On the weekend while on a Sunday run, pulled up for morning coffee, and a Alfa Romeo 156 twin spark pulled in as well, as i thought he must be a club member, went over and had a chat to him.
Turns out he wasn't a club member, but had just pulled into the car park to go to the Chemist.
Asked him how his 156 was going and he said he hated it, as it was the worst car he had ever owned, as it was always breaking down.
Without looking, i said Selespeed problems?, no he said its a a manual!
It had broken down about 10 times, it would just stop, and start up again and be hard to start.
Who have you had to fix it, i asked?, the local mechanic, i said has he a scan tool?, yes but he can't find anything, was the reply.
So the problem is here, that the local mechanic hasn't the high level scanner required to do the job, as its only a generic scan tool.
A proper Alfa Romeo Examiner would find any past problem codes and tell you what the problem was, so the offending item could be pulled out and replaced.
I told him of some Service Providers in the Alfa Club who should be engaged to have a look at the 156, and stop this problem he has been having.
It is sometimes difficult to take your car 50 kilometres or so to get the car fixed properly, but what's the alternative, breaking down all the time?
I sometimes think that Alfa Romeo's long gone reputation for always breaking down is caused by these sorts of situations.
The local garage might be ok for oil changes and new tires, but for the nitty gritty you need to take it to a place that works on them all the time and has the right gear to do the job, Colin.
or even be a member of a forum like this.
how many of us would say from the symptoms you described that the problem is a faulty crank angle sensor? quite a few I expect.
Crank sensors fail when the car is hot and then comes good when the engine cools down, won't know unless you get it scanned, Colin.
Quote from: colcol on April 28, 2015, 03:06:52 PM
Crank sensors fail when the car is hot and then comes good when the engine cools down, won't know unless you get it scanned, Colin.
granted, you won't know for certain unless its scanned, but it would be a probable guess which could focus attention
Hi Colin,
Agree 100%. This is my first Alfa after many years of european cars (i am european so for me commodores and all those are exotics!) but have a lot friends with Alfas back in Spain, and main problem from my experience is poor maintenance. Sadly with and Alfa is not like with other modern cars, that you just service and forget, but with and appropriate care and love the new ones (the only I know) are prety reliable.
By the way know that I said this my gt jts just start to show for a few seconds the engine management light from time to time, bought the obd reader and getting fourth cylinder misfires so suspecting dirty injector, top of the engine or even catalityc converter, so cleaning all of them and trying to give some love to the alfa to see how it response. By the way if anyone around Sydney wants to read the codes of his car just let me know.
This was suposed to be a sort answer, sorry....
David
The thrust of the post was that the modern Alfa Romeo's are are pretty reliable piece of equipment, with all the Bosch electrics and GOOD connectors....unlike in the olden days.
If you are getting a misfire on cylinder no 4, mark the coil pack and move it to another cylinder and see if it misfires on that cylinder you put it on......unfortunately, the coils either work or not, so hopefully its a misfiring spark plug.
Pray its not one of those direct injectors that cost a fortune to replace and even more to remove and refit, as the engine has to be tilted to gain access.
Don't just drive it around and take it to backyarders with no experience of Alfa Romeo's, and when it goes wrong and say 'bloody Alfa Romeo's', Colin.
Col, and as you know it is very important to use the right fuel and oil as well as taking it to the right service centre. ;)
U might have to drive miles to find that specialised mechanic and it is a pain in the ever increasing gridlocks-especially sydney-but in the end u still end up saving time and dollar's as nine out of ten the specialist has seen the problem many times and can act on it without fiddling around and worse still get's on the phone and rings his other inexperienced mechanic's for opinions,stick to da Romeo's that are familiar wif da Alfa.
So the unhappy chappy hates his manual TS but won't get the proper people to check it out. Col, I hope you offered to buy it off him. Or suggested he post it for sale on here. I'm sure it would be much more appreciated among the fold!
He said its the worst car he has ever owned, in terms of breaking down, but he likes it as its nice to drive and has good power, fuel economy and comfort.
