Cold starts, new rubbers and panel fit questions

[Silver105]

Guys,

As a new owner of a 105 (and new to Alfas) one thing that I have noticed is that my GTV 2ltr takes about 4 to 5 goes to start on the weekends when I usually start her up. Now I have electronic ignitition that works fine, new plugs, new V6 Alfa alternator but I think it is to do with the how I feed the fuel.  I let the fuel pump run for a little while to get the fuel up, pull the choke out a little and yet it ticks over easily but doesn't start until I give it some time to settle. Now I think I'm usually flooding her and she only kicks in once I let that settle but I have tried starting her also without pulling the choke out and just pumping the peddle but still takes me about 4 goes and some time to get her started.  Not sure if their is a way or trick with these cars and I'm just feeling my way with this one but if anyone has some pearls of wisdom I'm all ears.

The other question is regards panel fit. Now I have left side door and a boot where the fit is OK but the boot in particular juts out slightly and it is to do with the new rubbers fitted as part of the restoration. Now I'm told that this will settle over time and that I should get this re-adjusted in the future but I can't help it. See what you think and again open to ideas.

Thx
JJ

[giulia_veloce]

Hi JJ.

Sounds like a normal thing to take many starts ofter sitting for a week or so.
Are you sure it has an electric fuel pump ?
If it does,it should start pretty quickly .
If it doesnt have an electric fuel pump,its pretty normal.
What sort of carbys ?
Some Weber carbys require the choke.
Dellortos + Webers require that the accelerator pump jets are not blocked to help starting after a few pumps.
As for the boot rubber,,,some cars,,,,no matter what boot rubber you use,,,,the bootlid will stick up.
It can be modified to sit properly,but can be time consuming.

Robert

[Colin Byrne]

This is a common issue with 105's, as Rob says make sure the Accelerator pumps are working on both carbs, with the airbox off you should be able to see down the barrel with a torch and a small mirror.  My method for starting 105's is

Give 4 or 5 full pumps of the accelerator pedal without the engine turning over

then just crack the throttle open by resting your foot on the pedal whilst turning over

then the engine should clear, rev up in 20 or so seconds

i never use the choke

Did you have the ignition timeing checked when you installed the electric ignition system?, incorrect advance

[Silver105]

Will try the suggestions tonight and see the outcome.

So with the panel fit, let me know the suggestion as if it takes time I'm still interested as it's just one of those things that bugs me and I would like to try and fix it. Or if you can recommend someone ?

[Silver105]

Just to give you more info, carbs are dellertos and the ignition is electric, timing fine, pump may not be electric but will check and when warm she starts straight away, no choke etc.

[Davidm1600]

Hi JJ, yep I am with Col on the starting method, and I have had both 105s with Webers and/or Delortos, as well as a couple of Alfettas with Delortos and I have never needed the choke either.  I am actually not sure why Alfa even bothered to fit a choke as I have never known anyone to need to make use of the choke.

From my experience using my '69 1750 GTV, when I used it daily all it never needed was about 3-4 pumps and she always fired up straight away.  When I left it for a while, say a week or more, then it took a while to get it going but once up and going it was not a problem to re-start thereafter.  I think it was a case of getting the fuel up the line from the tank to the carbs.

Re the bootlid fit, there are usually a couple of reasons for this, either a car has had a hit in the rear and when putting a car back together the re-alignment is not quite perfect. This also can happen to a car that has been restored (but not hit in the rear). The second problem definitely is associated with the new boot rubbers as they are not quite the same profile as the original.  Even those from suppliers such as Classic ALfa or Alfaholics in the UK. THe same problem is also true for door rubbers.  Yes to an extent they may settle down with age, but it is a well known problem in Alfa circles.  Indeed there has been much discussion re this on the Alfabb.

My best recommendation would be to get your bodyworks to check the alignment of the panel to the hinges to see if they can re-adjust to get a better fit.  Dave

[cjheath]

I too never needed the choke when I was running my 1750 on Webers, but recently I've been driving the Giulia 1300 TI which has a single 2-barrel Solex, and it definitely needs the choke. It has electronic ignition and timing, and runs beautifully when warm, but on these cold days needs a full five minutes to warm up. Not sure if the timing is right at low revs, but the accelerator pump definitely works. That said, when warm, at low revs, it seems to stumble a bit initially on throttle - perhaps the timing is too advanced for low revs and that affects the cold running more?

