Hi, i'm just wondering if people have an opinion on 98-03 Gtv's and their differences such as 5 0r 6 speed and the differences in phase 1 and 2 apart from cosmetics. Is their much difference in the 3.0 v6 in these models?
Hi
ENGINE
Phase 1 and 2 share the same 3.0 V6 with, I gather, very small differences (exhaust manifold?) – 220hp.
The phase 3 car has the 3.2 V6 in common with the GTA's – 250hp. The V6 is a superb motor.
Phase 1 and 2 I think have the 2.0 Twin Spark motor, phase 3 the 2.0 JTS.
Based on my research the twin spark is a better choice than the JTS because it has fewer maintenance issues.
GEARBOX
Phase 1 cars have 5 speeders, phase 2 and 3 have six speeders – all good.
DIFFERENTIAL
All cars came out of the factory with a standard diff, highly recommend changing to LSD because the standard diff occasionally breaks causing all sorts of mayhem. About $2K installed.
SAFETY
Phase 2 and 3 cars have EBD I think, phase 2 does not.
BODY
I guess you only need to look at some pics to see the differences!
RESEARCH
The book I have attached is a fantastic source of info, also there is a road test book which provides a lot of insights.
JEMREMY CLARKSON
Find the Clarksons 'The GTV is daft but I absolutely adore it' video and you will want to buy one tomorrow!!!!
Hope this helps, Al
Great advice
Personal view is these cars become more desirable in years to come featuring the Italian busso engine and looks stunning...q2 diff upgrade is a must and make sure timing belts changed on time
Thanks for that info! i just sold my 156 jts, great car and a lot more reliable than i expected but i just can't help wanting a 3.0 V6! To me the GTV has got a lot of 'timeless' appeal in it's styling and form. Perhaps not the most practical car,but i think i would be buying one to drive only a few days a week to work on long winding roads with very little traffic, so i'm thinking the extra fuel would not be to horrific. What has put me off a little has been really stiff clutches in some i'v tried, does this indicate a clutch on the way out?And i'v heard if you blow a diff, you can wreck the gearbox as well? Do these break with strong throttle, or does it just happen randomly?
Usually when a clutch starts to get heavy, it means the clutch is on the way out,....however if you don't know what a new clutch versus and worn clutch feels like, then you will have to rely on a service record stating any work done, for peace of mind, take it to an Alfa Romeo specialist to look it over, before handing over any $$$.
The diffs turn x amount of times and then they break, you can be backing out of your drive first thing in the morning and it breaks.
When it breaks it smashes the gearbox casing, which is big $$$ and the remains of the gearbox has to come out to be repaired.
Might be a good idea to put a new clutch in when the Q2 is installed, Colin.
I drove half a dozen 3.0 and 3.2 litre cars before I bought mine and the clutch pedal in all of them was light and very easy to use. In regards to the diff issue, it would seem that they are more likely to break in warmer climates. Breaks are most common in GTAs but that might be because there are more of them around than (3.2) Phase 3 GTVs? I thought that this might only be a 6 speeder issue, but I came across a guy in the UK who had broken a diff on a 5 speeder.
Anyway, don't get too focussed on one of the very few negatives, buy one and enjoy!!
The diff doesnt just deliver more reliability, it also delivers a superb drive.
Cheers, Alan.
To whet your appetite...
Drool!! i did try one that had a new clutch and it was easy to depress but on that one i thought the engine felt a bit tired and the cambelt time was up. I'v heard that the 6 speed is more associated with braking diff's, but as you say it can happen on 5 speeds. The one's i'v looked at have around 115 -160 ks on the clock and have all been phase 1 models. I like the dash on the phase two's but i prefer the front on p1 and 2's compaired to the p3's.In my search i still havn't found 1 with the q2 diff retro fitted , although i'v seen some GTA's with it on.I'm wondering about the cost of getting a q2 fitted with a new clutch $
One observation I would make is that there are a number of (mostly engine) parts on a phase 1 v6 that are specific to that model alone, and are next to impossible to find. Things like the air intake between the air flow meter and throttle butterfly, very common for them to split, and impossible to find. The phase 2/3 tends to share most engine parts with all the other 24v v6s (156/147/GT), so makes life a bit easier. Not to mention they seem to have sold many more of them, so the GTV specific parts for the later cars are also easier to find.
On the flip side, I prefer the throttle pedal response of the cable operated butterfly in the phase 1 to that of most of the electronic butterfly cars, although some are better than others....
