Hi,i'v just had the "mcsf" warning light come on,no beeping or flashing and no detectable problems while driving,revs smoothly through the range and idles well.Any idea's?[maybey havn't touched enough wood!]thanks Trev
The dreaded Motor Control System Failure, [Go To Dealer] signal, if the car seems to be running ok, then it could be a bad earth, give the battery leads and terminals a clean and see how you go, Colin.
Thanks Col,i'v been driving through a few deep puddles in my street because of heavy rain and im" also wondering if this could be upsetting things
Otherwise, as most will tell you, the engine management system failure will be a Lambda sensor failure. Put it on the diagnosis unit at your Alfa mechanics and they should be able to tell you what is going on.
I had the same warning light come up with the odd misfire, replaced the FOUR Lambda sensors and now all is fine, it is recommended that the Lambda sensors are replaced as part of a service, some BMW models are done at 60,000klms, The Alfa Workshop in the UK recommend, if i remember correctly 90,000klms?, or when they start to give trouble, compared to the new ones, the old ones were very dirty, purchased mine from EB Spares in the UK, if you don't replace them when faulty, the engine computer can't check on the mixture and will most likely richen it up to avoid valve and piston burning, this will clog up the TWO catalytic convertors at the front of the engine and they are about $3500?, ouch, Colin.
Col, as you know I too went through all this, and was dreading that I might need to have to replace a Cat. Glad it was just the final Sensor that needed changing and yes I agree EB Spares the place to get your parts.
From memory I was told that a generic Cat for the 156 was around $1400, while a genuine factory item around $2.5K !!! so serious ouch factor. Hence if sensors fail and/or really importantly, the thermostat packs it in (which they do), and you don't replace this item, there is every probability that sooner or later you will need to replace the Cat.
The other part which gives up the ghost and can provide similar symptoms to lambda sensor failures (not sure re the message)l, is the coil pack. Can't recall if there are more than one of these on JTS cars ??
Keep on top of things is always the key to smooth driving days ! ;D
Thanks,is there any way to tell if un burnt fuel is going into the cat?And how long does this need to be happening for it to wreck it?There is some soot deposits inside the exhuast but seems to be running fine.i'm getting a ecu scan during the week
Hey Davidm1750, as i found it is best to replace the 4 Lamdas, as they all get dirty and stop working properly at the same time, mine were all about the same amount of rubbish on them, doing 1 is almost as much work as doing 4 , jack the car up, remove undertray, front exhaust heat shield take off, etc, i got the odd misfire with mine and the go to dealer message.
The coil packs are different as they fail and the car only runs on 3 cylinders, so you know all about it, when my car started to misfire, i cleaned the spark plugs, still a misfire, then new spark plugs, misfiring still, then 4 new old coil packs i purchased off ebay for about $80?, no result, so i gambled on new Lambda sensors and it worked, i used to have a VL Commodore with the RB 30 Nissan motor and it had one Lamda Sensor, and at $35 each, when it would idle rough and misfire i would replace the Lambda every year, so i thought i could guess at a worn Lambda sensor, Colin.
Hi,i got a reading from a local mechanic pointing to errors with two lambda's,he cleaned the connections and cleared the mcsf and so far so good[didn't charge me at all because he couln't tell me for sure what problem was].I still need to take it to an alfa specialist to see if it's the connections,faulty lambda'a or kentuky fried cat's[hope not!]If the cat's are gone how does that effect performance?And how long can it be driven like that?Also does Aussie fuel play havoc with the sensors,im running it on 98 octain.thanks
If your car has done up to or over 100,000klms, then you had better think about replacing the FOUR Lambda's, they all live in the same exhaust pipe, and get dirty and as worn out as one another, don't replace 2, as then next week the other 2 will stuff up and send the dreaded 'MCSF'.
If the car starts running good again the cat may clean itself up, as the mixture will be back to where it should be, also thermostats are a consumables on these JTS and Twin Spark Motors, that will cause mixture problems and the engine won't warm up, if you need to buy 4 Lambda's, do a bit of research and emailing, as good savings can be made with a bit of researching, Colin.
i with you on this one Col, replace the Lambdas as your first port of call. My car has 123Km on the clock and I have done all 4. My car now runs perfectly fine. EB Spares definitely can supply cheaper than here in Aus, and even with the postage. As previously mentioned once ordered it should take no more than a week to arrive. If your cats are fried (and hopefully not of the KFC variety), I don't think it would be a good idea to be driving with them in that condition for too long. But hey think positive that it wont be them.
Glad to hear you weren't charged to put your car onto the analyser, it is a job which only takes a few minutes, and so they really shouldn't charge for this sort of thing.
