Author Topic: 916 Spider/GTV gearbox oil leak  (Read 14368 times)

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Cool Jesus

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916 Spider/GTV power steering leak
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2013, 10:50:18 PM »
Well, I can now say that I've resolved the power steering leak. Over the weekend I was taking the missus for a nice picnic dinner at a beach/bay in Vaucluse, Sydney when along the windy hills of New South Head Road the two securing bolts for the power steering rack decided to exit stage left, bang, ting, ting ting somewhere down the road.... Well, the remainder of the trip was like steering in a bumper bowling alley, having to turn the steering wheel 3 or 4 times before it felt ready to take a bend in the road. Thank god for camber on the straight bits. Anyhow, happened to have two replacement bolts, locktite on this time round, replaced the copper washers on the inlet and outlet of the power steer banjo joints at the rack and no more leaks.
As a diagnostic symptom for others, in the lead up to this there was the power steer leak in the banjo joint area, due to them being flexed because of the rack being loose. Steering began to feel a little less responsive and sloppy. closer to the disaster there was a chain sounding jingle from the front stryt area aswell as a thud or clunking noise from under the floor pan area. The jingle sound would have been the washers on the bolts rattling around and the thud would be the loose rack. Hmmm very dangerous, very lucky, somehow it held together enough to get me home and then the workshop.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

colcol

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Re: 916 Spider/GTV gearbox oil leak
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2013, 08:03:58 PM »
I have never pulled a rack out of a 916 Spider / GTV / 156, but apparantly the bolts that go thru the rack assembly onto the mount, go into aluminium, and they cross thread very easily, so you would want to put some loctite on the bolts if possible to stop them coming loose, as opposed to doing up too tight and stripping the aluminium threads in the mount and make some sort of lock washer to go around the bolt head, i bet there is not much room around the rack, must check it out on the 156 next time i am under the car, drilling some small holes in the bolt heads and wire tying motorsport style would be a bit extreme, but would stop them loosening off, Colin.
1974 VW Passat [ist car] 1984 Alfa 33TI [daily driver] 2002 Alfa 156 JTS [daily driver]

Cool Jesus

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Re: 916 Spider/GTV gearbox oil leak
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2013, 10:24:16 PM »
Yep that's right Col, it's just aluminium thread for all mountings in the rack unit and one of the bolts didn't thread as easy as the other, hmmm hoping it was just a little dirty in the hole. Wasn't heavy handed in tightening them for fear of shredding the thread however used locktite this time around. There is a torque setting for them but I forgot to bring the excerpt from the workshop manual with me, errrr. Also forgot the camera, so no photos either.

