The Club Permit scheme, as it's existed since 2006 has enabled VicRoads and insurers to isolate a segment of users, catagorise them as low imapct - low risk and charge accordingly. Like many owners of Alfa Romeos and other notable historic vehicles I am grateful for the opportunity to indulge a passion of multiple vehicle ownership and enjoy significant cost savings under this arrangement.
What has become of concern to me is the type of vehicle I am now regularly encountering on club plates, coupled with the rate of uptake. We are now well past 34,000 vehicles.
Fully recognising that individuals attach emotion and passion differently I can't help but feel that the generosity of the scheme has encouraged increasing numbers of barely noteworthy and marginally roadworthy vehicles to jump onto the system.
Continuing as we are, I can see a time when these owners and their cub plated vehicles start figuring in accident and unregistered vehicle stats and the system is portrayed as a rort and dismembered.
Even with only a single vehicle on club plates I never come close to using 45 days, but with 90 on offer I can clearly see the temptation of "putiing the old shitbox/ 2nd car that only gets used on the weekends anyway because I have a company car or use public transport or ride my bike to work" etc onto the system and going for it.
Is it time for clubs in Victoria to make a collective, pre-emptive strike and set some standards that keep the system safe for dedicated enthusiasts by prioritising vehicles made in limited numbers and meeting a citeria well above "it once got a pink slip and I joined a club"?
I believe the arguement for categorising cars based on numbers made, standard of preparation, etc and restricting access to the Club Permit system is one that needs to be made. Maybe it should be 35 years before a Volvo 240 becomes eligable? or a BMC 1100, only if it can register a concourse score of xx. (Sorry, prejudices on display... but I did love my 240)
I would be interested in your views and for those of you on Club Plates, the numbers of days you completed in your last full log book.
For me
Car 1 17
Car 2 14
Good post.
I live in Bendigo and see all sorts of cars on club rego. Cars that would never be topic of conversation other than at the tyre place regarding "the cheapest tyres you've got". I prefer not to generalize the people doing it but it seems like, locally, they are all the older guys doing it, guessing +50.
There's even a 2.5l 75 kicking around with club rego that isn't mint, but it's not too bad either.
I have a mate with 7 rego's, not a single one one club yet but with 4 cars well worth club rego for track meets and the rare squirt on the roads. He talks about one day just converting all of them to club rego and living off club rego's to save a fortune.
Dad and I talk about putting our GTV and 75 on club rego, with plans to make both of them secondary/weekend driving cars. Dad being more likely to go through with it, regardless of loosing his 'CMY GTV' custom plates... Maybe the ever rising cost of rego [and living] will be the final straw with my partner, forcing me to go with club rego for a car that I plan to stop daily driving once I get my TS going. Hard to justify any excess cars with rego costing clear of $600 a year!
Maybe only offer to people who have a full rego already in their name, to stop people using club rego as a primary rego?
Even Commodore's are now of age to club reg but surprisingly I have only seen mint examples getting around with club plates.
I have recently put two cars on club permit. First is 34990 and one month later 36400. So that is about 1500 a month or possibly 18000 in the next 12 months. All good as long as not abused.then that is 18000 cars that would be lost forever if not kept as a daily.
Where do you believe I stand then? I own 3 Alfa's soon to be 4 when the 4c arrives and all three are fully registered.
I feel that I shouldn't club rego my 33 boxer as they made millions of them and it's not concourse but potentially I could because of age! My 4000k showroom brera s which has been garaged it's whole life and is strictly only driven on the rarest occasions costs me 750 a year on rego because it's not eligible because of age! Numbers wise the brera s is a rarer car than most aged Alfa's I see at shows and driven less too but she is still not eligible.
Maybe they need to drop the age restriction and go by import numbers and lower the amount of days and stricken up log books instead?
What do you think?
Well, there's a good point... IMO it should be unquestionable to club rego a car made in limited production numbers, regardless of year. Same goes with special imported models that never sold here. Models, not just a R33 Skyline with a special badge because it had foglights that Australian delivery Skyline never had...
I think a physical inspection by Vic Roads of Club Permit applicants to assess if a car is actually 'car show' quality and not some d-bag with a piece of crap Ford Laser.
I think you are stretching it a bit far if the car has to be 'show' quality. Many car enthusiasts have well worn drivers that proudly show their age and are original, not over restored. Just because they look a bit shabby doesn't mean they aren't mechanically well maintained. Roadworthiness needs to be paramount. Just because you think a '71 Corolla is a dime a dozen doesn't mean her owner loves her any less than you do your Alfas. The Vic scheme is verrry generous in terms of usage (this is coming from a jealous QLDer) and yes it should be well regulated. I think this could possibly come down to clubs doing an annual check of odo and road worthiness and any abuses result in permit being removed. I'd imagine this is a lot of work and would need to be a paid position covered by a small increase in the permit. Prob won't be long before all our cars are GPS tracked anyway to count the days used...
Just my opinion since nobody asked me! :P
oh and my Super which I haven't driven in 5 years is on full rego!
