Hi everyone, I thought it would be a good idea me to sign up here and get into the community as a future Alfa owner. I'm 20, and just got my P's (I was a bit slow) and am approaching my first car purchase. I've got about $11,000 to spend and my current interest is a 2005 156 JTS selespeed to.
I guess I just need to hear from the people who know Alfa's best on whether this is the right choice. Personally I think of cars as more than just transport, as I'm sure is the case with other people here, and as it is a passion to me I wanted the kind of car that reflects that. So naturally I decided upon an Alfa.
What problems and running costs can I expect, who are the best people to know as an Alfa driver?
Anything you guys can say or advise would be great.
Cheers
Tazor
Welcome Tazor,
The Selespeed gearbox is a great thing, but can be temperamental. Most independant Alfa workshops (e.g. check out our club sponsors) have the experience to fix the selespeed at a reasonable price, but it will almost certainly let you down at some stage. I'd personally give it a miss (especially when I think about what I was like at 20, I'd barely get my Alfasud serviced much less want to pay for more serious repairs).
The 156 is a great car, I'd just consider getting a manual instead.
Running costs - imagine you'd got yourself a decent 156 manual, then servicing costs are pretty reasonable at an independent specialist. At a fairly frequent interval (60,000km or three years) you MUST get the timing belt replaced - others will advise the cost. This one can't be skipped or deferred or you run a big risk of the belt breaking and bending valves and it will be a very expensive repair bill indeed. Otherwise common things we see or hear about are thermostats and crank sensors that cause problems on these cars but not dramatically expensive to fix if they come up.
The best people to know are a good Alfa independent mechanic - depending on where you live we can recommend you a club sponsor in your direction. The club sponsors are experienced and well equipped, with the factory computer system required to diagnose and fix issues.
156 and 147 four cylinder cars seem like an ideal option for a special first car now - good choice!
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on March 17, 2013, 01:14:51 PM
Welcome Tazor,
The Selespeed gearbox is a great thing, but can be temperamental. Most independant Alfa workshops (e.g. check out our club sponsors) have the experience to fix the selespeed at a reasonable price, but it will almost certainly let you down at some stage. I'd personally give it a miss (especially when I think about what I was like at 20, I'd barely get my Alfasud serviced much less want to pay for more serious repairs).
The 156 is a great car, I'd just consider getting a manual instead.
Running costs - imagine you'd got yourself a decent 156 manual, then servicing costs are pretty reasonable at an independent specialist. At a fairly frequent interval (60,000km or three years) you MUST get the timing belt replaced - others will advise the cost. This one can't be skipped or deferred or you run a big risk of the belt breaking and bending valves and it will be a very expensive repair bill indeed. Otherwise common things we see or hear about are thermostats and crank sensors that cause problems on these cars but not dramatically expensive to fix if they come up.
The best people to know are a good Alfa independent mechanic - depending on where you live we can recommend you a club sponsor in your direction. The club sponsors are experienced and well equipped, with the factory computer system required to diagnose and fix issues.
156 and 147 four cylinder cars seem like an ideal option for a special first car now - good choice!
Thanks for the reply Evan!
How much does the selespeed cost to repair on average, and are there any ways to keep it maintained myself?
Also I live in Eltham, 3095 for location.
Thanks again!
Tazor
The Selespeed should be serviced once a year, this will help it stop you getting stranded when it senses a problem and to avoid any damage it just shuts down, the nearest place to you to get it serviced from Eltham would be Maranello Pursang Motors, 33 Colebrook Street, Brunswick, also you could try Monza Motors, Malvern Street Bayswater or Maceuri Motors in Clayton, Alfa Romeo optimisticly said on the release of the 156 series, that the belt change was 4 years or 60,000 klms, or whatever came first, then a string of cambelt failures made them reduce it to 3 years or 50,000 klms or whatever comes first, and every second cam belt change, put in a new water pump, Colin.
If you want an auto then this is your best bet
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/alfa-romeo-156-2005-14312402?base=1216&vertical=Car&cr=1&eapi=2&__N=1246 1252 1247 1282 1216&num=15&silo=Stock&items=[Make:ALFA ROMEO,Model:156,BaseEnabledBadge:V6]&sort=Year
Or
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/alfa-romeo-156-2005-13615443?base=1216&vertical=Car&cr=0&eapi=2&__N=1246 1252 1247 1282 1216&num=15&silo=Stock&items=[Make:ALFA ROMEO,Model:156,BaseEnabledBadge:V6]&sort=Year
Hey Tazor,
If you're looking for an Alfa mechanic near you there's Northern Alfa. His Name is Vince and has been working on Alfa's and Fiat's since he started his apprenticeship 20 years ago. His number is 0417 105 102. He's a top bloke and a real genuine mechanic.
