Author Topic: South African 3 Litre GTV6  (Read 23303 times)

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CitroŽnbender

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2018, 02:28:38 PM »
I'm curious about one cosmetic detail; you have the rear auxiliary reflectors as were mandated in ZA, but none on the front?

GG105

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2018, 06:02:13 PM »
Correct, and Iím going to take them off.

For those who are interested, on the dyno it made 134kw at the wheels, or around 190hp. At a guess, thatís about 220hp at the wheels.
1959 Giulietta Sprint
1969 GT 1300 Junior
1970 Giulia 1300 TI
1975 Ferrari 365 GT4
1990 Mazda MX5
2005 BMW 330Ci
2014 Porsche Turbo

GG105

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2018, 06:04:09 PM »
Sorry, that should be 220hp at the flywheel.
1959 Giulietta Sprint
1969 GT 1300 Junior
1970 Giulia 1300 TI
1975 Ferrari 365 GT4
1990 Mazda MX5
2005 BMW 330Ci
2014 Porsche Turbo

carlo rossi

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2018, 02:11:36 PM »
at dyno day in sydney the old guys told me that the transaxle loses around 50 hp
due to the set up where as the 105 conventional only loses 35 to 40 hp
so that would mean 240hp flywheel
BUT some dynos do an auto correct
i would think a strong standard SA would be around 125-130 hp at the wheels
see below from sheldon macintosh
re's a basic list of the results.  Names have been omitted for confidentiality, just in case someone doesn't want their figures to be known to the world wide web.  I'll be publishing a more comprehensive list in the next Allegerita, complete with naming and shaming.

HP      Nm      Model
66.5      108.6      33 1.5Ti
72.5      97.0      33 1.5Ti
77.0      110.1      33 1.7iE
77.4      109.7      Alfasud 1.7iE
80.5      120.8      Alfetta GT  1.8
81.7      117.3      Spider Duetto
84.3      131.8      GTV 2.0
93.2      147.0      Giulietta 2.0
94.7      127.3      Guilia Super
95.2      132.4      Alfetta 2.0
96.3      140.5      156 2.0
98.7      150.4      916 Spider 2.0
101.6      125.8      Berlina TwinSpark
106.1      162.1      GTV6
107.1      151.6      GTV 2.0
110.9      151.8      Alfetta GTV Gp S
118.7      170.8      75 TwinSpark
127.7      168.5      75 2.5
128.3      183.1      GTV6
131.8      174.8      Alfetta GTV Gp S
132.0      178.4      90 Super 3.0
136.4      155.9      Alfetta GTV Gp S
136.9      162.8      75 3.0
138.5      276.5      Falcon 4.0  EL maybe? POS definitely
142.5      184.1      75 3.0
148.2      190.8      Lotus Elise
148.3      171.8      Alfetta GTV 2.0 Sports Sedan
149.1      239.6      Lancia Delta Integrale
163.2      212.9      GTV6 Tarmac Rally Car
179.2      233.3      Spider 24V V6
181.2      243.7      159 3.2 Ti
198.3      237.7      Alfa GT
221.9      287.9      BMW 330Ci Supercharged (interrupted run)
240.3      306.0      75 3.0 24V
257.7      343.2      Audi B6S4
262.4      337.0      BMW 330 Convertible
298.5      362.5      Porsche 997
393.0      418.4      BMW M5
current cars
red 83 gtv 2.0


previous cars
Red 76 1.2/1.5 alfasud ti
white 79 alfetta 2000
alfetta 74 1.8
escort Lotus twin cam
bikes
ducati 900 ss 1979
moto morini 3 1/2 sport 1975/6
Moto morini 3 1/2 valentini speciale 77 oh and a deltek rockhopper

GG105

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2018, 08:23:46 PM »
Carlo, not sure what your post means. Are you suggesting the figures Iíve quoted arenít correct or that theyíve been made up?
1959 Giulietta Sprint
1969 GT 1300 Junior
1970 Giulia 1300 TI
1975 Ferrari 365 GT4
1990 Mazda MX5
2005 BMW 330Ci
2014 Porsche Turbo

carlo rossi

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2018, 09:34:38 AM »
quite the opposite I think you underrate the loses from transaxle
it was a well not so well known secret that they did not disclose the
real power figures for the race preped cars that were amongst the 200 or so made for racing
like when ford told everyone that the phase 3 had 224kw when it was closer to 300kw
why? so it caught the opposition of guard
these cars as you well know was for primarily racing and as I understand there was 50 very special ones in there
YOu my friend I think has scored one of the 50
I want it so bad
ps yes the 50hp lose is correct so by those figures you are up around 240hp which again I think is correct for the 50
the figures for the 75 3.0 on the list  is around 170 to 200
so spot on ! congrats
current cars
red 83 gtv 2.0


previous cars
Red 76 1.2/1.5 alfasud ti
white 79 alfetta 2000
alfetta 74 1.8
escort Lotus twin cam
bikes
ducati 900 ss 1979
moto morini 3 1/2 sport 1975/6
Moto morini 3 1/2 valentini speciale 77 oh and a deltek rockhopper

GG105

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2018, 08:55:47 PM »
Understand Carlo. I was probably a bit cautious on flywheel horsepower.

