Happy new year everyone.
This is for the GTV6 tragics, of which I'm one. Around 1989 I bought a split dash GTV6 in red with beige interior and sold it after our daughter was born in 1992. At that time the ARA dealer cards for each car were available and I was able to ascertain that mine was an '82 build and first registered to ARA, I think it was on the road test fleet. It had a sunroof.
Early this year I bought the '85 GTV6 pictured below. Ive been working bringing it up to scratch, currently the dash and sunvisors are out for reskinning.
Well, I've just bought another one, a split dash, red with grey velour, a very original car with 125k. This one is interesting, it is a February '82 build and does not have a sunroof. This is only the second GTV6 I've seen without one, the other was a private import. I was told that 50 split dash cars, presumably all 82 builds (?) were imported in one batch and sold in the first half of '83. All were red and had either beige or grey trim (?). Thereafter all the cars sold were the single piece dash cars.
Unfortunately, I have no early history for the car. Can anyone confirm or otherwise the above? and do the ARA cards survive?
(http://i43.tinypic.com/v76rfa.jpg)
John
Love the Alfetta body, hence my interest, looks to be in real good shape by the photo.
The split dash is new for me, do you have a pic? I believe the you have a better chance at finding hens teeth above ARA cards, however if you send a quick email the Alfa historica, Marco will get back to you very quickly with some relevant details. There's a sticky thread on gaining this info here
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=10324.0 (http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=10324.0)
Marco will give you the cars original specs along with dates and who purchased it (no doubt it will be ARA)
Oh yeah, welcome aboard too 8)
Hi John,
probably not much help but I have a gtv6 thats plate says 03/83 with no sunroof, grey interior, red paint and a split dash. I dont know much about the history except it was first sold here in 84.
Tim
Happy new year everyone!
Thanks Tim, that's interesting. If it's correct that only 50 or so split dashes were imported, I suspect they were all '82 builds and all red, mine is Feb '82. That makes two more two more delete sunroof cars than I knew existed before yesterday! My car is chassis 2026, making it the 26th '82 production RHD GTV6. What is yours?
John
I heard that when Alfa Romeo Australia closed down in 1992, all the records were thrown out, as no one wants to keep them, its like when a company goes broke, all the records are shredded, as no one is interested anymore, the spare parts were all auctioned off, leaving all pre 1992 Alfa Romeo owners up the creek without a paddle, Colin.
I bought one new from Frank Porter at Alfa city in September 1982. I recall the story at the time was a small number came into the country for homologation for Bathurst. I went down to the customs yard with Frank and had a quick "test drive" around the boundary roads and agreed to buy the car. Aus compliance hadn't been completed at that stage but thats another story. I sold that car after 3 or 4 years but my younger son who was about 4yo at the time of purchase must have absorbed the magic as he bought another '82 about 6 or 7 years ago and still has it. Both or there cars are red with grey velour and no sun roof.
The pic shows my sons GTV6 in my shed a couple of years ago
wow David that is a nice shed!!
GG mine is 03 2043
Hi Tim
Great to see such a nice looking early GTV6. There were quite a few brought in sans sunroof. As you say it wasn't the norm but if you wanted no roof you could get one all the way through the time they were sold in Australia. I myself had a 1986 registered one from 1999 to 2004.
By memory the split dash cars were sold right into 1983, although I guess they could have been some of the earlier imports. It sounds like you know your GTV6's well so probably know that this was linked to Alfa initially building all RHD cars with the split dash. Alfa GB kicked up such a stink, including creating their own local workaround, that in the end Alfa relented and started building them with straight dashes like the LHD cars. Otherwise it's quite probable that our cars would have had the split dash throughout production.
Thanks David and Alister. More information I wasn't aware of. Alister, is it correct then that '82 build LHD cars were single dash? I've always understood that the single piece dash came with the interior upgrade and applied to all Alfetta coupes.
When I bought my first split dash in '89 I hadn't seen another one and had not seen one since until the one I just purchased. So we can assume all the 82 build cars were red? Has anyone seen one that wasn't? Some came with sunroofs, some not and the trim was a mix of grey and beige.
I suspect that they were all produced in one batch with consecutive chassis numbers. Tim, I suspect your car is a March '82 build, the chassis number marks it in the same batch as mine. David, the chassis number of your son's car would be useful in verifying this. Has anyone heard any different to the number of 50 imports? My first car had no intrusion bars in the doors either and from memory no compliance plate. I pick up mine tomorrow and will post some photos.
I also understand the split dash cars also had smaller torsion bars, 19mm as opposed to the later cars 21 or 22mm?
Cheers
John
All LHD cars with plastic bumpers, including 1.6 and 2 litre ones as sold in Europe, had straight dashes.
In Australia there was a mix of colours for these early cars. Red, grey, and a few black. Perhaps your previous car was a UK spec one? A few of these apparently came here.
I purchase a new GTV 6 in the second-half of 1982 from car dealership Alec Mildren in Edgecliff NSW (see photos).
The car was red in colour with a black velour interior, had a split dash and did not have a sunroof.
I was told by the IMPORTER that 5 cars had been imported in one batch: one for the press, one for homologation purposes and three for racing. Within weeks of my purchase I met the owner of a second car from the batch, red with tan leather interior and sunroof, she lived two bays over and we became good friends.
Both cars were registered as 2 litres by the dealer as the 2.5 had not yet been homologated by the govt..
one more
last
I have a dealer bulletin on the early GTV6. It says that 37 split dash cars were imported into Australia from June 1982 until mid 1983.
Some of those cars (probably yours John) were built in December 1981.
These early cars had the same 23mm torsion bars but differed from later cars in having campagnolo wheels and different gearbox ratios.
1981 gearbox ratios were: 1st 3.5, 2nd 1.956, 3rd 1.345, 4th 1.026 and 5th 0.78.
Later cars had 1st 3.5, 2nd 1.956, 3rd 1.258, 4th 0.946 and 5th 0.78 (much maligned ratios). That makes 3rd and 4th closer to 2nd and a much better gearbox. It was a similar box to the 2.0 of 1981 that had 3.3, 1.956, 1.345, 1.026 and .083. Why they changed it is beyond reason.
But like many things on the GTV6 the gearbox was stronger than the 2.0 gearbox (wider stronger gears.)
The LHD cars always had the one piece dash from new. But all RHD markets had the split dash until 1983.
I have seen a charcoal (black) split dash car.
Great info guys. I had no idea so few that made it here had the split dash. Probably why it is so hard to find the circular hazard light button in good condition :-\
GG105, does your split-dash look like mine. Check whether the surface behind the stone -chip guards along the bottom of the doors and behind the rear wheels has been painted with tar, ditto for the inside of the spare wheel housing. Is your antenna on the driver or passenger side?
I'd love to say that you have an ultra rare split dash GTV6 (true in some ways) and getting a circular hazard light button is so hard.....
But the reality of the situation is this.
Alfa released the new LHD GTV6 in 1981 and the RHD GTV6 came as an after thought. So when Britain and all the other RHD markets demanded the car, all Alfa did was put the RHD GTV6 down the production line with any parts that happened to be available at the time.
The split dash GTV6 is simply a GTV6 with a 2.0 litre four cylinder instrument panel and interior. Compare the 81/82 2.0 litre and GTV6 and they are identical internally.
In Australia the single piece dash is often referred to as the GTV6 dash that the early cars missed out on.
And some early cars have been converted to the GTV6 dash.........
So finding a circular hazard light button is super easy, just ask for a 2.0 litre four hazard button. Far more 2.0 fours were made than the GTV6.....
:-[ thanks. should have had a look to see if others were the same.
