Hi all
Just talking with the old man (who didn't shout me lunch today :-\) and he's pretty keen to get his '71 1750 GTV ready for the 10th Domain Hillclimb in Hobart this Sept.
One of the things he'd like to do is upgrade the front calipers, and I happen to have a spare set of 75/GTV6 ones sitting in my garage. I'm not really familiar with 105's so thought I'd throw the question out, what does it take to mount the Brembo's, or is there a better budget option avail? Rotor selection would be another thing to consider. He's planning to stick with the standard 14"(?) steel wheels and I also have no idea about clearance issues.
Any help would be appreciated.
Scott.
It's pretty straightforward, to use the standard 105 solid discs you need to separate the caliper halves and remove the 10mm (I think) spacer that widens them to suit the ventilated discs from the 75. Then bolt them back up with new o-rings (and everything else) Offer them up to the uprights and check that the caliper 'jaw' is centered over the disc - if not, you might need to pack it out from the upright with a thin steel spacer. (or pack the disc out from the hub the same way) Then a little hand pipe-bend work to get your flexible lines to mount up to the small hard lines neatly and you're done.
I'm running 15" wheels so not sure on and interference between the calipers and the wheels.
I found a couple of front ventilated discs from Eurosport in Adelaide who had a small run made up - they may still have some left if you're interested. Then you leave the calipers as is and just make sure they're centered on the discs the same way.
Having said that - the weight benefit of running the alloy calipers with solid discs is probably undone by going to ventilated :) I very rarely overheated the standard brakes and haven't done so with these - probably all just bling benefit really :)
Depending on your disc OD , I've heard you may need to shave a little off the pads to prevent them meeting past the circumference .
Not sure if that helps or just muddies the waters :) There's a couple of pics of my cobbled up install here http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/sedan-1963-1974/171691-66-super-resto-melb-oz-3.html#post939855 (http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/sedan-1963-1974/171691-66-super-resto-melb-oz-3.html#post939855) and some disc / caliper comparisons here: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/sedan-1963-1974/171691-66-super-resto-melb-oz.html#post931716 (http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/sedan-1963-1974/171691-66-super-resto-melb-oz.html#post931716)
Cheers,
just make sure you have the right caliper bolt spacing for the brembos first as well. They wont fit on the 2L ATE uprights, but on the smaller ATEs they will, but even then there are two types, one has 3" spacing and the other 3.5". So hopefully you have the 3"!
Yikes I only forgot the most important bit - Derek is absolutely right !!
There's some more info here: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/suspension-brakes-wheels-tires/20723-1st-gen-ate-brakes-3.html (http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/suspension-brakes-wheels-tires/20723-1st-gen-ate-brakes-3.html) in which I post some guff and Derek posts actual useful info :)
and here: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/sedan-1963-1974/167437-super-uprights-2.html (http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/sedan-1963-1974/167437-super-uprights-2.html)
And this too: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/suspension-brakes-wheels-tires/160317-upgrade-all-brakes-alfa-105-ts-75-milano-calipers-small-project-comments-please.html (http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/suspension-brakes-wheels-tires/160317-upgrade-all-brakes-alfa-105-ts-75-milano-calipers-small-project-comments-please.html)
Cheers,
Thanks Scott, those threads were a refresher for me too! So I was a bit off with my memory on the bolt spacing. The small ATEs have the same bolt spacing but can have different upright heights. So you need the small ate with the tall upright combo to fit Brembos.
So the best advice then is to go forth and find thyself a '66 Giulia Super with the correct, right and proper uprights.
Uh - to drive I mean, not just to rip the uprights orf ;P
:)
Thanks guys, some useful info there. will digest this info over a couple of beers.
scott.
To add to the above... you may need to trim the 105 disc rotor splash guards to fit them around the Brembo calipers. A Dremel tool or air powered die grinder does the job nicely.
By the way, I purchased a pair of 22mm thick ventilated rotors (ie with 105 stud pattern) from Vin Sharp here in Melbourne, which, as Scott says, means I didn't need to remove the 10mm spacer from the Brembo calipers.
Cheers,
Nick
A very timely thread for me, my caliper are sticking and I think my 2000 could do with new pads, rotors aswell.
