A request was made for submissions and delegates without a great deal of response.
For some time now we have been hearing opinions that the competition rules could be better. Well now is the time, the competition subcommittee is being adjourned, to discuss proposals to adjust the competition rules. If you have a serious proposal, the competition subcommittee lead by Andrew Bose is meeting to discuss written submissions at the Town Hall Hotel in South Melbourne, at 7:30pm. To have your proposal discussed, you must submit a written proposal by the 27th May 2007 to Brad Marshall. Interested representatives are called for from all existing competition classes to register their interest also to Brad Marshall, registered parties will be forwarded submitted proposals by the 30th May, and these proposals will be discussed and voted on at the subcommittee meeting. Proposals and interest is to be communicated to Brad Marshall by the 27th May 2008 via email (bradley.s.marshall@gmail.com) or written correspondence (PO Box 411, Collins Street West 8007).
You have until Friday to make your ideas/interest in attending known.
Brad (or Andrew!),
Have you recieved a submission in regards to a Group S class?
Scott,
If they haven't we should put our heads together and make sure we get this as a stand alone class.....at the moment we fit into racing, GroupS is resticted on modifications when Racing class is not.
I thought that it was already accepted by the committee that there is a Group S Sprint Class and a Group S racing trophy for the most points in the big 4 historic meetings.
For the sprint class it should be open to log booked Group S cars that meet Group s eligibility rules as laid down in the CAMS manual. Most points for the year wins. Maybe you can ensure it is enshrined in the rules.
The AROCA Vic Committee does not alter the competition rules. A Competition Sub-committee (consisting of representatives of each existing class) is convened by the Vice President (as Competition is part of that positions responsibilities) to vote on proposed amendments to the rules.
As one of the Competition Secretaries I am organising the proposals (and giving annoying reminders).
To date there has been one official proposal about judging the fastest in a class using the three best times, to reward consistency and mitigate timing errors.
Regarding delegates that have expressed interest there are not many, the purpose of calling for delegates was to have a brisk meeting (as the delegates would have time to read the proposals beforehand) and make more time for socialising after.
OK then. I will try to get something submitted on GrpS (in my copious amounts of spare time!!).
Where is Branko's submission, he was hot on this topic a while ago.....well Branko?
Quote from: Brad Marshall on May 28, 2008, 12:39:11 PM
To date there has been one official proposal about judging the fastest in a class using the three best times, to reward consistency and mitigate timing errors.
Now that dorians are being used, that would make timing errors a non issue....wouldn't it?
Quote from: Phil Baskett on May 28, 2008, 01:15:26 PM
Now that dorians are being used, that would make timing errors a non issue....wouldn't it?
I would think the rewarding of consistency has merit given the timing errors should be removed by using the dorians. Definitely a point to be discussed at the meeting.
The other proposals I expected around having a 1600cc class and simplifying the classes to standard, modified and racing (in line with other states) have not yet been submitted.
Quote from: Brad Marshall on May 28, 2008, 03:40:57 PM
I would think the rewarding of consistency has merit given the timing errors should be removed by using the dorians. Definitely a point to be discussed at the meeting.
If rewarding consistency is what some people want, then put in a regularity class/session. Sprints are about sprints....fastest wins!!
Bruno had a few ideas which he's printed out, get in touch with him to make sure he sends them in.
I'm happy to act as rep for my class if no-one else is interested.
A regularity class isn't a bad idea actually. You could take yourself out of a class if you think you have no chance of winning, but can be consistent(ly slow). Has some merit.
Oh yeah, and scrap 'up to 2 litre', make it 'up to 2.5 litre'. ;). Twinsparks make as much power as a 2.5........ Then all the 3 litres can scrap it out amongst themselves.
Quote from: Brad Marshall on May 28, 2008, 12:39:11 PM
The AROCA Vic Committee does not alter the competition rules. A Competition Sub-committee (consisting of representatives of each existing class) is convened by the Vice President (as Competition is part of that positions responsibilities) to vote on proposed amendments to the rules.
As one of the Competition Secretaries I am organising the proposals (and giving annoying reminders).
To date there has been one official proposal about judging the fastest in a class using the three best times, to reward consistency and mitigate timing errors.
Regarding delegates that have expressed interest there are not many, the purpose of calling for delegates was to have a brisk meeting (as the delegates would have time to read the proposals beforehand) and make more time for socialising after.
I'm aware of the role of the Competition Sub-committee having chaired it a number of times in the past. However this was not a change to the competition rules but the establishment of a whole new trophy - nothing to do with the rules of the exisiting competition rules. The Grp s class was to added informally and then to be ratified at the next Competition Committee Meeting which hasn't happened sometime.
Also FYI the Comp Sub Comittee is chaired by the VP not the Comp Secs. Policy managed by the VP, running the comp by the comp sec - seperation of powers.
Quote from: Scott Farquharson on May 28, 2008, 05:12:50 PM
Also FYI the Comp Sub Comittee is chaired by the VP not the Comp Secs. Policy managed by the VP, running the comp by the comp sec - seperation of powers.
Quote from: Brad Marshall on May 28, 2008, 10:01:41 AM
If you have a serious proposal, the competition subcommittee lead by Andrew Bose is meeting to discuss written submissions at the Town Hall Hotel in South Melbourne, at 7:30pm.
Andrew Bose is VP. Don't you come to meetings or read your magazine? Jeez Louise
Quote from: Brad Marshall on May 28, 2008, 10:01:41 AM
the competition subcommittee lead by Andrew Bose is meeting to discuss written submissions at the Town Hall Hotel
Yep, Andrew Bose is running this and I am providing support to get some action.
Quote from: Scott Farquharson on May 28, 2008, 05:12:50 PM
I'm aware of the role of the Competition Sub-committee having chaired it a number of times in the past.
