Author Topic: Project 164 - lets see how this goes  (Read 13429 times)

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shane wescott

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Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« on: September 03, 2017, 08:27:21 AM »
Hi Alfa Team

This will be a place to put up my photos and track how I go getting this 164 back on the road. Hoping this can be done with a minimum of additional investment - although the car was a bargain at $400 -  too cheap to say no :-)

Generally its in pretty good nick - as I said to my Son when we finally put it made it back to the factory - there's a lot of stuff that works :-)


Some pictures to start off with.
Current Cars:

1991 White 164

Previous Cars:
86 White GTV6 Zender Body Kit
90 Red 75 TS
98 Blue GTV 2.0
85 Red 33 1.5 TI
85 Red 33 1.7 Carby
83 Silver 33 1.5 GCL
70 Blue Berlina 1750
70 White Berlina 1750

70 White Berlina 1750 (my first)

Current Bikes:

2002 Yellow Ducati ST2 944

shane wescott

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 08:45:26 AM »
OK.

So a list of issues to start off with:

1. POWER STEERING NOT WORKING. Not sure if you have EVER tried to move or turn one of these beasts with now power steering. Let's just say it is an excellent bicep workout. I remember the GTV6 was a bit of a challenge in tight spaces parking, but bloody hell, all the weihgt of the engine and transaxle on the front wheels was tough. - Note to self - must pump up front tyres - probably help a bit :-)

As is the way when you buy a cheap car, the lady of the house said - hey this fell off when we moved the car.

It looks like a straight bracket, probably 100mm by 25mm, three holes probably 12mm diameter - i'll post a picture - prize for the person who can tell me exactly where it goes :-)

The story around the power steering was sketchy, it was leaking, someone tried to fix it, it not put togther properly.

i can confirm it does leak, the car needs to go up so I can see what needs to be done.

2. The bonnet gas struts are crap - simple stuff to fix - seem to be available or I go to my Mate in Coburg.

3. Engine clean and going over to cure rough reving. It idles o.k. as it goes through the revs though it is rough in the mid range, and then o.k. as you get past approx 4000. Will attach a photo, yes the outside looks good but the engine bay is a mess.

Now if I can get these three things sorted, it makes it closer to getting back on the road, and the next step would be a check over by an expert with a view to getting a road worthy :-)

SO Question: When I had the GTV6 I found a guide to sorting the fuel injection system here (  http://www.hiperformancestore.com/ljetronic.htm  ), it was excellent and I followed it to the tee and my GTV6 never ran better, and since that time never missed a beat.

Is there a similar guide for the 164?

Thanks in advance for your help Team - looking forward to catching up at a run and driving an Alfa again :-)
Current Cars:

1991 White 164

Previous Cars:
86 White GTV6 Zender Body Kit
90 Red 75 TS
98 Blue GTV 2.0
85 Red 33 1.5 TI
85 Red 33 1.7 Carby
83 Silver 33 1.5 GCL
70 Blue Berlina 1750
70 White Berlina 1750

70 White Berlina 1750 (my first)

Current Bikes:

2002 Yellow Ducati ST2 944

bonno

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 08:46:40 AM »
Hi Shane
Congratulations on the purchase of the Alfa Romeo 164 and you definitely did pick up a bargain. I can envisage numerous maintenance tasks that need to be undertaken, such as brakes, engine, fuel and electrical systems, together with all the associated ancillaries such as coolant hoses, brake lines, fuel tank/lines, wiring just to name a few. I have one simple tip and that is to develop a simple plan for managing these tasks. Best of luck and keep us posted on progress from time to time and when/if required advice/help needed just raise thru this post.
Cheers
bonno
now
83 Alfetta GTV
05 156 JTS manual
past
00 156 selespeed
72 1750 GTV

shane wescott

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 09:16:30 AM »
Thanks Bonno

keep it simple is one of my main principles.

I've had a number of Alfa "Summer Projects" - none of them being terribly successful, but all being fun. I've done one Ducati rebuild of a 1982 Pantah - that was successful so I'm learning as I get older :-)

Really looking forward to getting into this one :-)

Thanks for the offer of advice I will defo be using that.