Thanks for the information guys, there is more to this than I realised. Alister in an earlier post referred to an interim UK dash work around. I was looking at some pictures and at first I wondered if someone had cobbled up their own dash, then I stumbled over Alister's post on the Alfa BB, my thanks Alister. Here is the interim UK only dash:
(http://i41.tinypic.com/8x8w8x.jpg)
Picked up my car today. 125k looks and feels correct, cambelt, tensioner and water pump done a year ago. Drives really well. Other than the stupid looking, but superb sounding, sound system, it is stock. Body is excellent, one rust spot in the driver's door, paint and trim very good. Mechanically, it needs some attention. Tappets are noisy, probably worn exhaust cams and lifters, a/c doesn't work (not much use when it does), clutch worn and gear linkage bushes need attention. Synchros seem okay, oil pressure gauge not working properly - I hope! Although this car has the build plate, it does not have a compliance plate, my first split dash car didn't either. Anyone else not have one? Here are a few photos:
(http://i39.tinypic.com/ngqddz.jpg)
Has later grille, I'll swap for an earlier one in excellent condition. Tyres are one size too large.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2u8i7vr.jpg)
Dash isn't cracked, has the correct light coloured wheel
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2zhkxua.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/rh1q39.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2m48tbt.jpg)
Wrong cam covers, engine bay untidy, still has the plastic expansion tank
(http://i42.tinypic.com/5wmqkl.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/ojij54.jpg)
Bit untidy in here, I need the plastic battery cover, some genius split the fuel filler pipe when putting the LR speaker in so stinks of fuel when full
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2njyfwm.jpg)
Correct early Campy wheels, later wheels have a sharp rim where the spokes start. Wheels need refinishing
John
Looks nice John. Congratulations.
No problem on the other info. I loved in the UK in 1981-2 and took an interest in the GTV6 as it was released. I saw my first one at a dealer on the Champs Élysées and still have the brochure I picked up there, in French of course. They were always available in the UK, just with the original and interim dashes.
To be fully correct your car shouldn't have the rubbing strip on the sides. That was a later addition, first with the charcoal paint underneath as Ian says and from late '85 with body colour throughout like yours.
Wish mine was in good a nick as yours. Needs lots of TLC that it will get eventually. Alister is right on the rubbing strip. Should be as per David Mills and Kartone's pictures. Shouldn't have the left mirror either. On GTV6s, the cars only had a driver's side mirror unless you went for the sun roof option. Then it got a passenger's mirror. How silly is that. But true I believe!
Kartone, the tar has been added later as a rust proofing measure. All those areas on my car are red (and rusty). My car has a centre / front radio antenna as per British (and South African) cars I have seen pictures of.
Thanks fellas. I was aware of the rubbing strip but forgot to mention it. I've been detailing it today, the rubbing strips are held on with tape so removing them shouldn't be an issue, if I decide to.
Ian, I just checked a photo of my first car, which had a sunroof and didn't have a passenger side mirror, clearly the only consistent thing with these cars is inconsistency!
I'm using Meguiars compound by hand to take the bloom out of the paint, its coming up a treat.
I found some photos of my first car with the 2 litre it replaced, i'll scan and post them.
John.
John,
Could you post a picture of your head lining please. My car has the some colour interior but the head lining has been described by Alfa guys as unusual. Everything about these cars is unusual.
Love to see what your headlining looks like.
Regards
Ian
Shall do Ian, its the same as the 2 litre cars. I'll post a photo tomorrow.
Spent all day cutting and polishing, she came up a treat. Looks like I fell for the old "make sure you hear it started from cold trick". I didn't before I bought it, but today I did. Reluctant to idle after starting and then hunts until warm. Same problem I had with the '85. Looks like I need yet another Auxiliary Air Valve and Thermo Time Switch.
I wonder what oil is in it, quiet when cold and then tappety when warm. I strongly suspect the exhaust cam lobes and lifters are shot, the usual problem with these. We'll see.
Front inner guard splash covers are both rusted at the bottom, I'll pull them off tomorrow to investigate. I also need to clean up the battery box. Looks like the left rear tail light was leaking with the water running into the battery box.
Here are a couple of pics, doesn't really look any different in the photos to yesterdays, sure looks different in the flesh though, particularly those rubbish side window surrounds.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/ofsxvl.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2hckn15.jpg)
John
Congrats, great looker, sure this was the one on car sales located in the eastern suburbs priced around the 7k mark, remember the funny comment he put on stating it was priced not to stay on car sales for to long,think he was refering to in particulAR THE GRAND PRIX FOR 35K. SOUNDS LIKE U HAVE A BIT OF WORK GETTING UP TO SHAPE mechanically,thats part of the fun i guess.regards
Ian,
Here are the headlining shots you asked for.
(http://i43.tinypic.com/5md4pz.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/sg01eq.jpg)
John
Spotted on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Alfa-Romeo-Alfetta-Saloon-Dash-/131071560668?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e84794bdc&_uhb=1
I'm definitely not suggesting anyone buy it, it's just amusing to see one of these dash's for sale. Wonder how rare that is!
The grille badge is easy to change. No need to change grill just pull off the larger badge and its surround revealing the space gorgeous the smaller badge!
Thanks for that. Identical to mine.
Why do you think your car was built in February 1982?
Is there a build plate on it.
Also, my car never had a compliance plate.
Regards
Ian
Ian, my car has a build plate on the near side inner guard, your chassis no confirms this as a bit later than mine.
I don't know how ARA achieved this, however, I'm willing to speculate that none of the split dash cars have compliance plates. I know they don't have side intrusion bars. Might make it a bit tricky if someone tries to re-register one if these. Ross Hosking who used to work at ARA might be able to throw some light on this, but I haven't spoken to him for over 20 years.
John
The two then brand new 2.5s I mentioned above were registered by the IMPORTER as 2 litres, I therefore doubt the authorities ever saw the vehicles ;D
I bought mine in Sydney. Had to reregister it in Victoria. Wasn't a problem. It was first registered in Melbourne and they had a record of the car.
Rego went straight through.
Ian
@Kartone
I just checked the rego on my car and sure enough it's registered as a two litre as well. Thanks for that ;D So it appears that the split dash cars were not homologated for Oz, they were probably all standard Euro spec mechanically and otherwise as delivered to the UK, dash aside (did all GTV6s have a/c?) Which is why they don't have compliance plates. I guess with factory decision to produce RHD single piece dash cars in 83, ARA figured it wasn't worth complying this batch, better to do on the model that would be sold in greater numbers.
I assume therefore, that there are some mechanical differences between the two series other than the gearbox ratios Alister mentioned. Can anyone throw any light on this?
John
GG105, mine and my friend's in 1982 both had AC (York compressor).
The tar job I mentioned was done by me on my Alfa as I realized fine silt was caking behind the plastic stone guards.
The set of car keys included one for the ignition switch, a second for the doors and a third for the antenna :o
Wow! Some conflicting information but a dam good read, the truth lies in there somewhere!
John, I do not know what rust may or may not lurk underneath there, but from your shots that would have to be one of the best condition GTV6 split dashes I have ever seen, maybe I am too used to all of the 1982 1983 GTV 2.0s I have purchased, we all know the state some of them get too, after 10 owners and the last one driving it to death
Kartone, love that first photo, what a time warp!
One thing that interested me in all the comments was that of UK spec GTV6s, some brought here, I have always wondered and still waiting for someone to shed the light......
My 1985 GTV6 is factory black, nero metallic, sort of a gunmetal in the full light and changes to a darker black as the light fades, seen plenty of them in photos overseas, but never of one in Australia, it is Australian complianced not a private import, please do not get this confused with the 1982 1983 2.0 Strada Gunmetal colour, it is not that, close but not, do I have the only factory black complete dash in Australia?
When I purchased it in Sydney, the owner had changed his mind about a restoration after pulling the motor out, it had a registration sticker from Victoria, so I would assume it came from Victoria but it could have been sold in any state I guess, it has the cream Recaro interior not the black, my experience with GTV6 complete dash models in Australia is they are either red, white or silver in colour, anyone with information? Could this be a UK spec as someone mentioned?
Veesix,
Love to see some photos of your car, how about posting some? I've never seen a black car, as you state all Oz cars were red, white or silver. I'm going to speculate your car was special order, might be worth checking Motor Show pics. Does it have the isostatic gearbox?
