Hi,
Recently my transmission started playing up. It started with the shift from 4th to 5th being a bit delayed, sometimes requiring me to back off the accelerator. Then reverse wouldn't kick in or kick in delayed. Then it would grind into reverse like the clutch wasn't engaging. I adjusted the clutch position rod as it was off by a millimetre and a bit, and it's a bit worse. Now sometimes it shifts into gears smoothly, and sometimes I need to back off the accelerator. Also reverse is hit and miss, sometimes it goes in fine, sometimes it's delayed, and sometimes it doesn't go it, but it doesn't grind. Anyone know what my issue might be, I feel like a new clutch is needed but don't know if something else is at play.
What is the mileage of the car?
Around 160k
Well you are in the zone for when Selespeed clutches do start to fail and the symptoms that you describe are indicative of such.
If the mileage was much lower there are many other things I would suggest first, but at this point I think your self assessment may be spot on.
There is one sure way to tell, using diagnostics set the clutch rod to 28mm, then take the car for a drive. If after the drive you find the clutch rod is shorter again and below 28mm by a few mm, and if you keep repeating the process it keeps getting shorter, then this indicates that the clutch pressure plate spring fingers are failing, or more likely, the thrust bearing is wearing its way through them.
I did a bit of investigating and found a few things.
When I start the car, I can put it into reverse easily (don't know if I was just lucky all the time though) but when I drive around a bit then put in reverse it sometimes engages slowly or doesn't engage the first time, turning the car off and on helped. Also when I start the car in neutral there is a bit of noise like something is rubbing, as soon as I select a gear it goes away, even when I put it back into neutral. I did notice that when I adjusted the clutch and calibrated it, the position did change. I had to overcompensate the adjustment in order for it to be at correct position after calibration. I haven't noticed a significant change after though.
Also no error messages pop up on Multiecuscan
Quote from: Dr_Doom on September 30, 2022, 06:53:30 PM
Also when I start the car in neutral there is a bit of noise like something is rubbing, as soon as I select a gear it goes away, even when I put it back into neutral.
Sounds like the Clutch Thrust Bearing is on it's way out, again, symptoms of a dying clutch. As I'm not there and can't give any further advice from this distance (My Psionic abilities have a limited range) I'd take it to someone in Melbourne who specialises in Selespeeds to confirm whether it is the clutch or not.
Can anyone recommend someone in Melbourne who knows what they are doing with Selespeeds?
Hi,
As I was driving yesterday I was stationary in first gear then the car just stalls, I turn the car back on and I heard a bit clanking like something was broken for 2 seconds and it goes away, cannot change gears stuck in neutral. After getting it towed I put the scanner in and it says that the clutch is at 10mm, however the actuator arm is at normal place. I try to adjust it but at 20mm the arm is adjusted to maximum. I think something broke within the clutch and I need a new clutch kit. But is it normal for the actuator arm to not move after this? I would have thought that it would move but no gears get selected. Right now it doesn't move at all, but I can still hear the pump working.
Most likely, as I previously suggested, the thrust bearing has worn its way through the pressure plate spring fingers. I did warn you.
Does anyone know if changing the clutch on selespeed is any different to a standard manual, or is there some extra steps. Can I remove the gearbox while keeping the robot on or does it have to be removed. Also should the clutch arm move without a clutch (or broken clutch)? Currently it doesn't move but theoretically I think it should move just no gears can be selected, or is there some feature that prevents that.
Quote from: Dr_Doom on October 03, 2022, 12:43:59 AM
Can I remove the gearbox while keeping the robot on or does it have to be removed.
No, Selespeed Actuator has to be removed
Quote from: Dr_Doom on October 03, 2022, 12:43:59 AM
Also should the clutch arm move without a clutch (or broken clutch)? Currently it doesn't move but theoretically I think it should move just no gears can be selected, or is there some feature that prevents that.
The most likely reason it can't move is because the thrust bearing that is attached to the clutch arm inside the gearbox is ploughed
through the Pressure Plate Clutch Fingers and is jammed.
Alfa Donnini Repairs in Malvern East, Beninca Motors in Surrey Hills, Mauceri Motors in Clayton, Maranello Pursang in Brunswick.
I just got the clutch replaced and it shift perfectly, except from 2nd to 3rd. Shifting up form 2nd to 3rd has a pause until it goes in, even if I release the accelerator, shifting down is ok though. The throw out bearing was completely broken, the housing shattered into bits.
Thanks for your help, I just need any ideas on why 2nd to 3rd isn't perfect.
Check in the following order -
1/ Was End Of Line calibration carried out?
2/ Was Clutch calibration carried out?
3/ Clutch rod not at correct length
4/ Pinch Bolt not tightened to correct torque
5/ Selection Sensor needs replacing
6/ Engagement Sensor needs replacing
Hi, I did the calibration and clutch rod adjustments before driving off. I managed to remove the gearbox without removing the actuator so the pinch bolt should be fine. If the sensors are going there should be a fault code stored but there isn't. I drove it for a bit and it has gotten a lot better since, I asked a Alfa specialist about this problem and he said that the computer had to relearn some of the changes and apply them. It works fine now (maybe not as good as other gear changes but very small difference) so I guess it's ok. Thanks for all your help with this.
