Hi,
i recently bought a 2nd hand 147 gta (my second alfa) and have been reading up on the Diff issues and was wondering if there is an easy way to tell if the Q2 diff has been installed in my car or not.
i don't know if it has ever been installed or not but i can ask the single servicer in the log book to see what they have done to the car so far, but was wondering if there was a tell tale sign on the different Diff
thanks for any help
Tim
Does it have noticeable torque steer when you put your foot down/accelerate rapidly ?
Early 164's had noticeable torque steer indeed, you could almost change lanes automatically when overtaking with a momentary lapse of concentration.
i picked it up yesterday but will give the torque steer test a try. Do you have experience with stock versus Q2 diffs ? will the torque steer be much lower on Q2?
I had a Q2 fitted early on, torque steer was reduced so much I don't notice it anymore.
Given the cost to fit the Q2 (around $2K), I would expect the seller to point out if it was fitted. You could also check with the place that services the car, if it has been regularly serviced at the same place - cos presumably they would fit it.
Chances are, it's not fitted.
As above, it greatly reduces torque steer. It also greatly improves power-down, so in the dry, you can turn off the 'ASR', and not expect any wheel spin. You can also 'steer' the car with the accelerator; unlike most FWDs, if you want to tuck the nose in, squeeze on more power, and it will turn-in tighter. So rather than understeer, it helps reduce it considerably.
Yes, I have a Q2 in my car.
:)
Well less than 3 months down the track the stock diff (i assume) gave out ...
it lunched on itself when turning from a stopped position into my driveway with the steering hard over
I think my previous question was answered, not to angry about it since it is under 2nd hand dealer warranty still, i will see to it that a Q2 is fitted and hopefully at just the difference in cost for getting the car on the road.
This all happened with only 40 kms of driving after i got the car back from a different repair (also under warranty) when the alternator messed itself up, apparently they need to shift the engine or drop suspension to access the alternator and i reckon the non-alfa service mob stuffed something up when they put it back together (dealer didn't give me an option on who would fix the alternator), thankfully the dealer okayed getting the Diff sorted out at my alfa service specialist.
i really like the car and am still hopeful that this, once fixed, will be the end of my hassles ... fingers crossed
oh well, not that it helps the OP, but for those reading for reference, the standard diff is open... only real way to check is to jack up the front and rotate one wheel. if the other doesn't move its standard... if it does, q2 is likely installed as its a torsen lsd.
the advice of giving the car stick while steering and looking for torque-steer is a bit odd... what does the driver have as a base line comparison... plus dunno about giving the stock unit too much hard work as they're known to go bang...
sorry to hear the OPs constant dealer returns... its a biatch, but could be worse and outta warranty!
Quote from: tim_h on September 14, 2010, 07:00:58 PM
Well less than 3 months down the track the stock diff (i assume) gave out ...
it lunched on itself when turning from a stopped position into my driveway with the steering hard over
That is the common way I've read the standard diff fails, under power while turning. Commiserations, but good thing it's covered by warranty.
Quote from: wankski on September 14, 2010, 09:19:02 PM
the advice of giving the car stick while steering and looking for torque-steer is a bit odd... what does the driver have as a base line comparison...
??? Torque steer is the phrase given to the effect of heavy acceleration when driving a high powered front wheel drive car in a straight line. Without a LSD the direction of the car can change, hence it is being steered by the torque ... really one wheel is getting more power than the other and turning. That's my humble definition of the term. From experience I had a TX5 Turbo that would put half the car in the next lane ... the GTA's with Q2's are much more civilised.
Jacking the front of the car up sounds like a good practical way of checking though.
Quote from: wankski on September 14, 2010, 09:19:02 PM
oh well, not that it helps the OP, but for those reading for reference, the standard diff is open... only real way to check is to jack up the front and rotate one wheel. if the other doesn't move its standard... if it does, q2 is likely installed as its a torsen lsd.
Cheers for the info, i would have been willing to test that had it not broken down.
I haven't read of a Q2 failing yet. I very much doubt you had anything but an original diff fitted. Also unlikely that the alternator replacement was related. They just break, with most people describing exactly the same kind of circumstance as you (hard lock/turning, low speed).
Very, very lucky it will be replced under warranty, and hopefully the full amount. ATECO themselves - not that they may be involved in your case - have typically be reluctant to come to the party in covering costs.
'It won't happen to me' is typical of many owners. Hopefully people will learn from this.
All the best. The Q2 is about the best mod you can do to these cars.
:)
Well it has been covered by the warranty, I only drove it under 2000kms and had it for less than 3 months so the dealer would be quite wrong to say that i was to blame (he has been pretty good so far all things considered, though he might be cursing the bloke who he bought it from).
I am paying $250 for the difference of the Q2 versus standard diff. It is sitting at Cileberti Motors and i had a look at the damage, hole in the diff housing and also the gear box housing (about the size of a box of matches) and lots of little gear teeth everywhere. I am currently waiting on the gearbox housing to arrive so they can put it back together.
So all up $250 and 3 weeks out of action for a Q2 diff.
that's a really good deal! worth it! ;)