Author Topic: Racing options in NSW  (Read 12071 times)

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k76

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Racing options in NSW
« on: May 21, 2008, 05:51:43 PM »
Hi,

I've been thinking about getting an Alfa for a while now. While I thought I'd figured out my plan the thought of racing has started to come up. But what are my options for racing an alfa at a non-serious level here in NSW? And which alfas? A class where you can't modify too much sounds like a sensible starting point.

I love the older alfas, but what about the more modern as 75/33? I've even seen some 156s going for very reasonable prices, a modern starting point would be interesting. Can a 156 -interior +cage +suspension/brakes +chipping/intake/exhaust be raced in any class here in NSW?  Sorry if this sounds a bit stupid, but I've never been to a race here before so I feel a bit lost as to where to start.
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Southern75

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2008, 06:46:33 PM »
Hi,

There are a lot of options particularly for the older cars.
Group S is very popular with the VRA and HSRCA and there is a number of guys who do that.
The VRA are closely aligned with the festival of sports cars with who you race group s cars (mostly 105's and 116 gtv 4's) there are some improved production cars 3b and 3j logged who also race here.

There is also a number of guys who race newer cars and sports sedans who are in the process of putting together a racing program. Currently these guys are racing in state championship sports sedan events and some production car races with some of the 156 gta's and the new diesel alfas (although the latter is big dollars).

There are a few second hand sports sedans kicking around that are going cheap which would be a lot of fun, If you wish to build a car some historic form is probably cheaper, but the elligible cars are becoming harder to find due to the popularity of such racing.

My advice, visit the club talk to some members, visit a festival of sports car day (FoSC) and visit a state championship day run by the NSWRRC (new south wales road racing club) and check out what takes your fancy ... there is a nice 75 race car on ebay at the moment ... check that out!!
Rust, nah that's not rust .... its iron oxide!!!

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John A Pucak

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2008, 09:18:15 PM »
Hi K76, I agree with Matt. If you want to know more, why not come out to Oran Park on the 14th and15th of June for the Festival of Sports Cars.
 Check out the racing Alfa's , and speak to the drivers.
Regards John

dehne

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2008, 10:14:05 PM »
what type of rave car r you after i know a guy that might sell his 79 gtv for the right price it has full custom paint and full decked out apart from cage put if u r not wanting to spend much there is a alfa 90 4 $1000 and with not much effort or cash can be transformed to a quick car i have transformed my 90 from a road car to race car for less than $1000 with a custom paint job (diy) let me know if ur interested in the gtv or 90
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k76

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2008, 10:17:27 AM »
Thanks all. I will try to get to Oran Park in June. What about the sprint events I see on the AROCA NSW site, are they a decent place to start?

I won't be buying a car immediately, I'd like to do some more research first. Not sure how much I'd be looking at spending either. The 75 on ebay looks awesome, but to be honest I think I'm better off starting with something milder.
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Scott Farquharson

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2008, 10:19:39 AM »
Hi k76,

The first thing you need to think about is what kind of "racing" you want to participate in.  I am assuming that you are talking about actual racing (20 odd cars on a grid racing for position) and not Supersprints (cars let onto the track 2 at a time and looking to record the best possible lap time).  If it is racing then you need to look at what categories are available to and what budget you have to play with.  There are three levels of racing you can look at, State (such as Sports Cars, Improved Production etc), National (GT, Sports Sedans, Saloon Cars etc) and Historic (Group N - Historic Touring cars and S - Historic Sports Cars) etc.

The only real options if you want to drive an Alfa would be State and Group N/S Historics although you could run a modern Alfa in the National Australian Production Car Champ but this is a big budget option ($100k+ PA) - the options in the State and Historic categories are as follows:

State Improved/Production Touring Cars / Sports Sedans - (Category 3)
Any Alfa sedan (including modern) would be eligible but it would be difficult under the rules to make any of them competitive without spending an absolutely huge pile of money and even then it would probably be difficult.  

There is also the italian challenge (it's still going?) where you can race just about anything italian with classes based on levels of modification - means you can run just about anything in any state of modification.

State Sports Cars - (Category 2)
Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider, Giulia Spider
Alfa Romeo Spider 1300, 1600, 1750 and 2000
Alfa Romeo Montreal
Alfa GTV (FWD), GTV Spider (FWD)
Alfetta GTV (V6 models)
Again given the cars running State Sports Cars these days it would be very difficult to be not just competitive but have anyone to race at all - these fields are very very fast - can be done - I raced Vic State Sport Cars in a Quad Cam 116 GTV6 for 4 years but I spent a lot and was only ever midfield and the fields are even faster now.

Historic Group N (Historic Production Touring Cars - No Competition History)
Any 105/101 Coupe/Spider (105 the best bet) but there are other cars eligible.
This is a pretty good category in terms of fields, competitiveness, range of events and budget.  A well prepared 105 will be class competitive at a reasonable price as modifications are limited.  A class winning car built from scratch will cost around $40-$50k (that's just about everything possible) but of course you can compete and have plenty of people to race for a lot less.  Plenty of events to choose from including marquee historic events such as Bathurst, Phillip Island, Oran Park, and Eastern Creek run by either the HSRCA, VHRR or FOSC.

Historic Group S (Historic Production Sports Cars - No Competition History)
Any 105 Coupe/Spider, Alfetta GTV pre 81, Montreal
My favorite as a well prepared Alfetta GTV is an outright contender at an incredibly reasonable cost.  Similar to Group N in specification a leading class and outright competitive car will cost $40-50k (again that's just about everything possible) to build but as with Grp N one built for a lot less will still see you in midfield with plenty of people to race.  The cars are cheap to run and maintain and have to be the best bang for the buck in the field and overall.  Check out the Group S Forum on this website for more info including some cost info.  Similar to Grp N there are plenty of events to choose from including marquee historic events such as Bathurst, Phillip Island, Oran Park, and Eastern Creek run by either the HSRCA, VHRR or FOSC.

Certainly from a bang for your buck point of view Group N and S are the best bet.  Cars are cheap and easy to build (in race car terms) and all the mods allowed are available off the shelf.  That's not to say the other classes can't be done, many people thrive on the challenge of engineering that is reqd in the State categories but if you want cheap, easy racing with lots of events and competitors to race with Grp N and S are hard to beat.  Group S has become very popular in both the Vic and NSW clubs with upwards of 30 cars either competing or being built - and the camarderie is great - again - my favorite.  Best bet is a 105 Coupe or pre 81 116 GTV.  

In NSW the VRA are very active as a focal point for Alfa Group S/N competitors and I would reccommend getting in touch with them and attending one of the meetings where they are competing.

Good luck!

« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 10:35:29 AM by Scott Farquharson »
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Scott Farquharson

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2008, 10:28:55 AM »
Just saw your reply - my view has always been that you should spend a year doing sprint meetings on road tyres before going racing as this gives you the opportunity to learn what a car does on the limit before going to higher grip (and therefore faster) tyres where it's harder to learn.  It really gives you the opportunity to learn how to go quick without worrying about cars around you racing for position.  By all means buy a car that you can later develop to a category specification, run at sprint meeting and slowly develop the car. 

For instance buy an pre 81 Alfetta GTV (around $2k), strip out the interior (carpet and deadener), put in a harness, and reqd safety gear, leave it on road tyres and go do some sprint meetings.  You can then over a year or even two start to develop the car to Grp S spec.  Start with suspension, cage, tyres, gearbox and lastly engine.  By the end of that period you will know the car, the tracks and be ready to go racing with confidence.

Again - Good Luck!
Scott Farquharson
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k76

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2008, 11:11:39 AM »
Thanks Scott! Very comprehensive.

I think sprints would be the way to go, and then take it from there. What kind of license do I need to do the sprints?

Regards,

Kris

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Fast Eddie

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2008, 01:43:26 PM »
licensing is simple for sprints - CAMS level 2S or AASA equivalent.
Download the form off the cams website, colmplete it and post it in.  After a while you will receive it in the mail.  That's it other than the annual fee.

A 2S license will allow you to compete @ club sprints, motorkhana, regularity trials and hill climbs. 
At 2S level you basicially compete against yourself as Scott says with only a handful of cars on the circuit at once (in a sprint).

Definitely do the local AROCA sprint series for a while building up confidence and ability and upgrading the car.  Look at what else is on offer at this level - motorkhana, hill climbs etc.

Then, assuming your car is eligible (needs to meet Group S eligility but not neccesarily specifications), consider a regularity type event at one of the annual Historic series which willl get you used to lots of traffic (40 - 60 cars) on the track at once and a great start to a possible venture into historic Group S racing.

A tried and true path to potential glory...and very empty pockets but massive grins!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 01:45:58 PM by Edward Hellsten »
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Scott Farquharson

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2008, 03:48:48 PM »
I concur!
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Enforcer

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 08:56:59 PM »
K76,

Just caught up on the thread. Agree with all of the above. Scott gave a good summary I thought. You need to get some training and do some Supersprinting to start. Join AROCA and get onto Urs Muller for some Driver Traing Dates. Join Veloce Racing at www.veloceracing.org (Mostly AROCA members too and it's free) to keep up to date with what the racing guys are doing. Judging by what you want to do (not serious) it could be the group you want to be part of.

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k76

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2008, 11:29:16 AM »
Hi All,

Just an update to this thread. I am now the proud owner of an alfetta GTV 2000! Haven't got the car home yet so I'll come back with an update later.

Anyway, racing plans are still a bit hazy. I plan on doing the driver training course and some sprints later this year, but I think I'll keep the car road based.

Kris
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alfagtv58

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2008, 11:34:46 AM »
Congrats Kris!  Make sure you join AROCA now, the knowledge base of the club is invaluable as you can see from some of the responses to this thread alone.  Look forward to seeing you at the track sometime (be it in NSW or otherwise)!
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k76

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2008, 11:41:20 AM »
Yep, membership form going out today! Information from here and other sites has indeed been invaluable. So much to learn!!!
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Scott Farquharson

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Re: Racing options in NSW
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2008, 12:30:23 PM »
Congrats Kris,

Great news - you never know you might be in Grp S at Bathurst one day with Phil and the NSW guys.  The Grp S forum has lots of advice on how to build a car as will the guys at the sprint meetings.

Good luck.
Scott Farquharson
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