these JTS motors suffer from, the twin spark motors don't have direct injection, therefor the oil stays cleaner, but both engines won't tolerate low engine oil levels.
If you have a JTS engine and do a lot of city driving, change the oil at 5,000klms.
Alfa Romeo recomend 10-40 for the twin spark and 10-60 for the JTS as the JTS has a different piston ring design, that burns a bit more oil.
The early JTS, like mine has 10-40 as the recomended oil, but a spate of engine failures made Alfa Romeo upspec the oil to 10-60, Colin.

10w60 is also recommended for the twin spark in spirited use.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: ANG156 on August 04, 2014, 10:11:37 PM
Quote from: wankski on August 04, 2014, 10:04:20 PM
at the quoted costs - i don't think it's worth the repair - i'd part it out / scrap it and buy another car with the $5-6k

realistically, your car would be barely worth that once repaired anyway.

Thats also true. If you are happy with a 5-6k car then its not worth fixing, All depends on the person. If you are happy to drive a lower end car than the gt then don't repair. If you want a similar type of car and can afford it just buy another one. It all comes down to the $$$$ and whether you decide to keep the car or not once fixed.

I would be wrecking it at home to salvage some of the costs if you decide not to repair


Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: Mick A on August 04, 2014, 11:39:21 PM
I love how everyone just assumes this guy has a home workshop and the space and equipment and time and resources to part out a car. Maybe he isn't mechanically minded and isn't able to do this?

Get over yourselves!

He also has the option of FIXING the car. This is still cheaper than buying a new car.
Yes he will have spent a lot of money, but he will have a working car, and the car he obviously wants or he wouldn't have bought it in the first place.



Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: wankski on August 04, 2014, 11:57:34 PM
calm down.

not everyone has suggested that his only option is to dismantle it himself and part it out - he can seek to sell it as is... not the first time I've seen it on ebay or gumtree... approach euro/alfa dismantlers etc...

obviously he does have the option of fixing it - but he knows that! OP raised that option himself.

it may not necessarily be cheaper than fixing - heaps of good - modern alfas at that price point including facelift 156 JTSs... there are many options for the OP to consider.

He wisely sought advice, and the advice he has been given is not necessarily wrong due to your having an ostensibly different view.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: Mick A on August 05, 2014, 06:51:05 AM
Correct.

The "get over yourselves" comment was aimed at ANG156 for his "you have two options" advice. Which I believe to be bullshit.

My apologies I should have been more specific.

Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: ANG156 on August 05, 2014, 06:36:34 PM
Quote from: Choderboy on August 05, 2014, 06:51:05 AM
Correct.

The "get over yourselves" comment was aimed at ANG156 for his "you have two options" advice. Which I believe to be bullshit.

My apologies I should have been more specific.

Thanks for aiming that get over yourselves comment at me, Choderboy. I actually erred in my original post that the options should be keep and repair or 2) buy another car and wreck the GT (i have now amended the post). Small mistake which seems to have landed me in strife in your books. If you actually read my post it does illustrate to the original poster the cost benefits of repairing his car.

The sheer manner in which you have responded and directed that worthless comment to me demonstrates to all YOU lack internet forum ETIQUETTE to be part of this online community. I suggest that before you take a swipe at someone in the future you think twice and try and keep this place free from such negative comments. All the best mate and remember its just words.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: colcol on August 05, 2014, 08:07:43 PM
Personally speaking, i am old skool and beleive in fixing things, rather than throwing them away, the owner of the GT, which is a nice car should get a firm quote to see how much it would cost to put a good second hand JTS engine, with a warranty, i have trouble scrapping Alfa Romeo's as i love them so much!.
A secondhand GT has got to be more interesting than a second hand Hyundai, Colin.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: Mick A on August 05, 2014, 08:27:51 PM
Ok

I take your comments onboard and I agree with you.

I do lack what you call "forum etiquette".

My apologies for causing any offense.

-Mick
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: dc_cudi on August 05, 2014, 10:29:36 PM
Hey, im the owner of the GT, thanks for your input everyone. I understand how cars work etc but i have very little experience when it comes to fixing cars and i don't have the tools or the time to do it myself.  I am a uni student so obviously don't have a lot of money to play around with. ideally i would like to get the car fixed as its a great car and i love driving it (apart from when it blew up on the freeway).

Ive been quoted around 5400 to fix it, main sticking point is the cost of the second hand engine which is why the quote is so high.  most wreckers and second hand alfa part dealers are asking roughly 3k for a second hand engine generally 150,000 kms and above and refuse to provide any warranty on the engine, only have their word to go on.

Does anyone know of anyone that is wrecking a car with a JTS engine privately? I did find someone selling a great JTS engine the other day for 1k privately but they sold it before i had a chance to get it.

thanks
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: Mick A on August 06, 2014, 01:02:05 AM
Hello owner of the GT,

Yes you might find something on ebay or gumtree or something along those lines, and it will probably be a bit cheaper. But then you've still got to have it fitted, so you'll need to have a workshop do that if you aren't able to do it yourself as you mentioned. So the only hassle really will be getting it there.

The only thing is if a workshop fits the engine for you, since they didn't provide it they will not offer you a warranty on the engine, only the labour. But if you purchase the engine from a workshop that also fits it, then you will have a warranty on parts and labour.

Also if you buy a s/h motor, you would be silly not to put a new cam belt, balance shaft belt, idlers and tensioners on it. So there's about another $400/500 on bits.

Anyway, food for thought. Hope you get your car running again soon.

Cheers
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: dc_cudi on August 06, 2014, 10:25:10 AM
Hey mate,

Thanks for the response, I have a mechanic that I regularly go to and trust so I'd prefer he do the work rather than having another workshop doing it as I know he will only do what's necessary and not try and drive the price up. We have enquired about buying second hand engines off workshops and none would provide warranty on the engine as they say that there is the possibility that owner might run car low on oil or thrash it and they shouldn't be liable for that. Also workshops seem to mark up the price of a second hand engine considerably making the overall price of fix around 5400 (including timing belt, water pump etc), hence why I'm trying to find a private engine for under 2k to make the whole process more in line with what I can afford.
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: Craig_m67 on August 06, 2014, 02:55:22 PM
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/chadstone/cars-vans-utes/2004-alfa-romeo-gt-coupe-wrecking-lots-of-parts/1053353264

Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: ANG156 on August 06, 2014, 06:50:28 PM
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/rockingham/wrecking/alfa-romeo-156-sedan-2003-jts-wrecking-120-000-klms/1053248314
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: Craig_m67 on August 06, 2014, 07:08:21 PM
Quote from: ANG156 on August 06, 2014, 06:50:28 PM
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/rockingham/wrecking/alfa-romeo-156-sedan-2003-jts-wrecking-120-000-klms/1053248314

^that^

Check the engine type code. Have them do a compression test and let you know the details and get it bought and with a courier.  You only need the long block (engine minus any ancillaries). Fit new belts (and braces) and off you go.

Job done, NEXT!
Title: Re: Gt jts engine rebuild
Post by: Mick A on August 09, 2014, 07:22:33 AM
Quote from: dc_cudi on August 06, 2014, 10:25:10 AM
Also workshops seem to mark up the price of a second hand engine considerably making the overall price of fix around 5400 (including timing belt, water pump etc).

You would be a fool not to put in a new timing belt kit and clutch kit while it's all apart!

You'll save yourself a lot of money.