These cars are so much harder to maintain and restore than earlier and later Alfas, mainly because of the crap plastic bits and interior. They are worth nothing and are so are not worth restoring, they may never be. In stock form they ride softly, understeer and don't turn in like a 105. Most survivors have not been looked after and they aren't very quick, hence the 3 litre conversions, and they are still being converted into race cars.
But....that little 2.5. If any engine could ever be said to talk and sing, surely this is it, no other engine in the world sounds like it, I guess that's why we put up with the rest.
It would be nice to know how many of the split dash cars survive. A register?
Regards
John
Quote from: kartone on January 01, 2014, 09:30:21 PM
I purchase a new GTV 6 in the second-half of 1982 from car dealership Alec Mildren in Edgecliff NSW (see photos).
The car was red in colour with a black velour interior, had a split dash and did not have a sunroof.
I was told by the IMPORTER that 5 cars had been imported in one batch: one for the press, one for homologation purposes and three for racing. Within weeks of my purchase I met the owner of a second car from the batch, red with tan leather interior and sunroof, she lived two bays over and we became good friends.
Both cars were registered as 2 litres by the dealer as the 2.5 had not yet been homologated by the govt..
I'm a bit late to this thread, but it is all very interesting.
The press GTV6, which I think from memory was registered LSV618 (NSW rego) was featured in road tests in Wheel magazine among others. This car became the Ray Gulson GTV6 racer, originally in Group C guise but later in Group A spec in which it remains today in Dulux colours. I'm not sure whether it is still owned by Scott Farquaharson or not.
I don't believe that any other of these five cars were for racing, as the Gary Leggatt GTV6 (it practiced with both the 4 and the V6) that was destroyed at Bathurst in 82 was definitely a 2 Litre - infact there is conjecture as to whether it started out as a Nuovo or was a steel bumper car. (It still had flipper quarter windows.)
I do recall an early 1982 GTV6 owned by a former AROCA NSW club president and life member that was silver and had a sunroof. I don't know whether that was part of the 37 imported by ARA or a private British import.
QuoteThis car became the Ray Gulson GTV6 racer, originally in Group C guise but later in Group A spec in which it remains today in Dulux colours. I'm not sure whether it is still owned by Scott Farquaharson or not.
Here's a clip of Scott at the wheel at Philip Island about 10 years ago , it has been posted many times before , but sure worth a look if you haven't seen it before. It certainly shows how competitive the GTV6 was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21ynORNKxZs
I am sure Scott still frequents the forum and is around, but he still has the Dulux car.
Paul Newby,
the importer, then located in Botany NSW, told me when I purchased the car that it was one of three destined for racing. The story goes that two had buyers for racing, while the third was owned by the importer and agreed as spare for the racers; the spare car did not arrive on time and the two racers refused to take delivery of the two cars destined for them.
Quote from: kartone on January 22, 2014, 01:31:53 PM
Paul Newby,
the importer, then located in Botany NSW, told me when I purchased the car that it was one of three destined for racing. The story goes that two had buyers for racing, while the third was owned by the importer and agreed as spare for the racers; the spare car did not arrive on time and the two racers refused to take delivery of the two cars destined for them.
Thanks Kartone, that is very interesting and something I didn't know. I wonder who the other two racers were?
I suspect one would have been destined for Brian Foley, who sponsored the existing Leggatt/McDonnell GTV that was destroyed in practice for the 82 Bathurst 1000. At the time of the crash it had the 2.0 engine in it but it had been practicing with the 2.5 V6, which was problematic hence the swap back to the 2.0. I wonder how they sourced the V6? I imagine a spare V6 engine would have been pretty difficult to acquire (unless you had access to another car...?)
Maybe the other GTV6 was destined for the Benincas with Frank Porter driving perhaps?
Kartone,
What is the chassis no and build date of your car?
regards
John
GG105, the only documentation I have left is the registration number you see on NSW plate.
I went into the vault and found some photos of my first GTV6 I bought to replace my GTV4. This GTV6 had a beige interior, which I hated because the 4 had the grey, sunroof and no passenger side mirror. I had put a passenger mirror on the 4 at vast expense, only to find out I couldn't see out of it. Fast forward to 2014, both GTV6s have passenger side mirrors and I can't see out of them either!
Here they are together and at Amaroo at an AROCA Supersprint. I think it was 1989, the 2 litre was my first Alfa. I remember the Supersprint well. I'd never been on a track before, couldn't heel and toe and so was worried about blowing up the gearbox. As for lines, I had enough on my plate without worrying about them....
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2d9v7z9.jpg)
John
Quote from: Paul Newby on January 23, 2014, 04:55:40 PM
Quote from: kartone on January 22, 2014, 01:31:53 PM
Paul Newby,
Maybe the other GTV6 was destined for the Benincas with Frank Porter driving perhaps?
After I bought my GTV6 (see post #5 above) I proudly turned up to Benincas for the first service expecting to surprise. However, Joe casually pointed to a brand new GTV6 motor sitting on the floor saying something like "we have got that to see what we can do with it".
Quote from: VeeSix on January 20, 2014, 12:47:41 PM
Wow! Some conflicting information but a dam good read, the truth lies in there somewhere!
John, I do not know what rust may or may not lurk underneath there, but from your shots that would have to be one of the best condition GTV6 split dashes I have ever seen, maybe I am too used to all of the 1982 1983 GTV 2.0s I have purchased, we all know the state some of them get too, after 10 owners and the last one driving it to death
Kartone, love that first photo, what a time warp!
One thing that interested me in all the comments was that of UK spec GTV6s, some brought here, I have always wondered and still waiting for someone to shed the light......
My 1985 GTV6 is factory black, nero metallic, sort of a gunmetal in the full light and changes to a darker black as the light fades, seen plenty of them in photos overseas, but never of one in Australia, it is Australian complianced not a private import, please do not get this confused with the 1982 1983 2.0 Strada Gunmetal colour, it is not that, close but not, do I have the only factory black complete dash in Australia?
When I purchased it in Sydney, the owner had changed his mind about a restoration after pulling the motor out, it had a registration sticker from Victoria, so I would assume it came from Victoria but it could have been sold in any state I guess, it has the cream Recaro interior not the black, my experience with GTV6 complete dash models in Australia is they are either red, white or silver in colour, anyone with information? Could this be a UK spec as someone mentioned?
VeeSix, I have been wasting time surfing info on GTV6s and came across this '85 Special Edition called the Black Jack, that I'd never heard of. It seems to fit the description of your car? An enquiry of Marco Fazio might reveal. Here is a link.
http://www.webalice.it/alexdalex/officialwebsite/gtv6bj.html
Regards
John
Thankyou John, yes that looks to be the colour, obviously mine is right hand drive, came with standard wheels and cloth cream Recaros not leather, but thankyou for your effort John :)
Hi again everyone.
After getting my 85 GTV6 back on the road with its reskinned dash and rebuilt gearbox, we turned our attention to the split dash.
I mentioned in one of my earlier posts that this car has some mechanical issues. It really is a car in two parts, it is unmolested in originality terms, standard springs, bars, shocks etc., excellent paint, the body has two minor rust spots and has never had any accidents, great interior, however......The mechanical condition of the car is totally at odds with its appearance.
In short, it's a mess. The engine bay is filthy, showing signs of bodged or no maintenance, the cams and lifters are stuffed, 20mm play in the nsf tie rod end!!! all vacuum hoses are stuffed as are all suspension bushes and it leaks oil everywhere and I mean everywhere.
What to do? since I already have a now excellent example of the more desirable Isostatic 85 model.
So, we've decided to first throughly clean the engine and underside and then run the car and find out where all the oil leaks are coming from. Then, we are going to remove the engine, drop the sump, remove the heads and assess it. if i'm lucky replacing the cams and lifters will be enough and we can service the radiator, replace all of the vacuum lines, injection hoses, tidy up the wiring, etc., Rear end also needs some attention, but nothing major at this stage.
This is really a mechanical restoration, it seems silly but not so much when I remember that when I first started playing around with 105s they were much younger than this car at nearly 32 years old.