The description on the roles was directed to members not so familiar with how things are done.
Quote from: Scott Farquharson on May 28, 2008, 05:12:50 PM
However this was not a change to the competition rules but the establishment of a whole new trophy - nothing to do with the rules of the exisiting competition rules. The Grp s class was to added informally and then to be ratified at the next Competition Committee Meeting which hasn't happened sometime.
I'm pretty sure adding a class requires some rules around who can compete. Now if you just want an Trophy, that is a different issue that wasn't sorted last year.
Wow, got some replies there. Wasn't trying p1ss anyone off.
Look I want to make sure we are clear on the Grp S thing.
The Grp S Challenge is a Trophy for the best performing Grp S driver at the 4 major historic meetings each year - not related to any AROCA event. It has nothing to do with the Club competition rules. The Grp S Trophy idea was put to the Club Committee as a way of promoting involvement in racing and to provide a low cost path from sprints to racing. It was voted on and agreed at that meeting in mid 2006. This trophy has been promoted and the rules for this trophy have been on this web site and in the forum for nearly two years - it was very much sorted and a quick look at the forum makes it very clear how this works. I don't think this needs anymore attention. I will say however I am disappointed that the trophy was not awarded last year as it should have been, the first full year of the Grp S Challenge, despite me reminding the Committee and providing the winner prior to the presentation dinner. Maybe someone could shed some light on this for me and the Grp S Competitors.
At the same committee meeting it was also suggested that there be a Sprint Class, which was also agreed, and it should be added to the AROCA Club Competition in the fullness of time. Since then the Comp sub-committee has not met (that i'm aware of), however the Grp S class at sprints has been partially and on an ad hoc basis been catered for at some meetings and been on the timesheets and some entry forms. I think the formal incorporation of this class is a priority for the Comp Sub Committee given the massive amount of work done by many members in this category and given it is in reality the only parity class we have and it provides a very clear path from sprints to racing. I think Phil will provide a proposal. It doesn't need to be complicated, points to Grp S competitors at each sprint meeting, log booked car, meets Grp S eligibility, same points as all other classes. Don't care whether the class is part of the Terry Potter or the Gardener but it should be part of one of them - maybe the Gardener is the place given it is a class based on racing spec cars. Over to you.
I only mentioned the VP thing just to make sure we where all aware - good to see we are. And no I guess i haven't been to a meeting in a while.....
Also while I note the "registered delegate" approach, i'd suggest that all submissions be posted for all to review prior to the meeting so any objections/comments/other points of view can be discussed at the meeting. Sometimes changes can have unforeseen impacts that someone else may pick up on. Lets make sure before any changes are made all have the opportunity to review - better that than people making a ruckus when the changes are introduced. Not sure what you have planned but publishing the new rules in draft form in the mag prior to introduction would probably be a good idea too. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to suck eggs but I've seen what can happen when there is a perception of insufficient consultation. People have a lot of $ tied up in these cars and rule changes can mean more $ for some = sensitivities....
Also what is the actual date/time of the meeting - maybe i missed it?
Meeting Scheduled for Town Hall Hotel in South Melbourne, at 7:30pm 3rd June.
I noticed the date wasn't in the first post of the thread as I copied it straight from the calendar.
Quote from: Scott Farquharson on May 28, 2008, 10:02:35 PM
meets Grp S eligibility
this could be a problem at sprint events. Every scrutineer has to be familiar with all the Group S regs?
Quote from: Sheldon Mcintosh on May 29, 2008, 12:03:03 AM
Quote from: Scott Farquharson on May 28, 2008, 10:02:35 PM
meets Grp S eligibility
this could be a problem at sprint events. Every scrutineer has to be familiar with all the Group S regs?
Not really, when was the last time someone at scrutineering pulled up a competitor and said 'why are you in base modified, you should be in super modified'? Although scrutineers can check eligibility I would expect that their task at a sprint event is mainly to check conformance with the AROCA supp regs and safety aspects of the car. Like any other class (sprints or otherwise), the best eligibilty officers are the other competitors in that class, you can bet your bottom dollar if someone is doing something to their car that is giving them an unfair advantage, then it will soon be known!!
If it really worries anyone though, I will put my hand up as an eligibility officer (and anyone is welcome to inspect my car for eligibility!!!).
Quote from: Sheldon Mcintosh on May 29, 2008, 12:03:03 AM
Quote from: Scott Farquharson on May 28, 2008, 10:02:35 PM
meets Grp S eligibility
this could be a problem at sprint events. Every scrutineer has to be familiar with all the Group S regs?
I agree with Phil, i wouldn't think it is any harder than for any other class. I would also be happy to act as co-eligibility officer with Phil for any issues the scrutineers have. The fact is the club rules are pretty much an honor system anyway. Declaration at the start of the year, which i would be happy to review and then the scrutineering is really for safety unless there seems to be a glaring issue.
The Grp S rules are also a lot more straight forward than the club rules as there is much less scope for interpretation i.e the car is standard apart from what is specifically allowed in the rules. Also the cars having a Grp S log book means they at least started out legal.
Wouldn't a Group S car fall into Super Modified class anyway (at present)? You run standard brakes on those things don't you?
Well, you can modify engine internals, gearbox internals, headers, springs, sway bars and dampers, I think gets them into racing class.
By my reading, engine internals, gearbox internals and headers is one modification. Springs, sway bars and dampers is a second. You run race tyres, so that's all you're allowed.
You guys run standard brakes and retain interior fittings (unless it gets in way of rollcage, and certainly not hollowed out or lightened, ahem) don't you?
Someone correct me, but that would make it Super Modified.
Any update on the completed rule changes? A draft for review maybe?