Also if you're still keen on a selespeed, like a few have said, as long as the car is maintained and serviced regularly and the selespeed is calibrated, then you shouldn't have any issues with it. Obviously once the km's start to rise, the problems would be from wear and tear as anything else would be from driving the car. Like it has been mentioned you'll need to do the timing belt around every 50,000km or 3 years to be safe, i wouldn't risk waiting until 60,000km, heard too many horror stories. One guy bought a 156 with 116,000km and wanted to wait until 120,000km but while stopped at a set of lights, the engine stopped. His cambelt snapped, to fix the car it ended up costing him a few thousand $$, he was kicking himself for not doing it when he bought the car like everyone had told him. That's why if you do a search online everyone stresses the point in getting the cambelt changed as a must. Also with a JTS you'll just have to monitor the oil level a lot more than a TS or a V6 due to the direct injection engine, but other than that as long as you service it and change the oil every 7,500km on the JTS you'll be fine. I know the book may say longer, but again due to the direct injection system the oil gets contaminated a lot quicker than a TS or V6.
There's an Alfa Romeo spare parts place in Melbourne called Italian Automotive Spares, they're located in Brunswick and they have a whole range of new parts in stock, so if you get stuck they're only a phone call away. Also 1 of the guys there is an Auto Electrician and he's been rebuilding both the selespeed pumps and the actuators for years and knows the system inside out.
Overall if you're budget is $11,000 just make sure you buy the best condition car you can for that money and also leave some spare to do a service and cambelt once you get it. At least in your mind you know you've done it and won't have any issues a few months into ownership.
Hope the quick run down and everyone elses input helps with making a decision on which model you want to purchase. Also once you get it join the club and support all the local guys, mechanics/spare parts guys, cause if we don't there won't be anyone that will help with you car left and then you'll be stuck bring it to a Kmart Tyre & Auto service centre and they'll do more damage to the car than good.
Quote from: AR753.0ltr on March 18, 2013, 08:47:38 AM
Also once you get it join the club and support all the local guys, mechanics/spare parts guys, cause if we don't there won't be anyone that will help with you car left and then you'll be stuck bring it to a Kmart Tyre & Auto service centre and they'll do more damage to the car than good.
+100. Very well put.
Quote from: Tazor on March 17, 2013, 01:22:39 PM
How much does the selespeed cost to repair on average, and are there any ways to keep it maintained myself?
I couldn't say an 'average' - there seems to be a few different failure modes, from solenoids and switches to the pressure accumulator, to the hydraulic pump. When the cars were first sold the dealers had no choice but to replace the entire selespeed system (multiple thousand dollars) but now I believe parts are independently replaceable. Others know a lot more about this area than I do - but it's worth research.
To do work yourself you'll need to buy a computer cable and one of the programs that allow you to connect to the ECU and diagnose faults, and execute the selespeed calibration (or clutch bleeding routines etc.). I used to muck around with Alfadiag, but it seems that FiatECUScan is the most popular now: http://www.multiecuscan.net/
As already mentioned, the key is to buy the best example you can with a meticulous Alfa mechanic service history, as the unit requires a yearly clutch rod adjustment and EOL calibration. Preferably get a later model, as these tend to have ironed out most of the issues associated with earlier selespeed trannys. Having previously owned one (albeit the 159 selespeed) they can be bucketloads of fun in track, but regular upkeep is mandatory to it lasting a long and hopefully trouble free life.
Thanks everyone for the helpful replies, if I can find a v6 monza in my price range when I buy then that'll be better than the ti. I will definitely get the timing belt changed and the car serviced at an Alfa mechanic as soon as I get it. Also those cars that were linked look awesome, the 15k one looks worth driving to SA to pickup, and awesome color combo.
Now you're talking. I've driven a 156 v6 Auto a few times and it's fantastic - the auto is great (for an auto) and sounds like it's pretty trouble-free, built by Aisin. The v6 is of course amongst the best engines ever built, sounds fantastic, and works really well with the auto.
