I'm hoping that some kind member of this community can enlighten me about a 'possible' change to Alfa Romeo's factory service specifications relating to when the timing belt needs replacing. I will try to be brief.
My wife purchased a new Giulietta from Newspot Motor Group in Adelaide on 1 July 2016. The purchase order listed the car as a Series 1 MY15 Quadrifolio Verde 1.8L Turbo 177kW Model 191.C5C.1. The vehicle is now due for a 3-year service.
Newspot Motor Group no longer deals with Alfa. Only one official Alfa service agent remains in Adelaide, being Solitaire Automotive.
The Advisor at Solitaire Automotive told my wife that, despite the car having travelled a tad over 20k, the timing belt would need replacing per the 3-year service specification. I questioned this, as the schedule in our Warranty & Maintenance book indicates that the timing belt need not be replaced until the 4-year service. The Advisor confirmed that my wife's car was a sports model (191 QV S0-S1 - 6 Speed TCT), requiring a different level of service. She emailed me an excerpt from the Solitaire Automotive service schedule, which reads, 'Replace timing belt every 3 years or 105,000km, whichever comes first'.
I'm wondering, is it possible that my wife's car was supplied with the wrong Warranty & Maintenance book? If so, I'd like to know, but getting a definitive answer, is proving to be difficult.
Newspot Motor Group cannot provide me with any information about the anomaly, other than to say, the car that we purchased would have been delivered with the appropriate Warranty & Maintenance book, as supplied by the importer.
Our Royal Automobile Association tells me that, if an amended service schedule relating to a critical component, such as a timing belt, a notice alerting us would likely have been issued by the importer to affix to our vehicle Warranty & Maintenance log book.
I called Alfa Romeo Customer Assistance Centre about this. In short, the fellow there refused to follow up on this discrepancy, referring me instead, to a service agent. I explained that our service agent in South Australia, Solitaire Automotive, insists that our vehicle has the timing belt replaced per the factory specification, but it cannot confirm how, why, or when this timing belt anomaly occurred once I questioned the discrepancy. Nor did I necessarily want to be locked into having my car serviced by Solitaire Automotive. I went on to explain that our extended warranty requires that the vehicle be serviced per the factory schedule, and so, we need full disclosure of factory service requirements. Alfa Romeo Customer Assistance Centre was extremely unhelpful.
I called FCH Australia directly. The young lady I spoke to was much more willing to assist. Unfortunately, she could not explain why the servicing requirements for our car might be different to the servicing specifications described in our Warranty & Maintenance book. She promised to follow it up with the technical department.
I await email confirmation of my conversation with Alfa Romeo Customer Assistance Centre, plus, a response from FCH Australia.
Before I pursue this matter, can anyone shed any light on what might be happening here?
Extended warranty in itself is possibly your problem. Usually this might be considered to be a good thing. I couldn't wait for my warranty to end so I could use the expertise of an Alfa specialist rather than a Chrysler/Jeep workshop.
I'll defer to others more knowledgeable regarding the life of the belt in your model. I have the same engine in a lesser state of tune and the belt, etc. get changed every five years.
Maybe try calling Zagame's service centre in Melbourne or McCarroll's in Sydney to see what they recommend?
Hi there,
I've seen a few Giulietta's over the years strip the teeth of the belt or have other failures well before the initial 105,000km/4 Year interval.
I believe Alfa have done a similar thing to what they did with the 156/147 Twinspark engines, which was reduce the interval due to many belts or related components failing whist still within the specified time frame/km's.
They were initially 120,000/6 years, but this was soon changed to 60,000km/3 years for Australian conditions.
We recently serviced a most recent release Giulietta 1750 TCT, and the interval in the service book was reduced.
That there's been a update from Alfa passed on to the dealerships could possibly be the reason for the confusion.
Mick.
Thanks for your responses.
Mick, my wife has a Giulietta QV 1750 petrol TCT (2015). FCA has confirmed that the timing belt needs replacing every 3 years, instead of every 4 years, as specified in our Warranty and Maintenance book.
Can I ask, were you notified about this important change by FCA? If so, when? We were not notified. This annoys me because we have only one Alfa dealer here in Adelaide, and I do not necessarily want to be locked into taking our vehicle to that service agent to learn about the new servicing requirements.
We weren't notified as we are an independent establishment. I've been telling our customers for years that in my opinion alfa have set the interval too long.
