ALfa 156 JTS 2.0 wheel alingment

[DDALFA]

With my alfa 156 jts 2.0 2002 i have taken it to some well known tire places in melbourne ....dont want to mention names ,.....for wheel alingment.

one of them tried doing it and was all wrong ....i was been told that its bit complicated with this car....
next time i went to another one ....and the drive ended up being noisy than ever (have pirelli p7's fitted new ones) so tires are ok. so far i have been to 4 of them and they dont seem to be knowing exactly what they are doing.

The car seems to be very unstable while driving ....and just not comfortable to handle.

Talking to some other experts told me that there is no camber setting and the toe in/toe out something like that has to be 2 degrees ....and the alingment has to be done in 2 steps .....do once ....roll the car back and forward and then do it again to get absolutely perfect.


Could anyone please suggest a good option to go to.

responces greatly appretiated

[ANG156]

The 156 only has front and rear toe adjustment. Camber and caster are not adjustable.
If your 156 has been lowered than your going to run more negative camber. When i got mine done, i was shocked to find it had approx 2 degree camber because of this but checking the alfa owner site i found with this set up known as sport pack in the uk it was normal. 

Not sure about the car being unstable and not comfortable while driving but since you've tried a tyre place already why not step it up a notch and go to a suspension place like centreline suspension in thomastown or city suspension.

Here are some of those links from alfa owner which mention instability due to toe;
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/253755-156-wheel-alignment-advice-clarification.html
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/103365-front-wheels-camber-caster-toe-in-1998-156ts.html
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/42966-156-wheel-alignment-what-can-be-adjusted.html

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Craig at Trackside tyres in Kilsyth.  Does a lot of Alfas, knows how to set them up.

[UNICO]

I've used Ralph at Trutrack in North Melbourne, never for my 156 though, however for all my other alfa's and fiat's and he seemed to be OK

[gtr]

I have used Centreline at Thomastown (tel.9469 2914) and found them excellent in every respect. Speak with Glen or Chris

[jayarr]

Not sure about the correct setting for Toe in/out. But would have thought that 2mm at the wheel rim would not cause gross issues.

Camber and Caster, though not adjustable can change due to wear or damage (like a bent strut). Still very much worth checking to ensure they are right. Wear of ball joints can contribute to bad driving experience.

No particular recommendations for who, I'd take mine to a dealer for anything other than toe.

[John Hanslow]

Dunlop Motorsport in Brunswick are Club sponsors who really know their stuff.

A few years ago I went there and got my Alfa aligned and the technician mentioned that he once worked for Alfa Romeo Australia years ago and knows exactly what to do.  A wheel alignment as per 'the book' is not actually always correct.

I recently went to a large franchise chain whwn I bought my 147.  AS you do I wanted to check tyres, alignm,ent and of course the wheel balance.   It is most important with alloy rimsto get them  balanced (most important with 17") and aligned.

The technician confirmed that with front wheel drive European cars, you have to make an extra adjustment to counter tyre were due ti the FWD issues (flat spots - 50 cent piece spots) that happen if this is not done.

In deed he stated it MUST be done every 10,000 kms and to prolong tyre life, a good ride and safety.

[DDALFA]

thanks guys for the direction ....appretiate heaps .....brunswick being the closest to me ....will try there first `....John, anyone particular in dunlop sports to be contacted like GTR  and
ANG156 suggested for Centreline?

regards,

[colcol]

Re 156 Alignment, my specs say that the front wheels should toe out 1mm per side, that is 2mm toe total and the camber should be negative -42 minutes + or - 20 minutes, that means that the wheels should lean in at the top, looking at them from the side of the car, the toe is adjustable on either side, the camber is not, if your car has been lowered or the springs have sagged, then you will have more negative camber than the standard specs, this is good and bad, you will go round corners faster because the tyre won't roll onto the shoulder as much, the bad points are more uneven tyre wear, car won't brake as good as tyre will be on a slight angle to the road, this can be fixed by putting in a camber kit which gives you adjustment on the front suspension to get it back to standard specs, some of the dodgy wheel aligners when they adjust the toe only adjust one side, and even though the toe is ok, the steering wheel will be offset to one side which will drive you mad, but not only that, the steering wheel must be legally within 3 degrees of straightness when the car is travelling straight, because if the airbag goes of when the wheel is at an angle it won't work as the manufacturer intended, what the good wheel aligners do is they put a 'holder' on the steering wheel to keep it straight while they adjust the toe, you DO NOT take the steering wheel off to re centre it, you adjust the left hand AND right hand track arms to achieve perfect alignment, Colin.

