Author Topic: 164 3.0 V6 track project  (Read 23399 times)

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Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2014, 12:19:01 PM »
Idle hands are the devils play ground, so I thought I'd hack into the alternator for some curious learning. Suffice to say, its my first time digging into an alternator, but it is a very easy item of vehicle maintenance/repair to undertake at home. Anyhow, dirty grimmy alternator will get my undeserving attention, so off it came for a clean. Another venture which worked out for the better as I found the rear palstic bearing bush (tolerance ring) was knackered and had failed to the point that it was in bits throughout the rear of the alternator.  Being my first time, I obviosuly tackled this minor project from all the wrong directions. Firstly, don't remove the windings from the diode plate as I did. I was careful to not over stress the copper wiring to desolder, put I should have lifted the center armeture out, leaving the outer windings in place on the rear housing.

So, alternator apart, I found the rear bearing tolerance ring shattered, the rear bearing on the way out, the slip ring (that copper conact on the shaft) scored and dirty and the contacts in similar condition. All bits apart and start with a good clean and a lick of paint. Sourced some new bolts and screws. Gave the slip ring a freshen up with some fine wet and dry, I think I went 600 if not 1200 grit. I just held the center armiture in a vise with the bearing, held a length of wet n dry around like a belt and spun the armiture by hand for a nice even and level clean. The carbon brushes were just given a very light touch to remove any pitting. Still have plenty of length, but replacement is as simple as desoldering the back ends and swap out with new ones and solder. The slip ring requires a press to remove the bearing first, but otherwsie its just as easy. This alternator appeared to have beebn a refurbished replacement and it was still in reasonable nick other than the above items.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2014, 12:32:54 PM »
Reinstallation... resolder the outer windings to the diode plate, no biggy, can only really go back on one way. The copper winding wires, sit in little saddles and are then soldered. I replaced the old cracked and worn wire sleeves with some heat shrink. I had a tolerance ring machined from plastic, which my mate had three goes at due to the thicknesses. Even after all his efforts I wasn't confident that it was doing what it should as there was a little play. Anyhow, wont to an auto electrican, who supplied me with the bit, even so, it was the correct bit, but it did fit. I had to cut off a second small lug on the outer ring, and i later found that the cutout visible in the pic, should lin up with the large ope hold for the bush mounting. Had to cut that out also. Sparky told me to fit the ring first then lightly press the bush squarely in situ. Best way to do this (I did it wrong) is to reinstall your diode plate and outer windings, solder away, install armiture onto front housing, this one was held in place a a plate screwed into the housing. Then mate the two halfs together. The tolerance ring is a tight fit into the housing, I was lucky enough to have a tolerance ring pressing tool (ie door lock decorative cover!) which was the perfect fit. Used a vise to carefully press the plastic ring in, which thencompresses the ring further. This then makes a very firm fit for the bearing which may also require a careful vise pressing. Evenso, you may even get away with screwing it down in place with the body bolts. Believe me, it is a very firm fit as I had alsorts bags being filled with swear words when I went about it the wrong way...

 
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2014, 12:37:10 PM »
Pulling it apart, I found there was no key on the sfat of the alternator. The sparky said it wasnt required, so long as everything was tight. So, internals in place, reinstal external bits and contact bushes (this is when I found that damn gap in the tolerance ring was wrong) and an alternator good as new. Hooked up my multimeter and a drill, and the alternator appears to be functioning as it should. So, again curiousity saved the day on this item of required hardware.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2014, 03:23:52 PM »
Actually, keeping in mind that the purpose of this thread is for the set up of a track car, what alternatives or suggestions are there for battery and alternator. Can imagine running a smaller battery than standard, considering the electricals have been minimised. Are there smaller, lighter alternators? Is one necessary, will a gel cel run for a day at the track?
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

festy

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2014, 04:29:12 PM »
You will need an alternator, but you could probably downsize a bit. You'll need more power to run your 164 than a carb'd car.
Battery voltage affects ignition dwell time, injector 'dead' time, and even fuel pressure. Your ECU will attempt to counteract low voltage by charging the coil longer and opening the injectors earlier but it can only do so much, and high RPM driving makes it that much harder to run properly at low voltage.

You might also want to look at fitting a slightly larger pulley to the alternator.


Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2014, 05:00:31 PM »
I take it we need to slow down the rpm in the alternator. Is there a spec on ideal rpm? Could probably work out a ratio on pulley sizes.
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

LaStregaNera

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2014, 01:56:51 PM »
I only just noticed this thread - One of the things I did to my 164Q before I blew it up was I added a second rear sway bar - I removed it before I got rid of the car, and it's still sitting in the shed with the brackets for fitting it - made a huge difference to the handling balance.
The electronic struts are actually a very good strut if the car still as them - I rebuilt mine and got the auto damping working, but if the auto damper switching isn't working, they default to the stiff setting, which works quite well...
66 GT Veloce
Bimota SB6

Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2014, 05:33:59 PM »
This just has the normal struts, no auto leveling. A second sway bar???
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2014, 09:22:41 PM »
Well, thanks to La Strega, his simple solution to stiffen up the rear end has come to pass. Such a simple process, add a second bar, wella   :D The hardest part was lining up the damn bolt holes...