Quote from: Evan Bottcher on March 18, 2013, 12:03:29 PM
Now you're talking. I've driven a 156 v6 Auto a few times and it's fantastic - the auto is great (for an auto) and sounds like it's pretty trouble-free, built by Aisin. The v6 is of course amongst the best engines ever built, sounds fantastic, and works really well with the auto.
See obviously I want the V6 as my first preference, but I love the TI interior!
Out of curiosity how much would it cost to get the car official Alfa Red?
Well if you want a V6, you could get a 156, and look forward to reasonable depreciation during the time of your ownership. Or, for 11k, you could get one of these... http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/alfa-romeo-alfetta-1985-14495588 (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/alfa-romeo-alfetta-1985-14495588) ....., enjoy a far more entertaining drive, be safe in the knowledge that you own one of the classic Alfas of modern times, and be assured that your car will not lose any value. I reckon within 2 years 156GTAs will be approaching 10k, normal V6s will be around 3-4, and 2.0 selespeeds about $500. GTV6s, and indeed 75s (3.0 and twinsparks) are already on their way up.
A GTV6, if it's been looked after well, (and realistically, any of them available for around 10k will be in very good condition), will be as reliable as a 156 for similar money. The same caveats apply to these cars, belts need to be changed at regular intervals, and there are other consumables which will need to be changed occasionally. Get in the club, talk to the regulars and to the service providers, and all of these will become clear. Even better, buy one from a club-member, as the best cars usually just get sold within the club before going on the market.
On a twisty road, the 156 might be slightly faster, but the GTV6 will be a lot more fun, will sound far better doing it, and will look a thousand times better as well. I honestly think that maintenance costs would be similar, if not less for the GTV6. Of course, the air-con is shithouse, if not non-existent, but hey.....
Just putting it out there, your post topic is "Opinions on first car".....
Dera Tazor,
Can you drive a manual, if so please consider this :
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=10421.0;last_msg=64433
It is my car, it has the 3.0 L V6, it is a lot of fun to drive and it is reliable and you get to save a lot of your cash.
If you are interested i am just in Mont Albert
Cheers,
Mike
I think this is the post you're talking about Mika?
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=9972.msg61685#msg61685
Thanks Evan
Quote from: AR753.0ltr on March 18, 2013, 08:47:38 AM
If you're looking for an Alfa mechanic near you there's Northern Alfa. His Name is Vince and has been working on Alfa's and Fiat's since he started his apprenticeship 20 years ago. His number is 0417 105 102. He's a top bloke and a real genuine mechanic.
I've never heard of Northern Alfa. Where abouts are they?
Northern Alfa is located in Thomastown, 18D Temple Drive.
Vince is his name, he's the guy that had the orange and blue Giulia Super Turbo the last few years at the show in Alfa Show. Many people within the club know of him.
Nice choice as your first car and as a 20 year old Tazor. In respect of new parts locally, you generally will pay a premium price. On the other hand if you shop around, especially overseas, from places like EB Spares in the UK, and/or ebay you will save yourself a bundle and that is even after you pay for shipping to Aus. Parts generally only take around about 3-5 days to arrive from the UK. It seriously is worth it.
The V6 is lovely, but you will pay more for servicing costs (belts change etc) in some respects over a twin spark or even a JTS. Ditto fuel consumption is a little higher with this engine than the 4cyl cars. But there is that V6 engine note, which is hard to go past.
In terms of other things, front suspension, both lower and top control arms, sway bar bushes and drop links should be factored in at some stage, ditto the shocks. They all wear with age, and typically will need replacing on most cars with over 100,000km on the clock. I know as I have done these on mine.
The other thing to replace is the thermostat as these typically fail, indication being that the engine is running cool. To not replace it can do damage to the Catalytic converter and this is an expensive item to replace.
Oil consumption on the JTS from my experience and I have now had my car for nearly 6 1/2 years (34,000km) is not really all that significant a problem, but always best to play safe on keeping an eye on it. With the Twin Spark and V6 this shouldn't be a problem. The later model 156s (from 2003 onwards) generally have a better AC system than the earlier models, have 6 airbags, traction and stability control. Some cars also came fitted with the Bose hi fi which is excellent.
The one other major servicing item, for the JTS cars is the lambda sensors (there are 4 of them, top and bottom). These progressively fail with age/distance on the clock, are not overly expensive, but they are a hassle as it causes the engine to misfire, making driving unpleasant (jerky). THey need to be replaced and the computer re-set. Having said that, the JTS is still a good engine, its economical better than the other models, and has almost as much power, though neither torque or that note of the V6.
