Author Topic: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project  (Read 15515 times)

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Colin Edwards

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2021, 01:05:09 PM »
Mmmmmm.  If your changing gear when the engine is bouncing on the limiter you maybe changing a tad late!  Seen more than one TS let go here in Vic.  I'll admit though some of these engines may have been iffy before hitting the track!

Give the "50" profile tires a shot.  They'll provide a bit more grip under braking over the 45's and in theory run cooler.
 
We use Motul RBF 600 or the Penrite 600 in our FF.  The Motul has a slightly higher dry and wet boiling point though.  Driver reckons the Motul also feels better.  Whatever fluid you use - bleed the brakes often!

Not sure if disabling the balance shaft is allowed in the regs!?!  A few restrictions on induction system mods as well methinks!?!
Present
2020 Giulietta Veloce
2018 Abarth 124 Spider
1987 75 3.0

Past
2015 Giulietta QV
2009 159 3.2 Ti Q4
2012 Giulietta TCT Veloce
2006 147 Ti 2 door Selespeed
1979 Alfasud Ti 1.5

warsch

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2021, 03:52:28 PM »
Ferodo have the ds2500 and ds3000 which is a race pad. The ds3000 rear pads only fit from 2002 onwards. Mine is 2000 so would ds3000 on the front and ds2500 on the rear work? Would the 2002 rear brake change just be a change of calipers or is there more to it?

Regarding the brake fluid, I just purchased the Penrite Racing Brake Fluid 600 Dot 4. Are there any other good options? I am a Nulon convert after using their additives but Penrite is great as well.

I haven't noticed any changes in my lap time regardless of what the rear pads are. I used to have EBC yellowstuff at the rear, then EBC ultimax and now it's some generic stuff. I also believe that 156 has to much rear brake bias so better not to go race pads at the rear.

156 and 147 had 251 mm rear rotors with different calipers and pads, they are interchangeable though. 2002 onwards and GTAs have bigger 270 mm rotors, which you can install, but there's no reason to.

I've been running the same brake fluid for all the 4 years I've been racing and never had a problem. I partially flush the calipers every now and then. Again, I guess anything of similar spec would do alright.

warsch

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2021, 03:55:52 PM »
Mmmmmm.  If your changing gear when the engine is bouncing on the limiter you maybe changing a tad late!  Seen more than one TS let go here in Vic.  I'll admit though some of these engines may have been iffy before hitting the track!

I don't let it bounce, but just by a few revs. It seems to provide the best performance that way.

But yeah, previous history is important. I've got a donor car with a TS with just 140kkm which has its block pierced through back and front. No sure how that happened, but it was some young bloke's daily and never raced.

warsch

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2021, 03:57:30 PM »
Give the "50" profile tires a shot.  They'll provide a bit more grip under braking over the 45's and in theory run cooler.

45s have smaller overall diameter so can provide better acceleration. Can't say which would be faster though, depends on many factors. So I'd go with the cheaper one.

Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2021, 07:10:50 PM »
Ferodo have the ds2500 and ds3000 which is a race pad. The ds3000 rear pads only fit from 2002 onwards. Mine is 2000 so would ds3000 on the front and ds2500 on the rear work? Would the 2002 rear brake change just be a change of calipers or is there more to it?

Regarding the brake fluid, I just purchased the Penrite Racing Brake Fluid 600 Dot 4. Are there any other good options? I am a Nulon convert after using their additives but Penrite is great as well.

156 and 147 had 251 mm rear rotors with different calipers and pads, they are interchangeable though. 2002 onwards and GTAs have bigger 270 mm rotors, which you can install, but there's no reason to.


Thanks that is what I was after. I will have to check the discs that I bought on the weekend.

These guys are pretty good with the DS2500 being around $580 delivered https://shop.alfisti.net/index.php?language=en

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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2021, 07:11:47 PM »

We use Motul RBF 600 or the Penrite 600 in our FF.  The Motul has a slightly higher dry and wet boiling point though.  Driver reckons the Motul also feels better.  Whatever fluid you use - bleed the brakes often!


Thanks Colin. I will keep the Motul in mind for next time. I would be happy to try both to see the difference for myself.
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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2021, 08:24:16 PM »
Ferodo have the ds2500 and ds3000 which is a race pad. The ds3000 rear pads only fit from 2002 onwards. Mine is 2000 so would ds3000 on the front and ds2500 on the rear work? Would the 2002 rear brake change just be a change of calipers or is there more to it?

Regarding the brake fluid, I just purchased the Penrite Racing Brake Fluid 600 Dot 4. Are there any other good options? I am a Nulon convert after using their additives but Penrite is great as well.

156 and 147 had 251 mm rear rotors with different calipers and pads, they are interchangeable though. 2002 onwards and GTAs have bigger 270 mm rotors, which you can install, but there's no reason to.


Thanks that is what I was after. I will have to check the discs that I bought on the weekend.