Regards
John
The '85 has its reskinned dash and sunvisors installed, gearbox is rebuilt and with the front hubs cleaned and rotors skimmed is now driving beautifully.
We have pulled the engine out of the Split Dash and pressure washed the underside and cleaned the engine bay. It is amazingly rust free with just a small spot in the drivers door that I knew about when I bought it. The heads have been removed to reveal this:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/313g84k.jpg)
My engineer has never seen anything like it. We couldn't believe the car ran well, didn't overheat and hadn't blown a head gasket!!. Most of the sludge is where the head gasket separated and the steel part between the cylinders has corroded and fallen into the water passages. Amazingly, the liners aren't rusty and the bores are good. We think the car must have been sitting for a good while, whoever "serviced" it didn't show it much love.
The plan is to clean it up and, have the cams rebuilt and new lifters, drop the sump and have a look, water pump seems ok. The tensioner oiler has been blocked off so that's ok. Hopefully the bottom end will be good.
I have located the correct cam covers and will hydroblast them and the plenum before it goes back together. Then we have to clean the radiator, put a larger condenser in, sort the wiring and so on...
John
Yes, I still have the Dulux car.
It was the press car. Ray took it back to Canberra after the press duties were completed to prepare for Bathurst 82.
History of the car here: www.duluxalfa.com
Frank Porter co drove with Ray in 85 and 86.
As far as I can tell only the 3 GTV6's ever raced (including the reshelled Luigi car)
The Gulson car - 82 press car
The Network Alfa Car - Group E, Network Alfa 84 Bathurst, Yellow livery, Toy Shop, Bond, Rooklyn, Sports Sedan, written off
Luigi Car - Bond, crashed, reshelled, bond, porter, harrison
Quote from: Scott Farquharson on August 21, 2014, 09:51:50 PM
Yes, I still have the Dulux car.
It was the press car. Ray took it back to Canberra after the press duties were completed to prepare for Bathurst 82.
History of the car here: www.sandmcustom.com/dulux/
Frank Porter co drove with Ray in 85 and 86.
As far as I can tell only the 3 GTV6's ever raced (including the reshelled Luigi car)
The Gulson car - 82 press car
The Network Alfa Car - Group E, Network Alfa 84 Bathurst, Yellow livery, Toy Shop, Bond, Rooklyn, Sports Sedan, written off
Luigi Car - Bond, crashed, reshelled, bond, porter, harrison
Hi Scott - was the car also raced in NZ over one summer in ANZ colours? Certainly it was a Gulson car; I have a photo somewhere back in Melbourne.
Thanks Scott.
If I read the chassis nos correctly your car was built in January 1982, no 269? My car was built in February 82, no 26. This may mean there aren't actually 757 between your car and mine. I think the numbers restart from zero each month, so the two may actually be very close.
I'm assuming all of these 35 split dash cars were built and imported as a batch? Can any other owners out there supply chassis nos?
John
My previous post is incorrect, I believe that the Dulux car is the 269th RHD car built in 1981, hence the 1269 chassis no. My car was built in February 82 and is the 26th RHD built in 82.
All are to UK specs, hence the lack of Australian compliance. How ARA managed to register them all as 2 litre cars is a mystery.
John
Quote from: GG105 on September 02, 2014, 07:02:44 PM
Thanks Scott.
If I read the chassis nos correctly your car was built in January 1982, no 269? My car was built in February 82, no 26. This may mean there aren't actually 757 between your car and mine. I think the numbers restart from zero each month, so the two may actually be very close.
I'm assuming all of these 35 split dash cars were built and imported as a batch? Can any other owners out there supply chassis nos?
John
Re my old car referred to in post #5, the engine no. I have on record as AR01646004147. Don't have a note of chassis no.
Cheers
Quote from: aggie57 on August 22, 2014, 05:42:23 PM
Hi Scott - was the car also raced in NZ over one summer in ANZ colours? Certainly it was a Gulson car; I have a photo somewhere back in Melbourne.
This one?
It's in this video from about 2:40 on..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw4gprKTbjo
Happy New Year everyone.
An update on progress with the split dash GTV6. As so often happens, this has developed into a mechanical restoration. You've seen the condition of the inside of the engine in an earlier post. Despite the mess the bores and bearings were good. The cams and lifters were stuffed, so they have been attended to and the heads have been serviced. I bought a full gasket kit and all the oil seals have also been replaced. New water pump, injector service and all of the injector and vacuum hoses have been replaced. I have not been able to locate replacements for the original braided vacuum hoses, so have resorted to black silicone.
Wiring was a mess, just look at the earlier engine bay photo. The heater had been bypassed and there was no heater tap. We are dealing with this, so we can get the heater and a/c operable. Its difficult to believe that a car with such a good body and interior could be such a mess mechanically. The engine is now back together with hydroblasted cam covers and plenum. I have a new AAV, time switch, pressure regulator, expansion tank and the washer bottle has been cleaned as best I can. I have sourced replacement decals for the air filter and washer bottle. The engine bay has been thoroughly cleaned.
The car needed new inner tie rod ends, a saga in itself in respect of the nearside one. While we were there we rebuilt the gearbox and I sourced a repo original style rear muffler and tail pipe. We are adding relays to the window and wiper circuits. The front and rear suspension has been cleaned up and selectively repainted.
The engine is in, we are waiting for some hard to get minor parts and this part of the refresh will be complete. Here are a couple of photos.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/2jbnsx0.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/eq5sug.jpg)
The underside is not nearly as well finished as my 85, which had glossy red paint all over.
John
My apologies for the size of the photos, in future I will resize them.
Fantastic effort :)
Getting closer to having it finished. The engine bay is nearly done, I need to chase down the correct Romablok hose clamps. I have new decals for the washer bottle and airbox. I need the two covers for the firewall junction boxes and a correct working inertia switch. Can anyone help with these? New ignition leads and dissy cap have been ordered. The wiring was a mess, it has all been cleaned up. The heater tap is installed and the speakers replaced with less obtrusive ones. We will instal relays for the wipers and windows. We are going to put the tacho where it is supposed to be, in front of the driver 8)
(http://i59.tinypic.com/23tle7t.jpg%3Cbr%20/%3E%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i61.tinypic.com/2imak2x.jpg)
The gearbox has been rebuilt, together with the front suspension. We have replaced the rear muffler with one from EB Spares, its not quite the same as the original but fairly close.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/dmqhb5.jpg)
The original Campagnolo wheels have been repainted (the later cars have Speedlines which are different) and the correct 195x60x15 tyres will be installed. After that we will deal with the rust bubble in the drivers door and patch in the spare tyre well and shoot some colour inside the wheel arches and underside of the spare tyre well. It isn't a concours car, but it should look and drive well when it is finished.
John
Hi John,
Great story and resto.
I have an inertia switch kicking around, but I'm not sure what it's out of. I'll find it on the weekend and pm you some photos to see if it's any use.
Cheers
Steve
Adelaide.
Nice work GG105. Not all idiosyncrasies of these iconic cars bother people in the same way and hence their popularity over time has not deminished. Many current owners are chosing to forego the authentic true to original approach and instead elect to eliminate those negative aspects that can be readily done so and develop these cars to their full potential. When that process is complete and done with conviction, the magic of an Alfa transaxle is incomparable. The beauty of the form is simply icing on the cake.
A lot of chat has revolved around the spit dashboard in the early series without actually addressing its qualities and so I would like to ad just a few.
In the main motorsport enthusiasts prefer to use a smaller steering wheel than the bus size units that come as original equipment. With the later dashboards that present the instrument cluster in front of the driver, it is often the case that there is a visual impediment to fully reading all of the instruments. I have this very problem now in a 75 series where I can only see half the oil pressure, half the tacho and the temp gauge and all of them the wrong half.
With a split dashboard none of this is a problem because all of the instrumentation is in full view all the time.
This mindset was in place with some of the 105 series cars where the small binnacle cluster was carefully located in the "centre" of the steering wheel whilst the support instrumentation was beautifully clustered above the transmission tunnel as part of the console.