Naturally i gave him a heads up of places to go on his side of the city that would be able to scan his car and fix the problem, all the places were our sponsors, as they support our club, and because you see their adverts, you remember them easily, the ones that don't support us i can't recall, Colin.
after owning Japanese cars Australian cars and a (shudders) French car, my alfa is fantastic. the French thing was always having problems and was gutless as well
Quote from: colcol on April 28, 2015, 01:39:23 PM
I sometimes think that Alfa Romeo's long gone reputation for always breaking down is caused by these sorts of situations.
I am absolutely certain it is. My experience with the ten older Alfas that I have bought is that you have to undo all the damage and neglect from previous owners and their mechanics, but once you have them up to scratch they are very reliable. Newer Alfas are more reliable than some other makes.
I also want to add that my Series 1 manual V6 is without question the best car I have ever owned in 25 years and 15-or-so cars. After 3 years, it still makes me smile every time I put my foot down, and - in my view anyway - still looks better than any other 4 door saloon on the road.
How many recalls have there been for Alfa Romeo's lately?, Alfa Romeo are not up there with some of the more brands that are perceived to be more dependable than Alfa Romeo, Colin.
I wouldn't say my 156 JTS Selespeed is the worst car I've ever had (that was a Toyota Tarago/wombat) but it has had a few issues, all Selespeed related apart from a random misfire that seems to only occur on anything but Shell v-power.
I would never buy a selespeed again .
They really suck to drive and my gearbox is breaking whilst not being hammered, yes I look after it, yes I use MES, I even run Royal purple in the gearbox.
I've had to remove the gearbox end cap twice in two years to remove chunks of metal that blocked 4th, my only guess is it's the 1st gear breaking up due to the amount if times the stupid selespeed decides to downshift to 2nd just as I do it manually (in manual mode) which then causes my downshift to select 1st which creates a loud thump and I'm sure also damage, the only way I can think to avoid this is to just let it downshift or drive in city mode, which means it's just an automatic that shifts badly and I've never liked automatics. Tomorrow I am going to use epoxy to glue an earth magnet to the gearbox end cap in the hopes any more chunks get stuck near the magnet before they can land near the 4th selector.
Still got the random no 1st at traffic lights, I now just shift to N then 1 every time I stop or be sure to coast in 2nd for a few feet before stopping. Pump is good, accumulator is pretty new and holds pressure for about 6 minutes or every 3rd gear change, this issue occurs maybe once a month or two, I've checked clutch rod and it doesn't go away with a calibration.
Apart from the selepeed issues it's a great car, it doesn't even burn much oil since using 15w-60 Penrite. The selespeed issues almost make it dangerous tbh.
ColCol, would love to bump into you one day, always offering advise and never critical of anybody... love your work.
Oz3, totally agree with you. Each alfa i've picked up was the best of the worst when purchase and a litany of abuse and poor maintenacne by previous owners. I found garden hose stuck over the end of a spark plug/coil...WTF. A little TLC and bang a totally transformed vehicle...
Alfa81, i too had given some thought about glueing some sponge or magnet on the side cover to catch the metal. Having had to clean it out twice in less than a year, hmmm I think my daughter may be missing her timing with the clutch. Considering that is a quick 30min job, i felt i'd prefer to know how much of the gears are being chewed up so thought against the idea. If you do go ahead, if you have an old hard drive, they use the rare earth ceramic magnets, which are small/thin and super strong...
Hear what you are saying Alfa 81, i have also had a fair share of problems with the manual box in my 156, they include,
1. On about 3 occasions, when drag racing at the lights, i have beaten the 2nd gear synchro and fluffed the change and lost.
