Hi there - I have two Alfa 159 2.4 JTDs and the dealer says I need new control arms on both of them. They want approx $2000 per car. They say the rubber bushing is split or will soon be split.
Does this sound right? Pretty expensive! Both cars were new in 2007; one has 100k and the other 130K kms.
its just a rubber bush, doesn't sound rite does it. However I have heard these suspension parts are expensive jobs, hence I am in no hurry to do mine.
I agree - it sounds a lot a worn rubber part. They are saying that I have to buy two $800 parts for each car and their labour is approx. $450. So I can only assume that they think the car needs more than just the rubber part.
Stuff the dealers and do some homework(ebay, eb spares uk etc). They (dealers)quoted me > $2500 for dmf and labour and $5500 with whole clutch set (with a month wait for parts)and since ive done my homework ended up with a brand new Luk dmf delivered from eb spares uk at the door in 3 days for $720 and paying $660 for labour with a gearbox Castrol oil at a 'non-Alfa rippoff' mechanic that knows Alfas more than most of the garages that claim that they are the onlyones to be able to fix Alfas.
So please, but please forget the dealers and so-called Alfa specialists that charge on a story that they are they only Alfa knowers and they gonna save the 'Alfaworld' with charging you half the price of the value of the car to change the part.Trust me there are lot of mechanics out there that are not so-called 'specialists' but theyll do the job much better and quicker than our 'saviours'.
Dealers here in Aus are a special story.I wont be bothering with them at all(maybe some other time).
After we all wonder why Alfas are not so popular here.One of the major things are importers, dealers and some of the 'Alfa saviours'.
Cheers, Nikola
Thanks Nikola - could you (or anyone else) recommend a trustworthy, reliable mechanic in Melbourne (preferably in the south-east suburbs).
Seems that lots of blokes which went through 'Alfa specialists' BS talks are turning to Vince at Northern Alfa in Thomastown.Im not advertising anyone but as I said before shop around and never stop at the first station. ;)
I remember looking at 159 suspension parts at The Alfa Workshop and EB Spares and they were different and a bit more substancial than a 156 and they were about double the price, if think the arms were about $400 each, Genuine Alfa parts, so that is $800 for parts for each car plus labour.
You can most likely get a complete set of rubber bushes on their own, but then you have to pay to replace them in the arm and you will still have your old rattly ball joint and the old arm may be bent.
I would steer away from non genuine parts as a lot of them are designed for quick roadworthy's and start rattling a few months down the track.
Get some qoutes from different Alfa Service Providers, but make sure you are getting genuine parts and not generic copies.
Its your money and you go where ever you like, its always good to build up a good relationship with your Alfa mechanic, but don't go to a normal workshop who have never seen a Alfa Romeo 159 before, go to your favourite Alfa Specialist who know how to do this job correctly and you will most likely need a wheel alignment afterwards.
The 159 has a subframe that can move after the car hits a severe pothole, this needs to go on a jig so that the subframe can be positioned properly otherwise the car will 'crab' and run sideways down the road, if you are getting a wheel alignment this is important to know, Colin.
Thanks Colcol - I normally go with the dealer and the properly trained people and genuine parts, but their quote is for $2000 for each car - and I thought that was a bit extreme... We also have a blown aircon fan motor and a couple of other things and they want $7000 all up. Ouch!
Properly trained people? Dealers????? Try Essendon Fiat/Alfa dealer, youll see how properly trained they are.(I wont be mentioning others) Maybe in Europe, I know from experience, here couple of exceptions.:/
Its time for us Alfa lovers to say stop to the rip off that they are doing to us and make us pay as we are driving Ferrari's.Im sick and tired of that bs that has been given to us for years back.There are lot of good mechanics out there that know about all the 'secrets' of Alfas and they are repairing then for years back, but they are not claiming that they are Alfa masters and they charge reasonable like for any other car, , different than the others that need pampering (good relationship) and they are happy ripping you off and telling stories how hard is to fix an Alfa and how prophetic they are into founding out whats wrong with your car.
Trust me, im telling you this from experience. This is my second Alfa in Australia (im here only 4 years) but it didn't took me long to realize how trained and honest the 'specialists' are(by that I mean not only Alfa ones, but most of the self proclaimed Masters of certain types of cars).
As Colin said, look for genuine parts, but look around for better pricing, as for the mechanics, they can be either good and honest or dishonest and money lovers(no titles specialist and other crap that we hear everyday). . Nothing more than that.