When you consider the tspark engines have a 60,000/3year interval, and the belt route/size/tension is almost identical on the 1750, not to mention they use the exact same water pump, it makes sense that 105,000km/4years is too long.
Plus, as I've said, I've seen plenty fail prematurely. Whenever i service a 1750, i always listen carefully to the belt area of the engine, and sometimes turn them over by hand to listen. I've found when the belts are starting to get old/worn they creak as the engine comes to a halt or when turned slowly by hand.
Hope this info is helpful.
Cheers.
Mick.
Mick's response might also indicate why there is similar uncertainty about the duration for the 147kW engine. The book says five years; accepted practice is four.
FCA Australia has since emailed me a revised maintenance schedule. The schedule clearly specifies that our car must be serviced every 6 months. We had no idea. Indeed, Autodata confirms that the timing belt must be replaced at 36 months, but describes maintenance services need only be done every 12 months. Who do you believe? I am awaiting clarification from FCA about this anomaly.
Every 6 MONTHS! :o
Someones taking the pi$$
Recession pricing? As in, safeguard your income streams?
My Alfa averages just over 5000km per year. It gets an annual service. Halving that would be overkill!
Of course, in reality I don't think it's ever managed to stay away from a workshop for an entire 12 months... :o
Quote from: kaleuclint on July 05, 2019, 04:16:50 PM
Of course, in reality I don't think it's ever managed to stay away from a workshop for an entire 12 months... :o
Just WHAT are you doing to that poor car? ???
My 156 JTS Wagon is my work car, and it is worked HARD! Loaded to the MAX, driven longer than average distances daily, yet I have never needed to do anything other than the usual servicing and consumable items such as brakes ect.
And it's a Selespeed to boot! (Gotta love em "Flappy Paddles")
I kid you not! FCA Australia specifies that our car must be serviced every 6 months.
'The service schedule emailed to you via ... is the most recent updated version released Nov 2017.
This was issued out to all dealerships in the Alfa network and is available to them via internal systems.
This service schedule should be referenced during each scheduled service.
It is the dealers (sic) responsibility to ensure your vehicle is serviced as per the service schedule, and they should be notifying customers of when their next service is due.'
It seems that Autodata has not been informed.
If service is every 6 months so what is the relevance of the new generation Synthetic oils ,oil companies market them as longer service intervals , something is not quite right here..
To avoid new car warranty, I would suggest that the servicing of new vehicles are to be strictly IAW manufacturers recommendations (ie; listed in the service schedule) and not the dealership requirement. Why this is done and the accepted norm across most if not all new car dealerships is any ones guess, but maybe it is purely and simply the profit $$$.
I wouldn't service it every 6 months. I would just service every 12 months. It would be hilarious if Alfa decided to deny some hypothetical warranty claim on the basis that their car in 3019 required service every 6 months.
Quote from: bazzbazz on July 05, 2019, 06:56:47 PM
Quote from: kaleuclint on July 05, 2019, 04:16:50 PM
Of course, in reality I don't think it's ever managed to stay away from a workshop for an entire 12 months... :o
Just WHAT are you doing to that poor car? ???
My 156 JTS Wagon is my work car, and it is worked HARD! Loaded to the MAX, driven longer than average distances daily, yet I have never needed to do anything other than the usual servicing and consumable items such as brakes ect.
And it's a Selespeed to boot! (Gotta love em "Flappy Paddles")
At last a positive comment on Selespeed with its 'paddles'. On a six speed 2.2 jts 159, Selespeed gives so much more control over performance than manually. Many of course don't agree! Is it the case that Selespeeds were rarely sold in the UK?
p.s. Is Brisbane Alfa Romeo now an "independent dealership" ?
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Quote from: wturnbull on July 06, 2019, 08:58:49 PM
p.s. Is Brisbane Alfa Romeo now an "independent dealership" ?
Apparently so, but it all depends on who you ask . . . . god knows. ::)
Update. Despite FCA Australia insisting that our Giulietta QV should be serviced every 6 months, Swann Insurance has acknowledged that we only need service our vehicle every 12 months (per the Autodata schedule, which is the leading online go-to reference used by most auto mechanics in Australia).
It irritates me that FCA Australia neglected to inform us of the significant changes in the maintenance schedule, despite our car being within the 3-year factory warranty.
