Sud mods

[116gtv]

Gents

Would anyone be able to give me a crash course in sud mods for low budget track and motorkhana work?
This is for a stock single carb sprint veloce.

I'll start the list

- baffled sump
- remove front antiroll bar ?
- rear antiroll bar upgrade?
- springs - where to buy new or used? What rates? How bad are cut factory springs?
- shocks - ?


Any recommendations on where to plumb in a hydraulic handbrake? Right at the start of the rear line at the brake master?

Cheers

Martin
 

[Fetta GTV]

What year model is it?
Alfaowner.com has a huge sud and sprint forum in their technical forum
You need to register to see the pics
Its amazing what these guys do to their boxer engine cars

[116gtv]

It's an 81 I suspect, last of the first series. I'll check it out, thx mate

What are you doing to yours?

[Fetta GTV]

Setting it up for club supersprint, so am interested in the responses you get to this topic

[alfagtv58]

haha

'FettaGTV' and '116gtv' discussing mods to sprints/suds.  You guys know the answer, sell it and get yourself into an ALFETTA!!!!!! 

[Frank Musco]

haha

'FettaGTV' and '116gtv' discussing mods to sprints/suds.  You guys know the answer, sell it and get yourself into an ALFETTA!!!!!! 

I thought it was strange, although, I'm looking at it from the point of view that they "HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!" and now they are on the correct path, 'Sprinting into the Future!'


Martin, your on the right track, 1st you must baffle the sump.

The rest I'll suggest from a spend no money approach since you said 'low budget' and that's how I did it with my race Sprint.

Weight is critical. Take out everything. Yes everything your allowed to take out and then find more, dashboard, all sound deadener, cut out what you can, fit polycarb windows. This is one of the most important steps to help our little engines.

Fit a good race seat and harness. Worth many seconds alone.

Then after lightening, cut the original springs, start by cutting one coil off the front springs, and 2 coils off the rear springs. Yes, the coils will fall out when you jack the car up. The fronts don't go anywhere unless you intend on jumping the car, and the rears are a problem, so I cut an old seat belt and made some straps to hold the springs in.  Then step back, look at the car on level ground and adjust to make the rear of the car slightly lower than the front, about half an inch. The original springs are a good starting point while learning the car. Spring rates I don't know, I have fitted cut down heavier springs from different cars in my race car. eg VS rear commodore springs fit perfect in the rear so when you want to go heavier take a trip to your local wrecker and look for similar size springs.
Don't bother changing shocks unless they are worn. eg the car bounces. When you lower the car they get stiffer, although they can begin to leak some oil. I used originals for years in my race car and they worked fine.

When you lower the car it gets too much neg camber, so I file out three of the four holes that bolt the strut to the hub (I leave the bottom one) and make it about 3 degrees for starters, then adjust depending on what your tyre temperatures tell you. somewhere between 2.5 -3.5 degrees.

I like to run a touch of toe in at the front, about 1mm. Some like toe out, but it makes me nervous under brakes, although corners better, so that's up to you.

Front Sway bars are always topic for debate. I like the way the car handles with the front sway bar. I actually put a larger than original one on my race car. Definitely fit a sway bar on the rear, 18mm. Difficult to find a rear sway bar these days, please let me know if you find one off the shelf so I can buy another one.

Give the engine a good tune. Check and adjust all valve clearances to the thou. Check your distributor total advance. The single carb motor has plenty of go while getting to know the sud. Flush radiator and engine. Leave exhaust. When you want to go faster, just buy yourself a 1700 8V with the 40mm twin carbs, instant weapon, standard. Fit cold air intake onto original airbox. Change cam belts!!

If you have the original gearbox from the Alfasud Sprint Veloce 1.5 model, it could be the ideal close ratio box and correct 4.11:1 diff ratio, like my race car. Oil gear change linkage.