2. One time i was racing a relative in a twin spark 147, and i was never able to live it down.
3. On at least 2 occasions, it had jumped out of reverse when backing up.
4. I may have not correctly put it into reverse, but it should go in anyway.
5. Sometimes on the freeway, i forget to change up to 5th.
6. That would never happen with a Selespeed, as it would change up on its own.
7. I had to change the oil in it once, as the crappy gearbox internals were wearing out.
8. I had to jack the car up, because the drain plug was located UNDER the gearbox.
9. Can you believe it, to change the oil, you have to get under the car to do it.
10. Then in Alfa Romeo's wisdom, i needed a special tool to undo the drain screw.
11. Instead of using a screw with a slot in it, so the home handyman can use a screw driver.
12. They use a torx or star or internal hexagon, most likely something only an Alfa Dealer has.
13. Then i drained the oil and got it all over me.
14. I looked in the workshop manual and it said i had to use a Tutula or Selenia.
15. Whats wrong with good old fashioned 80-90 gearbox mineral oil?
16. Then i had to replace the oil, and because the fill hole is in stupid position, i couldn't pour from the can!!
17. So then i had to buy an oil gun, just to put oil in the gearbox.
18. Then i checked the oil and it was as clean as the day it went in.
19. So this stupid gearbox has wasted even more of my time.
20. Then i was doing some work on the consul and the rubber gearbox rubber was falling apart.
21. Some rubber had fallen down into the shift mechanism under the car.
22. I had to vacumn the bits of rubber out of the shifter.
23. Why didn't they have a drain hole so that the rubber bits can fall out.
24. If i hadn't got to it in time, i wouldn't have been able to change gears.
So there we have 24 faults in an Alfa Romeo 156 gearbox, it would never happen with a BM Troubleyou, Colin.
Quote from: Cool Jesus on May 23, 2015, 09:10:41 PM
ColCol, would love to bump into you one day, always offering advise and never critical of anybody... love your work.
Oz3, totally agree with you. Each alfa i've picked up was the best of the worst when purchase and a litany of abuse and poor maintenacne by previous owners. I found garden hose stuck over the end of a spark plug/coil...WTF. A little TLC and bang a totally transformed vehicle...
Alfa81, i too had given some thought about glueing some sponge or magnet on the side cover to catch the metal. Having had to clean it out twice in less than a year, hmmm I think my daughter may be missing her timing with the clutch. Considering that is a quick 30min job, i felt i'd prefer to know how much of the gears are being chewed up so thought against the idea. If you do go ahead, if you have an old hard drive, they use the rare earth ceramic magnets, which are small/thin and super strong...
Haha, that's exactly where I got magnets from, I'm wondering how to affix them to the outside of the end cover without them coming off, I'm thinking of using dynagrip dynasteel.
Quote from: colcol on May 23, 2015, 09:21:15 PM
Hear what you are saying Alfa 81, i have also had a fair share of problems with the manual box in my 156, they include,
1. On about 3 occasions, when drag racing at the lights, i have beaten the 2nd gear synchro and fluffed the change and lost.
2. One time i was racing a relative in a twin spark 147, and i was never able to live it down.
3. On at least 2 occasions, it had jumped out of reverse when backing up.
4. I may have not correctly put it into reverse, but it should go in anyway.
5. Sometimes on the freeway, i forget to change up to 5th.
6. That would never happen with a Selespeed, as it would change up on its own.
7. I had to change the oil in it once, as the crappy gearbox internals were wearing out.
8. I had to jack the car up, because the drain plug was located UNDER the gearbox.
9. Can you believe it, to change the oil, you have to get under the car to do it.
10. Then in Alfa Romeo's wisdom, i needed a special tool to undo the drain screw.
11. Instead of using a screw with a slot in it, so the home handyman can use a screw driver.
12. They use a torx or star or internal hexagon, most likely something only an Alfa Dealer has.
13. Then i drained the oil and got it all over me.
14. I looked in the workshop manual and it said i had to use a Tutula or Selenia.
15. Whats wrong with good old fashioned 80-90 gearbox mineral oil?
16. Then i had to replace the oil, and because the fill hole is in stupid position, i couldn't pour from the can!!
17. So then i had to buy an oil gun, just to put oil in the gearbox.
18. Then i checked the oil and it was as clean as the day it went in.
19. So this stupid gearbox has wasted even more of my time.
20. Then i was doing some work on the consul and the rubber gearbox rubber was falling apart.
21. Some rubber had fallen down into the shift mechanism under the car.
22. I had to vacumn the bits of rubber out of the shifter.
23. Why didn't they have a drain hole so that the rubber bits can fall out.
24. If i hadn't got to it in time, i wouldn't have been able to change gears.
So there we have 24 faults in an Alfa Romeo 156 gearbox, it would never happen with a BM Troubleyou, Colin.
urm, not sure why you're directing such sarcasm at me?