Very happy to have found the power steer leak reason though, can now have the wheel alignments done. I'd be confident with locktite and proper torque setting for your daily driver, track cars being constantly hammered with greater forces would certainly benefit from a more secure retention method as you suggest.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Clutch pedal remaining on floor
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2013, 10:03:18 AM »
Well, I can finally tick off another issue off the list. I thought I raised this issue in a separate thread. Anyhow, dug up this old thread to post a resolution. To recap, my better half mentioned the clutch pedal was staying down and needed lifting back up with your foot back in Aug 2012. It was an issue which only occurred when she drove the car so a prioritised it appropriately. Well over the last few months it started to occur when I drove the spider. Can't have that, so it's priority status was raised.
Anyhow, looked for the obvious fluid leakage at the master and slave cylinders, none found and reservoir was at level. Clutch was recently replaced so the slave cylinder was doing its duty, even after manipulating the pedal back up in the car gear selection was fine. So I used my divine logic in diagnosing that the fluid pressure was flowing past the seals in the master cylinder, hence leaving the pedal whiskey limp on the floor. So I ordered a brake master cylinder seal kit off eBay and tackled the overhaul. From the workshop manuals and guides on the web, all indicated access from beneath the car. Having removed various components from beneath and above in the past, I felt it would be much easier to tackle the master cylinder from above. I was right, much easier.
It required removal of the air intake, throttle body, intake runners and the cover over the throttle and bonnet cable levers on the firewall. Even with my massive arms I was able to reach the various bolts along the way. The hardest part was configuring myself into a pretzel to remove the 2 bolts securing the master cylinder in the footwell. Make sure you place some rags to catch any fluid that may escape the cylinder and save your carpet. Also, to catch the damn bolts, the one and only open area near the steering joint is an abyss and sure enough my bolts found there way down behind the carpet.
Anyhow, clutch master out and yes the seals were knackered and only just big enough for the bore of the cylinder. So, opened up my seal kit and the rubbers were all different??? Did my best guess at which ones to use and sure enough it didn't work. After some head and arse scratching I check the seal kit packaging to verify it was for my model Alfa. Yes it was, I read it out aloud to my father I law "brake master cylinder" seal kit - WHAT! He says. OMG I bought the wrong kit.
Damn, late Saturday afternoon, the spider was in the pits again until I could source the right item. Arrrggghh!
Anyhow, a clutch master seal kit seemed non existent on the web so a new cylinder was the next option. Dads neighbour works at a dealership and came back with a trade price of $450. Naff off, not when I could source it for $100 delivered from the UK, but I needed the Alfa on the road and couldn't wait a week for it. The ring around slowly brought its price down until I found it a more respectable price from Domenic at Italian motor spares in Victoria. Highly recommend them, there customer service is second to none. Anyhow, part arrived the next day and I was back one the road in less than two hours. No more whiskey limp clutch pedal.
Sorry for the essay, but I just had to share my homer moment with this fix. I wouldn't call this fix easy, maybe 3 out of 5 spanners. Best tackled from above. At worst you may have to lift the car to reach the intake bolts with long extensions on your socket wrench. Much easier than removing exhaust and half shaft, let alone trying to do hose clamps etc from underneath.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 916 Spider/GTV gearbox oil leak
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2013, 11:24:25 AM »
Photo of clutch master cylinder access from above. This would strongly suggest this method over the workshop's instructions. The yellow circle indicates the cover removed from the throttle and bonnet cable links to ease access even further. Imagine trying to do the hydraulic line and hose clamps from underneath...
Oh and that firewall grommet for the rubber feed hose, virtually impossible to reinstall even with ample access. I ended up just silasticing the gap around the hose.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 916 Spider/GTV gearbox oil leak
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2013, 11:28:14 AM »
footwell view of the 916 clutch master cylinder and the two nuts that hold it in place. See the steering knuckle directly below it, thats the area 51 in the footwell for all things to disappear beneath the carpet.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 916 Spider/GTV gearbox oil leak
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2013, 11:33:09 AM »
You'll probably find a spring and plastic piece come falling down from under the dash as you manipulate the master cylinder and clutch pedal. Its the clutch pedal spring, best replaced after the new cylinder is bolted in place and before attaching it to the pedal. Move the free swinging pedal about to refit it and the guide to the brake servo. Items indicated on eper as 7 and 9 are the ones which will fall off.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 916 Spider/GTV gearbox oil leak
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2013, 11:12:10 AM »
Just wanted to add one last resolution to this thread. Fairly sure I posted it earlier, however having replaced the two rear seals and main seal on the engine, which resolved the engine oil leak, I still had a leak of clearer yellowish oil (gearbox) from between the bellhousibg and engine. Not enough to foul the new clutch but I've determined that it can only be seeping from the input shaft seal. So I've got a new seal now and am trying to build up enough enthusiasm to pull the gearbox out again to replace it. Once done that will sort out all my oil leaks. At the moment though, I'm finding it much easier to top up the gearbox oil every now and then with the few cc's if oil that leaks from it.
Thanks to all that had an input along the way. It really makes membership worthwhile having this forum, not to mention ownership of such a great marque that Alfa is.  ;D
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS