Author Topic: 156 Alternator  (Read 4458 times)

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alfagtv152

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156 Alternator
« on: March 15, 2016, 09:32:50 PM »
 I was out yesterday running around with lots of stops and all of a sudden the car wouldn't turn over, battery seems flat!.
I know the battery is not old,there is no charge light at all now so I managed to push start it,which is tricky in selespeed!.
Started for home and lots of warnings come up on the info center and in the end it said do not proceed after a couple of episodes of it stopping at a junction and refusing to proceed,nothing but sitting idleing.
Got my wife to bring the battery out of the 166 and drove home on that ok.
What a shit system,the charging stops and the warning light stops with it!,ending up in the Dark!.
Changed over the alternator today and now all good, I brought it out the bottom after unbolting all the mounts,the exhaust pipe and removing the rear mount bracket,plus some levering the engine forward.
These front wheel drive things are bloody hard to work on after a lifetime of transaxle cars previously!.
SEE YOUR BACKSIDE TRACKSIDE.White 156 TI JTS,Silly Speed.

colcol

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2016, 08:29:46 PM »
Interesting story, been looking at mine, trying to workout when the alternator fails, if i will be up for long service leave from work to change it.
How many kilometres has your 156 done and if you got a new alternator or did you get a changeover or a good second hand one, Colin.
1974 VW Passat [ist car] 1984 Alfa 33TI [daily driver] 2002 Alfa 156 JTS [daily driver]

alfagtv152

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2016, 10:56:23 PM »
Hi Colin,
I bought a complete motor and transmission that had done a genuine 68K and have been pinching all the bits I need from there as they are really like new.
The KM's is another story on another post but I think it is around 185K.
I read stories about doing it from the top where you would take off the air intake box attached to the manifold,remove the injectors and all attached valves and wires fule rail etc as I did to change the injectors but unless I needed to change the injectors I wouldn't do it that way, it was a killer for my bad back!!!. I did it through the bottom in a day,just needed some one to pull on a piece fo pipe to move the engine forward while removing and re-entering the alt through the hole between the engine and sub frame,not a nice job but better for my back than from the top.
If need any advise when you have to do it give me a shout. I just sourced another voltage regulator from Latvia with slow delivery for $44.34.
Cheers
Andrew
SEE YOUR BACKSIDE TRACKSIDE.White 156 TI JTS,Silly Speed.

bazzbazz

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2016, 11:37:12 PM »
I agree with Andrew, it is the EASIEST way I have found to replace the alternator. (I too have back problems)  :o

Here is the method step by step.

1/ Disconnect the exhaust at the rear of the flexi pipe (2 bolts) and undo the mount bracket
2/ Undo the UPPER Engine Mount (either end)
3/ Support engine with large solid trolley jack
4/ Remove the single centre bolt from lower rear mount
5/ Remove the 3 bolts from the drivers side mount where it bolts onto the frame
6/ Loosen the gearbox mount centre bolt a few turns

You can now "slide" the engine forward easily as it pivots on the gearbox mount and rides the trolley jack.
You can use a pry bar but I find using a small bottle jack so much more easier and precise.
This gives the room to get at the alternator and remove it through the gap. Just make sure you don't get too greedy for room and jack the A/C compressor or piping into the radiator. (It's been done!)

I personally add a further step for safety by loosely supporting the engine with sturdy rope and wooden beam across the top of the engine bay, just in case.  ;)

Check Six

Baz


« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 11:43:56 PM by bazzbazz »
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zcard

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2020, 02:33:27 PM »
You can now "slide" the engine forward easily as it pivots on the gearbox mount and rides the trolley jack.
You can use a pry bar but I find using a small bottle jack so much more easier and precise.
This gives the room to get at the alternator and remove it through the gap. Just make sure you don't get too greedy for room and jack the A/C compressor or piping into the radiator. (It's been done!)


Hi Bazz, can you provide greater details as to using a pry bar or bottle jack to "slide" the engine forward. I've completed the previous tasks and the engine is sitting on a large trolley jack still attached to the gearbox mount.

