Author Topic: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car  (Read 2273 times)

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Colin Byrne

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105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« on: December 15, 2018, 07:07:12 AM »
So we managed to get from Targa High country pretty much un scathed, (the old manís car, well thatís a different story) we also managed to retain our Crown with back to back wins!.
As weíre not doing Targa Tassie next year Iím having a bit of a break from the rally car and though Iíd start restoring my old 2L road car.  I have the car for a while now, it was my daily driver for a bit, itís very original and hasnít been interfered with much.  The plan is to do it up pretty standard, maybe a couple of Mod Cons hidden away, and probably throw a few go faster parts that have been shed by the other car, but itís definitely not going to be another rally car.!!!
I Ďll try and update via youtube


#Invalid YouTube Link#

https://youtu.be/66qW1TOX_i0
72' 105 2000 GTV Red (tarmac rally/race car)
74' 105 2000 GTV Blue (road car)
68' 105 1600 Giulia Super White (Not sure yet)
01í Nissan Pathfinder (Tow car/Alfa support vehicle)

CitroŽnbender

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2018, 10:45:22 AM »
Will you be able to resist temptation and avoid scope creep?  :)

Beaut smooth technique on the TIG; I'm a sufficiently bad welder to admire the abilities of those who do it so well.

Colin Byrne

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2018, 02:49:32 PM »
Haha, probably not, the battle between good and evel rages on, i'll definitely need the support of the forum to stay away from the dark side!

One thing I that is keeping me up at night is the braking system, well the master cylinder side anyway.  I really can't stand the twin remote booster setup, I don't like remote boosters on principle, I think they look awful in the he engine bay, and the 5 billion brake lines running around the firewall are a totall mess.  I guess on a left hand drive it was much neater, so would be getting rid of them be real no-no on an otherwise original car?

Thanks for the welding comments, a lot of practice there welding spaceframs roll cages and extractors..... so many extractors
72' 105 2000 GTV Red (tarmac rally/race car)
74' 105 2000 GTV Blue (road car)
68' 105 1600 Giulia Super White (Not sure yet)
01í Nissan Pathfinder (Tow car/Alfa support vehicle)

aggie57

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2018, 03:51:37 PM »
I guess the obvious question re. the brakes Colin is how to engineer a twin circuit system with the carbs right where the booster would go on a typical pedal box. Any ideas?
Alister
14 Alfa's since 1977. 
Currently 1973 GTV 2000, a couple of Mercs and a '14 Beetle (yes, seriously......)
Gone......far to many to list

CitroŽnbender

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2018, 04:01:41 PM »
A 147/156 type pedal box is surely one starting point, and not expensive or rare. Take the whole firewall plate as a headstart.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 07:30:28 PM by CitroŽnbender »

Craig_m67

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2018, 07:24:40 PM »
I guess the obvious question re. the brakes Colin is how to engineer a twin circuit system with the carbs right where the booster would go on a typical pedal box. Any ideas?

Could the pedal box, thick brake bar and booster from a 116 car be utilised somehow?
(Always looked like a bodge to me, but you might as well follow the factoryís development footsteps)
'66 Duetto (lacework of doom)
'73 1600 GT Junior (ensconced)
'03 156 1.9JTD Sportwagon (daily driver)

rowan_bris

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2018, 08:51:38 AM »
It works - that is by far the most common conversion method used, it just doesn't look although neat!

aggie57

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2018, 05:10:27 PM »
Yes, thatís the most common method per LHD to RHD conversions but I agree it looks and really is a bit of an average solution.

Iím thinking Colin with all his experience fabricating solutions for his rally car may have some still-secret thoughts on a more elegant approach.

Full disclosure as well, my also-Le Mans blue GTV is about to hit the paint shop and even though Iíve spent $ on some new boosters and have fabricated new pipes etc., I could be tempted by a more modern and better thought out alternative.
Alister
14 Alfa's since 1977. 
Currently 1973 GTV 2000, a couple of Mercs and a '14 Beetle (yes, seriously......)
Gone......far to many to list

CitroŽnbender

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2018, 06:20:30 PM »
Any chance of a RHD firewall photo?

bonno

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2018, 07:22:09 PM »
In regards to brake booster options, a remote mounted brake booster could be located underbody/boot. See attached diagram of simple brake circuit.
now
83 Alfetta GTV
05 156 JTS manual
past
00 156 selespeed
72 1750 GTV

aggie57

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2018, 11:30:17 PM »
For compliance and safety reasons you need a dual circuit master. Which is why we have two boosters in these cars, thereís nowhere to place a single booster upstream of the master like in most cars.
Alister
14 Alfa's since 1977. 
Currently 1973 GTV 2000, a couple of Mercs and a '14 Beetle (yes, seriously......)
Gone......far to many to list

LaStregaNera

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2018, 11:47:39 AM »
Haha, probably not, the battle between good and evel rages on, i'll definitely need the support of the forum to stay away from the dark side!

