Filling A/C gas

[ARQ164 Shane]

Hi guys
My car had no A/C gas in the system so I have
Renewed all the green Orings on the hole system
Now is time to fill with (R134) gas.
I have been told that it's needs more then a
The typical eg Commordore
To run propper
Can anyone one set me straight please
Regards Shane

[Citroënbender]

I'd be surprised if it's not somewhere between 825 and 875g of R134A. One of the auto AC parts suppliers has a lookup chart posted online; it's not always right but mostly so.

(Cooldrive say early cars 710-750g, later ones 1200g.  You'd want to know if you had the larger capacity system to avoid hydraulic lock from overfilling the smaller capacity one...)

Where did the gas go? Have you flushed the old oil out and added new PAG oil to the correct volume? Is the drier new?

If you lost gas through a compressor seal failure, you will have lost a measurable amount of oil, too.

[bonno]

Hi Shane
In addition to the above comments, I suggest that if you are not familiar with the dangers of handling Refrigerant R134a, then I would recommend that you take it to an A/C specialist. Apart from drawing vacuum for the removal of moisture, the other benefit is to determine the integrity of the A/C system (no leaks). Additionally, I am not sure you would be saving that much, based on the cost of recharge kits available on e-bay (.> $100).

[ARQ164 Shane]

thank's guys
I do have a mechanic i just need to give him the fax and figures.
One of my mates from the SA club said that (ER12) would be better and safer.

Has anyone used the ER12 option?
cheers Shane

[Citroënbender]

HR-12?

It will use a much smaller charge weight, the drawback is the gas is more flammable. As your system is yet to prove itself for leakproofing and compressor efficiency, the cheapest might be a good approach.

(That opinion might attract some flak!  )

[ARQ164 Shane]

Hi Citroënbender,
a good friend suggestion-ed  ER12 after he watched a EPA video on it.
in the video  they crashed the car with ER12 in the a/c and add a valve that dump the gas into the cabin
and it did not catch fire. that is why i asked mate

i am not up with the current gas's

reg Shane

[ARQ164 Shane]

I found this page on the EPA website but i thinks it for new cars; Alfa C4 etc.

The development of MVAC systems using lower-GWP refrigerants has been encouraged by MVAC refrigerant requirements in Europe, where the EU Directive on Mobile Air Conditioning (MAC Directive)EXIT mandates transition to a refrigerant with a GWP below 150 by January 1, 2017, and in the United States by the availability of credits under the MY 2017-2025 Light-Duty Greenhouse (LD GHG) Rule  (77 FR 62624, October 15, 2012).

It is important for both consumers and technicians to be aware of these alternative refrigerants, their properties, and proper servicing procedures. A printable brochure is available for new climate-friendly motor vehicle air conditioning refrigerants. EPA's regulatory requirements for the servicing of MVAC systems apply to all three of these refrigerants.

HFO-1234yf (R-1234yf)

GWP of 4
Acceptable, subject to use conditions, for new passenger cars and light-duty trucks only (March 29, 2011, 76 FR 17488; March 26, 2012, 77 FR 17344)
Mildly flammable (ASHRAE A2L), but can be used safely
Models using HFO-1234yf include: Cadillac XTS, Chevrolet Spark EV, BMW i3 and i8, Chrysler 200, Chrysler 300, Dodge Challenger, Dodge Charger, Dodge Dart, Dodge Durango, Jeep Cherokee, Jeep Wrangler, Ram 1500, Fiat 500 and 500L, Alfa Romeo 4C, Honda Fit EV, Tesla Model S, Range Rover, and Range Rover Sport
Required use conditions:
HFO-1234yf MVAC systems must adhere to all of the safety requirements of SAE J639 (adopted 2011), including requirements for a flammable refrigerant warning label, high-pressure compressor cutoff switch and pressure relief devices, and unique fittings. For connections with refrigerant containers for use in professional servicing, use fittings must be consistent with SAE J2844 (revised October 2011).
Manufacturers must conduct Failure Mode and Effect Analysis (FMEA) as provided in SAE J1739 (adopted 2009). Manufacturers must keep the FMEA on file for at least three years from the date of creation.
Carbon Dioxide (CO2, R-744)

[bazzbazz]

Ok, I think someone is getting their A/C Refrigerants mixed up, I have no idea which gas you guys are referring to (R-12 Perhaps? Which is no longer available and banned worldwide) but you may be thinking of Hy-Chill?

In which case you might like to read the following -

http://www.airchill.net.au/auto-motive-air-conditioning-gases.html

https://hychill.com.au/products/minus-30

[ARQ164 Shane]

Thanks Bazzbazz
I am just looking for the best gas to re-gas my 164 that wont leak out through the hoses that were made for R12.

So many people are telling me not to go with R134 because the molecules are smaller than the R12 molecules.
Also some people have said that its not the same PSI in a commodore or the common new cars.

So what is the the PSI to put in for my 164?

I am confused and going a little crazy with the whole issue.

Cheers

[bazzbazz]

Yup, systems made for R-12 can't use R134a, the R134a molecule is much smaller and will seep through the hose materiel and the seals.

Hy-Chill however is replacement for both gasses and has a larger molecular size. When recharging systems you go by "Charge Weight" for each particular car & its system. If your 164 has the standard factory A/C system it will take 370 grams of Hy-Chill.

However if your system has been sitting empty for a long time you will need the following done first at a minimum-

1/ New Dryer fitted
2/ System vacuumed for extended period
3/ Extended leak test

[ARQ164 Shane]

I have been to see my mechanic today to ask him if he can get some Hy-Chill gas he said no but he does have refrigerator gas that he put in refrigeration trucks.
Thankfully if it doesn't work then no cost, but I must confess I'm a little nervous about it.
I looked up what gas it may be and i think it maybe this one.


"Modern refrigerators usually use a refrigerant called HFC-134a (1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane), which does not deplete the ozone layer, instead of Freon. A R-134a is now becoming very uncommon in Europe. Newer refrigerants are being used instead. The main refrigerant now used is R-600a, or isobutane."

Bazzbazz ; I have a new recever dryer and all new green O'ring
cheers

[Citroënbender]

Whoa there!

Commercial fridgie gas is not 1234YF, R134A or directly interchangeable with your original R12.

Can you get in touch with Hychill for a list of suppliers/installers in your area?

[bazzbazz]

What CB said. You can get Hy-chill from Bursons.

As your system is a R-12 system the ONLY gasses available that you can use are R-12 or Hy-Chill Minus 30.

So unless you pay to have your system converted to run on R134a (very expensive) your only option is Hy-Chill  Minus 30.

[bazzbazz]

I honestly don't think you needed a dye to spot that as the leak point!!   

[Citroënbender]

Bazz, you idiot.

That's the AC primer bulb; you squeeze and release it half a dozen times before turning the AC on, to charge the compressor with sufficient oil/refrigerant for suction on the low side.