Cheers,
Zac

bazzbazz

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2020, 04:19:17 PM »
We're not trying to do this on that sloping driveway of yours by chance are we?
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zcard

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2020, 10:24:41 PM »
Obviously not, in the garage.

bazzbazz

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2020, 12:27:40 AM »
Ok, so just checking -

1/ Remove the intermediate section of exhaust
2/ Remove the lower Engine Mount Assembly

This should give you enough room to remove the Alternator, if not, do the additional -

3/ Remove the Upper Engine Mount/Reaction Rod
4/ Loosen the Gearbox Mount Center Bolt SLIGHTLY
5/ Support engine on Trolley Jack and undo the front Engine mount and lower engine slightly

So now the engine is supported by the Gearbox Mount and Trolley Jack. Place a Bottle Jack/Pry Bar/ Large Pipe between firewall and front of engine and gently force the front of the engine towards the radiator, being careful not to drive the AC compressor or its hoses/piping into the radiator.
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Craig_m67

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2020, 10:09:24 PM »
We're not trying to do this on that sloping driveway of yours by chance are we?

Hahahahaha... what kind of idiot would do something like that (it was a clutch, DMF, gearbox, sheesh)
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zcard

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2020, 03:14:56 PM »
Hi,

I've been fiddling with this problem in all my spare time... Even after following all of Bazz's steps, there still seems not to be enough room.

I've removed the radiator fan to allow for a couple more cm in leeway (no success). I've tried removing the drive shaft (no success).

As of now, I'm not sure whether I should remove the whole radiator or remove the sub-frame and take the alternator out through the bottom.....

Any more advice?  :'(
Kind regards,
Zac

cc

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2020, 03:29:46 PM »
the first post in 2016 at the end says to lever the engine forward. I Agree with this as did the same on my red 156 V6.
Be super careful : )

bazzbazz

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2020, 05:48:48 PM »
You ARE trying to take it out through the hole in the bottom made by the removal of the exhaust section and lower engine mount assembly, aren't you?   ???

Your NOT trying to take it out the side through the drivers wheel well arch, are you?   ???

As said above -

Ok, so just checking -

1/ Remove the intermediate section of exhaust
2/ Remove the lower Engine Mount Assembly

This should give you enough room to remove the Alternator, if not, do the additional -


The reason you remove the whole Lower Engine Mount Assembly is to make a big enough hole to get the Alternator out. Sorry if that was unclear.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 05:55:19 PM by bazzbazz »
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zcard

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2020, 12:31:09 PM »
Hi again,

Thank you for the clarification and additional help. Upon installing the alternator, the battery still was not charging. When testing the alternator circuit, specifically the sense wire we found the following:

Voltage drop test
Ignition off: Batt+ to Sense = Battery Voltage, indicating a 12.7V voltage drop.  This is likely acceptable if there were a relay in this circuit.
Ignition on: Batt+ to Sense = 2.7V, indicating a 10V voltage drop.  Not good.  Expecting less than 0.2V voltage drop.
From this test there is clearly a high resistance somewhere in the Sense wiring.  Have cleaned the terminals.  Low battery warning light is working (I assume this is in series in the circuit).  Is there anything else in this circuit?  I assume there is a relay somewhere as there is a difference between the ignition on and off tests.

As a temporary measure, I've bypassed the sense circuit and essentially turned the alternator into a one wire system by tying the sense to the alternator output.  This results in a 0.1V voltage drop in the above tests and a working charging system.

An unexpected side note.  With the bypass in place we were expecting the battery light to be permanently on.  It is off.  This makes sense as the circuit is now open and not measuring a voltage drop greater than x volts triggering the light to illuminate.

My thoughts are possibly a high resistance connection at the wire/lug joint on the sense line, bad cable somewhere else in the circuit, or high resistance for some reason at a relay in this circuit.

Any other thoughts? Kind regards

bonno

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2020, 03:55:05 PM »
Hi Zac
Could it be possible that you have forgotten to reconnect the alternator power wire that runs to the Starter motor terminal?
Cheers
bonno
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bazzbazz

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Re: 156 Alternator
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2020, 04:10:57 PM »
Is it a NEW alternator or a used one from wreckers?
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