Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Finally, the new year 2012 has ticked over, with time on my hands and a relatively clear calendar I can at long last start the surprise restoration of Mum and Dad's 1976 Alfetta GTAm. I managed to find a clear space at my mate's body shop to be able to work on the car out of the weather. Have spent the last couple of days just striping the car down.
So far at this initial stage;
*I was surprised that the rear parcel shelf was actually covered sheet metal.
*Pulled the doors off, wow there is some weight in them as a complete unit.
*Had a giggle with the boot plastic facia coverings. This model has the fuel tank up against the rear seat, even so Alfa still installed the plastic facia between the rear seat and fuel tank.
I guess it gives standing to Australian bound (RHD) 1.8 Alfetta GT's being retrofitted with the 2 litre. The fuel filler tube hole in the floor (leading to the normally situated tank under the car) was also patched with a piece of metal and rivets.

Edit - replaced the compliance plate photo with an uneditted version. I had edited the prior file, removing the chassis number (for privacy concerns) which was causing some confusion. Number now available for reference.

One more photo

Excellent!  Look forward to following this project.

These cars were'nt retrofited with the 2-litre engine though were they?  That's a question, not a statement as my understanding is that they were built like that by the factory. 

Quote from: aggie57 on January 05, 2012, 09:55:32 AM
These cars were'nt retrofited with the 2-litre engine though were they?  That's a question, not a statement as my understanding is that they were built like that by the factory. 

The reply I recieved from Marco at Alfa Romeo Automobilismo Storico was that the details for this vehicle corresponded to an Alfa Romeo Alfetta GT 1.8 RHD, manufactured on the 20th February 1976 and sold on the 6th May 1976 to Alfa Romeo Australia. Considering homologation for Bathurst and I've read or heard somewhere that these vehicles were organised in a hurry. Its viable that the cars were then fitted out with the 2 litre SPICA mechanicals (American market) in order to have the 25 required cars in Australia, and have a 2 litre engine by the October race, although the Clemens team managed to get a car on the track in September at Sandown.

I'm still trying to figure out if they were put together at Alfa Romeo in Italy or Australia. I'm leaning towards the cars having been shipped complete and in the rush to get them here the paperwork may have gone astray, hence Marco's reply.

im also a fan of mechanical injection.
whats the drivability of the spica system? does it run better than webers?

Quote from: Cool Jesus on January 05, 2012, 10:41:04 AM

Quote from: aggie57 on January 05, 2012, 09:55:32 AM
These cars were'nt retrofited with the 2-litre engine though were they?  That's a question, not a statement as my understanding is that they were built like that by the factory. 

The reply I recieved from Marco at Alfa Romeo Automobilismo Storico was that the details for this vehicle corresponded to an Alfa Romeo Alfetta GT 1.8 RHD, manufactured on the 20th February 1976 and sold on the 6th May 1976 to Alfa Romeo Australia. Considering homologation for Bathurst and I've read or heard somewhere that these vehicles were organised in a hurry. Its viable that the cars were then fitted out with the 2 litre SPICA mechanicals (American market) in order to have the 25 required cars in Australia, and have a 2 litre engine by the October race, although the Clemens team managed to get a car on the track in September at Sandown.

I'm still trying to figure out if they were put together at Alfa Romeo in Italy or Australia. I'm leaning towards the cars having been shipped complete and in the rush to get them here the paperwork may have gone astray, hence Marco's reply.

Interesting - given that there were no spica cars delivered to Australia and that the fuel tank as fitted was a US market one, predating the similar GTV6 setup by several years, it would be surprising if they were modified here but you never know.  Someone will pipe up with the answer I'm sure.

Quote from: BradGTV on January 05, 2012, 10:51:09 AM
im also a fan of mechanical injection.
whats the drivability of the spica system? does it run better than webers?

I'm yet to get to this point in the build, however here's some food for thought. The base for the 105 series GTAm was the 1750 GTV with a SPICA mechanical fuel injection system. SPICA survivied in the USA for well over a decade until Alfa changed car model or EFI was more cost effective. All the reputable literature that I've trawled through (Jim K, AR Bible, Wes Ingram, etc.) sing its praises. It really comes down to how comfortaable you were with servicing the unit or if your local mechanic had any knowledge on it. I believe it is derived from a diesel platform and coverted for petrol use. Fuel injection is the capacity to deliver a proper fuel/air mixture throughout the rev range, so as a standard Wes Ingram states its good for up to arounf 140hp, with minor modifications to the engine. Otherwise you need a guru such as Wes or I think Vince Sharp was another name (going of my dementia there), to tweek the SPICA and its 3D fuel cam to change the fuel map if you are looking at bigger modifcations (such as a track/race car). The yanks have been racing the SPICA for decades and sure, for the average punter it would have been easier and certainly cheaper to throw on a pair of carbs to which any petrol head is more accustomed to.