As Iíve come to expect with this car, nothing comes easily or goes according to plan. The first 24 hours on bringing it home went well. The next not so.

The long and short of it is, it went back to Corse Automotive on Brad The Towieís truck. What I had thought initially was low fuel, wasnít. It became clear it was electrical, hence the ride back on the truck. It emerges that despite 500klms of sorting, the problem is periods of idling.

We discovered that because we had to put a smaller pulley on the alternator to fit the power steer. This meant that with the air on, noting my earlier comment about a step up motor, at idle  the alternator wasnít producing enough voltage to keep it running, this resulted in the wiring at the fuse box overheating. A fire was next.

The fix is to put a microswitch in the circuit so the a/c doesnít work at idle, reducing the pulley size and getting more alternator power. We also discovered even more bodges at the back of the fuse box which have been corrected.

This thing has fought us all the way, but weíre nearly there, I think :P
1959 Giulietta Sprint
1969 GT 1300 Junior
1970 Giulia 1300 TI
1975 Ferrari 365 GT4
1990 Mazda MX5
2005 BMW 330Ci
2014 Porsche Turbo

GG105

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2018, 01:29:28 PM »
A couple of post (almost) completion.

1959 Giulietta Sprint
1969 GT 1300 Junior
1970 Giulia 1300 TI
1975 Ferrari 365 GT4
1990 Mazda MX5
2005 BMW 330Ci
2014 Porsche Turbo

julianB

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2018, 10:29:09 PM »
Stunning. A true collectable and if you ever want to sell it, let me know!
85 GTV6 Zender "Juliet"
Ex GpA 2.5 screamer, soon to be GTA..
17" Zender Milanos
RSR kit
PACE knuckle risers
Restored tan pin stripe interior with Recaros
330mm Brembo conversion underway

'68 step nose Junior "Romeo"
bare metal project

Craig_m67

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2018, 03:02:34 AM »
Thatís a stunning v6 !!



HP           Nm        Model

Ď 81.7      117.3      Spider Duetto
101.6      125.8      Berlina TwinSpark
118.7      170.8      75 TwinSpark


138.5      276.5      Falcon 4.0  EL maybe? POS definitely



First couple interest me.. what were the mechanical or setup differences between the two TS??
The last one just made me laugh 😂, cheers !!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 03:11:15 AM by Craig_m67 »
'66 Duetto (lacework of doom)
'73 1600 GT Junior (ensconced)
'03 156 1.9JTD Sportwagon (daily driver)

carlo rossi

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2018, 10:02:31 AM »
the torque figure in ythe second twin spark would indicate its closer to 2.5 in capacity
maybe its bored out and different chips
current cars
red 83 gtv 2.0


previous cars
Red 76 1.2/1.5 alfasud ti
white 79 alfetta 2000
alfetta 74 1.8
escort Lotus twin cam
bikes
ducati 900 ss 1979
moto morini 3 1/2 sport 1975/6
Moto morini 3 1/2 valentini speciale 77 oh and a deltek rockhopper

GG105

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2019, 10:45:17 AM »
In this thread I have detailed a portion of the work involved in what ended up being a comprehensive rebuild of this car.

As a cautionary tale of the perils of buying a car sight unseen, I thought I would reproduce the ad for my car that ran in Car and Classic UK:

ALFA ROMEO GTV6 3.0 HOMOLOGATION:
These GTV6 3.0 cars were exclusive to ALFA ROMEO South Africa (ARSA) and by all accounts ONLY 206 UNITS were built during the period 1983 to 1985.

Billed as the most powerful production sports car ever built by Alfa Romeo, the car was the result of a co-operative programme run by Alfa South Africa, assisted by Autodelta, the Italian parent company's specialist competition arm, and Alfa's Arese head office.

They took a standard 2.5 and increased the bore complete with special pistons, camshafts, and six Delortto carburettors to produce a car that trounced all-comers including the super fast BMW 535i in the South African Group One Touring Cars Championship from inception. The sound that she emits ranges from a throaty growl at low speeds to a mind blowing howling wail at full taps. More detailed information available on request.

The car is finished in stunning Arctic White bodywork which is thankfully rust-free. The standard body package includes the unique factory special NACA bonnet, front airdam and polite side-skirts and four split-rim Compomotive road wheels.