FCA Australia maintains that it is the responsibility of our Alfa Service Agent to advise us of any revised maintenance items. How arrogant! Truth is, there is absolutely no legal requirement to have our vehicle serviced by an official Alfa dealer to comply with the factory warranty. Plus, I object to FCA Australia presuming that I would elect not to take my vehicle to be serviced elsewhere.
Alfa Romeo is the car you buy with your 'emotions', because, if you used your brain, you would buy something else! LOL!
Or - It's the car you buy second-hand when all the issues are caveat emptor, with a price to match. ;)
FCA is next to useless
Can you post up an image of the email, or advice (letter, etc) from FCA that says the car needs 6 monthly services, thanks
Remove your contact details if you wish
Well FCA need to update their owners manuals then, or at least read them themselves, as I just downloaded the Giuliattas Owners Manual for June 2019 and it states the following for oil changes -
1.75 Turbo petrol - "The actual interval for changing engine oil and replacing the engine oil filter depends on the vehicle usage
conditions and is signaled by the warning light or message in the instrument panel. In any cases, never exceed
1 year."
Now, as we all know, it is IMPOSSIBLE for every person owning an Alfa to have it serviced by an Alfa dealership who receive service updates, such as any owner outside of a capitol city. So the local service specialists HAVE to go by what is in the service schedule provided by Alfa with the car.
And really, just who the bloody hell does Alfa think would buy any fricken car, no matter what that only lasted 6 months between services. What a UTTER load of cr@p!
Like I have always said, "The problem with Alfa Romeo in Australia, IS Alfa Romeo Australia!"
The cars themselves are fine.
Quote from: Craig_m67 on July 10, 2019, 07:53:28 PM
FCA is next to useless
Can you post up an image of the email, or advice (letter, etc) from FCA that says the car needs 6 monthly services, thanks
'Dear ...
Thank you for contacting FCA customer care in relation to the service schedule for your 2015 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Quadrifoglio.
As per our phone conversation, please see the information you requested to be sent via email.
The service schedule emailed to you via .... is the most recent updated version released Nov 2017.
This was issued out to all dealerships in the Alfa network and is available to them via internal systems.
This service schedule should be referenced during each scheduled service.
It is the dealers (sic) responsibility to ensure your vehicle is serviced as per the service schedule, and they should be notifying customers of when their next service is due.
Please refer to your dealership to enquire if this will affect you extended warranty...'
According to Alfa Romeo Customer Assistance Centre, the new schedule for a timing belt replacement was a factory decision. Perhaps.
I requested that a confirmation email be sent to me about this, along with acknowledgment relating to another issue about the disgracefully outdated Uconnect Nav maps (don't get me started on this one).
I am extremely disappointed with Alfa Romeo Customer Assistance Centre. The fellow I spoke with was very unhelpful. He insisted that it was the service agent's responsibility to help me instead. Hellloooo? I tried explaining that there is now only one Alfa dealer left in Adelaide, and I did not purchase our new vehicle from that dealer. Nor should you presume that I would have my car maintained by an Alfa agent.
It was after this that I asked for a definitive answer about the timing belt issue from FCA Australia. A new schedule (per my previous post) was emailed to me to confirm the revised 3-yearly replacement interval – but it was by pure chance that my wife picked up on the new 6-monthly mechanical servicing requirement! Nobody advised us of this change, including the Alfa agent that has been servicing our car since new.
I continue to maintain that it is the responsibility of FCA Australia to have formerly notified all affected new vehicle owners of this significant amendment to the Alfa maintenance schedule.
So it completely contradicts what they are still printing in there own owners manuals.
Please note item 37 on the list - Replace Fuel Filter every 60,000 km. ???
Cheers for the info
Thats a fairly simple excel spreadsheet. I don't think that has been authorised by anybody in Italy/Alfa. Are there any identifying marks, authorising notes etc from FCA?
Nobody in their right mind needs to change the oil and filter in a car every 6months. And how the hell do you adjust the aux belt tensioner in a TBI ??
I have no time for FCA in Australia anymore, I've been dealing with them on and/off for 30years. Consistently useless. How the hell Alfa Italy chooses these people to ruin their brand is beyond me.
I guess if they're not selling cars (again, there's no issue with the actual product) then they have to gouge people on servicing.