Personally, I would never go for a selespeed. Manual the only choice as far as I am concerned but each of course to their own.
Goodluck, there are plenty of nice cars out there for relatively not a lot of entry price.
Quote from: Davidm1750 on March 30, 2013, 10:50:09 PM
Nice choice as your first car and as a 20 year old Tazor. In respect of new parts locally, you generally will pay a premium price. On the other hand if you shop around, especially overseas, from places like EB Spares in the UK, and/or ebay you will save yourself a bundle and that is even after you pay for shipping to Aus. Parts generally only take around about 3-5 days to arrive from the UK. It seriously is worth it.
The V6 is lovely, but you will pay more for servicing costs (belts change etc) in some respects over a twin spark or even a JTS. Ditto fuel consumption is a little higher with this engine than the 4cyl cars. But there is that V6 engine note, which is hard to go past.i
In terms of other things, front suspension, both lower and top control arms, sway bar bushes and drop links should be factored in at some stage, ditto the shocks. They all wear with age, and typically will need replacing on most cars with over 100,000km on the clock. I know as I have done these on mine.
The other thing to replace is the thermostat as these typically fail, indication being that the engine is running cool. To not replace it can do damage to the Catalytic converter and this is an expensive item to replace.
Oil consumption on the JTS from my experience and I have now had my car for nearly 6 1/2 years (34,000km) is not really all that significant a problem, but always best to play safe on keeping an eye on it. With the Twin Spark and V6 this shouldn't be a problem. The later model 156s (from 2003 onwards) generally have a better AC system than the earlier models, have 6 airbags, traction and stability control. Some cars also came fitted with the Bose hi fi which is excellent.
The one other major servicing item, for the JTS cars is the lambda sensors (there are 4 of them, top and bottom). These progressively fail with age/distance on the clock, are not overly expensive, but they are a hassle as it causes the engine to misfire, making driving unpleasant (jerky). THey need to be replaced and the computer re-set. Having said that, the JTS is still a good engine, its economical better than the other models, and has almost as much power, though neither torque or that note of the V6.
Personally, I would never go for a selespeed. Manual the only choice as far as I am concerned but each of course to their own.
Goodluck, there are plenty of nice cars out there for relatively not a lot of entry price.
Cheers David that helps heaps. Still got my eyes on an my2004 156 V6 auto for under 12g. The thing that's getting me is the pessimism of those around me. They've heard one bad thing about some Alpha owner who probably neglected their car and had it fail and just slander them having never even driven one! But I heard the other day things like the tyres cost $3,500 to replace. Is this true? I want one of these cars more than my next breath but I know that if they're costing me over a grand everytime i go to get it serviced or have a part replaced I won't be able to afford it. Am I being unrealistic wanting an Alpha for my first car? I'm earning between 400-600 per week while studying full time if that helps understand my situation currently.
Cheers
Tazor
I don't know who was quoting on tyre costs but such a figure is absurd. I put a new set of Pirelli P7 on my car about a year or two ago. Cost $900 fitted and balanced. I hear what u say re your income and all going well that should be fine. Normal services for my car have been around $200. Shouldn't really be much different for a V6. Remember also if you get a good car, with service history and as low km as possible you should be right. Too many ordinary car owners bag out Alfa's but they have no experience. I have only owned Alfa's and Fiats. From my experience I don't think they are Ny worse re costs or reliability than many other cars. There are plenty here on the forum who can provide helpful advice etc. cheers mate.
The 205 wide by 55 aspect ratio tyres on my 156 JTS are the same size as many Commodores, the last time i replaced them they were about $800 for 4, if you go for low profile tyres, say 35 aspect ratio from an exotic tyre maker with weird tyre sizes, then you may pay $3500, the brutal fact is that some people buy Alfa Romeo's cause of their low resale value, and can't and won't get them serviced correctly, then they break down, and then you get the comment "bloody Alfa's always breaking down", Colin.
Hahaha, thought it was a load of bullocks xD I've also looked at a few 147 my2005's. They're twin spark but they're also selespeed. If anyone's wondering why I'm only doing auto its because my partner can't drive manual and she might need it from time to time. Do the 147's have the same issues as the 156's? Gotta say the latest face lifts of both models are gorgeous, I'd be wrapped with either :P
The Selespeeds need to be serviced every year, as the sensors and clutch rods get out of adjustment, and you will most likely have to overhall it at 80,000klms, try to get the latest Alfa model with Selespeed, as the newer ones are more simplified, there are Alfa Romeo specialists who have the Selespeed issues under control and its not a problem, take it to a normal Mechanic who has never heard of a Selespeed and you are asking for trouble, the 147 is a hatchback version of the 156 or the 156 is a sedan version of the 147 - take your pick, the two share a lot of components, such as suspension, brakes engines, gearboxes, etc, Colin.