[ANG156]

Dunlop Motorsport in Brunswick are Club sponsors who really know their stuff.

A few years ago I went there and got my Alfa aligned and the technician mentioned that he once worked for Alfa Romeo Australia years ago and knows exactly what to do.  A wheel alignment as per 'the book' is not actually always correct.

Yes Stuckey Tyre Service are also very good. My dad has always used them for his 164 aswell as my brother with his 116 series giulietta. Russel is the guy to speak to. He is a passionate car person and seems to like alfa's. When I first met him he was driving a dark green 156 selespeed with gold compomotive wheels and the latest in the dunlop tarmac rubber. Top bloke and always seems to remember a face and gives a good deal.

this can be fixed by putting in a camber kit which gives you adjustment on the front suspension to get it back to standard specs,

Yes this is true. But a camber kit can cost $500+. Chris at centreline recommended machining something to provide adjustment when i got my wheel alignment done but i never went ahead with it. I believe my eibach's which have been in the car since new have sagged and which is why my car has a little more negative camber. However, considering the limited mileage i do i have never looked into fixing it. Since i have the red eibachs approx 45mm lowering over the originals, i have considered putting the original factory springs in the car to make it more tolerant to bumps on the road and not having to worry about scraping my front bumper wherever i go. Do you know if sagged springs car be fixed? Also i like the lowered look on my car and want to know what springs other owners are running? John do you have the red eibach springs, the black eibach springs known as the prokit (30mm lowering over original) or the factory springs?

[colcol]

Re sagged springs, you could try buying some standard springs from a Alfa wrecker as they must have lots of them as they never wear out, BUT, they may also be sagged, you could try taking your old standard springs to a springmaker, not a spring retailer and asking them if they can retension them by reheating them so they may go back to standard height, or putting back your standard springs and seeing what the negative camber is, and the ride height is and seeing if you can live with that, but remember as you change springs, you will upset the wheel alignment, change the toe and you will change the camber, change the camber and the toe alters, sure camber kits are $500, but tyres are also expensive, that $500 camber kit could save the life of 2 front tyres, Colin.

[Barry Edmunds]

I would like to back up GTR with his recommendation of Centreline Suspension in Thomastown.

They have lots of experience setting up both road and track cars and that includes Alfas.

Again, talk to Glem or Chris.

[ANG156]

I just measured my car and found that the lowering is correct. A standard 156 has a ride height of 690mm, with the eibach sportsline it comes to 645 which is within the specification of the springs from eibach (approx. 45-50mm lower). That confirms that the springs have not sagged overtime.

[John Hanslow]

Thanks for the contact details Barry.

John do you have the red eibach springs, the black eibach springs known as the prokit (30mm lowering over original) or the factory springs?

Interseting, at Monza Motors the other day, Hugh had a very quick look at my new (for me) 147.

I was told it had a full set of eibachs on it and it is rather firm.  But the springs on the back are black.  I am sure the ones on the front are red.  Will have to have it looked at for a suspension overview as I think I want normal springs with the old Alfa fix for Aussi roads  - Koni yellows.

[Alfa156Melb]

I just measured my car and found that the lowering is correct. A standard 156 has a ride height of 690mm, with the eibach sportsline it comes to 645 which is within the specification of the springs from eibach (approx. 45-50mm lower). That confirms that the springs have not sagged overtime.

I thought I had the Eiback Pro Kit (Red Springs for Alfa), my ride hight, measured from top of wheel arch to ground is 645mm... 

I have no idea what the standard height is - is 690mm definitely correct?

The reason I'm asking is that I need to replace my shocks. I was considering Bilstein B6's but if I have the Sportline setup, I guess it will have to be B8.