The phase 2 is my personal preference also, the deeper grill on the phase 3 was a successful facelift but does not in my opinion look as harmonious as the phase 1/2 grill. The silver centre console and round vents on phase 3/3 cars gives the interior a lighter, brighter, more 'modern' feel – in my humble opinion.
Q2 is about $1700 - $2000 fitted, clutch kit might be a few hundred on top of that. Monza Motors might be the closest of the club sponsors to you, give them a call, I am sure they could give you an estimate of costs.
The whole diff thing is tricky. I often think that I know too much and would be better off in total ignorance of problems. There are lots of GTV owners I am sure who have never heard of breaking diffs who have thoroughly enjoyed their cars for many years without ever experiencing problems!!
147 and 156 GTA owners perhaps chose their cars more for their performance attributes, and in my experience are more clued up about the diff issues. Huge generalisation, but GTV owners are more concerned with style (and fair enough too). This is perhaps why there are only a few GTVs out there with LSDs.
I hasten to say that the 156 and 147 GTAs are stunning cars to look at as well as to drive.
Cheers,
Al
Yes sometime ignorance is bliss!,The 147 and 156 GTA's would be great but the GtV's are a bit more in line with my budget at the moment and i find the style to my taste, i'v also seen a few GT's with the 3.2, mmmmm!That cost of a q2 with a new clutch sounds ok depending on the initial cost of the car, one thing to factor in i think.
I think that the 916 series GTVs have hit the very bottom of their depreciation curves and represent very good value. The older, higher kilometer GT prices are not far off the GTVs meaning that you choose between the Bertone body and the Pininfarina. I like the Pininfarina body for its styling panache (whats the Italian equivalent of pinache?).
Al.
Yes the GTV 's have become very affordable and i can't see them getting that much cheaper, the 156 jts that i owned lost about 3 grand value in one year!Well, most cars lose value over time.. Maybe fuel prices will have a huge effect on their potential future value! According to a few mechanic's that i'v spoken to, the diff change on a GTV does not involve taking the gearbox out, and because of that a clutch change will cost a lot more, doe's that sound right?
The Q2 diff from what i have been told, is replaced with the gearbox in the car, the clutch on the other hand is a gearbox out job.
Your old car the Alfa 156 4 cylinder, when it needs a new clutch, the gearbox has to be removed, on the series 1 1998-2002 and series 2 2002-2004, the airconditioner has to be degassed and the airconditioning pipes removed, to get the gearbox out, on the series 3 [facelift] 2004-2006, Alfa Romeo run the airconditioning pipes around the offside of the car, for this reason and in the process, made it harder to change the serpentine belt and the timing belt, on the 147 twin spark they ran the pipes on the offside, i read this in the Alfa Romeo workshop manual CD, Colin.
Quote from: colcol on July 07, 2014, 09:25:52 PM
on the series 1 1998-2002 and series 2 2002-2004, the airconditioner has to be degassed and the airconditioning pipes removed, to get the gearbox out.
Umm... Nope. Absolutely not.
I hear that the phase 1 GTV's with the five speed don't break diff's as often because of the fact that narrower wheels, with less road grip, have more 'give' in that when power is applied they spin easier, so put less pressure on the diff?
Less grip or less power/torque I don't know (given that the biggest problem is with 3.2 litre cars).
It may be the case that a lot of European P1 3.0 litre cars had 16in wheels with narrower tyres. 17in teledials might even have been an option in Australia. The problem might also be related to 1st gear ratios in the 5 and 6 speed gearboxes?
Al
Thank's for that advice! if you were checking a 3.0 or 3.2 v6, is there any way of telling the condition by the sound? eg, tappet noise, etc', and would you stay away from a v6 that had a cambelt break and was fixed?
I would get one with a service history and if the cambelt had broken, see who did the work on fixing it, have it checked over by an Alfa Romeo Workshop, to see if there are any outstanding issues, one of the things i have heard with the Busso in the new Alfa Romeo models, is that because the engine is mounted east west, the oil filter is hard to get to without moving the air conditioner / power steering pump, so sometimes it doesn't get changed, like who will pay say $100 for an oil filter change, if i had one, i would set up a remote oil filter, so you can get to it, Colin.
Quote from: alanm on July 03, 2014, 01:38:19 PM
The phase 3 car has the 3.2 V6 in common with the GTA's – 250hp. The V6 is a superb motor.
