Author Topic: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project  (Read 21790 times)

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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #300 on: November 29, 2021, 02:29:28 PM »
Front shot of the seat
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Colin Edwards

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #301 on: November 29, 2021, 02:42:09 PM »
Unfortunately shoulder strap anchor points are way too forward and way too low.  Angle of strap MUST be no more than 450 to the horizontal.  Ideally should be horizontal +/- 50
Look up Schedule I in the CAMS Manual.
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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #302 on: November 29, 2021, 03:55:12 PM »
Short of a harness bar, this seems like an okay temporary solution. The problem with it going in the metal for the upper part of the rear seats is that it super thin whereas the metal that it is in currently is very thick. This is a temporary solution until roll cage gets installed. Plus I prefer this than a seat belt as a sealt belt is essentially bolted in with one bolt into the metal plus it is 20 years old. I couldn't imagine a standard seat and seat belt being safer than this temporary set up.
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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #303 on: November 29, 2021, 05:37:15 PM »
Another tip is to keep the standard rubbers around the doors. I took them off because they are surprisingly heavy but when I sprayed the car down to check the water was getting into the interior and there are holes left by some of the clips.
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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #304 on: December 03, 2021, 02:25:38 PM »
Another thing I learned from speaking to people at the track days is that you can buy a Dorian Timing Unit Micro Mounting Bracket from here https://dorian.com.au/products/auto-sport/

It's $18.70 with express shipping. Saves duct tapping a bag onto the car at every track day.

Most people mount onto the bottom grill in the front bumper.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 02:29:02 PM by Alfatango »
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warsch

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #305 on: December 06, 2021, 12:57:24 PM »
I've got this dorian timer bracket for about $10 at the only event I participated that uses dorian timers. Our both circuit use a different one, and third circuit yet another one.

As for the rear harness straps - I opted for a 3 mm steel plate that I used to reinforce the thin rear wall metal.

Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #306 on: December 06, 2021, 04:35:26 PM »
Yeah not sure about other states but Vic Hill Climb Championship and the AROCA Sprints use the Dorian Timer. I think they are based in Bendigo as I had to send one back after I forgot to take it off at a Sprint.

The book Alfa Romeo Competition Touring Cars 155 156 147 by Peter Collins is great.
So far I have finished the 155 era and the final cars were around 1060kg. They started as fwd v6 than went to awd 2 lite turbos from the lancia than went to awd v6.

I feel slightly vindicated with my front livery as the multi colored 155 design had a similar design for the front livery just extended it onto the doors.

I would love to get a plate style oz racing copy in a 16x7 as per the first and second picture. Anyone know if anything similar exists?

I am certain the speedline 17s on the 156 were inspired by the 155 oz racing wheel as per the third pic.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 04:46:21 PM by Alfatango »
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Alfatango

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alanm

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #308 on: December 07, 2021, 02:17:47 PM »
It was great to see your car at PI I love your enthusism!
Hopefully it's contagious and we see more Alfas at our events in the new year.
Regarding the discussion about the harness mounting points, Colin's is advice is good.
The Motorsport Australia rules are very specific about this for good reason spinal damage is a risk with the anchors in their current position.
At present your car would fail inspection by a scrutineer for this reason.
This is of course a mute point if you install a cage before your next event!
Cheers,
Al.
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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #309 on: December 14, 2021, 09:54:34 PM »
From the book mentioned above, the thing that fascinates me is that the floor of the race car is almost the same as the production car. When I was fixing the two speed holes I did with the chisel I noticed that everything besides the exhaust is tucked into the gear box tunnel. Even the metal brake lines run through the gear box tunnel.

As the homolgation pics show, the race car had a different tunnel for the exhaust but otherwise it's the same. The race cars also used eibach springs and bilstein Shocks which explains why the red eibachs were optional on the 156. Wouldn't surprise me if the Shocks were also bilstein or upgraded as they match the red eibachs pretty well

What's also cool is that engine ran trumpets.

 
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warsch

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #310 on: December 15, 2021, 01:50:26 PM »
The bilsteins on that race car have not too much in common with B6/B8/B12.

Proper race units would have spring rates much higher and valving to match. The dampers would be 3-way adjustable, or at the very least 2-way.

I'm not too familiar with Bilstein competition products, but I did inquire into KW.

So KW and their daughter brand ST. Here's the pricing for 156:

ST suspension lowered kit - 800 AUD (35/25 Nm/mm spring rates)
KW var1 - 1300 AUD
KW var2 - 1800 AUD (80/40 Nm/mm)
KW var3 - 2000 AUD (80/40 Nm/mm)
KW competition 2 way - 4000 AUD (any spring rate, recommended is 120/160 Nm/mm for circuit applications)
KW competition 3 way - 10000 AUD (any spring rate, recommended is 120/160 Nm/mm for circuit applications)

Prices may not be up to date, but you get the idea.

And from my experience, +20% is not good enough for track work.

So for 156 I went from 3.5/2.5 kg to 12/5 kg, which is similar to TS cup control suspension rates. I also think even this may not be good enough if you run slicks, but I'm yet to try that.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 01:59:06 PM by warsch »

Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #311 on: December 16, 2021, 07:08:03 AM »
Cheers Warsch. I figured that the optional eibachs aren't exactly the same as the race car :D. That's some quality info right there. For myself I am fine with the optional eibachs for now as until my times are consistent for a few track days than I will get  some new suspension. Next step is roll cage. And potentially an engine rebuild at some point if my mates ever do get together for a 24h race. You need minimum of 4 per team.

I would have to read through the book again but KW were the sponsor of the first series 156 race cars with the wider arches and the latter model 156. The wider arches allowed a 17x9 wheel. The first car had a 19 inch wheel. Also one of the production style cars had the oz racing plate style wheels.

All this research is making me appreciate the 156 gta more but at the current prices a 2nd hand new guilia veloce makes way more sense.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 07:13:05 AM by Alfatango »
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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #312 on: December 16, 2021, 07:09:04 AM »
Group N and standard style racing
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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #313 on: December 23, 2021, 03:38:32 PM »
Merry Christmas! Looking forward to the break. To spread some Christmas cheer here is an alfa candle light pic. Also I noticed the engine sits on an angle. Race spec? Do earlier cars have the Twin Spark on an angle?
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Alfatango

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Re: Twin Spark Cup & Enduro 156 Project
« Reply #314 on: December 25, 2021, 08:12:42 PM »
Merry Christmas to one and all. So the heads on the Twin Spark are at a 48 degree angle. Looks like half a v8 but turns out it is based/derived from the 105 gtam motor. So the block is the same as a nord twin spark? It's all new to me.

https://youtu.be/P_tUhnOh12Y

https://youtu.be/iuElqiMu3P0

This channel has got a lot of great info on alfas! There was a 156 gtam with 3.5l busso that never made production. That would have been a monster.

https://youtu.be/P_tUhnOh12Y

http://www.italiaspeed.com/news_2002_01_135bologna156gtam.html

The 19s have a similar size to the 19s on the 159 3.2 jts ti q4
« Last Edit: December 25, 2021, 08:17:14 PM by Alfatango »
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