Author Topic: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6  (Read 3101 times)

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Chet

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Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« on: June 26, 2021, 03:44:03 AM »
Does anyone know for sure which Holden timing chain kits fit the 3.2 V6?  Found 2 type for the 3.6L Alloytec.  One with 3 Morse chain and one with 1 Morse chain and 2 roller chain.  Which one does the Alfa use? 

Sorry, can't work out how to post pictures for reference
« Last Edit: June 26, 2021, 03:46:28 AM by Chet »

Stu159

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2021, 09:05:22 PM »
Hi Chet,

I have absolutely no experience in dealing with Mace (Australian company), but I have read that V6 owners in the UK are happy with the performance cams they sell for the V6. I also own a V6 but haven't needed to replace the timing chains yet. I'm also not a mechanic  :)
Good luck

https://www.maceengineering.com.au/MACE-PREMIUM-TIMING-CHAIN-KIT-WITH-GEARS-ALFA-ROMEO-159-JTS-939A0-32L-V6

Stu
« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 07:35:35 AM by Stu159 »
Now: 159 V6 Q4 (2006)
Past: Alfetta GTV 2000L (1980) chrome

Chet

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2021, 02:37:28 AM »
Thanks Stu. 
Does anyone know which is better, the Mace kits or original GM kit?

Colin Edwards

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2021, 02:28:29 PM »
INA is an extremely reputable bearing manufacturer.  Their needle roller bearings and cages etc are second to none.  I have used their roller cages in 17000rpm 2 stroke kart race engines for ever. 
Anything with their name on it should be trusted.

The JTS chains wear due to lack of good quality lubricant brought about by soot created by DI engines such as the JTS. 
Its highly unlikely timing chains "stretch" as some claim.  If they did indeed stretch due to "soft" inner link or outer link material the pins would pull out causing catastrophic failure as opposed to simple elongation due to wear. 
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 02:36:56 PM by Colin Edwards »
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Alfatango

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2021, 11:41:41 PM »
Hi Chet,

I have absolutely no experience in dealing with Mace (Australian company), but I have read that V6 owners in the UK are happy with the performance cams they sell for the V6. I also own a V6 but haven't needed to replace the timing chains yet. I'm also not a mechanic  :)
Good luck

https://www.maceengineering.com.au/MACE-PREMIUM-TIMING-CHAIN-KIT-WITH-GEARS-ALFA-ROMEO-159-JTS-939A0-32L-V6

Stu

Wow 30rwkw with the cams. Didn't know that was an option.

https://www.maceengineering.com.au/epages/mace.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/mace/Categories/Vehicles/Alfa_Romeo/159
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Stu159

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2021, 08:01:29 PM »
but it also says "with a full exhaust" Tango. On a Commodore, that would be a cost effective exercise, different story on a 159 though. We're talking Auto Delta for headers, imported and fitted. The Mace cams are a decent price, but add on the headers etc and you're talking a very expensive 30kw, as nice as it would be.

Stu
Now: 159 V6 Q4 (2006)
Past: Alfetta GTV 2000L (1980) chrome

Alfatango

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2021, 08:21:11 AM »
True. But it's still a $650 upgrade plus a couple of labour hours so say $1k. But it does say something about a lumpy idle and hopefully that's an option. Don't need the alfa pretending to be an old school v8 ;D. It seems like the best value for money mod that I have come across.

Would a set of cams means that you would have to run in the modified class at the alfa sprints? I guess a lumpy idle would give it away ;D. Unless you just say it's an alfa idling problem...
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Stu159

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2021, 03:42:08 PM »
maybe try the UK forum to see if you can locate someone that has fitted them Tango?

On the sound / idle issue, which would be worse, an Alfa sounding like an old school v8 or a GM engine trying to sound like an Alfa?  ;D

Stu
Now: 159 V6 Q4 (2006)
Past: Alfetta GTV 2000L (1980) chrome

bazzbazz

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2021, 03:48:28 PM »
True. But it's still a $650 upgrade plus a couple of labour hours so say $1k.

A couple of hours hours work!??   ???

I'd pay good money to see that.
2004 Alfa 156 2.0 JTS Sportwagon (Patty)

Alfatango

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2021, 07:52:21 PM »
True. But it's still a $650 upgrade plus a couple of labour hours so say $1k.

A couple of hours hours work!??   ???

I'd pay good money to see that.

Okay so probably closer to 2k with a tune.
156 2.0 TS Track Car

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2x GT JTS Selespeed

Alfatango

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2021, 07:52:53 PM »
maybe try the UK forum to see if you can locate someone that has fitted them Tango?

On the sound / idle issue, which would be worse, an Alfa sounding like an old school v8 or a GM engine trying to sound like an Alfa?  ;D

Stu

Lol true
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Ascari32

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2021, 06:06:34 AM »
Does anyone know for sure which Holden timing chain kits fit the 3.2 V6?  Found 2 type for the 3.6L Alloytec.  One with 3 Morse chain and one with 1 Morse chain and 2 roller chain.  Which one does the Alfa use? 

Sorry, can't work out how to post pictures for reference

The 3.2 JTS is effectively the LLT version of the Holden. And a very good engine at that. What Alfa did was not up to their normally high standards for engines. Timing chains suffer as a consequence.

However, Mace kits are very good. They have revised them to improve their durability. I have their kit fitted to my 3.2 JTS with C.B. cams, Autodelta headers and Supersprint Sports cat/exhaust system.

True, I have made other modifications to my engine to balance oil flow/pressure across the block, which has improved timing enormously. But that aside, Mace are to be recommended, not least because the quality is so good for the money. There again, Alfa charge so much for everything, anyone’s kit is a bargain by comparison.

Do the cams, headers and the exhaust and you will see north of 300bhp. The engine will then do justice to the superb 159 platform - better than the Brera.

However, unless the engine is out for a rebuild, it is an expensive exercise.

Ascari32

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2021, 06:46:51 AM »
True. But it's still a $650 upgrade plus a couple of labour hours so say $1k. But it does say something about a lumpy idle and hopefully that's an option. Don't need the alfa pretending to be an old school v8 ;D. It seems like the best value for money mod that I have come across.

Would a set of cams means that you would have to run in the modified class at the alfa sprints? I guess a lumpy idle would give it away ;D. Unless you just say it's an alfa idling problem...

I doubt there is any truth in the “lumpy idle”; the lift is the same, the duration is even less than Alfa’s standard cams and the engine has NVO at idle. So unless they have changed the lobe centres, they won’t sound particularly sporty. Plus, unless those Manifold cats are replaced, they will just choke whatever one does with the engine!

Ascari32

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2021, 05:47:42 PM »
Hi Chet,

I have absolutely no experience in dealing with Mace (Australian company), but I have read that V6 owners in the UK are happy with the performance cams they sell for the V6. I also own a V6 but haven't needed to replace the timing chains yet. I'm also not a mechanic  :)
Good luck

https://www.maceengineering.com.au/MACE-PREMIUM-TIMING-CHAIN-KIT-WITH-GEARS-ALFA-ROMEO-159-JTS-939A0-32L-V6

Stu

Hi Stu - how’s it going?

To my knowledge, on the general Alfa Forum UK, no one has fitted Mace cams to their 3.2 JTS. Indeed, as Far as I am aware I am the only guy to fit C.B. Special camshafts and they had been sitting on E.B.’s shelves for many year, until I came along.

Having fitted C.B. to five previous Alfa’s, I had a pretty good idea just how good they would be.

The Mace cams look really good value but their lift is the same and their duration less than Alfa’s. So, unless they have moved their lobe centres, the NVO: 2.5deg. static valve timing will have increased.

To gain more power, all things being equal, one needs higher lift or duration - or a combination thereof.

I’d like to get my hands on a set of Mace cams to test. I have a pair of tools to enable me to swap out cams easily and it would be an interesting exercise - but I doubt Mace would oblige.

The Man cats need to go to improve breathing, although Autodelta say they can be replaced with the engine in situ, it is a time consuming exercise. The central Alfa cat is rubbish, with a capital “R” and best replaced with a sports cat, where both banks conjoin at the input and not the outlet. That will make tremendous difference to scavenging/gas flow characteristics. And the car will sound much better at higher revs.

I could go on. But it seems this topic is really just a talking point as it is clear, from the amount needed to be spent puts people off. It is no different on the UK forum, so cat-back systems will remain all the rage. Which is fair enough, at least it gives folks the opportunity to personalise their cars, even if it makes very little tangible difference to performance.

Aside from the price of the Mace cams, there may be an extra bonus in that they could be reground to change the valve timing - something that C.B. can do with theirs.

The Alfa cams can be reground for more torque, but not power - maybe an extra 1 hp at best.

But, regrinding for more torque means increasing the duration and that would rid the 3.2 JTS of NVO and definitely make it sound more Characteristically Alfa - esque!
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 09:25:19 PM by Ascari32 »

Ascari32

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Re: Timing chain kit for 3.2 JTS V6
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2021, 05:03:18 PM »
Does anyone know for sure which Holden timing chain kits fit the 3.2 V6?  Found 2 type for the 3.6L Alloytec.  One with 3 Morse chain and one with 1 Morse chain and 2 roller chain.  Which one does the Alfa use? 

Sorry, can't work out how to post pictures for reference

I hope you have finally got your answer to the question of which kit to use. However, to clear up any ambiguity, the 3.2 JTS uses a morse type primary chain - from the crankshaft to the two “Idlers” above.

These Idlers are driven by the morse, but take their drive via “Roller” chains to the Camshaft VVT Phasor Sprockets.

If you intend to replace the chains, it is wise to do all tensioners as well as these are the fundamental reason why the chains stretch in the first place {unable to maintain tension over an extended period}. True cause is poor oil pressure, principally on the lower timing (morse) chain tensioner.

But that is another story.

I bought my kit directly from Mace who I found to be very helpful. The 3.2 JTS is the LLT version and their kits are specific to each variant - good to see a company still supplying a dwindling number of cars. I should also point out that the original tensioners fitted were prone to failure, with dire consequences. The Mace kit is updated and of high quality.

Kits can be bought on the internet, however, they can be from dubious sources. Buying direct from Mace I felt the safest option.

Enough free advertising for them - as I am sceptical  of the camshaft claims.

They could always let me have a set to test???????