Just clarifying ... The 3.2 v6 Phase 3 isn't exactly the same as a 147/156 GTA. Due to engine bay limitations the manifold used in the Phase 3 GTV is different ... which means it is slightly less powerful with 176kW as opposed to the 184kW in a GTA.
Just clarifying further ... it would still be awesome. Love the Busso.
Still looking! Still looking!, my search has included 147 GTA's, most seem to have the q2 retro fitted and even though i don't think they have that classic appeal that a GTV has, they still press all the right buttons! Can anyone tell me what the ground clearance is on the GTV! My driveway is a bit 'bumpy' and im not that sure a Gtv would clear the kerb.
I'v tried a few GTv's and Gta's and i'm not really sure! On paper the Gta seems to be a technically better car but it does not get my pulse racing as much as the Gtv,although the Gta does that too! It's one of those head vs heart decisions. The Gta has got a bit more 'grunt' and appears more modern in terms of dynamics, but the GtV seems to give a more thrilling impression of speed, the way you sit lower, look through the little windscreen and feel the acceleration and the road fly under you, very 'ko-kartish, i also like the simple layout of the dash as it's a bit retro, very sporty and almost a 60's-70's feel, although the GTA from different angles almost looks like a modern day hotrod, especially with the bonnet up!
Hi,
Yes, I was looking at 147 GTAs when I bought my GTV.
At the end of the day you are choosing between a car that's shape is determined by functional considerations - comfortable rear seats, a boot that you could fit a weeks shopping in - and a car thats shape is almost purely determined by stlyle. I love the look of the GTA, but I love the Pininfarina No compromise coupe design more. 220ish hp vs 250? For me after a few months of ownership, it doesn't really matter, the experience is superb either way.
Once again for me comes back to J Clarksons comment - its daft but I absolutely adore it.
Al
Well if this doesn't finalize your decision then we're lost. My vote is for the 916 series, more than enough boot space and its the only Alfa that you can climb into in style :P
Yes your right , that boot has plenty of space,My missus' is pregnant at the moment but i'm sure i could squeeze her in! Those picture's express some very sexy curves and great proportions, and er', the girl in the photo brushes up alright as well
These additions would be great drink holders as the GTV doesn't have any, just like the 156 and 166, Colin.
Baby on the way, ohhhh. The 916 is certainly not stroller/baby friendly :(
You may have to go the hatch after all, as you can see there's more room for babes and toys compared to the GTV...
That's ok, i would use my old falcon for that, the kids(there's 3 of em) can squash their chupa chumps in the seats as much as they like,or throw up! I could also bribe the kids to behave, so they can ride with dad in the Alfa, the kids who don't fit will just have to walk
Ha ha, yeah that was my ethos when the cherubs were smaller. They certainly learnt that their priority was below the Alfa 8)
Hey guys, hope it is ok to chime in on this thread. I remember trying a GTV6, GTV and spider all when they were new. I think they would have all been series 1 cars from memory. I enjoyed them all, each had their own character. I also a few years later on tried out a GTV6 again which was for sale at the time for $24K. I recall enjoying the drive.
I had both a 1750 GTV and my '03 156 sportwagon (JTS) at the time. The thing being I remember feeling in a strange way that the 916 series GTV(6) kind of reminded me of my 1750, except that it was a more modern car. I had previously owned both an Alfetta Gt and sedan but kind of never gelled with these cars. I loved my GTV despite all of its faults.
Over the years since, I have been watching the prices for the 916 GTVs etc falling to very low prices of affordability and again been wondering if perhaps now might be time to take the plunge and get one. There seem to be a fairly decent range on offer on Carsales. etc. Of course they aren't really that practical but that is ok. Similarly while I paid $20k for my 156, 7 years ago it too now is not worth all that much even though its in good condition and doesn't have relatively high kms on it (134).
So the question is should I or not ?? I really think I like the series 2 cars the best. Not sure exactly why, but truthfully are they a better option than the series 1 (cost/reliability etc), and also I think I really would like a V6. What is the 6 speed box like in comparison to the 5 speed. Fuel economy is not really the consideration given I don't drive to work. I am just wondering though is the extra cost of the V6 in maintenance worth it (suspect so given the Busso music) and how do people who have such cars find the handling, is understeer/torque steer really an issue for normal road use, or perhaps only if pushed to the limit ?