So for my money, the split dashboard ticks all the boxes for ergonomic reasons.
I am looking forward to see how you solved the location of the tacho transfer in the driver's binnacle. All the instruments that I have researched to do this are of the mechanical type and none that I know of were made using the Veglia Electronic versions.
Just one pic. to illustrate my point
Just remembered something from the past....
When I ran the workshop in Brisbane about 1992, one of the local car yards (from Moorooka's Magic Mile of Motors) brought a GTV6 in that had been traded with a blown gearbox. I fixed it for them (can still remember the gear was about $350). I sorted it and sent it on its way.
One of the salesmen bought it back a while later asking if I knew anyone who may be interested in it. They had plenty of people drive it and love it, but would not buy it. He said there was something funny about the compliance plate and it was an early car brought in for racing and therefore did not have air conditioning (could have been salesman BS). For most people in QLD, this was a show stopper.
These cars were built before the Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989, and therefore compliance was not controlled by the federal government.
I have also worked on one of those English cars with the odd workaround dash. Was a rustbucket.
After nearly two and a half years the GTV6 is nearly finished with some detail stuff to recrify. Wheels have been refinished and the correct profile tyres installed.
Here she is looking nearly (rub strip aside) as it would have in 1982. I'll complete the story when it is fully sorted. I'm very happy.
(http://i60.tinypic.com/20rvkp1.jpg)
John
Unlike other occupants of the shed the GTV6 is progressing well. Its off having two small rust areas attended to, drivers door and spare tyre well. We're removing a couple of dents, welding up some unseemly holes on the drivers side inner guard where there looks to have been an alarm fitted and lastly shooting some colour inside the front and rear wheel arches. The non standard black molds have been removed, she should be ready in a week or so.
I still have a few mechanical teething issues to sort out and a little trim to restitch. More pics soon.
John
Quote from: Sheldon McIntosh on September 27, 2014, 01:10:18 AM
Quote from: aggie57 on August 22, 2014, 05:42:23 PM
Hi Scott - was the car also raced in NZ over one summer in ANZ colours? Certainly it was a Gulson car; I have a photo somewhere back in Melbourne.
This one?
Hi Sheldon,
This is the first time I've seen that footage. Awesome, and the first I've seen (and known) it lost a cnr in that race. Ray never mentioned it.
Thanks!
Absolutely thats the Dulux car. That was acrylic paint that washed off. You can still see the red around the doors. It went to the current colour scheme after the NZ race and prior to bathurst.
Quote from: GG105 on September 03, 2014, 07:49:44 AM
My previous post is incorrect, I believe that the Dulux car is the 269th RHD car built in 1981, hence the 1269 chassis no. My car was built in February 82 and is the 26th RHD built in 82.
All are to UK specs, hence the lack of Australian compliance. How ARA managed to register them all as 2 litre cars is a mystery.
John
Thanks John!
Good afternoon everyone. The external detailing of the GTV6 is almost complete. I have to replace the early grille badge and put a new one on the tailgate. I also need a couple of front blinker lenses. We have removed the aftermarket rub strips, the drivers door rust, some dents and painted inside all of the wheel arches in body colour. I had some unsightly old alarm holes welded up on the drivers inner guard I have an engine bay decal kit, that's the next job. Some tidying up inside is now required including new window switches which I now have.
I have a lead on a South African 3 Litre GTV6, we'll see how that goes.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/k34xma.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/f3cks0.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2ed1s1j.jpg)
John
Looks great John. Have enjoyed your updates. have fun with the car!
Chassis No 2024 has surfaced in NSW, two before my car, also red, no sunroof, but with a tan leather interior, we don't know if it was factory. No compliance date, as usual, however, the build date says March 82.
Out of sequence builds are nothing unusual in car manufacturing. This seems supports the theory that all the split dashs were built as a batch?
Come on guys, how about some more chassis numbers?
John
The GTV6 has been to the trimmers to rectify the passenger seat stitching and sun visors. Steve replaced the seat webbing, repaired the sunvisors, made a dash cover to protect the uncracked dash and did an amazing job cleaning the boot matt. So good, that the rest of the boot lining looks terrible.
I realised with hindsight I should have rebuilt both front seats as the passengers side now looks much better than the drivers. Steve has also offered to work his magic on the rest of the boot trim, he won't tell me exactly how he does it.....
When completed the car had two mechanical issues, the first was a driveline vibration at all speeds, which we knew wasn't the driveshaft, the second was a scary wander at 100+ks.
The second was easy, it was the big panhard rod bush, its amazing how much this affected the car.
The first was harder. We initially were concerned the flywheel had been changed, a problem as the engines are balanced with it on. On further checking, the vibration was coming from the clutch which we didn't replace as it had plenty of meat on it. When we put the car on the road I found that it was taking up very high. We have located an OEM Sachs clutch kit and this is being fitted.
We also need to somehow chnage the accelerator pedal angle so that my right knee isn't twisted and under the armrest.
Nearly there.
I can't believe its coming up two years since I bought the split dash GTV6. In the intervening period I bought a very original low mileage Giulia Super, to go with my long time 1300TI, and have nearly finished the restoration of my Giulia Spider Veloce.
The GTV6 has its new clutch which has fixed the vibration and the wander at speed has been fixed with a new Panhard rod bush. We've fitted the new window switches and modified the accelerator pedal to lower and move it further away. This has moved it about 2.5cm, which makes a difference. I have added the engine decal kit and now need an original inertia switch and the junction box covers on the firewall. We spent a lot of time adjusting the airflow meter back to factory settings as it was running too rich. As with everything else on this car it had been buggered about with.
I still need to modify the passenger side mirror so that I can actually see out of it and we're going to investigate a larger a/c condenser to see if we can improve the system. It has a rotary compressor. These and fixing a few other minor trim issues should see the car done.
Merry Christmas everyone and all the best for 2016. May your Alfas multiply and your problems reduce.
John
Quote.....and we're going to investigate a larger a/c condenser to see if we can improve the system....
It's not a well understood fact that the Alfetta GTV air-conditioning system is a completely wrong design for Australian heat and humidity loads. The size and nature of the evaporator unit and the totally inadequate fan volume in not able to deal with the massive heat load acquired by the very large glasshouse cabin.
Yes you can get some cooling but it will never be anything like air conditioning in contemporary cars.
Remember that the eyeball vents only distribute fresh air and are not part of the refrigerated air circuit. Chilled air is only delivered from the evaporator outlets which is very localised and delivers poor circulation hence the frozen knee cap with a sweaty shirt collar.
Improvements can be made by:-
1 Replacing the condenser with a more efficient cross flow unit and a fan INFRONT of it.
2 Installing heater supply AND return shut off stainless ball valves in the engine bay as the factory cable valve does not fully shut off the hot water circulation and puts a continual heat load into the evaporator.
3 Install a clear air curtain behind the front seats to partition the cabin in half to reduce the heat load.
Some lessons have been learned and applied in the following transaxles such as the 90 and the 75 series which are much better and do an adequate if not a brilliant job.
Great work looks great
could you post a photo of the panhard bush please that you replaced insitu
as mine has a similiar issue that has illuded us
I did not realised they had a panhard
Watts links 2
Panhard nil.
Thanks Guys.
Forum 1 - Me 0 ::)
MD, thanks for the aircon heads up. We know about the system constraints. Not only is it because it only operates through the central vents, there isnt enough space between the dash and firewall to re-engineer it.
Benincas told me they thought transplanting a 75 system would be effective, but they'd never done it.
Sportiva. That's a Watts link fulcrum.
GG105
Please refer to the attached photos which detail the core problems with the original 116 air conditioner system. It makes some suggestions for minor improvements. Also explains why the 75/90 works better even though essentially its the same parts just reconfigured. Neither systems has any decent air filtration or screening so that these units get filled with leaf debris and general air borne litter to the point that the airflow in them is abysmal. Taking the entire box out for a clean out is akin to removing tonsils via your anus.
MD, thanks, I see your point and its never going to work with that tiny evaporator. Do you have a picture of a 90/75 box?