My project jalopy had been sitting in a yard for almost a year without being touched. I can start another thread on how hard that was! I had to get it across a busy road into my mates workshop, so rather than push it I tried my luck. Got a spare battery that was laying around and it turned over first go. Virtually no brakes, clutch or handbrake made for an interesting 50m dash to.

As a matter of interest I'm looking at modifying the engine per Jim K's recommendations and I will be guided by Wes' (or local guru) as to upgrading the SPICA to cope with the modifications. Of course I'll be able to give a better first hand answer once the unit has been rebuilt. Dad remembers how the only trouble the SPICA gave him was the cold start solenoid which would stick occasionally (that the only electronic device on it too by the way). He was a mechanic in both petrol and diesel so he knew how it worked. Unfortunately it stranded his ledest daughter some 1000kms away on a trip and the local mechanic couldn't understand his instructions to unstick the solenoid, this is when he sold it as he got the sh1ts with always being called out by mum or the kids. He also recalls how he left a Lotus dead in its tracks one day too, so even in standard form it was a rocket which ended up costing him his licence, hahaha.

PS, almost forgot the seond part of the question. Compared to carbutrettors its a mixed bag of reviews that I've come across. However in saying this I would lean towards them being comparable and more efficient than carbs. The tech savvy give the SPICA a thumbs up, however the general populus give it a thumbs down. As mentioned earlier, I'm reading between the lines here and believe that its more a matter of the user not being acquainted with the unit. This isn't anyone's fault other than Alfa Romeo's, as they were so scared of losing their American market to backyarders tweeking the sytem to circumvent emmision requirements that no info left their factory. If anything was to be done to it, even technicians had to send it back to Italy.

I'd like to add here that I'm looking for these sorts of discussions and input as I'm also writing up a short history on Alfa Romeo and this model Alfetta for when I present the car to Mum and Dad, just so I can get a caveat in writting, that the car is to be bequethed back to me! :P

If anyone missed it I've included a link to when my search began for Mum and Dad's car below which will give some insight as to why this is occuring;
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=6454.0 (http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=6454.0)

The cars where delivered in Austraila from the factory with the injected 2L motors, these cars where modified by Alfa before shipping, but Alfas records of production may not show this as the homologation modifactions where done post production either by Alfa or Auto Dalta. The last shipment was delivered on the tarmac at Mascot airport straight out of the back of the plane to there new owners after practice had started under CAMS supervision so that the race cars could run at Sandown, then where returned to Alfa Aust for predelivery.

Quote from: Anthony Sharp on January 06, 2012, 02:32:15 PM
The cars where delivered in Austraila from the factory with the injected 2L motors, these cars where modified by Alfa before shipping, but Alfas records of production may not show this as the homologation modifactions where done post production either by Alfa or Auto Dalta. The last shipment was delivered on the tarmac at Mascot airport straight out of the back of the plane to there new owners after practice had started under CAMS supervision so that the race cars could run at Sandown, then where returned to Alfa Aust for predelivery.

Now why didn't we suspect a Sharp would know the answer to this one!

Sadly I think I can remember the GT AM at Sandown in '76. I can remember staring into the engine bay down in the old pits, of a red Alfetta GT with fuel injection. Thinking to myself how exotic it was, the only other cars I had ever seen it on at that time were F5000's.
Unfortunately this was long before digital cameras and you took hundreds of pictures of everything, at best I might have had a Kodak instamatic with me, but I haven't been able to find any pictures from this meeting yet.
Alan.

Quote from: Alan Hopla on January 06, 2012, 11:52:49 PM

Unfortunately this was long before digital cameras and you took hundreds of pictures of everything, at best I might have had a Kodak instamatic with me, but I haven't been able to find any pictures from this meeting yet.
Alan.

Those photos would be great if you could find them Alan, they'd be great for the book, the thread and the project. Keep searching...
I secretly searched high and low at mum and dad's home for the photo they took of the car being presented by Dad to mum back in the 1980ish without any luck. The wife thinks that they were destroyed when the photo albums were rain damaged one year.