It will be a 90% street car, is the 75 upgrade worth while and roughly what would the costs be?
Its something like this or maybe an alfaholics kit..but that might be overkill.
I *think* the general consensus is there's nothing wrong with the stock brakes on a street car in terms of fade etc, and the radial swept area of the pad on the disc is all but the same as the alloys - but...
Upgrading to the Alloy calipers on standard discs gives an unsprung weight saving, and if replacing very early ATE calipers you might get bigger pistons.
going further and using the ventilated discs probably comes out even compared to stock unsprung weight-wise - but you'll have more fade resistance with the vents...
Ventilated discs and alloy calipers look groovy. (this should probably be at the top :) )
Personally, (because everyone's entitled to my opinion :) ) when I started on the Super the discs were shot, the calipers were seized, I was already pulling the suspension to pieces to renew everything, and I started with the correct uprights for the brembo conversion - it wasn't too much of a stretch to get there :)
If your front brakes are fine I'd leave them be and spend elsewhere. From what I've heard/read - the braking is no more/less effective until you start to heat soak the std discs - then the ventilated discs might give you quicker recovery. I wonder if heading into 4-pot territory is where you start to feel a marked difference - at least in feedback if not braking ability.
Some cool morning coffee viewing for you lads.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vintagecustoms?ob=0&feature=results_main
3rd video down covers brakes in some detail.
Quote from: AikenDrum105 on March 14, 2012, 02:10:59 PM
I *think* the general consensus is there's nothing wrong with the stock brakes on a street car in terms of fade etc, and the radial swept area of the pad on the disc is all but the same as the alloys - but...
Upgrading to the Alloy calipers on standard discs gives an unsprung weight saving, and if replacing very early ATE calipers you might get bigger pistons.
going further and using the ventilated discs probably comes out even compared to stock unsprung weight-wise - but you'll have more fade resistance with the vents...
Ventilated discs and alloy calipers look groovy. (this should probably be at the top :) )
Personally, (because everyone's entitled to my opinion :) ) when I started on the Super the discs were shot, the calipers were seized, I was already pulling the suspension to pieces to renew everything, and I started with the correct uprights for the brembo conversion - it wasn't too much of a stretch to get there :)
If your front brakes are fine I'd leave them be and spend elsewhere. From what I've heard/read - the braking is no more/less effective until you start to heat soak the std discs - then the ventilated discs might give you quicker recovery. I wonder if heading into 4-pot territory is where you start to feel a marked difference - at least in feedback if not braking ability.
Well my brakes are grabbing and I had heard about the weight saving with the calipers. I dont want something full blown but I dont see the point in reco'ing my standard brakes if I can upgrade them slightly for the same price, or maybe even less?
I'd go for it then for sure - the uprights should be pretty cheap from a wrecker, the calipers vary depending on where you source them - but allowing $150 for a pair in serviceable nick should get you well clear, the rebuild kits are cheap too.
if you haven't renewed them for a few years, might be worth doing the two lower balljoints while the uprights are out - they're about $70 ea or so I think.. the tops usually last ages.
I think there was a nicely crossdrilled set of 105 front discs on ebay recently too....
Heh Heh - the slippery 'while you're in there' slope starts here :) (*cough* adjustable upper arms *cough*)
Cheers,
..... so I have come into a set of these elusive Alfa 75 alloy Brembo calipers, and whilst I need to re-source the correct uprights for the Duetto (thieved no doubt for a Giulia:) ) I thought I'd give them a rebuild along with my ATE's
Do we have a preferred supplier for rebuild kits, anything to watch out for ?
Craig
For gods sake, don't split the calliper, and don't let them soak in the parts cleaner/degreaser... The orings are very hard to find, and the degreaser will kill the o-rings. A mate of mine went through this with some Mercedes Brembos, never got them to seal again and had to buy a new set!
You have to split the caliper to remove the spacers if going solid disc. No prob if going vented :).
Yep, you have some great threads on it.
Looking for rebuild kits, or are these best sourced from the usual suspects OS?
Erm, lol, forgot about that. I've done it myself fer chrissake.