[color=blue]The interior has also stood up extremely well to age and has no dashboard cracks or sun-fading to the upholstery. The car has a unique ex-factory interior with black Velour headlining and black Velour seats with a thin off-Grey pin-stripe and black carpeting.

This completed the package available off the showroom floor! Unusually, she still has all of her books - a Handbook (for the 2.5) and Service Log. The spare wheel was always a standard 2.5 alloy rim.

Needless to say this limited production run of only 206 units makes these cars extremely rare, and more difficult than hens teeth to find. This is a late 2004 production unit, number 172/206, which came with the long-dashboard.


[b]This car has covered some 119,000 klms from new, bought by her second owner a couple of years back, after she had been in storage for sbout 12 years as far as I can ascertain. The car was been extensively recommissioned and only driven some 2,000 kilometres since all of the work was completed.

The work carried out included; new radiator, water pump, oil pump, pistons, rings & bearings, all hoses, clutch, stainless exhuast from the manifolds as well as having new rubber bushes (polypropelene) for the suspension and new dampers. The gearbox was also overhauled and is noise free and changes smoothly without syncro problems or clatter while idling in neutral (most of them do). The brakes received new discs, new pads and overhauled calipers plus new inboard handbrake pads to the rear. The Compomotive rims were also refurbished and fitted with new tyres all around. The car also had all filters, HT-Leads and plugs also replaced. All that is still required mechanically is a coastal tune-up for sea-level performance from the 6-carbs before shipping.[/b]


Prior to going to her new owner her slightly cracked front windscreen will be replaced along with new rubber seal and new rubbers and weatherseals to the doors and rear hatch.

The advertised price includes all export documentation and single container shipping to London Gateway Port in England as well as provision for a Buyer's retained amount for the equivalent amount required for UK Customs Import Duty.


I didn't buy the car from this vendor, I bought it in Australia and hadn't seen this ad when I bought the car. When you read the ad, particularly the part I have highlighted in bold, it reads like its another car. There were no books, as for a coastal tune-up, the engine was shot, there was no stainless exhaust, it was a mild steel mess, the wheels weren't refurbished, the brakes didn't work effectively, dampers were stuffed, tyres were old and so on. As for rust free, no mention of the rust in the doors and rear valence. Even the engine number is wrong.

I've not seen such blatant misrepresentation on this scale before. Its not always like this, I have bought five cars in from the US and all were as described, nevertheless we do need to be careful, vendors like this are out there.

1959 Giulietta Sprint
1969 GT 1300 Junior
1970 Giulia 1300 TI
1975 Ferrari 365 GT4
1990 Mazda MX5
2005 BMW 330Ci
2014 Porsche Turbo

Henry Goodman

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2019, 08:39:37 PM »
Hi John and congratulations on the car. Its obviously been a test of resilience. I'm interested in the numbering system of these limited edition models. Is there a plate or plaque on the car which identifies this as being #172 of the total production run? How can you tell?
Cheers.
Henry.

poohbah

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2019, 11:22:41 AM »
As an aside, I met a lovely South African chap (mobile mechanic) who lives down the road from me a little while ago who worked for AR assembling Alfas in SA. I introduced myself when I spotted a mint rosso 155 V6 fitted with the Evoluzione bodykit and a pristine early 80s Giulietta sedan in his driveway. He told me had owned one of the 3.0L GTV6s for many years but sold it in the UK before moving to Oz. Apparently he still has molds for the 3.0L bonnets, front spoilers etc.

He's the only other Alfa owner in my suburb that I'm aware of, so it was pretty incredible that he has the only 155 I've seen in the flesh in Oz, and the only rust free 80s Giulietta I've seen in 20 years!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 11:25:51 AM by poohbah »
Now:    2002 156 GTA
            1999 156 V6 Q-auto
            1981 GTV
Before: 2001 156 V6 (sadly cremated)

GG105

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Re: South African 3 Litre GTV6
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2019, 06:00:03 AM »
Good question Henry. Apart from the obvious difference that the heads are unique, the only formal engine identifier is a stamped number on the crank pulley.

I donít know if there are any factory records of engine and chassis nos. Dyno Dave has talked  to Dawie de Villiers, he may know. Other than having the orginal books, as far as I know, this is the only way to confirm authenticity.

I donít know how many engine kits were produced, but I do know that some of the last cars had fuel injection fitted and standard GTV6 wheels, as they had run out of Compomotive sets.

John
1959 Giulietta Sprint
1969 GT 1300 Junior
1970 Giulia 1300 TI
1975 Ferrari 365 GT4
1990 Mazda MX5
2005 BMW 330Ci
2014 Porsche Turbo