Author Topic: Is it a GTAM or not?  (Read 20343 times)

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vin sharp

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2018, 09:27:51 AM »
I guess it's possible that they assembled a couple of spare cars ( in case the Italians 'lost" one en route? :) ).
It looks in general to fit the bill, perhaps when they officially logged 25 on the ground here the others if any weren't bothered to be officially plated as GTAM.   In any case dealers just sold them as  Alfetta GTs, no big deal made about it & in fact I've heard of several people who didn't know their car was any different anyone else's.

Paul Newby

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2018, 10:14:56 AM »
All of the Alfetta GTAMs that I have seen have been Alfa Red Ive never seen another colour.

They are all 6/76 Australian Compliance and should have GTAM on the plate, although there may be some exceptions. Alfisti in the past have got excited about these cars because of the GTAM name but they really are of curiosity value only. Now if there were sold with a pukka Autodelta (narrow angle) 2.0 it would be a different story Ive heard rumours that Alfa Romeo Australia naively thought they could race this engine in Australian Group C  :)

Maybe an original GTAM with its Spica engine intact is worth a bit more than a normal GT, but it would be no quicker and harder to tune than a standard GT.

The Holy Grail is the Foley Alfa Group C Alfetta GTAM maybe its still out there? Interestingly we have a club member up here in NSW who has a GTAM delivered by Brian Foley on 24 December 1976. Ive seen the original logbook but not the car in the flesh.
1974 2000 GT Veloce (Le Mans Blue) - Restoration project
1975 Alfetta GT (Periwinkle Blue Metallic) - Group S racer - Sold!
2009 147 Monza 3Dr (Kyalami Black) - Don't ask!
2010 VW Passat R36 Wagon (Biscay Blue) - Daily Driver
2015 VW Golf GTI Performance (Night Blue) - Wife's Runabout

aggie57

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2018, 12:02:23 PM »
I did wonder about that tank filler Scott, but don't know enough about these cars to know how unusual that piece is.  Looks odd for sure - it looks like the under floor tank is still there as well? 
Alister
14 Alfa's since 1977. 
Currently 1973 GTV 2000, a couple of Mercs,  a '14 Beetle (yes, seriously......), 2020 911 C2S (manual!)
Gone......far to many to list

carlo rossi

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2018, 12:41:51 PM »
I think you got a race preped Group C car
not an AM
One better
thats the 100 litre fuel system Bathurst style
current cars
red 83 gtv 2.0


previous cars
Red 76 1.2/1.5 alfasud ti
white 79 alfetta 2000
alfetta 74 1.8
escort Lotus twin cam
bikes
ducati 900 ss 1979
moto morini 3 1/2 sport 1975/6
Moto morini 3 1/2 valentini speciale 77 oh and a deltek rockhopper

Dna Dave

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2018, 12:55:41 PM »
Any signs that it ever had a roll cage?
1984 GTV6 3.0L South Africian (charcoal)
1991 Alfa 75 Potenziata
1985 GTV6 South Africian Rep (white) 3.2L gta motor
1976 Alfetta gt (not your average gt)
2009 Alfa Mito VRA Racecar

Past,

Not that many 😜

Paul Newby

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2018, 03:03:01 PM »
I think you got a race preped Group C car
not an AM
One better
thats the 100 litre fuel system Bathurst style

The fuel tank in Scott's GT is the same as in the GTAM of Cool Jesus. According to his thread it is a 49 litre tank that was fitted to all US market Alfetta GTs.

Check out his thread: http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=8122.0
1974 2000 GT Veloce (Le Mans Blue) - Restoration project
1975 Alfetta GT (Periwinkle Blue Metallic) - Group S racer - Sold!
2009 147 Monza 3Dr (Kyalami Black) - Don't ask!
2010 VW Passat R36 Wagon (Biscay Blue) - Daily Driver
2015 VW Golf GTI Performance (Night Blue) - Wife's Runabout

carlo rossi

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2018, 07:01:25 PM »
Sorry i probably should have elaborated yes Paul you are correct
but I did read somewhere that some of the group C cars fitted what was to become the v6 tank
n tandem, with the original 45ltr tank and with the tubing
they called this the bathurst 100 ltr tank
the idea being that they were not as fast but didnt have stop as often
current cars
red 83 gtv 2.0


previous cars
Red 76 1.2/1.5 alfasud ti
white 79 alfetta 2000
alfetta 74 1.8
escort Lotus twin cam
bikes
ducati 900 ss 1979
moto morini 3 1/2 sport 1975/6
Moto morini 3 1/2 valentini speciale 77 oh and a deltek rockhopper

Cool Jesus

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2018, 07:28:12 PM »
Looks like Carlo has shed some light on this Alfetta with the second tank. It may not be a GTAm, but it could well be a race prep'd Alfetta after the '76 Bathurst 1000. Dig deeper mate, I'd start looking at entered vehicles in '77, '78 and see if you can match a chassis. Though I think the Alfettas run was short lived, the teams had better results with the previous 105s.