I also agree with Col, in that if your car's temp is running on the low side at all it should mean that the thermostat is stuffed so replace it also. 98 ron fuel is perfectly fine for the JTS. I actually have mostly used 95 and don't have any issues with this.
As mentioned coil packs and an old battery and poor electrical contacts can also lead to triggering erratic engine performance, but probably not the engine management failure message ??
Hi,it's 600 ks on and the mcsf light hasn't come back on so im' hoping that it was just bad connections that were the problem.Since i'v had the car it's only done country km's so that may have blown out some carbon because it seems to have a bit more grunt,although i still need to get a proper scan i think.
t-rev, how many klms has your JTS done?, could be time for new Lambda sensors, Colin.
it's up to 80k,
Hi guys,
since a month and a half I am the owner of a 156 jts sports wagon (2005). As I read on this forum it looks like I have the same Lambda problem. What's the best place to go in southern Tasmania to have the car checked and the job done.
Cheers,
Roy
Hi Roy, two places should be able to sort your problems out. Either Fogarty Automotive in Argyle st, see Steve Caplice. Or alternatively talk to Monty Reading at Vinaka P/L, 1 Amy Street, Moonah. Ph 62730628.
In terms of where to get the Lambda sensors, my best advice is EB Spares in the UK. They have a website which is easy to use and they typically post parts (tracked), to Hobart in somewhere between 3-5 days.
What colour is your Sportwagon? I have had mine for nearly 6 years now, metallic light blue.
Got a black 156 selespeed with a red lether interior. Victorian import with 57000 K's done.
It is in need of a bit of tlc as the former owner did not look after it to well. Just had the timingbelt replaced. Next week I get the selespeed checked out as I can not swich from city to sport. If there is still a bit of cash left after that I have to get the front breakes and suspension done. Think about lowering the suspension a bit to give it a bit more of a sporty ride.
I try to get the lambda sensors over the net and replace them myself.
The last job is the paint work. It has a fair bit of chips/stone damage on the front. I get a quote in for that next week as the car has to go to the body works. I had someone backing up into the back of my car last Friday.
If that is all done it should be good for the next few years.
Sounds like you are on to things in sorting this one out. I bought mine in Sydney and drove it down the coast back to Hobart. Was a great trip. Good to know there is another Sportwagon here in Hobart, I think that would make it about the 9th wagon here now. So pretty rare down here, and yet they are so practical.
Bugger re the minor bingle damage etc. I had Boccinos do some repairs to mine a while ago after I scraped out a side skirt etc on my brother's driveway. Their work was excellent.
You may need to give The Alfa Workshop or EB Spares a chassis number and a engine number to get the correct Lambda Sensors, but i would get it diagnosed before spending money on new ones as it might be something else.
If you replace the Lambda Sensors yourself, you may think you need a 'Lambda Sensor Tool Replacment Tool Set Kit', [as i did], just buy a 22mm ring open end spanner, don't buy a weekend market low quality one or a high end Sidchrome or Kingchrome, i purchased a Trade Quality, [TQ] from Total Tools.
Spray the Lambda Sensors with WD-40 spray for a few hours/days/weeks or whatever it takes to penetrate the rusty threads, then loosen them off with your newly purchased ring spanner.
You will now find that EVERYTHING gets in the way of loosening the Lambda Sensors off, so you will have to cut the ring spanner in half so you can turn it and get to tight places, then after you have cut it in half, you have to turn it into a brake spanner by grinding a slot in the end, to allow the Lambda Sensor wire to pass through it.
So you just use an angle grinder to cut the spanner in half and to put a slot in the end, you are not able to do this with a Sidchrome or Kingchrome as the tears you will be crying at cutting up an expensive spanner will be too much to cope with.
If you use a Trash and Treasure spanner, because its such rubbish it will bend or break or both when you put some pressure on it, Colin.
You really know how to motivate people..... Lucky me that I work at a school where they train cert.II in automotive. I will forward your comments to the students so they know what to do.
Monday I have the car booked in at Fogarty Automotive. He is going to have a look what the problem is with the selespeed and he might be able to find out what the motor control system problem is.
just an update,i'v now done 3000 k since and the light has not come on,so i'm thinking it was just dirty connections causing it.Not ruling out the replacement of the lamda's on the horizon,at the moment it's runnin"nice.Now,let's touch some wood!
What connection was dirty. I live 12 Km up a gravel road so I might have same sort of problem
Hi Roy,im not sure.The guy that done it just said that he cleaned up the connections,sprayed some electrical contact spray.This is a common issue apparently and some people recommend soldering the connections to ensure a stable contact .
It would be the multipin connectors at the front near the radiator, if the car is approaching 100,000 klms with city driving, you may wish to think about replacing the Lambda sensors, if the connectors are cleaned and the error messages don't go away, Colin.