Funny, because I have a Ford laser hatchback around the corner from me on club reg :o
Show Quality doesn't cover all the reasons a car should be club rego'd though, it's more how the car is used that should govern application. But isn't that what your club is supposed to do for club rego? I have never applied so don't know the process.
Quote from: Derek Entesano on May 09, 2014, 09:03:00 AM
....Roadworthiness needs to be paramount. Just because you think a '71 Corolla is a dime a dozen doesn't mean her owner loves her any less than you do your Alfas.
My apologies. Absolutely right, that roadworthiness should be the main issue here :-\
BTW, how could you not love MY Alfa? ;)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10308171_10152391744026070_1277145411930128172_n.jpg)
My concern is that there is at least one club I know of in Melbourne that exists solely for compliance with the club permit. It has no meetings, no events and it borderlines on a scam in my opinion. The potential is that clubs like this one might enforce a tougher stance from VicRoads and a change in the rules.
I have my GTV on club rego in NSW.
Our system is that the car must be over 30 years and I have to take mine for a roadworthy inspection every year.
In Tassie we don't have a club rego system. Instead we have a SI (Special Interest system), whereby so long as your car is over 30 years old, and in road worthy/fair to good and beyond condition it can be registered on SI. You must have a fully registered vehicle, ie. car, ute, truck, bus, bike, scooter or whatever as well to qualify. You are restricted to 52 uses per year, and you must log details of use every time you use it. The cost is approx. 1/2 of normal car rego which is currently around $566 for 12 months for a 4 cyl car.
The point being there are a plethora of different types of Rego schemes around the country (and I havn't even discussed the SI Rally schemes), each have their benefits and downsides.
What would be really good would be if there could be a National scheme for registration of such classic/special interest or what ever type cars. But fat chance of that ever occurring given the state of State Politics and State's rights etc dominating and therefore the chance for agreement to occur.
Quote from: Joe Garra on May 09, 2014, 09:43:43 AM
My concern is that there is at least one club I know of in Melbourne that exists solely for compliance with the club permit. It has no meetings, no events and it borderlines on a scam in my opinion. The potential is that clubs like this one might enforce a tougher stance from VicRoads and a change in the rules.
I think this is the big problem with the Victorian system, it is up to the club to make sure that the cars their members have on club permits are roadworthy, which opens the scheme up for people to take advantage of this 'loophole'. The above example is clearly not meeting the purpose of the scheme and is a scam to get cheaper rego. I'm sure most legitimate clubs try to do the right thing. I wouldn't be surprised if a roadworthy check was a requirement for renewing permits in the near future...
Does VicRoads do checks on clubs to see if the cars they have permits for are actually roadworthy?
Quote from: shaggy on May 09, 2014, 01:46:16 PM
Does VicRoads do checks on clubs to see if the cars they have permits for are actually roadworthy?
Our Club (AROCA Victoria) requires a RWC when first applying for a Club Permit. From that point like any registered vehicle (Club Permit does not equal Registration), it is the owners responsibility to keep it in that road worthy state.
In my opinion, it is elitist to apply some sort of significance measure on the system.
Who has the right to say a 25+ year old Laser is any less important than a concourse 1969 GTV? There are a great many vehicles that hold a special place in lots of peoples hearts, that Laser may have been Aunt Betty's first car and was handed down to her nephew when she passed away.
Late last year, I visited the Motor Museum in Birdwood SA and saw a vast array of vehicles from Australian Society over the last 100 years. My personal favourites included a Ford Cortina Wagon, and a Leyland P76; as both vehicles were owned by my parents at some stage. Surely they are significant, and worthy of Club Registration???
If there are more accidents involving vehicles on Club Permits, surely the insurance component will get more expensive before they look to cancel the scheme. And, if these vehicles aren't road worthy, there would surely be a police focus on all vehicles with a Club Permit, before they look to cancel the scheme.
I've had 3 vehicles on Club Permits and never used more than the 45 days.
The next vehicle I'll be putting on the Club Permit scheme is a 1990 Subaru Sportswagon, there is definitely going to be someone out there who was conceived in the back of one of those ... Just hope it wasn't ours :)
Providing the Scheme rules are adhered to, I don't see the problem.
Disclaimer: No Aunt Betty's that I know of passed away ... just making a point.
Very much looking forward to putting my 1978 motorcycle that will probably be used once or twice a year onto club permit when its recommissioning is complete.
The way I see it, vehicles are checked for RWC only at registration in Victoria, whether on club permit or not. If there's a problem with roadworthiness then it extends well beyond the club permit system.
Maybe it's the qualifying period that's too soft? Is 25 years not long enough given the average age of the car fleet in Australia? In Germany, a 10 year old car is considered, well, old (youngtimer). Here that's not the case.
As for Breras qualifying, it amuses me when cars of that vintage line up at various 'classic car' shows when there are older and rarer cars parked outside in the street.
In Germany they have a wonderfully flexible registration beyond their "H" historic plates. There is the option of (renewable) short term registration; I am using this for a bike being kept in Germany. There is also seasonal registration which recognises that many cars and bikes aren't used during the winter months. Rather than offer pink custom plates with purple sparkles, it not surprising that those deep thinking Germans come up with more practical registration outcomes.