Cheers
Just be careful if you find just the bush on it's own. I don't think you can buy them separately from Alfa, but i could be wrong, that's maybe why the dealer can only get the complete arms. The main bush on the arm is not just solid rubber, so possibly stay away from buying cheap bushes online. But then again a lot of the genuine parts have "made in china" on the box. Maybe Fiat/Alfa are trying to lower the prices of their parts, but will they be sacrificing quality as we've seen in the past when they lower their prices?
Also try the other parts places that sponsor the clubs, like Italian Automotive Spares in Melb, Turin Imports and The Spare Place in SA. I'm sure they will be able to help you with your needs and stock genuine and OEM products, so you know you're buying the best products for your car.
Lastly, if you get the arms changed, make sure you get a wheel alignment done. For that you will unfortunately have to go back to the dealer as Col mentioned, the sub frame needs to be aligned on a jig. A generic wheel alignment place won't have the jig required, so you'll just be paying them for nothing and actually throwing your money down the drain.
If you need to speak to a mechanic as Nikola78 mentioned, Vince @ Northern Alfa in Thomastown is great, friendly and doesn't talk BS. He's not the type of mechanic that needs his ego stroked like other mechanics that are masters of European cars and that they are better than everyone else.
His details can be found here: http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=10421.15
I have used the same mechanics for 10 years, and enjoyed great service at reasonable price here in Newcastle. But I wasnt getting an Alfa serviced. Whilst I was looking at alfas, I rang them for a quote on a cambelt service, they didnt have the tool for job unfortunately (cam blocks or something), but have a mechanic that services euro cars. Frustrating, because I feel confident getting my cars serviced by them. I will ask them for a quote on the suspension though, it costs nothing to ask! Lucky I can do my own oil changes, at least that saves me quite a bit. Agree with someone above....if we had more fairly priced mechanics for these cars, there would be alot more of them on the road. BUT......maybe they would hold their values alot better, which would be good for some, and not so for budget buyers like me.
yep, i agree totally. dealerships are very good at marketing their own at a premium price to local mechanics with Alfa experience. It confounds me still that car oners still use them. What you can take from the quote is that the part isnt a straight forward replacement at least, such as a bush replacement and Dominic is in the parts buisness so he knows what the go is. Hopefully someone can be of more use with where the parts can be sourced at a more reasonable price.
Anyhow, you really need to start up a repore witha new mechanic for your Alfas and start of with the club sponsered guys. It would be a crying shame for you to be disheartened by exorbatent dealership maintenance costs in this way. As ET mentioned his mechanic had to refer him on for the timeing belt, now thats a good mechanic that has the 'extraballs' (pun intended) to say he can't do the job and let money walk out of his shop. On a side note, if you're happy with your mech, like ET, you should purchase the cam locks for the mechanic to use. I know there obtainable for 932 series Alfa's for under $100 (I'll be buying a set soon), the 159 locks may reach $300 (stand to be corretced here), but worth it if you have a mechanic such as ET's. Hell the Mechanic may even purchase them from you if no one else will... or keep them until the next belt change.
If you need some timing tools for Alfa Romeo 159 Diesels, then they are on special at the moment at Bursons, i saw them in a flyer at work.
Make sure your mechanic is a VACC member, which means they are qualified and that they have the proper Alfa Romeo scanning equipment.
The Alfa Romeo Dealers have all the proper software updates for your cars and use Genuine Parts at a full recomended price, which can be sometimes double what EB are charging.
Get new Genuine control arms at wherever you want to buy them, bushes replacment is one thing, but how do you replace the balljoint, its not like Suds and 33's where you drill out the rivets and replace them with proper balljoints that are a bolt in replacment, i have seen no such thing for 147's, 156's and 159's, Colin.
Thanks everyone for your comments. Given the nature of the parts and work, and the need for the alignment, I will make a couple of calls to see if anyone can do the work with the correct tools and parts, but I can see myself going back to the dealer. The cars are driven by my 18 and 20 year old sons, and I don't want to take any chances.
Alfamen in Yarraville charged me 100 bucks is to fit some bushings to the front of my 147. no more clunks. recomend.
EDIT: I just checked, he replaced the sway bar link rods and bushings.
Why do you think they need replacing??? If the bushes wear, you will see irregular tyre wear as the front end toe changes under breaking. If you don't have symptoms of tyre wear or noises, I'd question whether it is really required.
The whole arm requires replacement because Alfa don't sell the bush separately. There is probably a replacement superpro bush available.
I'd be taking it to one of the Alfa Specialists who advertise with the club. They are all good
lower control arms on alfa 156 and 159 they all seem too be very hard on the lower arms give milanos a ring he will be the cheapist.