Sportiva, in my single piece dash car we swapped them, I didn't do it in the split dash as it is a bit of a mission.
As to rub strips, to the best of my knowledge:
Split dash cars dont have them, nor do pre 83 single piece dash cars remembering all LHD cars are single piece dash, I think.
OZ 83-85 Single piece dash cars have rub strips with silver underneath and silver on the window surrounds
Very late pre Grand Prix cars have the rub strip but no silver underneath.
Correct me if I'm wrong here.
John
GG105
See page no.4 from shiny:
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,7349.msg77032/topicseen.html#msg77032 (http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php/topic,7349.msg77032/topicseen.html#msg77032)
QuoteBenincas told me they thought transplanting a 75 system would be effective, but they'd never done it.
In case you did not see my link:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/hvac/468889-116-gtv-franken-c-install.html (http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/hvac/468889-116-gtv-franken-c-install.html)
Effectiveness test performed yesterday: 36* at 7:00 when I did a run to get some Asian takeaway... Cold as ice. I would say it was "Effective".
I thought it was the Watts linkage not panhard
Ill check it out this could well be the drift problem
that dash still great!! love the centred tacho
Quote from: LukeC on December 21, 2015, 01:42:30 PM
QuoteBenincas told me they thought transplanting a 75 system would be effective, but they'd never done it.
In case you did not see my link:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/hvac/468889-116-gtv-franken-c-install.html (http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/hvac/468889-116-gtv-franken-c-install.html)
Effectiveness test performed yesterday: 36* at 7:00 when I did a run to get some Asian takeaway... Cold as ice. I would say it was "Effective".
There's great info hidden in this thread. Perhaps an aircon discussion sticky for all models might be useful, I know that this time of year is the only time I think about selling my 156... Simply because the aircon is so bloody useless! :-[
Quote from: Craig_m67 on December 21, 2015, 07:39:38 PM
Quote from: LukeC on December 21, 2015, 01:42:30 PM
QuoteBenincas told me they thought transplanting a 75 system would be effective, but they'd never done it.
In case you did not see my link:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/hvac/468889-116-gtv-franken-c-install.html (http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/hvac/468889-116-gtv-franken-c-install.html)
Effectiveness test performed yesterday: 36* at 7:00 when I did a run to get some Asian takeaway... Cold as ice. I would say it was "Effective".
There's great info hidden in this thread. Perhaps an aircon discussion sticky for all models might be useful, I know that this time of year is the only time I think about selling my 156... Simply because the aircon is so bloody useless! :-[
My 147 air conditioning is pretty much the same but as it is not my daily drive I can live with it. :-\
It was 83
I have tinted the windows in my car, upgraded the condesor and compressor and the AC is acceptable if you don't park the car out in the sun and expect it to cool it down
Luke and MD, thanks for the links.
Luke that is great work, I'm not sure the 75 unit will work very well with a split dash, but well worth considering for a single piece dash car. Initially, I think I will upgrade the condensor and see if that helps. I've thought of tinting the windows but I don't think I like the look.
QuoteAll early GTV6's had a split dash was it 83 I think that a revision to the interior included the single dash and recaro seats?
Interestingly, I have had two 83 GTV's that still had a split dash. I think the GTV's went to single dash in 84.
Clayton - well done on the conversion. Having a 75 and a GTV I can vouch that the 75 AC is much better than the GTV. I have a spare GTV heater box I intend to play with to see if I can rebuild it better whilst maintaining the original exterior. My biggest aim is to push the air rather than pull it.
Tinting is a huge improvement. I cannot stress how much of an difference it made to both my cars. I went for the strongest UV and heat blocking properties rather than the darkest and can now get into the car on a searing hot day and the AC has a chance to get the heat load down to a pleasant level before I have melted. I am also running the TS compressor and hydrocarbons but with the original condenser and evaporator.
GTVeloce
QuoteI have a spare GTV heater box I intend to play with to see if I can rebuild it better whilst maintaining the original exterior. My biggest aim is to push the air rather than pull it.
That's the ticket. It's why the 75/90 air works better. However it will still lack real air volume to distribute via face level air registers. Air speed and volume is the second key problem with these systems. Insufficient fan capacity. In areas of low humidity, these systems will do an adequate job.
I don't know where you live but here in Queensland (coastal) you don't need a heater and so the quickest way to make the Alfetta evap. boxes get efficient even though the fans are still in the "pull" mode is to lose the heater core.
It may be possible to replace it with some form of 12volt electric heater element that would occupy a fraction of the original heater core volume and provide perhaps only enough heat for demisting purposes. Just a thought on the fly.
Mate I think you are victim of the "placebo effect". :)
Solar films are of marginal value because their main filtration is for UV which does not produce heat. Whereas infrared is not blocked by solar films allowed on car windows and that's where their real worth is. The mirror like reflective films do a good job in this regard but they are not legal for automotive application.
QuoteAnd the 88 model might have looked like this
Have to say I'm glad the 88 didn't go into production. Interior looks ok, but to my eye the external face-lifts would have really vandalised the sharp lines of the earlier models.
Much better that they progressed to an entirely new look and launched the 75.
Quote from: GG105 on September 16, 2015, 05:43:28 PM
Chassis No 2024 has surfaced in NSW, two before my car, also red, no sunroof, but with a tan leather interior, we don't know if it was factory. No compliance date, as usual, however, the build date says March 82.
Out of sequence builds are nothing unusual in car manufacturing. This seems supports the theory that all the split dashs were built as a batch?
Come on guys, how about some more chassis numbers?
John
My son is thinking of selling his car (see my earlier post #5 for pic).
Chassis 2031, engine 3751
@ GTVeloce, I think its pretty clear that the split dash cars were mostly built in 1982 and maybe late 1981 and maybe in one batch if the number of 35 - 50 is correct and I believe they were all registered in 1982. We've now identified four with consistent chassis numbers, there must be more out there?
I think the first single piece dash Australian cars were built in 1983.
There is a Feb 82 built split dash GTV6 for sale in Tasmania on Carsales: http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Alfa-Romeo-Alfetta-1983/SSE-AD-3948055/?Cr=2
It looks pretty original but needs a full restoration.
In February next year my GTV6 will be 35 years old, the youngest of them nearly 30.
When I bought my Giulia 1300 TI in 1992, I thought it was an old car and it was only 22 then. If I had then bought a 35 year old Alfa it would have been a 750 of some sort or the larger 1900 or 2000. My point is that a 35 year old car today doesn't seem that old and being more durable and capable than a 50s car, lasts longer. Consequently, we tend tqo expect more of them, like a/c that works.
Between the introduction of the Alfetta, Sud and the 156, a period of around 24 years, if you use the European release dates rather than when they came to Oz, Alfa produced some deeply flawed motor cars. Charismatic perhaps, but flawed nevertheless and they all had their different issues.
If not at the top then near the top of the list in this respect is the GTV6. I won't list their quirks here, we all know them, basically one of the worlds great engines, in a lovely looking car with a terrible gear change, awful ergonomics and appalling build quality. Compared with 105s they, justifiably, get little respect and have low values.
The Tasmanian car in the ad Paul has listed probably won't be restored, it certainly would not be economic to do so at present. It will likely either be parted out, modified or turned into a race car. If it were a 105 people would be all over it, marvelling at its originality.
This is a shame but it is reality. Values are low and parts availability is poor. The oldest 105s are over 50 now and have been cherished for a long time, at 35, GTV6s sell for for pin money, look at the value of an early 80s 911.
I don't expect this will change much over time, they are simply too flawed, but they are a lot of fun and its nice to have bought one back from almost certain death.
Quote from: Paul Newby on April 05, 2016, 02:43:34 PM
There is a Feb 82 built split dash GTV6 for sale in Tasmania on Carsales: http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Alfa-Romeo-Alfetta-1983/SSE-AD-3948055/?Cr=2
It looks pretty original but needs a full restoration.
The car for sale is owned by my son and is referred to and pictured in my post no.6 on this thread. He has owned it more than 10 years after being introduced to the split dash GTV6 I bought in 1982 when he was still a pre schooler. I think the car is better than his description on Carsales and it is registered (Special interest) and drives well. Just a little unloved in recent years!
Well, that's my view and I will encourage him to provide more info in the ad.
Hi, I just purchased one of these early split dash models. The roadworthy was just completed at Monza Motors in Bayswater. Can someone give me the paint code on these early red ones. I'll post photos once I get some decent shots of it. Mines got the 2232 chassis no. if anyones interested :)
Cheers, Andrew
I think split dash stopped in March 83 ( build date) and from april 83 the series 2 started
you have to reference build date because compliance can be up to 2 years different
This also included changes to the gearbox ( isostatic 4.3) and I believe shorter torsion bars battery in boot
electronic ignition different cams and inlet tracts( half pipe ramtubes)they quote 96kwover the previous 89kw
and they started dipping bodies for rust protection ( about time)
Quote from: carlo rossi on August 06, 2016, 12:48:27 PM
I think split dash stopped in March 83 ( build date) and from april 83 the series 2 started
you have to reference build date because compliance can be up to 2 years different
This also included changes to the gearbox ( isostatic 4.3) and I believe shorter torsion bars battery in boot
electronic ignition different cams and inlet tracts( half pipe ramtubes)they quote 96kwover the previous 89kw
and they started dipping bodies for rust protection ( about time)
The early straight dash cars didn't have isostatic and had the long torsion bars. They arrived late '84 with the 75 based chassis.
Andrew, congratulations, how about starting a thread with your car's story. Does it have its build plate? What is its spec?
Carlo, as I've said before and Andrew's car verifies this, I believe all the split dash cars were built in 1982, in batches as they were unique and only sold in small numbers in RHD markets. This makes sense as there were only 35, 50 or whatever. My recollection when researching my first split dash is that these cars were all sold in 1982 and sales proper with complianced cars didn't start until mid 83.
ARA had data cards for every car sold, I've seen them. Does anyone know what happened to them? I can't believe they were destroyed.
Quote from: bronzeoz1 on August 06, 2016, 10:43:30 AM
Hi, I just purchased one of these early split dash models. The roadworthy was just completed at Monza Motors in Bayswater. Can someone give me the paint code on these early red ones. I'll post photos once I get some decent shots of it. Mines got the 2232 chassis no. if anyones interested :)
Cheers, Andrew
The paint code should be AR501.
Alfa never intended to fit straight dashes to RHD cars. Whereas LHD GTV6's were straight dash from the start.
It was only when the British importer refused to sell the split dash cars and fitted their own local hybrid version that Alfa changed their mind. And yes, the first 75 based cars were sold in Oz early '85 but were built from late '84.
Yes back then it took alot graft and corruption at both ends to get a car here under 12 months
Containers were just starting
mine has iso gearbox series 2 dash and seats
dont know which torsion bars
built May 83 compliance june 1984
so when people say from this date can we be clear and work on build dates as aggie says
the one he quotes is over 12 months apart in dates
also different air cleaner air intake and distributer
and Dipped sounds like I missed out on 75 chassis
does that make my model the last Real Alfa before Fiat ??
only stirring but someone will bite
Quote from: GG105 on August 06, 2016, 06:54:32 PM
Andrew, congratulations, how about starting a thread with your car's story. Does it have its build plate? What is its spec?
Carlo, as I've said before and Andrew's car verifies this, I believe all the split dash cars were built in 1982, in batches as they were unique and only sold in small numbers in RHD markets. This makes sense as there were only 35, 50 or whatever. My recollection when researching my first split dash is that these cars were all sold in 1982 and sales proper with complianced cars didn't start until mid 83.
ARA had data cards for every car sold, I've seen them. Does anyone know what happened to them? I can't believe they were destroyed.
Hi,
Specs as far as I know it came with a sunroof, twin side mirrors & aircon. I'm not sure about the build plate but it does have some weird Australian compliance place with a ton of numbers which I dont understand. I've introduced myself (attached link: http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=16193.0).
Cheers
Ok its turns out mine has the long torsion bar model with no bulge for gearbox which
everyone says means mine does not have a iso gearbox *( cant imagine the difference mine is brilliant)
but it has series 2 airbox and collector , seats and dash
so mine might be a 1 1/2 series in english terms or italian terms what ever is on the shelf series ?
It has been long accepted that the split dash lasted a lot longer in left hand drive because they hadnt started making the LH drive
full dash yet and had again whatever is left over
There still seems to be some confusion about LHD GTV6s. All LHD GTV6s had the one piece dash. The early ones didn't have the Recaro interior, the US cars had leather.
A brief update.
A few months ago in order to avoid a tradie swerving into my lane, I locked the brakes up and hit the kerb, damaging both nearside wheels. Fortunately, other than alignment, no suspension damage. Wheels and alignment have now been fixed.
While we were there we decided to fit front balljoint risers to raise the front roll centre and reduce the tendency of the front end to fall into corners. This is an old Alfetta mod that works well.
During the rebuild we balanced the tailshaft carefully but there is still a vibration so...out it comes again. This is a mission on an early GTV6 because they have the longer torsion bars and dont have a removable cross member like the later cars. There is some concern that the vibration may be in the engine, possibly from someone fitting a different flywheel. In these engines the crank, flywheel and harmonic balancer are all balanced as a unit. Changing one component can upset this.
We checked the crank and bearings when the engine was stripped, no wear on either crank or bearings so the crank is ok. We're hoping it is in the tailshaft. If not, we will consider our position. I'll post some photos shortly.
John
The vibration was in the tailshaft. This is the short form. It nearly drove us mad, it was finally sent to Benincas for balancing. Joe told us to line the drive train up, which we did as best we could. Pretty much right now, just a little vibration off idle.
The car was showing some signs of glazed bores, so we ran it up on the dyno, several sessions of 4,000 revs in third gear have done the trick. We ground of the locating pins off the passenger side mirror, so now I can turn it enough to actually see out of it.
Its pretty much done now apart from some minor cosmetic stuff. Faults aside, and there are plenty of them, these are special cars and I'm very happy to have brought this one back from the brink.
It shares shed space with the other Alfas and an Aussie R32 GTR, E36 M3, Porsche 3.2 Carrera, Renault Clio V6, NA Mazda MX5 and an SL500 MB. This makes for an interesting comparison. Ignoring the last two, whilst the others are quicker than the Alfa, the little V6 pulls way above its 160hp weight and nothing sounds quite like it.
John
Does anyone have a paint formula or code for painting early campagnolo GTV6 wheels?
Ian, I don't have a formula for the paint. I usually use BMW silver for late model wheels.
John
Hi Ian,
Bring one of your wheel rims to any of the Auto paint shops and they should match the paint colour.
I repaired one of my 916 spider rims , I went to CD auto paint in Dandenong, they match the paint perfectly. :)
They weren't in the best condition. But I am kicking myself that I didn't get them colour matched before I had them blasted to prepare them for painting. Now there is no paint on them. And no one seems to have the colour. I have heard that the early Campagnolo wheels have a different colour to the later Camparatura wheels. Stands to reason, they are a different manufacturer and material.
The Campy wheels, from memory, were a slightly duller colour than the later wheels, although I don't remember them from new. In any event, I don't think the difference is material. If you look at the photos on this thread, mine are painted BMW Silver and I think they look fine.
Quote from: sportiva on December 28, 2016, 01:37:19 PM
The reason I have thought about knucle risers and drop spindles and not done it. Is that I have doubts about there price v's handing improvement on a road car. Of the two designs I think the drop spindle would be stronger and less stresssed but they are more expensive and I wondering if the price for the improved turn in is justified for a road car driven with enthusiasm. As it is my car handles well and is predicable on a wet road inital understeer can be controlled with steering and throttle input to bring the back around and oversteer is easily corrected. Does changing the roll center make these cars a handfull on a wet road do they want to snap oversteer especially with an LSD fitted
No, the roll centre change has no downside as far as I recall. It's been a number of years but I had three cars with various combinations of the common changes. The last one was a late GTV6 that was a fast road car, not a dedicated track one, and it had the full gambit including extended uprights, lowered rear roll centre, LSD, etc.