[Silver105]

Car has just been gone through a 10yr nut and bolt restoration not by myself but I have acquired her in this excellent condition. The panel fit I was told was to do with the rubbers and I know Sasha who built the car tried several rubbers for the boot. Will see what I can come up with but it just seems a little too large a gap to not be able to be fixed. Will speak to some bodyworks and see if they have any solutions. Anyone have any specialists they can recommend or do I just go by the sponsors list ? Again I'm new to Alfas.

I need to take the car to get the tension and timing etc of the engine reset eventually as I'm running the engine in and have only been driving her in the dry on the weekends. She is running a little rich at the moment and I that may contribute to the starts issues but I'm going to try without the choke and let the fuel get up the lines and then just pump the throttle a couple of times and see what happens. Have been using the choke and that may be the problem. Again once she is started she then starts perfectly so maybe I'm asking a bit much of her ? Will try the suggestions.

Thanks for the comments, again very useful.

[pep105]

I find this starting procedure to be normal on the carbie cars. I used the choke once on the 82 GTV years ago and never used it again. My 105 runs alfetta electronic dizzy and yet its the typical starting procedure when cold, 3 - 4 pumps of the throttle before cranking. So nothing unusual there. Also starts and runs beautifully when warm.

Im having the same issue with the bootlid seal, just bought one from classic alfa and fitted it and same thing, bootlid is propped up slightly and is a bitch too close. Might try the old one to compare profiles and modify the new one. Let you know how I go.

[aggie57]

Start routine in my many alfa nord's is as others have said.  However in the UK many years ago I recall my Alfetta 1600 sedan needed choke in winter.  Like at well below freezing, the sort of temperatures that we don't get here even in the ski fields but are common in other parts of the world.

Alister

[giulia_veloce]

Hi again.

The best way to make a bootlid fit properly and squarely and sitting properly is to remove the fuel tank so you can get in the boot and evaluate where the problem is.
The rubber must sit in the groove on the bootlid itself.
Try some baby powder on the rubber,and watch where the rubber ends up.
Usually ,the channel where the rubber sits,will have to be knocked down and centralised to where it goes in the space in the bootlid.
I have seen it done many times by my panel beater. (noisy ).
I normally make sure this is done prior to painting a car.
Same with the door rubbers= trial fit and adjust prior to painting.
It usually doesnt matter what rubber you use or where it comes from= will have to be modified=panelwork
For all you car resoreres,make sure your panel beater trial fits boot rubbers and door rubbers to fit perfect before painting the car.

Yes,its winter and the car will become harder to start.
Might be time to remove the carbys and bench test the accelerator pump jets.
It could be the accelerator pump diaphrams(dellorto ) are hard and not deliveing fuel= replace them.
When getting a headgasket done = ask the mechanic to make sure the accelerator pumps are squirting.
I do this every time without being asked as it makes the engine perform better and start better.
Make sure all squirt the same amount of fuel.
If still takes too long to start after a week or so,fit a small electric fuel pump (lift pump) which will get the fuel up to the carbys quicker,before it ruins the starter motor.
Sometimes I dont mind the cranking of the engine for a while cause it gets the oil pressure up.
Anyway,its time for me to get a starter motor out of a Duetto Spider cause its burnt out cause an owner couldnt make it start.
The car just arrived from South Africa.
Nice car.
I think I will remove the carbys to get the starter motor out and test the accelerator pump jet fuel delivery.
It is the more time consuming way,but an overall better job.
Hope all this helps.

Robert

[giulia_veloce]

Me again.

Well,yesterday,removed the carbys and found only 1 accelerator pump jet squirting.
Removed all accelerator pump jets and cleaned them out.
Removed the most lower plates on the carbys and cleaned the rubbish out.
Bench tested the pump jets on the bench by activating the throttle.
Nice 4 long squirting jets.
Fitted another starter motor,refitted the carbys.
Started like it should have.
Restarted the car this morning at 6 am with 2 pumps on the accelerator and started like it should.
Time consuming,but worth it.

Robert

[Silver105]

Robert and others, thanks for the comments, will have a look at the weekend but should be OK as the car has just been recently put together in the restoration but will see what I can find. If no joy will wait till I take it to Bruno at Maranello Pursang motors for a check up.

cheers
JJ

[Silver105]

Thanks for the help, looks like the suggestions worked. Best method seems to be to pump the pedal 4 or 5 times before hand, let the fuel pump run for a little while then crank her over after a little autostart does the trick. 

Thanks for the advice.

JJ