I can definitely say that My Alfetta doesn't have the lower tank. The hole through the rear pan is blocked off with a metal panel. The 2.0L Alfettas came in almost straight after the race, only they didn't want to miss the boat, so to speak, at the possibility of the promising results being achieved with the 1.8 (or was it 1.6) Alfetta to add some extra HP and being able to qualify with a 2.0, so they rushed through the 25 Alfettas for homologation. The actual 2.0L (Aus Carb engines) were due for delivery after the '76 Bathurst.

Have you sent an email off to Alfa Historical? That may shed some light on when it was exported, engine type, etc? Although the compliance is 6/76. Maybe the SPICA powerplant was completely removed for a worked carb version? Very curious. I'll check my file and see if there may be a better tell tale on whether or not its the SPICA version.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 07:33:12 PM by Cool Jesus »
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2018, 07:48:49 PM »
Just had a closer look at your photos Scott. The valve cover is definitely not off a SPICA engine, they had these plastic holders riveted on each side near the front for heating up air intake. But valve covers were interchangeable. The exhaust manifold looks performance oriented, an easy add on for SPICA. I can't tell off the bat, but SPICAS had a specific water pump to allow for the SPICA pump. There was also a cogged gear on the crank to run that pump which I believe was behind the harmonic. If these arent there, then the engine is definitely either an AUS spec 2.0L or a refit (ie remove the SPICA for a full carb engine). Keep in mind that Alfa closely guarded the secrets of the SPICA, so absolutely no one could play around with them. They feared losing their US export market with emissions and as a guarantee that divulge zero info on the SPICA. So much so, that any suspected issue required the whole unit be sent to Alfa for assessment and rectification (if req'd). The end result was the cheaper option of swapping it out for carbs.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Scott Farquharson

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2018, 02:21:07 PM »
Hi all,

Thanks for the great feedback and insights. I absolutely understand there's no "premium" for the car, it's more about just understanding this interesting (but flawed) piece of Alfa history, I think the 25 homologation specials do have a interesting place in Alfa Australia motorsport history.

The fuel tank is the standard AM/USA tank, however it's the extra tank splitter that is interesting - there's no lower tank fitted, but it looks like it's had one. 

The engine is definitely not a SPICA, the prior owner swears it originally had a spica engine but it was swapped out in it's entirety, the car however has all the ancillary spica related stuff such as the cold start cable, fuel pump, fuel return line, fuel pres reg mount etc 

I was also thinking it could have been an extra, ie they built 26 or 27 just in case, but asked for 25 compliance plates and attached the plates to the first 25, then std GT plates to the spares.  Given the urgency of getting them here it's not unreasonable to think they brought an extra.  Its a theory.

Another item of interest (I'll post a picture) is that its fitted with an old (period) single mount race harness along with the standard seat belt on the drivers side. Now, not trying to fuel the "its an old Group C car...fire) it's just another interesting feature that may help identify it.

Again, thanks for the input.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 02:56:51 PM by Scott Farquharson »
Scott Farquharson
Group A Dulux Alfetta GTV6
Group S Alfetta GTV
Alfetta GT (GTAM?)

Scott Farquharson

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2018, 02:58:40 PM »
The Beninca Alfetta GTAM was written off against the old Dunlop bridge at Sandown as I recall, then stripped of parts & shell scrapped.
Somewhere I have a period magazine article on the Wherret Alfetta sports sedan & I think it says built from a near new ( executive's) car from Alfa's Sydney headquarters, no mention F.I. model.
With the sole exception of the single Autodelta built actual race car, all the others were landed just stock road cars assembled with whatever bits needed to use a 2.0 capacity engine for our racing. I suspect the fuel tank between the shock towers was just the regular US road version that had all the appropriate fuel return & vent line outlets to match the Spica injection; - no "big race tank for better weight distribution" special parts, just ordinary US emission & crash regs stuff because it fitted the job off the shelf.