Quote from: Dr_Doom on October 13, 2022, 12:11:59 AM
Hi, I did the calibration and clutch rod adjustments before driving off. I managed to remove the gearbox without removing the actuator so the pinch bolt should be fine.
Really? So what you're saying is that during the whole time the clutch was playing up previous to failing the pinch bolt couldn't have loosened slightly? As you say, it might be perfectly fine, but until you re-torque the bolt you'll never know. The symptoms you are describing are usually caused by either a loose pinch bolt or a worn engagement/selection sensor.
But kudos to you for getting it off without removing it, I just find it much quicker overall and less hassle by removing it.
Quote from: Dr_Doom on October 13, 2022, 12:11:59 AM
If the sensors are going there should be a fault code stored but there isn't.
That's not correct, the sensors will only show a fault if they have failed, lost connection or the connection/wiring to them have failed.
Worn sensors will not normally show a fault.
Quote from: Dr_Doom on October 13, 2022, 12:11:59 AM
I asked a Alfa specialist about this problem and he said that the computer had to relearn some of the changes and apply them.
It works fine now (maybe not as good as other gear changes but very small difference) so I guess it's ok.
So, you asked an Alfa Specialist? (What do you think I am, a hot cross bun?) ;)
That's NOT how the Selespeed system works. It does have adaptive learning, but after a clutch change and full calibration, and if everything is in working order, it should operate flawlessly. The fact it has gotten better is the adaptive nature of the system trying to compensate for the issues you are having.
Quote from: Dr_Doom on October 13, 2022, 12:11:59 AM
Thanks for all your help with this.
One is glad to be of service. Hope you have many more wonderful miles in your Alfa.
Hi, after a while I am now starting to run into a few problems.
This is an intermittent issue where the gears may shift crazy on their own or just slip into neutral.
A couple instances I could not get any gear engaged, somehow it works after I leave it for a while.
One thing that happened is that I could not engage 1st, only reverse. Then after shifting multiple times to hopefully get into 1st it works, sometimes going back to neutral or staying in gear. Then after taking off 2nd is not working correctly, sometimes skipping it or engaging 2nd, but then "engaging" 4th (it still feels like 2nd). From 4th I can shift down to 3rd and when I shift to 2nd, it changes to 4th almost immediately.
No error messages pop up on Multiecu and for some reason it only happens in the very early morning. Maybe temperature is a factor?
I am leaning towards the two selection and engagement sensors needing replacement, but I'm not sure if something else may be at play. I also want to figure out how to test the possible faulty parts so I can replace the correct part.
Think you may have any ideas?
Your assumption about worn/faulty Selection/Engagement sensors is a good place to start. These can wear to the point of causing such issues but still not throw up an error and will also pass the EOL calibration as well.
Now, you may want to be sitting down when you get a price for them as the PF2C Sensors are getting harder to find and are therefor becoming stupidly expensive, as such the price on them has just gone up. Alfaworkshop in the UK are selling them for around AU$345.00 ea. There are some places here in Oz still selling at the older/cheaper price, try Italian Automotive Spares in Melb or Arese Spares in Sydney.
Just one little piece of advice, DO NOT try to attempt to substitute cheaper alternative sensors, they will only cause you trouble, you want Magneti Marelli PF2C, Alfa part #71716195. And don't bother with trying to use used items either, as they will have wear in them as well, so wasting your time. You have been warned . . . . :o
;)
However, before buying set may I suggest that you do two things if you haven't already done them first -
1/ Clean the large 20 pin Actuator connector that sits between the battery and the thermostat.
2/ And as I have mentioned before Re-Torque the "Pinch Bolt"
Is there a way to test the sensors to see if they are good? Maybe checking resistance is within a correct threshold or something?
I'm assuming this is the same senor at a better price.
https://spareto.com/products/magneti-marelli-sensor-throttle-position/219244240500
As long as the one they supply is actually a Magneti Marelli item then it's an outstanding bargain. Well spotted.
Is access to the pinch bolt easy without removing the gearbox as Doom did?
I occasionally experience the same problem. Driving along an all of a sudden it drops to neutral, when shifting down. You can hear it click around trying to go into gear. It is resolved by taking the key out, unplugging to Selespeed loom, plugging back in and it is good to go. Not sure if this actually does anything or if it is just coincidence.
I have changed the sensors around but it happened again. That's how I found the spareto ones when looking at new ones.
Access is through the LH front wheel well.
After removing the LH wheel you will need to lower the gearbox a little by supporting it with a jack and undoing the three bolts that attach the engine mount to the frame, then slowly lower it until you have access to the Pinch Bolt.
Remove the sealing plug and you will now have access to the pinch bolt hole. You will also have to remove the rear right Actuator mounting bolt as it partially blocks access to the pinch bolt.
Pinch Bolt Torque is between 27nm - 33nm.
Great guide, thank you.
Are the three mount bolts easily accessible with the wheel off?
Yes
Thank you, it will be a job for the holidays.
Came across this video showing the pinch bolt locations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jx71nwbtdg
This may seem obvious but is this the mount that needs lowering?
Yes
Cheers, thank you. I checked as you mentioned three bolts but there is only one at the bottom.
Need to get the undertray off now.