Catch ya

Shane
Current Cars:

1991 White 164

Previous Cars:
86 White GTV6 Zender Body Kit
90 Red 75 TS
98 Blue GTV 2.0
85 Red 33 1.5 TI
85 Red 33 1.7 Carby
83 Silver 33 1.5 GCL
70 Blue Berlina 1750
70 White Berlina 1750

70 White Berlina 1750 (my first)

Current Bikes:

2002 Yellow Ducati ST2 944

bonno

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 09:44:46 AM »
Hi Shane
If you have difficulty sourcing parts locally, here is a website that you can use to source parts and info for your 164 (open up each of the sub categories to access). The guide you provided in your earlier thread involving GTV6  fuel injection system could be used as a guide/baseline, as one specific to the 164 V6 might not be available.
http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/alfa+romeo,1991,164,3.0l+v6,1001114
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 10:05:46 AM by bonno »
now
83 Alfetta GTV
05 156 JTS manual
past
00 156 selespeed
72 1750 GTV

VeeSix

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Alfa Romeo 164
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 09:58:37 AM »
Hello Shane
Great to see a 164 project arise on here, one of the Alfa Romeo models I really have a passion for, Andrews was the last project on here and that was fantastic to follow, he really followed it thru and after going with some automatics at first really came thru with a beautiful QV in the end after at first stating he disliked the QV kit, I think as a general summary the automatics are best for heavy traffic city runs and the manuals for those twisty mountain or fast interstate runs
With no interior shots and seeing the hole for the electric aerial on the left rear panel I would guess it is a series one, not the revised known as series 1.5, does it have the really large electric window buttons?
After all my years with this model I can say one of the most important things you can do when first purchasing a 164 is too remove the fuel pump and replace the rubber hose, this can cure a lot of hard starting, rough idling/running issues, just remove a black panel on the boot floor, disconnect some wires/hoses and turn securing ring, about a ten minute job once you have done it a few times
I will also warn you that the two most difficult jobs on this model is removing the power steering rack and the starter motor
The 164 register is a great site with a lot of information
If you need anything I stock all parts for this great model just contact me at david.tracey75@bigpond.com
Waiting for the bracket photo  :)
1985 Alfa Romeo GTV6 V6 2.5 12V 
1986 Alfa Romeo 90 V6 2.5 12V
1990 Alfa Romeo 75 V6 3.0 12V Potenziata
1990 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V Zender
1991 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV
1992 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV

shane wescott

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 02:06:58 PM »
Thanks for the link Bonno.

Thanks for the tip VeeSix and that is one NICE 164.

Funny story, back in the early 90's I had a Mentor and was learning all about Personal Development. He pushed me to set a goal so the goal I set was to own a brand new Alfa 164. I used to stop every morning on the way to work, and visualise what it was going to be like to drive it out of the showroom.

The dealer on peel street near the haymarket roundabout was the one I visited.

I stopped there every work day for about 18 months. I had a written out detailed story of picking up the car.

Well that was in about 1993, and 6 years later I was able to drive my brand new Alfa out of the showroom, but instead of a 164 it was a 1999 GTV :-)

The scary part was I randomly grabbed a cd to play for my first drive in the GTV, popped it in when I picked it up, randomly skipped to a track and played it loud.

I had one of those DejaVu moments and realised that in my story about the 164, I had written that I was playing Long Way To The Top by AC/DC as I drove it away - True Story.  Never underestimate the power of the Sub Conscious mind :-)

So I never was able to have a 164 until now :-)

Looking forward to getting it on the road and cranking out AC/DC again:-)
Current Cars:

1991 White 164

Previous Cars:
86 White GTV6 Zender Body Kit
90 Red 75 TS
98 Blue GTV 2.0
85 Red 33 1.5 TI
85 Red 33 1.7 Carby
83 Silver 33 1.5 GCL
70 Blue Berlina 1750
70 White Berlina 1750

70 White Berlina 1750 (my first)

Current Bikes:

2002 Yellow Ducati ST2 944

shane wescott

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2017, 02:17:50 PM »
Thanks  VeeSix "I will also warn you that the two most difficult jobs on this model is removing the power steering rack and the starter motor" .

I dont think I'm getting out of the power steering job but the starter motor is o.k. :-)
Current Cars:

1991 White 164

Previous Cars:
86 White GTV6 Zender Body Kit
90 Red 75 TS
98 Blue GTV 2.0
85 Red 33 1.5 TI
85 Red 33 1.7 Carby
83 Silver 33 1.5 GCL
70 Blue Berlina 1750
70 White Berlina 1750

70 White Berlina 1750 (my first)

Current Bikes:

2002 Yellow Ducati ST2 944

V AR 164

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2017, 05:00:46 PM »
Looks good Shane, and what a bargain at $400! And what an awesome story as well, I remember the first song I played in my 164:  Stuck in the middle with you - Stealers Wheel. I usually crank that up when going for a quick backroad blast :)

I can almost guarantee your rough running is either your spark plugs or the accordion intake tube that goes from the air box to the throttle body. These generally deteriorate and crack over time.