You're saying I should expect gearbox internals to break and for the selespeed to not select 1st for no apparent reason? As I pointed out its a great car with zero issues apart from the sillyspeed. The JTS is known to burn oil but I don't have that issue and since I use vpower in all my cars unless it's not available the misfire does not happen. It's a well known fact selespeeds are not that reliable, what do you suggest I do differently to avoid these issues? Go to another specialist to be told not to use the brake pedal? Rather than the novel you typed you could have just said I'm a moron, way less typing involved.
No harm intended, but just comparing a manual to a selespeed, and all the issues involved.
I have said it before, but Alfa should have made a full automatic available on the 4 cylinders, instead of the selespeed and had the selespeed as an option, they seemed to have managed to put a full automatic on the V-6, that doesn't have all the unreliability issues that the selespeed had, Colin.
Ok. It read like you were having a dig at me for complaining about little things. I really love this car but have decided to sell it while I can. I can't drive anywhere without thinking "is this the day the selespeed will self implode and I'll be stuck on the side of the road needing to be towed" I've driven piles of junk cars that give me more confidence lol. I know the engine and everything else won't let me down but a running engine isn't much use if you have no gears. the scary thing about losing 4th is because in manual I could just quickly change gear where the selespeed will leave you in neutral for several seconds before it gives up. You can double shift to skip 4th but that doesn't help when the computer decides you're too dumb to downshift And does it for you while locking out any input. Likewise in most new manuals that I've driven 1st won't engage at high speeds. The selespeed just slams it in and this happens so often I'm now driving in city mode but that makes the no 1st when stopping happen 9 times out of 10 rather than 1 in 50. Manual mode should be just that. I've never not downshifted in a manual before the revs drop too much unless I've forgotten I'm in a manual and come to a full stop in 5th Which I've done twice in over 10 years. It's like some cars where the manufacturer left cruise off the manuals because people won't downshift when needed. The selespeed could have been great and I'm sure the newer ones are much better but not the early ones. Simple things like an engine driven pump, bigger accumulator that can handle five to seven shifts and less computer interference.
Wow - I had a 156 JTS Sele for 8 years and all I had to replace was a failing Electrovalve o-ring seal. Cost about $10. I did the work myself and it took me about 40 minutes.
It was a hoot to drive and was ideal for MrsAlfa because she can't drive a manual, but finds Auto's boring - which of course they are.
Pity some banana drove their car into it :'(
Personally I prefer a manual but the Sele was good while it lasted - especially when you have a latte in hand: steering, drinking.. city mode. haha - although I STRESS that was the ONLY time I ever used City mode because it's generally useless.
I don't know how well the car was looked after before I bought it, but when I had it, it had Redline oil in the box, a calibration using MES every 3 months and a loving cuddle from time to time.
Maybe I was just lucky. ???
But Alfa Romeo had to start somewhere, and the first ones were not as good as the last ones, the development of the Selespeed brought us to the Twin Clutch Transmission, which is a pretty good piece of kit.
The issues the early Selespeeds had tarnished the reputation of the 147 - 156 series.
When you have issues with a car, you loose confidence and you are always worried it is going to leave you stranded, Colin.
Quote from: colcol on June 03, 2015, 08:33:49 PM
But Alfa Romeo had to start somewhere, and the first ones were not as good as the last ones, the development of the Selespeed brought us to the Twin Clutch Transmission...