As you can see, all that's required is a plate to attach the second bar too, Strega had one fabricated out of aluminium, drill the holes to cater for bar separation and find two slightly longer bolts to accommodate the thickness of the bracket. Since the suggestion, I also found a method to add a second bar to the front. However as Strega suggested, it's a moot point as you negate the rear stiffening and your back to square one and room out front is non existent.

So, as La Strega suggests, the second rear bar will now "...make it behave like a Giant Peugeot 205 - with drop throttle oversteer like a good front wheel driver should have..." Yee Haw  8)
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2014, 01:30:30 PM »
Maybe you are a good driver, But are you a race track driver ??
It might scare you.

Culo, that sounds like a challenge!  8)

Yes baby steps on the track to start with.
Reminds me of an incident many moons ago racing along Livingstone Road, Marrickville in the middle of the night heading to an emergency when I noticed my passanger had turned a shade of white and was holding on to the jesus bar and dash board for dear life. I then glanced at the speedo and saw I was climbing past 160kmh. Hmmm, perhaps the emergency didn't really need us to be there that quick so I hit the anchors to a more respectable (and perhaps safer) urgent run. Still laugh about it today...
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

LaStregaNera

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2014, 11:10:29 PM »
Enjoy!
66 GT Veloce
Bimota SB6

Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2014, 01:00:18 PM »
Well, finally had a few minutes in between deluges here in Sydney to play with the 164 again.
Tackled cleaning up the injectors myself, as the few enquiries I sent seeking quotes on refurbishment went unanswered  >:(

Anyhow, found a full refurb kit for $50 from the US which included all o-rings, plastic washer, pintel and the micro filter. The pintel end of the injector merely pops off with a well placed screwdriver. The micro filter merely needed a suitably sized screw to bite into the brass ring. Then I used pliers to sit on the metal end and with a light swift tap, the filter is out. I sat the injectors in clean fuel for a few weeks at first, with an occasional swizzle each day to move things about (DIY ultarsonics  ??? ).
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2014, 01:13:40 PM »
Next was to give the insides a blast of pressure, so rigged up some tube with my air compressor (set @ 45-50PSI). rigged up a switch with the wacka packa. Attached the tube to the injector top, filled it with throttle body cleaner, inserted air nozzle and applied prssure. Then flicked the switch a few times on and off until the fluid was spent. Internals cleaned. Prior to this, I should add that I check resistance of each injector and all were spot on 16.2 Ohms.

So, now cleaned, I masked up the outside and prep'ed the body for paint. They were original black, but I had a sip of silver that I wanted to get rid of. Anyhow, injectors are now back, the new pintel end ahrdware merely pushed on. The micro filter I just tapped into place with a light tap as I held the injector in my other hand to absorb any harsh jolt. You could press it into place, but that looked like it would take too long  ::)
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2014, 01:20:16 PM »
Whilst researching injector cleaning I came across the listings of injector capacities. Was speaking with one of my mechanic aqcuantences who mentioned installation of larger capacity injectors to help with fuel delivery now and later on down the track. With this in mind, I came across what I believe to be a straight swap cross model injector. They're commonly known as Saab Red Tops, which from memory come off a 2L turbo Saab and apart from flow rate, their specs are identical. The best part of them is that they flow twice the amount of the 164 injector.

Has anybody swapped out injectors on anything for a possible performance gain?

Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS

Cool Jesus

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Re: 164 3.0 V6 track project
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2014, 01:47:35 PM »
Also managed to pull the engine out for an out of vehicle serivce and clean. Damn I've been aching to get my hands on the busso. Was surprised at how easy the muck came off, only needed degreaser on my second go for the more stubborn caked on grease and oil. There was no real indication of a leak, just a layer of general lack of care. May swap the sump gasket while its out as a preventative measure, looks much easier now than in the vehicle.

Now my question with the motor is, the engine has the oil pressure de-tensioner for the timing belt. Its my first time with the busso, but I wouldn't have said it was leaking.
So, do I leave it alone?
Put a new seal kit through it?
Or replace with a mechanical version?
Present:
* '76 Alfetta GTAm 2.0 (project)
* '03 147 2.0 TS
*'12 159 Ti 1750 TBi
===================
Past:
* '10 159 2.2 JTS
* '89 164 3.0
* '98 Spider 2.0 TS