I have not fitted a hydraulic handbrake. Also seen to many brake variations to suggest something safe. eg while playing with different original Alfa rear byass valves I lost brake pressure to the front left!! (from 1988 Alfa33). I suggest checking yourself that the rear brake circuit does not go to a tee connecting to the front left wheel. If the rear brake line goes directly to the rear byass valve then you can plumb into it at the master cylinder.
Also fit a set of race brake pads for the track. I would begin with some EBC greens or something similar. Front only for starters.

Use the event supplementary regulations to finish the car off. eg metal valve caps, correct fire extinguisher and how to mount it and so on...

This is the approach I took with my race car, with small adjustments along the way.
Have fun Sprinting!

[Ray Pignataro]

now you tell me these things!

[Brad M]

:

Great response there Frank! You were like a machine in the 6hour in that little rocket of yours!

[Sportscar Nut]

Fully agree with Frank's comments but a couple of extra thoughts also (pending budget).

- Koni Sport all round work a treat (suggest 25% extra bump on front shocks if getting rebuilt as removes that sag/ lean Sud's give under cornering)
- Solid bushes in front control arms (most of the front end in fact)
- Lowered engine gives a fantastic enhancement to the car's brilliant handling due to the lower centre of gravity & lowers' the front control arms to horizontal so hence less torque steer (need to lengthen top engine mount and space bottom front mount)
- Standard top front shocker mount bushes are too soft & need replacing with more solid bushes to improve steering (not sure where to get after market one's now but might be able to source - let me know)
- Lowered King Spring's are pretty cheap now and bought a set recently (but have not fitted) that apparently lower the car 35mm at front and 30mm at rear)
- If not going cold air intakes, suggest opening the air cleaner up 'significantly' as will give a great & cheap HP improvement
- Good tyres- the best you can afford!
- If keeping in board brakes (which is a must to keep that Sud feel and steering precision), will need plenty of cooling!!!

PS Go the 1.7 8 valve engine

All the best
Paul

[Fetta GTV]

haha

'FettaGTV' and '116gtv' discussing mods to sprints/suds.  You guys know the answer, sell it and get yourself into an ALFETTA!!!!!! 

Yes, username does not reflect new unhealthy interest in boxer engine alfa's.
The alfetta is my show pony, the sprint is the new toy to have some fun in.
Some excellent info here. I'm off to the shed to start pulling surplus weight out right now.

[116gtv]

haha

'FettaGTV' and '116gtv' discussing mods to sprints/suds.  You guys know the answer, sell it and get yourself into an ALFETTA!!!!!! 

Nice one!

[116gtv]

Thanks Frank and Paul, excellent info. Plenty to digest, much appreciated.

[116gtv]

Guys,
Any disadvantage with converting to studs? Should I thread lock them in or do they need to come out for service work?

[Evan Bottcher]

Great detailed response from Frank (go team).  I'm a lot slower than Frank so any advice I give you is secondary...

If/when you get to getting springs wound for you, I suggest the rule of thumb 2:3 front-rear stiffness.  Rear should be significantly stiffer than the front.  I run a rear swaybar (series 1 Sud swaybar turned around) and no front swaybar, although when I stiffen the front a bit more I may hook it up again and see the results.

I run QFM 750 brake pads which work brilliantly.  As Frank said, just upgrade the front the back really doesn't do much work.  I run outboard ventilated discs on the front from a 16v 33, so lost my handbrake.  We replumbed from the master so one circuit just runs the front, and the other circuit runs the rear via a wilwood limiting valve.  That's turned almost completely off, so heavily restricting the rear braking.

Frank mentions making the rear of the car lower than the front - I did that with the latest rear springs and it made a big difference in weight transfer.  I don't lock the rears near as badly coming over Lukey Heights as I used to.

It's hard to say what did the most to change the handling of my car - springs, sway bar, weight loss, camber...  Best to just get the car safe to drive (baffled sump and some brake pads) and then get out there and change things, feel the difference.  That's the most fun when you're making significant improvements every meeting.

Enjoy!

[116gtv]

Thanks, Evan!