One thing I that is keeping me up at night is the braking system, well the master cylinder side anyway.  I really can't stand the twin remote booster setup, I don't like remote boosters on principle, I think they look awful in the he engine bay, and the 5 billion brake lines running around the firewall are a totall mess.  I guess on a left hand drive it was much neater, so would be getting rid of them be real no-no on an otherwise original car?

Thanks for the welding comments, a lot of practice there welding spaceframs roll cages and extractors..... so many extractors

I designed an built a bracket and pushrod to use a more easily available tandem master (that happens to come in the right size for eliminating the boosters) in the stock position. I've been running my install for 6 years now, Sketchl is running one of my kits on his GTA rep. Tidies the engine bay up very nicely, gives excellent pedal feel with the 2l brakes I'm running. I think Pancho *might* get his GTV with this setup on it on the road in 2019, and looking at putting one into Derek's Giulia Super in the next couple of months...
66 GT Veloce - in one piece now!
Katana, Gamma and Mito too.

Craig_m67

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2018, 01:50:10 PM »
Haha, probably not, the battle between good and evel rages on, i'll definitely need the support of the forum to stay away from the dark side!

One thing I that is keeping me up at night is the braking system, well the master cylinder side anyway.  I really can't stand the twin remote booster setup, I don't like remote boosters on principle, I think they look awful in the he engine bay, and the 5 billion brake lines running around the firewall are a totall mess.  I guess on a left hand drive it was much neater, so would be getting rid of them be real no-no on an otherwise original car?

Thanks for the welding comments, a lot of practice there welding spaceframs roll cages and extractors..... so many extractors

I designed an built a bracket and pushrod to use a more easily available tandem master (that happens to come in the right size for eliminating the boosters) in the stock position. I've been running my install for 6 years now, Sketchl is running one of my kits on his GTA rep. Tidies the engine bay up very nicely, gives excellent pedal feel with the 2l brakes I'm running. I think Pancho *might* get his GTV with this setup on it on the road in 2019, and looking at putting one into Derek's Giulia Super in the next couple of months...

Talk to me.. pics, details - Merry Christmas!
'66 Duetto (lacework of doom)
'73 1600 GT Junior (ensconced)
'03 156 1.9JTD Sportwagon (daily driver)

LaStregaNera

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2018, 02:04:29 PM »
This is a pic from before I had the custom pushrod ends made, they're now a zinc plated piece that seals the master cylinder boot. The crappy spring is no longer there, and a pedal stop that mirrors the clutch pedal stop on the cable clutch cars is now used. Really must shoot some updated photos.
There's a built in circuit failure switch, I don't have a light on the dash to connect it to, but the dual circuit cars did I believe (incidentally, the shuttle valve that triggers the switch can cause problems when bleeding the system up from dry - if you make full pressure in one circuit with air in the other it will lock over and prevent the empty circuit from being bled up).
Twin reservoirs in the back corner of the engine bay was what I wound up with.
I'm currently trying to find the time to rework the design as a CNC'd alloy mounting piece rather than the laser cut and tig welded bracket that the first batch was done as. I've also been trying to find a LHD pedal box/master mounting to investigate fitment to LHD single circuit cars.
66 GT Veloce - in one piece now!
Katana, Gamma and Mito too.

aggie57

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Re: 105 restoration - definitely not a rally car
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2018, 04:34:09 PM »
This is a pic from before I had the custom pushrod ends made, they're now a zinc plated piece that seals the master cylinder boot. The crappy spring is no longer there, and a pedal stop that mirrors the clutch pedal stop on the cable clutch cars is now used. Really must shoot some updated photos.
There's a built in circuit failure switch, I don't have a light on the dash to connect it to, but the dual circuit cars did I believe (incidentally, the shuttle valve that triggers the switch can cause problems when bleeding the system up from dry - if you make full pressure in one circuit with air in the other it will lock over and prevent the empty circuit from being bled up).
Twin reservoirs in the back corner of the engine bay was what I wound up with.
I'm currently trying to find the time to rework the design as a CNC'd alloy mounting piece rather than the laser cut and tig welded bracket that the first batch was done as. I've also been trying to find a LHD pedal box/master mounting to investigate fitment to LHD single circuit cars.

Definitely interested!  From the pictures it looks like the master bolts up to the standard holes and uses the standard pedals?  With the bracket you designed? 
Alister
14 Alfa's since 1977. 
Currently 1973 GTV 2000, a couple of Mercs and a '14 Beetle (yes, seriously......)
Gone......far to many to list