I have seen in the engine pic you posted that there is duct tape around the tube which is possibly covering up a crack in the tube. As you know it would allow unmetered air into the motor causing rough running. Best to source another one in good condition, most likely David would have one?

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Andrew.
Present:
-1992 164Q
-1993 Hilux Surf

Past:
-2006 159 2.4 Ti

shane wescott

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2017, 06:22:06 PM »
It's awesome how music has the ability to take us back to a point in time :-)

The guy I bought it from did say something about new sparkys, so thats a check item and yes I have gone searching for a new inlet tube.

I bought an air intake kit from the USA for my GTV6 so not sure if the same thing is available for the 164.

Thanks for your help Andy :-)
Current Cars:

1991 White 164

Previous Cars:
86 White GTV6 Zender Body Kit
90 Red 75 TS
98 Blue GTV 2.0
85 Red 33 1.5 TI
85 Red 33 1.7 Carby
83 Silver 33 1.5 GCL
70 Blue Berlina 1750
70 White Berlina 1750

70 White Berlina 1750 (my first)

Current Bikes:

2002 Yellow Ducati ST2 944

CitroŽnbender

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 10:00:48 PM »
Does the 4HP18 often get TLC in these models?

It seems if you have a Saab or Peugeot/CitroŽn with this tranny, that "about now" the governor seals are dying of old age/heat. 

shane wescott

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 10:19:18 PM »
OK So here we go people.

What is this bracket from the 164 - i suspect "somewhere" associated with the power steering/rack, but would be good to know where.

Yes there is a prize :-)
Current Cars:

1991 White 164

Previous Cars:
86 White GTV6 Zender Body Kit
90 Red 75 TS
98 Blue GTV 2.0
85 Red 33 1.5 TI
85 Red 33 1.7 Carby
83 Silver 33 1.5 GCL
70 Blue Berlina 1750
70 White Berlina 1750

70 White Berlina 1750 (my first)

Current Bikes:

2002 Yellow Ducati ST2 944

shane wescott

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 10:22:23 PM »
Wifey wanted to check for something left at the factory.
 
Of course I said yes, gave her the tour of the 164, generally pleasant :-)

pulled out the two bonnet struts so will get my local strut dude to fix them.

One thing knocked off the list :-)

Anyone know anything about these wheels?  Standard or not, some sort of after market ??

Thanks in Advance

Shane
Current Cars:

1991 White 164

Previous Cars:
86 White GTV6 Zender Body Kit
90 Red 75 TS
98 Blue GTV 2.0
85 Red 33 1.5 TI
85 Red 33 1.7 Carby
83 Silver 33 1.5 GCL
70 Blue Berlina 1750
70 White Berlina 1750

70 White Berlina 1750 (my first)

Current Bikes:

2002 Yellow Ducati ST2 944

V AR 164

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Re: Project 164 - lets see how this goes
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2017, 10:31:15 PM »
All my auto gearboxes in all 3 of my auto 164's run perfectly with no issues at all. They don't leak any fluid and still change gears very smoothly.

I still think I'm running 20 year old tranny fluid in my daily and it's still holding up. Goes to show these gearboxes are pretty bulletproof. (Now that I think of it, I should really change the fluid  ::) )

I have no idea where that bracket is from, your guess is as good as mine as I have never seen it before.

Also those wheels are not standard. A quick internet search shows that the brand Fondmetal is an Italian brand. http://www.fondmetal.com/en/

Andrew.
Present:
-1992 164Q
-1993 Hilux Surf

Past:
-2006 159 2.4 Ti

VeeSix

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Alfa Romeo 164 standard factory wheels
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2017, 11:58:29 AM »
Yes, definantly aftermarket Fondmetal brand wheels, these wheels, photo attached, were the factory standard issue, I have always thought 17 inch wheels best for the looks on the 164 and 16 inch best all rounder.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 12:02:14 PM by VeeSix »
1985 Alfa Romeo GTV6 V6 2.5 12V 
1986 Alfa Romeo 90 V6 2.5 12V
1990 Alfa Romeo 75 V6 3.0 12V Potenziata
1990 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V Zender
1991 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV
1992 Alfa Romeo 164 V6 3.0 12V QV