There is a car for sale right now which seems to be pushing all the right buttons for me, so hence my questions/opinions/advice being sought. Cheers Dave
Hi Dave,
In regards to the choice between Australian delivered Phase 1 and Phase 2, I think the only significant technical differences apart from the 6sp gearbox were the upgrade to Bosch 5.3 ABS system with EBD and the introduction of the auto drop feature for the windows that lowers the glass about 10mm when the door is opened and raises it again when the door is closed. This creates a better window seal with less noise.
Most of the other upgrades were aesthetic (stuff that I personally like).
– A silver centre console which looks good and does not suffer from the black sticky surface on the P1 cars
– All have momo seats (maybe some P1 cars don't ?)
– Colour coded side skirts (P1 has black plastic)
– Zender rear spoiler an option on most P2 cars, I think it finishes the tail off nicely, some not so sure...
– Very slightly different grille
I have only driven 1 P1 car, in my opinion the 5sp feels the same as 6sp – slick (miraculous coming out of one of my transaxle cars!) 5 speed MIGHT be slightly less prone to breaking its diff?
Handling is amazing, though my car does have Q2 diff, Koni dampers and Pirelli PZero tyres. Car seems to go exactly where you point it, no body roll, amazing grip. Maybe a whiff of torque steer in 1st gear but nothing like a 147 GTA that I drove without Q2. I swear it would have changed lanes if I had let go of the steering wheel. I must say have only driven the GTV enthusiastically on tight winding roads not on the track, someone else might have better experience with the handling.
The twinny might be excellent, but the Busso V6 is sublime end of story. Buy one.
Al
Hi Al
Many thanks for the feedback/recommendation. First hand experience is what I was interested in. In the past I had been thinking of an Alfetta GTV6 but I really dislike the gearbox and a slightly smaller sports car would suit me better. Afterall, I do have the Sportwagon for carrying stuff.
As I mentioned I have only had a few short drives in the 916 GTVs and as there are none to test drive down here, I don't really wish to go in blind. I kind of did that with my 156 and it has worked out fine, but nethertheless it is better to be informed.
I well appreciate the difference that decent tyres, shockies etc can make. I upgraded my 156 with Bilsteins, Pirelli P7s plus rebuilt front end and that made such a difference to it. I was aware of the Q2 diff replacement recommendation. Where do you get one of these from ??
Might be best to follow up on a number of cars to find out more about their service history etc and go from there. Cheers Dave
Mate, couldn't find the post on ausalfa, but there was a resent FS thread for a v6 GTV. The seller is looking at expressions of interested as he isnt posting a price and is pumping up the car as 'the best'. I think its a 99 (phase 1), dark blue with light tan interior. Colours go very nicely IMO. It has apparently only travelled 55K kms. Used car market is crap at the mo, so if your negotiation skills are reasonable it sounds like a worth while look?
Dave, if one of the Vic cars is of particular interest let me know I might be able to take a quick look to qualify them for a pre purchase inspection or a flight to Melbourne. The red Sth Yarra car is about 5 Klms from where I live, the gunmetal Carlton one a little further. I know what's its like buying long distance, my 75 was from Brisbane, the 156 and the GTV from Sydney. The GTV came back to Melb via Bathurst :D
Al
Hi Alan
Many thanks for that, I might PM you re this. I really appreciate the offer to help. The red one certainly interests me, the grey one too could though it is a little more pricey. I have the ph number for the guy selling the red one and had been thinking of giving him a ph call to talk about the car. It seems to have some good service history, but worth knowing if there are any mechanical or other important issues to be aware of.
When I bought my 156, I flew to Sydney, test drove it, liked it, payed for it and had a road trip home. Was a great into to it. Last year I bought a Giulia from Adelaide and had it transported home, so distance doesn't have to be a factor.
I do need to think about this and whether or not (probably should) to try to sell my 156.
I've had 2 x V6 spiders, 2001 and 2003.. both of them I managed to kill the Diff and gearbox...
I was lucky with the 2003 was still under warranty and even through Alfa Italia in Sydney tired to get out of it, they honoured the warranty (since I've purchased 3 new Alfas from them).
The 2001 I wasn't so lucky, ended up costing me 6k for a second hand diff (limited slip) & second hand gearbox, new clutch and a mate installed it all for next to nothing.. I love my mates.
So far, two year, no issues and I drive it like it should be driven.
So the Diff upgrade is a must