Quote from: Anthony Sharp on January 06, 2012, 02:32:15 PM
The cars where delivered in Austraila from the factory with the injected 2L motors, these cars where modified by Alfa before shipping, but Alfas records of production may not show this as the homologation modifactions where done post production either by Alfa or Auto Dalta. The last shipment was delivered on the tarmac at Mascot airport straight out of the back of the plane to there new owners after practice had started under CAMS supervision so that the race cars could run at Sandown, then where returned to Alfa Aust for predelivery.

Anthony, I've come across this also in my research. I believe there was also photos taken of the auspicioius delivery. How did you come across this, I'd like to get actual confiramtion of this having occuring if at all possible before committing it to print. I've been trawling through all sorts of web media for a few months now, along with some Australian news and publication archives without much luck.

I should also add here, if anybody as after any specific photos while the Alfetta is being stripped, I'd be more than happy to post them for your perusal.

I'd like a photo of the boot/fuel tank arrangement please!!

Good luck with the resto, and for keeping us informed. Anything you coem across in relation to the actual race cars would be appreciated as well..

Regds

Bill

Sorry, just noticed you already have a shot of the tank...

Here's a few more pics from the tear down as Bill requested. I was initially avoiding removal of the carpet as I knew it wasn't going to be pretty in the front passanger footwell and A pillar. Turned out to be not so bad, there's just some cosmetic cancer at this stage, I think I may have lucked out in this regard. Front screen wasn't even sealed near the bottom left, amazing it wasn't worse.

Fuel tank and another shot of the SPICA

Here's the area of concern mentioned above

Wow, look who has been busy over the holidays!!

My car has the same mounts for the fuel tank for sure but has been converted back to standard tank at some point in time. Any idea of the tank capacity?

Regds

Bill

That rust around the screen is pretty common on the cars. From that photo it does the floor does look like it has some serious issues though. What about the sills?

The boot plastic lining looks in pretty good nick which is good. It was only fitted to the early cars and gets hacked about more often than not. Or just thrown away. So while it is amusing it's also pretty rare to see in that sort of condition.

Going of the US owner's manual it should be 49 litres, which looks about right. I'll take some measurements and confirm this for you Bill. Thanks for the maths homework!

From what I've been seeing with other rebuilds, yeah the rust areas are as per any other Alfetta, which is why I was apprehensive at lifting the carpet and now stripping that area down further. Sills are good and soild if you can believe it. There's a spot on the left rear just off the trim sill thats worked its way through. There's also a spot under the left door handle, left tail light and lower panel, left rocker panel and the front panel under the area that allows for bonnet opening. Of course, this is only preliminary and I will no doubt find more as I strip to bare metal. Its otherwise fairly solid with a tap test. The panel beaters working at the shop think I've got rocks in my head for working on such an old car, and I laugh as they drive off in their jalopies. The owner, my mate, didn't seem too concerned with what he saw, so I'm quitely confident as to is structural integrity and repairability.

I figured the rear seat lining was a rare item as I've never come across it on the web.

Still striping down the chassis, getting closer to starting the rust removal. I've searched high and low for replacement Alfetta front floor pans. Does such an item exist? The passanger side is worse than the driver's side, but for consistency I'd like to weld in the same section on both sides. Any ideas? Best alternative I've found with ribbing, shape and drain holes is a Holden HQ panel which will require some minor shaping. Or does the monocoque chassis have some secrets I need to be aware of before I cut and weld the floor?

Ok, medical crisis overted with the mother in law, we now have back home safe.
Looking at a few options and thought I'd see how the poll function works on the forum.
1. Basically I'm going to be adding air conditioning to the GT, so the fresh air ducts will become redundant. This being the case, I was toying with the idea of sealing off the air vents on the scuttle which will add the benefit of reducing further rust issues. So the first poll I've added is to see what your thoughts are on this.
2. Secondly, I'm also tinkering on whether or not to remove the boot lock/button aswell. Was thinking of sealing it off and using an electronci locking mechanism which funtions off the Alfa Romeo bage, similar to the current models. So the second poll is on this option.

Of course I'd love to hear your thoughts on these ideas. As much as possible, I'm wanting to retain the vehicle as close to original as possible, but I'm wanting to add  some extra functionality at the same time. Looking forward to hearing your opinions.

Dont you still need the air coming in through the vent for the air con to work. Otherwise you will just be circulating the stale air in the cabin.
Just make sure that your drains are clear and you use a good rust proofing when rapairing the area.
Does not look quite right without the vents.
Removing the boot lock looks good.
Cheers
David

First post on this thread that I've been lurking on - intersting car/story/nice work!

Ambivalent about the boot lock - losing ugly alfa romeo text is good though! Was this part of the "Am" (American's need big labels on things to know what they are?) - I don't remember my GT having it?