An apparent cut/paste from Vicroads a friend made on Facebook yesterday. I haven't read the meeting minutes yet...
""CHANGES TO CLUB PERMIT"
Here are some of the changes from todays meeting, a full statement will be issued by Vicroads in the coming weeks.
Club safety inspections are now limited to vehicles built prior to 1931. All cars post 1931, will now require a Road Worthy Certificate to qualify for a club permit.
Clubs we be required to photograph all vehicles applying for a club permit. These photographs will need to be kept with a copy of the application and made available to Vicroads if requested.
Modified vehicles which fall outside the scope of the VSI33 regulations, will now be required to obtain a permit with an "M" suffix. (ie 12345-M)
(It doesn't say a YEARLY Roadworthy is says a Roadworthy is now required for a Club permit, just like a car needs a Roadworthy for full reg)"
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Yarra-Valley-Chrome-Bumpers/210426505780333
More cut copy from this page which is the only page I found information on, linked from my friends post... Wonder why I can't find it on Vicroads website??
"As the other post has so many questions and comments here is a few facts based on the information we have so far.
1/ If your car is currently on Club Plates you will never be required to get a Roadworthy until you SELL the car, just like a car with normal rego.
2/ As of the 1st of September ALL cars will require a Roadworthy to get Club Plates."
"If you have a heavily modified vehicle a RWC is only part of the requirement to move to the new "M" plates you also need a VASS inspection (Engineers Report). It was also mentioned that reports done in the past may not be acceptable. This along with other planned future changes should really get things sorted and hopefully take the heat off those with Club Reg who have done things the right way.
Heavier scrutiny of the clubs on the scheme is also planned I reckon you'll see a few of these clubs mysteriously disappear just before this happens. The biggest thing is that there will be no real downside for the majority of Classic car owners. The changes are designed to weed out those who are stepping outside the guidelines. Congratulations and thanks to the AOMC for fighting the good fight on behalf of all Classic Car owners"
I'm still hunting for info from somewhere that isn't Facebook... But this is from a big club who has a massive portion of members on club rego.
Quote from: jazig.k on May 19, 2014, 09:24:22 AM
Club safety inspections are now limited to vehicles built prior to 1931. All cars post 1931, will now require a Road Worthy Certificate to qualify for a club permit.
Not surprising, our club had never taking the responsibility of such Club safety inspections, and left that to license Inspectors.
Quote from: jazig.k on May 19, 2014, 09:24:22 AM
Clubs we be required to photograph all vehicles applying for a club permit. These photographs will need to be kept with a copy of the application and made available to Vicroads if requested.
Good move, this will stop some folks getting one club permit and using it on multiple vehicles.
Quote from: jazig.k on May 19, 2014, 09:24:22 AM
Modified vehicles which fall outside the scope of the VSI33 regulations, will now be required to obtain a permit with an "M" suffix. (ie 12345-M)
I'll be keeping an eye out for a M plated vehicle. Not being familiar with VSI33 regulations, I'm curious what falls outside it, maybe a Alfetta GTV with a 24v 3.2?
Quote from: jazig.k on May 19, 2014, 10:10:02 AM
1/ If your car is currently on Club Plates you will never be required to get a Roadworthy until you SELL the car, just like a car with normal rego.
As a Club Permit isn't transferrable like normal Registration.
You would only have to get the RWC if that is what you as the seller agreed with the purchaser. It would allow the purchaser to put the vehicle on Club Permit (or normal Registration) straight away.
Remember that stamp duty/transfer fees are only payable when transferring a normally registered vehicle.
Quote from: jazig.k on May 19, 2014, 09:24:22 AM
Modified vehicles which fall outside the scope of the VSI33 regulations, will now be required to obtain a permit with an "M" suffix. (ie 12345-M)
I'll be keeping an eye out for a M plated vehicle. Not being familiar with VSI33 regulations, I'm curious what falls outside it, maybe a Alfetta GTV with a 24v 3.2?
I'm not sure what VSI33 is myself as I can't find it! The 'Modification Guide' is VSI8, which I would think the 'M' suffix would refer to. Maybe a new VSI chapter is on the way?
Quote from: Brad M on May 19, 2014, 10:24:52 AM
Quote from: jazig.k on May 19, 2014, 09:24:22 AM
Modified vehicles which fall outside the scope of the VSI33 regulations, will now be required to obtain a permit with an "M" suffix. (ie 12345-M)
I'll be keeping an eye out for a M plated vehicle. Not being familiar with VSI33 regulations, I'm curious what falls outside it, maybe a Alfetta GTV with a 24v 3.2?
Or a 105 with a twin spark??? ::)
In the UK they dont have club registration BUT when a car gets to 40 years old there are no registration costs. You must still have an annual MOT ( RWC ) and show a registration label. You then have unlimited use of your classic car
Summary of forthcoming changes to the Club Permit Scheme
As presented at a seminar for AOMC member clubs on 17th May 2014
http://aomc.asn.au/CPS%20changes%20Seminar%202014.pdf