Hi,
if it is any value, I don't think the 156 is any different from many other cars on the second hand market. You are going to pick something up that is either hassle free or has some issues. Never going to know. Don't let your friends put you off if that is what you are after.
I used to have a V6 156 and loved it. Had some funny electrical issues, but for the most part it was reliable and fun. I sold it but am in the market for another one as i miss it.
If you want some real fun - apparently the 156 V6 manual is real cool. almost 1 sec faster than the auto. I haven't driven one before so can't comment further but I do see that they are rare....
What ever you get, like the others have said - keep it serviced regularly, keep an eye on oils. Try to get something that looks like it is in reasonable condition...
Good luck in your choice.
=F.
I've started a new pursuit. A 147 GTA Selespeed. I plan on having my car serviced every 3 months anyway to be safe, meaning I shouldn't have any issues with the selespeed. I think th gta is close to the best car a p player can buy, and you can get them in excellent condition for 11,000! Guys, I think I'm in love... Again.
Tazor,
If you can drive a manual, that's what I'd recommend over the Selespeed - just a lot less hassle to maintain and/or fix.
As other folks have said, check out the service history and that it was maintained by an Alfa specialist - hopefully one you can continue to use. It really is a bonus if you can use a mechanic with personal knowledge of the car.
As a guide on costs, I bought a 2.5L V6 6speed manual 156 last year with 115k on the clock for $7k. I've since driven another 10,000km and spent +$3k on various bits and pieces, including timing belt changeout, cooling system repairs, new CV joints, and two major services (6 month servicing interval).
Sounds like a lot, but I couldn't be happier with it. I priced in the maintenance/rpair costs into my budget when I bought it (I didn't want to spend more than $15k including any major upfront repairs - so I'm still well in front). And its really not that much to pay for a great looking, great sounding and fantastic driving machine that cost ~$60k when it was new.
Fuel consumption isn't too bad for a 10yo six cylinder which loves to rev, given I drive mine to work every day in peak hour traffic (75km round trip), and use on average 11-12L per 100km. But you need to find an honest servo - some of the bigger chains are outright thieves when it comes to PULP. The three nearest big brand servos to me (that rhyme with TeeVee) typically charge 5-7c/L more for PULP than the rival servo I generally use.
Poohbah
hello Tazor, i had a 99 156 selespeed for my first car.
i had all sorts of problems blown engine,replaced computer twice,selespeed pump etc..., i would not recommend getting a selespeed,if i could do it again i would have defiantly gone manual.Make sure the car has been treated nicely.Even tho it gave me amounts of grief when it was finally running good it always put a grin on my face,that's why i have to have another one.
Hi Tazor, welcome to the forum, my advice would be if you like the 156 chassis go for a V6 2.5 - they are a little harder to find but this engine is the 'sweet spot' between the 2 Liter twin spark and 3.2 GTA, you get the power and torque of a V6 and more grunt than the Twin Spark or JTS. The JTS drives mighty fine as well but requires more maintenance - many owners report some oil consumption and a few other up keep requirements well reported on the forum. The V6 2.5 comes in auto q system which is automatic but has a 4 shift selector in a H style pattern (with no clutch) and is much more reliable than the selespeed design found on the twin spark or JTS models. Good luck in your search!
I am confident to say that I would only go to Vince @ Northern Alfa. Every other so called Alfa specialist just wants to take your money and are an absolute rip off!!! I am very lucky that I met Vince a year ago, I have had my fair share of dealing with some of the other Alfa specialists around town too...never again! Anyway here is his Vinces number 0417105102
Tell him Alex with the Grey Alfa 75 gave you the number
:)
Quote from: Alfamania on October 02, 2013, 10:26:54 AM
I am confident to say that I would only go to Vince @ Northern Alfa. Every other so called Alfa specialist just wants to take your money and are an absolute rip off!!! I am very lucky that I met Vince a year ago, I have had my fair share of dealing with some of the other Alfa specialists around town too...never again! Anyway here is his Vinces number 0417105102
Tell him Alex with the Grey Alfa 75 gave you the number
:)
+1