And so far as vents go - I think you need them functionally and I don't think removing them helps the aesthetics (if it was plastic GTV that would be different). I'm also not too sure that water from that side has anything to do with the rust - more of a problem is sealing and draining water properly around the screen than anyting to do with water via vents?

Should add that the photos aren't from the rebuild. Just a couple I found on the web that best illustrated the modifications.

The www, tells me that AC works best on recirculation. I'll also be using an aftermarket or more current style of vehicle AC system as the 70's style doesn't seem to rate well with users. Regarding the fresh air, if someone did cut the cheese in the car and you didn't want to suffer the continued agony, there's always the front quarters that could be cracked open?... actually how do they go open (even just a bit) when its raining outside?

The aircon works best on recirc if the air in the car is already colder than the air outside. It is except when you start the car after its been parked in the sun...

My2cents worth CJ (and having 3GT's in the shed), I wouldn't consider messing with the aesthetics of such a significant car. Do it original and do it right! This is a restoration, not a hot-rod project? I think the scuttle vents are one of the endearing features of the earlier models, lost with the plastic on later versions. I only wish I had your enthusiasm to start the process on one of mine! Watching with interest, cheers, Craig.

I know, I know. I'm having to really try and hold myself back sometimes. I guess I'm just after reassurance that I'm going down the right track on the restoration with a concourse judging sheet nearby ticking and flicking the points I'd be relegating... So I guess scissor doors are out of the question too!

I should perhaps pre-empt any for sale posts that members may place on the forum.
I'm pretty much replacing a large majority (99%) of parts on this restoration, hence if anyone has any Alfetta GT parts, near new or better, they are looking to rid themselves of, please PM me. Keep in mind I may be inundated with offers, and the $$$ will mount up. As such I'll reply to any PMs sent asap and add further posts as the parts are accumulated. Thought I'd get in early, as a part went on which I would have snatched up and I don't want to miss these opportunities.

Thanks in advance ;D

Chaps, please confirm for me or otherwise, is this front right wheel axle a lost cause?
What to do or where to procure same?

Hi Cool Jesus, Do you know how much those Spica mechanical injector pump are worth.

Your best bet is to jump on the AlfaBB site in the US and ask the locals there. I've seen second hou also and units selling between $400-$700 USD on Ebay, I'm sure a fellow US Alfisti would part with theirs much cheaper though. Even so, then you'd want to have it serviced at upwards of $1000 by Wes Ingram in the US. But you will also need the ancillory hardware that goes with the injection system??? One of the pump types also had a better fuel delivery map aswell, I think it was a '74 model which allows harder revving. I could look it up if your still interested.

Hi Cool Jesus

I have a 1978 Alfetta GTV that I am doing up thinking to put a 3.2 V6 in it :-\,

But I have a spica fuel pump in new condition sitting in my garage for about 16 years and now I am thinking perhaps the way to go is to install fuel injection to the 2 litre engine and keeping it.

The number on the pump plate is ABB4Cs75/126071, Does anyone know which model Alfa this pump would of been fitted to.

I need to shop around for drive pulleys and a manifold ,4 injectors and fuel pipes.

Quote from: ALFAAA on April 28, 2012, 06:14:20 AM
The number on the pump plate is ABB4Cs75/126071

Sound like you have the 1976 - 77 pump model T260/1. The plate should actually read AIBB4OS75  T260/1. Perhaps its the remains of an Alfetta GT Am?

OK, sorry troops, have been a little slow in updating on progress, however as most would sympathise there is a fine line between male priorities and matrimonial harmony???

Anyhow, I have a question. Cleaning up the torsion bars and I can't seem to distinguish any markings on either of them. They are 989mm long, and 23mm dia (~0.90 - 0.91"). Both bars appear to be painted blue and just in case I have marked them as left and right. There are neither coloured markings in the first 100mm from each end of either bar nor the "L, R, D or S" markings at the ends.

So, my question is why is there a separation as to left and right for the bars? Are they manufactured to resist torsional forces in that particular direction better than the other?

Not sure who to shake my fist at with this one, probably my father in law, I'll make sure that I point out to him the pros and cons of riveting and bogging rust sections on cars when I hand it over.

Actually early on I think I was asked how the sills were and I misunderstood the area that was being asked about. The passenger side seems to have had the kings share of cancer, having chewed its way from the front window sill, its had decades to work its magic all through that left side and then to find sections had been riveted on, arghhh!.  

Anyhow, car is completely stripped and starting the rub down to bare metal and running repairs of rust removal as I go.

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