That's if you can find an actual dealer .. who ever is in charge of Alfa Australia needs to be fired, along with who ever is responsible within Alfa itself for distribution. It's an absolute joke.
Quote from: Craig_m67 on July 11, 2019, 09:50:55 AM
Cheers for the info
Thats a fairly simple excel spreadsheet. I don't think that has been authorised by anybody in Italy/Alfa. Are there any identifying marks, authorising notes etc from FCA?
Nobody in their right mind needs to change the oil and filter in a car every 6months. And how the hell do you adjust the aux belt tensioner in a TBI ??
I have no time for FCA in Australia anymore, I've been dealing with them on and/off for 30years. Consistently useless. How the hell Alfa Italy chooses these people to ruin their brand is beyond me.
I guess if they're not selling cars (again, there's no issue with the actual product) then they have to gouge people on servicing.
That's if you can find an actual dealer .. who ever is in charge of Alfa Australia needs to be fired, along with who ever is responsible within Alfa itself for distribution. It's an absolute joke.
So Brisbane Alfa Romeo seems not to be an actual dealer. Fortunately for me and my 11 year ownership of a 159, I now have full confidence in Chris Lucas at CL Bodyworks, Bowen Hills, for advice after the debacle of being shunned by so called "dealers".
I now have confidence with 12 month services after getting all service items back in order.
***** A bit of good news from the U.S. According to the recently released 2019 Trusted Automotive Brand Study (TABS) from AMCI, Tesla has fallen off its previously lofty perch in the study to land at third from the bottom, besting only Acura and BMW among luxury marques. Alfa Romeo was the top-ranking luxury brand in this year's study, followed by Porsche, Genesis, Audi and Land Rover in the top five.
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Quote from: Craig_m67 on July 11, 2019, 09:50:55 AM
Thats a fairly simple excel spreadsheet. I don't think that has been authorised by anybody in Italy/Alfa. Are there any identifying marks, authorising notes etc from FCA?
The spreadsheet was sent to me by FCA Australia as an attachment to an email. The email states that this is the
'...recommended service schedule as provided by the manufacturer. As displayed in the below table on row 34, your timing belt is due for change every three years or 105,000km, whichever comes first. If you have not already had the timing belt changed, we would recommend to do so without delay.'Well, my wife has just had the car serviced. With a mere 20k on the clock, we had the timing belt replaced. Total cost, was a little over $1600.00, including a $200 discount.
Quote from: tiptoe on July 12, 2019, 01:42:39 AM
Quote from: Craig_m67 on July 11, 2019, 09:50:55 AM
Thats a fairly simple excel spreadsheet. I don't think that has been authorised by anybody in Italy/Alfa. Are there any identifying marks, authorising notes etc from FCA?
The spreadsheet was sent to me by FCA Australia as an attachment to an email. The email states that this is the '...recommended service schedule as provided by the manufacturer. As displayed in the below table on row 34, your timing belt is due for change every three years or 105,000km, whichever comes first. If you have not already had the timing belt changed, we would recommend to do so without delay.'
Well, my wife has just had the car serviced. With a mere 20k on the clock, we had the timing belt replaced. Total cost, was a little over $1600.00, including a $200 discount.
Sorry, don't get me wrong. I am sure the info came from FCA (Australia), what I'm suggesting is nobody in their right mind in Italy (or the UK, EU, etc) would publish such a thing.. they be committing brand suicide suggesting their cars are so fragile they need an oil/filter change every 26 weeks.
It's just ridiculous.
I suggest you keep your QV for a very long time (or sell it to me if it's blue).. it's going to last for ages, they're perfectly reliable and capable cars when serviced (or over serviced).
Bazz will be along in a moment to tell you how much he'd have to increase his prices to charge you that for a cambelt change, even if you did everything (plugs, belts, idlers, tensioners, waterpump, engine mounts, etc..). Possibly could have flown him to Adelaide and still been cheaper... and he's good company ;)
Cheers Craig!
Quote from: Craig_m67 on July 12, 2019, 11:05:18 AM
Bazz will be along in a moment to tell you how much he'd have to increase his prices to charge you that for a cambelt change, even if you did everything (plugs, belts, idlers, tensioners, waterpump, engine mounts, etc..). Possibly could have flown him to Adelaide and still been cheaper... and he's good company ;)
I dunno, I charge by the hour. How many hours is a return flight from Brisbane to Adelaide? ;)