It was quick on the track and a great road car. Standard cars, even with stiffer bars and coils, where ponderous by comparison. Slower turn in, more understeer, generally a couple of steps below. Yes, the LSD made for some fun on wet roads but one lesson I recall was to keep the rear roll bar and rear springs soft. With soft springs it would even do lovely 11's wet or dry but with stiffer rear springs it would just axle tramp.
The difference in turn-in with the long shank ball joints is fantastic, especially on the road. Through some awesome mountain passes I drove my GTV (with modded roll centre) and a GTV6 (without) and yes, 4 cyl vs 6 cyl would have made a difference with respect to understeer, but the biggest difference I noticed was the ability to take tight switch back corners in my car without re positioning my hands on the wheel which was not possible in the GTV6. Although I may not have minded as I was too busy lusting after the sound of the 6...
I have just received a set for my road going, fairly stock (standard torsion bars) 75. I am hopeful it will have a similar effect without stiffening the suspension too much in this car.
Have just bought a factory South African 3 litre GTV6. Stay tuned.
John
As a owner of one, I can tell you, well done, you will love it
Just got the reply from centro doco at Alfa on the Dulux car.
It is a very early build.
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 I.E. RHD
Production date: 1981, September 2nd
Delivery date: 1981, October 5th
Market destination: Australia
Exterior color: Rosso Alfa
Scott, how did you get the info from centrodocumentazione, and did they charge you? They provided me the info on my '81 GTV for free back in 2015, but there are a few folk on here who have asked for info since without luck. They may be interested in how to go about getting the info now and what charges may apply.
Quote from: Scott Farquharson on October 13, 2017, 05:29:46 PM
Just got the reply from centro doco at Alfa on the Dulux car.
It is a very early build.
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 I.E. RHD
Production date: 1981, September 2nd
Delivery date: 1981, October 5th
Market destination: Australia
Exterior color: Rosso Alfa
Gee Scott, that really is early. One of the first cars for Australia? Likely one of the first RHD cars too. I was in Paris in June '81 and saw my first GTV6 at an Alfa dealer there. I don't recall seeing one before then in the UK.
Quote from: GG105 on January 01, 2014, 09:28:57 AM
Happy new year everyone!
Thanks Tim, that's interesting. If it's correct that only 50 or so split dashes were imported, I suspect they were all '82 builds and all red, mine is Feb '82. That makes two more two more delete sunroof cars than I knew existed before yesterday! My car is chassis 2026, making it the 26th '82 production RHD GTV6. What is yours?
John
HI JOHN
Can you explain how to determine the chassis number and how you know it's the 26th car produced in 82? Just curious as I also own a 82 model split dash with sunroof and just trying to get a handle on where it sits with your car.
Mine has a built plate of Jun 82 and a compliance plate from Alfa Australia of 4/83
Allan
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: aggie57 on October 14, 2017, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: Scott Farquharson on October 13, 2017, 05:29:46 PM
Just got the reply from centro doco at Alfa on the Dulux car.
It is a very early build.
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 I.E. RHD
Production date: 1981, September 2nd
Delivery date: 1981, October 5th
Market destination: Australia
Exterior color: Rosso Alfa
Gee Scott, that really is early. One of the first cars for Australia? Likely one of the first RHD cars too. I was in Paris in June '81 and saw my first GTV6 at an Alfa dealer there. I don't recall seeing one before then in the UK.
I believe this was the original Alfa Romeo Australia evaluation car, NSW reg LPH816 which featured in press evaluations, including
Wheels magazine September 1982. (The GTV6 wasn't released here until 1983.) Gulson bought it directly from Alfa (I suspect it didn't have an Australian Compliance plate) and turned it into a Group C racer for Bathurst 1982.
spot on Paul.
Funnily enough, I was looking for a compliance plate on the weekend and couldn't find one.
I had always thought it was an 82, but there you go.
Quote from: Paul Newby on October 17, 2017, 11:47:46 AM
Quote from: aggie57 on October 14, 2017, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: Scott Farquharson on October 13, 2017, 05:29:46 PM
Just got the reply from centro doco at Alfa on the Dulux car.
It is a very early build.
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 I.E. RHD
Production date: 1981, September 2nd
Delivery date: 1981, October 5th
Market destination: Australia
Exterior color: Rosso Alfa
Gee Scott, that really is early. One of the first cars for Australia? Likely one of the first RHD cars too. I was in Paris in June '81 and saw my first GTV6 at an Alfa dealer there. I don't recall seeing one before then in the UK.
I believe this was the original Alfa Romeo Australia evaluation car, NSW reg LPH816 which featured in press evaluations, including Wheels magazine September 1982. (The GTV6 wasn't released here until 1983.) Gulson bought it directly from Alfa (I suspect it didn't have an Australian Compliance plate) and turned it into a Group C racer for Bathurst 1982.
Sorry for the delay, below are the details
On 13 Sep 2017, at 11:32 pm, Centro Documentazione Museo (Alfa Romeo) <centrodocumentazione@museoalfaromeo.com> wrote:
Dear Mr Farquharson,
Following your request, we would like to inform you that from our search in the production registers concerning the chassis number you provided, the following information is available:
- Model
- Production date
- Delivery date
- Market destination
- Exterior color
The Certificate of Origin, printed on high-quality paper, will be sent to the address you have provided. A preview will be sent to your email address. The cost of this service is 70.00€.
As an alternative, the information could be provided in the text of an e-mail. The cost of this service is 30.00 €.
If you have the current engine number, we can check whether it's original.
After you send us your confirmation by replying to this email, we will proceed to sending you the payment instructions.
Kind regards,
Valeria Falcone
Centro Documentazione Alfa Romeo
Viale Alfa Romeo
I-20020 Arese (MI)
ITALY
Quote from: poohbah on October 13, 2017, 07:43:01 PM
Scott, how did you get the info from centrodocumentazione, and did they charge you? They provided me the info on my '81 GTV for free back in 2015, but there are a few folk on here who have asked for info since without luck. They may be interested in how to go about getting the info now and what charges may apply.
Yes it is. Ray had always said it was the first, I'd just always thought it was an 82.
Quote from: aggie57 on October 14, 2017, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: Scott Farquharson on October 13, 2017, 05:29:46 PM
Just got the reply from centro doco at Alfa on the Dulux car.
It is a very early build.
Alfa Romeo GTV 6 2.5 I.E. RHD
Production date: 1981, September 2nd
Delivery date: 1981, October 5th
Market destination: Australia
Exterior color: Rosso Alfa
Gee Scott, that really is early. One of the first cars for Australia? Likely one of the first RHD cars too. I was in Paris in June '81 and saw my first GTV6 at an Alfa dealer there. I don't recall seeing one before then in the UK.
Good stuff Scott, that all makes sense. My view is that the batch of cars of Ozzie split dash cars that were sold were probably all built in early 82, January through March and probably all red. They had either charcoal or beige trim and a mix of sunroof and non sunroof, most had sunroofs. None of them had compliance plates and they were all registered as 2 litres.
Cheers
John
Spot on GG105. I owned one of the first five imported and another belonged to a girl in my neighborhood: all red, all registered as 2 litres, mine black velour & no roof, hers tan leather with roof!
The GTV6 Clarkson drives in S3 Ep7 of The Grand Tour is a fairly rare car. It is an 81 or 82 model with the early trim and the UK only interim dash, as shown in an earlier thread in this blog. The split dash was rejected by the UK distributors.
The car shows some typical GTV6 interior issues, including baggy sunvisors and so-so headlining. What I did notice, though, was how straight the bumpers are. I guess you have a choice, UK car with lots of rust and straight bumpers or Oz car with warped bumpers but little rust 8)
I just parked an 83 split dash GTV6 in need of restoration. In red with sunroof. I will be looking to lean on members expierence to find bits and bobs. First cab off the rank I need is a bonnet, any hint appreciated