Err, no.... Borg Warner brings Alfa to the TCT, in much the same way Borg Warner begat the DSG for Volkswagen. I imagine the Alfa version has some Marelli control bits bolted onto it though to keep the gods frustrated and selespeed tradition alive :)
Alfamelbs you're abskolutely on point with that last paragraph. It's the cuddle from time to time that differentiates a car owner from an Alfa owner. I do believe that it wasn't luck that you had zero issues with your sillyspeed, but it was your efforts at maintenance that kept it healthy. The ad was spot on as far as it not being a car, it's an Alfa. They have tight tolerances and are built to be driven not putter about in. As such it needs regular maintenance and the occasional cuddle. I... Yeah I've had to edit this rant a few times now, suffice to say that I doesn't need to cost $100s or $1000s to maintain your Alfa, you just have to care a little. If not get yourself another run of the mill mode of transport that never needs caring.
Absolutely, there are people that buy these cars who don't understand them and don't provide the necessary love and care they need. Something goes wrong and they blame the car. I don't get it, why buy an Alfa if you are not a passionate driver, have a real interest in them and have the money to maintain them. ???
Quote from: Cool Jesus on June 04, 2015, 08:08:14 AM
Alfamelbs you're abskolutely on point with that last paragraph. It's the cuddle from time to time that differentiates a car owner from an Alfa owner. I do believe that it wasn't luck that you had zero issues with your sillyspeed, but it was your efforts at maintenance that kept it healthy. The ad was spot on as far as it not being a car, it's an Alfa. They have tight tolerances and are built to be driven not putter about in. As such it needs regular maintenance and the occasional cuddle. I... Yeah I've had to edit this rant a few times now, suffice to say that I doesn't need to cost $100s or $1000s to maintain your Alfa, you just have to care a little. If not get yourself another run of the mill mode of transport that never needs caring.
Spot on.. and Garibaldi - you're on on the money too...
I was thinking about this last night actually. I've personally had next to no real troubles with either of my 156's. That's not to say I haven't spent a fortune on them both, not because they broke, but because, like most of us, we want to upgrade them, replace anything that even remotely looks worn out - to basically refresh them to near new.
But unless we bought these cars new - the chances are they were owned by one of those muppets you both speak of. If the car has not been looked after prior to our ownership, there may be niggles that are never ending.. case in point - the air con on my GTA; the previous owner never bothered to fix it when it died and left it for 5 years inoperable. So now, for me, just about the whole systems is buggered and is costing me a fortune and doing my mechanic's head in. Although he's been amazing, as he hasnt charged me for all the work - he could have but he's been kind to me! :)
Sele's are an example of this, in my case, mine was looked after from new - I assume. But if they weren't in their early life, then i can see them causing all sorts of problems even for owners that are fastidious about caring for their motors. The systems are so complex, and so few people really know how to deal with them - they become the devil incarnate.
Add to that the standard dealer fix / solution for any sele faults - replace the Actuator! any wonder they have a bad rep. >:(
I guess the muppets are just minding our future parts donors in a way. When I first read this thread it reminds me of the young bloke I helped out a week ago or so with a recent 98 gtv spider he bought for a grand. Absolute steal, yet not without its issues after 2 years of not seeing any road use. He's on his Ls, and assured me his dad had some tools for my visit I turn up to find the tools, or lack of, were a small hodge podge of nothing really onły just barely enough to work on their bicycles. They had no mechanical idea and having fixed all there immediate problems and pointing out future issues, I left thinking damn they are way over their heads with that spider. For instance I pointed out some holes in the roof canopy that need attention, but it's water tight! So with my finger disappearing in and out of the tears, ah no, when you washed it the water has just run down the sides of the interior liner into the car. Oh can we patch it with something, my heart just sunk at that point thinking if only I had Fiume it before you guys. Anyways, there around and the jump on here occasionally to voice their ignorance. Better for us? Maybe, maybe not.
Most people start with no experience, only passion.
A good teacher or leader will use that.
(... and tell them they're in over their heads, and on an expensive hiding to nowhere :) )
BWAH ha ha, yeah I should have said something but they were so happy :-X
As of now this topic has been read 808 times, i never thought that it would go for so long, and as ever, i am loving your experiences and passion for the Marque, keep the comments coming, Colin.
Nice... I totally agree... If you look after your Alfa, it will look after you...
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;D
And the Speedo always works in a Alfa 33, ha ha, Colin.