These guys are pretty good with the DS2500 being around $580 delivered https://shop.alfisti.net/index.php?language=en

For everyones info , the ferodo ds2500 rear pads for the 251mm disc also fit the 166 and 164 Q4.
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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2021, 09:51:36 AM »
General question - where abouts can you cut a wire and ensure that it is still safe? For example door speaker wires or the roof light wires? I want to get rid of them. Is it a case of cutting them off and wrapping them with electrical tape or is there more to it?
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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2021, 09:56:24 AM »
Bucket seat question - would an xl bucket seat with head restraints fit in the 156? For example the momo seat attached.

Are side mount rails the best option or can the sliding rails work well? If I do an enduro with mates than they would probably need to slide the seat to fit.

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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2021, 09:57:30 AM »
Anyone tried the Monza 6 point harness? It seems well priced and is fia approved.
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Colin Edwards

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2021, 01:26:58 PM »
When it comes to electrical, good start its to disconnect the battery, make and have a coffee, glass of red or a beer, then go for it. 
If you are stripping the interior, and don't intend restoring it later, remove as much cable as possible - but label EVERYTHING.
Cable can be heavy.  I removed near 7kg from my 75 that was redundant after the PO removed the aftermarket stereo!
If you intend to cut cables - 1 core at a time with side cutters - even with the battery disconnected!  Then fold back the cut cable 1800 on itself and tape up.  Liquid electrical tape can be applied with a brush or exposed conductors dipped into the can.  Any wiring exposed during the interior strip out can be damaged given the now loss of mechanical protection. 

That 156 looks very nice!
Present
2020 Giulietta Veloce
2018 Abarth 124 Spider
1987 75 3.0

Past
2015 Giulietta QV
2009 159 3.2 Ti Q4
2012 Giulietta TCT Veloce
2006 147 Ti 2 door Selespeed
1979 Alfasud Ti 1.5

Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2021, 02:51:36 PM »
When it comes to electrical, good start its to disconnect the battery, make and have a coffee, glass of red or a beer, then go for it. 
If you are stripping the interior, and don't intend restoring it later, remove as much cable as possible - but label EVERYTHING.
Cable can be heavy.  I removed near 7kg from my 75 that was redundant after the PO removed the aftermarket stereo!
If you intend to cut cables - 1 core at a time with side cutters - even with the battery disconnected!  Then fold back the cut cable 1800 on itself and tape up.  Liquid electrical tape can be applied with a brush or exposed conductors dipped into the can.  Any wiring exposed during the interior strip out can be damaged given the now loss of mechanical protection. 

That 156 looks very nice!

I can handle the beer and wine part ;D. Ordered some side cutters. 3M also do a tartan electrical tape so will give that a shot.
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warsch

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2021, 09:17:25 AM »
Bucket seat question - would an xl bucket seat with head restraints fit in the 156? For example the momo seat attached.

Are side mount rails the best option or can the sliding rails work well? If I do an enduro with mates than they would probably need to slide the seat to fit.

Standard 156 rails and the frame underneath are really high. So the frame that is part of the body is positioned high, then you add standard rails and then L-brackets. I have a Sparco bucket seat set up that way and I reach roof lining with my helmet and I'm 176 cm. I suppose seat like that would fit, but barely. A good idea is to cut that standard frame out and weld in proper mounts thus giving like 5 cm extra clearance or more.

warsch

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2021, 09:20:41 AM »
Anyone tried the Monza 6 point harness? It seems well priced and is fia approved.

I've got harness exactly like that, they are good, but luckily I haven't actually tried them so far. I also have same brand but with narrow shoulder straps for HANS. Straps, locks - all of that look solid and good quality.

Surely Autotecnica beats fakes which are plentyful with bug name brands. I've also seen some rally guys sporting this brand so I guess it's ok.

Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2021, 10:00:16 AM »
Bucket seat question - would an xl bucket seat with head restraints fit in the 156? For example the momo seat attached.

Are side mount rails the best option or can the sliding rails work well? If I do an enduro with mates than they would probably need to slide the seat to fit.

Standard 156 rails and the frame underneath are really high. So the frame that is part of the body is positioned high, then you add standard rails and then L-brackets. I have a Sparco bucket seat set up that way and I reach roof lining with my helmet and I'm 176 cm. I suppose seat like that would fit, but barely. A good idea is to cut that standard frame out and weld in proper mounts thus giving like 5 cm extra clearance or more.

Yeah I took all the roof lining out in the 156. I had a GT with a sunroof and sold it after scraping the roof without a helmet.

I will probably get Maureci Motors to cut out the frame and weld it to the floor. Would they weld in the L Shape brackets to the floor in that case? Or do you make a new square frame and than weld in the L shape brackets like these https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Racing-Seat-Side-Mount-Bracket-Velo-Universal-Recaro-OMP-Bride-Cobra-Sparco-/203076607116?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0?
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