Was that the Frank Porter car from Bathurst 76/77?  Did they convert this to a "GTV" after 77? Or did they run a new 2L GTV?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 04:06:15 PM by Scott Farquharson »
Scott Farquharson
Group A Dulux Alfetta GTV6
Group S Alfetta GTV
Alfetta GT (GTAM?)

Cool Jesus

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2018, 03:18:05 PM »
Hi all,

Thanks for the great feedback and insights. I absolutely understand there's no "premium" for the car, it's more about just understanding this interesting (but flawed) piece of Alfa history, I think the 25 homologation specials do have a interesting place in Alfa Australia motorsport history.

The fuel tank is the standard AM/USA tank, however it's the extra tank splitter that is interesting - there's no lower tank fitted, but it looks like it's had one. 

The engine is definitely not a SPICA, the prior owner swears it originally had a spica engine but it was swapped out in it's entirety, the car however has all the ancillary spica related stuff such as the cold start cable, fuel pump, fuel return line, fuel pres reg mount etc 

I was also thinking it could have been an extra, ie they built 26 or 27 just in case, but asked for 25 compliance plates and attached the plates to the first 25, then std GT plates to the spares.  Given the urgency of getting them here it's not unreasonable to think they brought an extra.  Its a theory.

Another item of interest (I'll post a picture) is that its fitted with an old (period) single mount race harness along with the standard seat belt on the drivers side. Now, not trying to fuel the "its an old Group C car...fire) it's just another interesting feature that may help identify it.

Again, thanks for the input.

OK Scott, had a look at my research files. Good news or bad news?
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Scott Farquharson

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2018, 03:25:05 PM »
Hi all,

Thanks for the great feedback and insights. I absolutely understand there's no "premium" for the car, it's more about just understanding this interesting (but flawed) piece of Alfa history, I think the 25 homologation specials do have a interesting place in Alfa Australia motorsport history.

The fuel tank is the standard AM/USA tank, however it's the extra tank splitter that is interesting - there's no lower tank fitted, but it looks like it's had one. 

The engine is definitely not a SPICA, the prior owner swears it originally had a spica engine but it was swapped out in it's entirety, the car however has all the ancillary spica related stuff such as the cold start cable, fuel pump, fuel return line, fuel pres reg mount etc 

I was also thinking it could have been an extra, ie they built 26 or 27 just in case, but asked for 25 compliance plates and attached the plates to the first 25, then std GT plates to the spares.  Given the urgency of getting them here it's not unreasonable to think they brought an extra.  Its a theory.

Another item of interest (I'll post a picture) is that its fitted with an old (period) single mount race harness along with the standard seat belt on the drivers side. Now, not trying to fuel the "its an old Group C car...fire) it's just another interesting feature that may help identify it.

Again, thanks for the input.

OK Scott, had a look at my research files. Good news or bad news?

There's no bad news...

Scott Farquharson
Group A Dulux Alfetta GTV6
Group S Alfetta GTV
Alfetta GT (GTAM?)

Cool Jesus

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2018, 03:43:59 PM »
Yes there is, the bad news is your missing your SPICA engine! Even worse, you don't have the GTAm stamped on your plate, damn....

I have just added your find to my GTAm list mate. Congrats, you found one. I'm confident enough to say your the 5th GTAm I've now come across that hasn't disappeared. So, as Vin mentioned, they did missout on the special GTAm stamp on some. Not that I want to absolutely blow your mind, however your chassis is the next consecutive number from the alleged AUTODELTA Alfetta (I'm yet to confirm its AUTODELTA authenticity) I have on my list !!!

Dig deeper mate, I think you may have something. Get a hold of rego plate details and do a search with motor transport for all historical data. Its only a few bucks to get some valuable research info. Definately send off an email to Alfa Historical, Marco's email is on the forum somewhere. Info from him will also add to authenticity.

Arghhh, so happy for you mate, but disappointed that I didn't find it first.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: Is it a GTAM or not?
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2018, 03:49:53 PM »
Wouldn't hurt to pop into Bathurst museum one day to check out the race line ups for 76 and a year or 2 after.
CAMS my be able to assist with log book (if it was). If its not an ex Bathurst Group C, it would certainly have been raced with the extra tank hook up, extractors and now harness anchor points. Its also safe to say that all 25 imported Alfetta GTAms were Alfa Red too.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS