Hi guys - new to this forum - really valuable resource for all Alfa owners. :)
I thought I would share my experiences with the dreaded Motor Control System Failure on my 2004 156 JTS.
For several months I have been experiencing intermitent Motor Control System Failure warnings - probably once a week under reasonable acceleration (typically around 3000 rpm I would see the message - although only occasionally). In the past 6-8 weeks the problem become significantly worse - I was getting at least dozen warnings per day (they all seemed to self-clear from the computer within a few seconds). At the same time, I was noticing a loss of power (like the car was running lean or losing ignition) under any sort of acceleration beyond 2500 rpm (in any gear). The past 2 weeks have been bloody aweful - I was really struggling to accelerate without a warning message coming up and the car was shuddering and seemed to be running very lean (like it was running out of fuel).
The car went through a regular service and I asked the mechanics to check the fault codes on the computer and see what was happening. As the faults self-cleared, nothing was lodged in the system. I convinced myself that the service/tune-up would fix the problem (yes I know I was an idiot ;D) and I happily drove away from the dealer hoping never to see the dreaded Motor Control System Failure warning ever again. ::)
About 2 kms into my trip home the car shuddered and lost a lot of power again and a permenant warning came-up on the computer for a Motor Control System Failure. This warning did not self-clear and I returned to the dealer to plug in the diagnostic interface. Low-and-behold, the failure was finally diagnosed.
Misfire on Cylinder 4 - the coil pack sitting on top of spark-plug 4 had died (verified using a multimeter - complete loss of impedience - hence no sparking (or very little) and therefore the car was running on 3 cylinders at times). After 1 hour (& ~$500 :o) - problem completley fixed.
I took my baby for a spin and she ran like a dream - absolutely perfect acceleration and all her power was back to normal. God bless the new coil-pack.
The dealer told me that this is becoming a common problem for the JTS engines (which I've confirmed through my reading of various websites).
Hope this info helps other JTS owners should they experience similar problems.
Hey i'm a newbie too!! I had the very similar issue with my 2004 156 JTS and they ended up in changing my coil pack. But mines was different to urs, cos i had problems with cylinder 1,2 and 4. u could imagine how much trouble i would've gone through. Luckily mine was under dealer warranty and i didn't have to pay anything. The mechanic told me its a common issue for JTS. It runs very well after its been fixed. Guess can only hope for the best. Fingers crossed!
Thanks for the info.
It appears that the Twin Spark and JTS have slightly differing issues in this area so the update is appreciated.
Cheers.
Our 156 Jts has had 3 coil packs changed....one to go! haha.
Hi.
I had the same code come up on our 2004 JTS.
It happened when my wife ran the cal low on fuel.
The mach plugged it in & cleared the errors, but if it is coil or ignition pack then I suspect it may occour again (been good for over a week now.)
Mine has 86K on the clock...what K's did it start happening to yours?
Quote from: 156oro on June 07, 2009, 09:57:17 PM
Hi.
I had the same code come up on our 2004 JTS.
It happened when my wife ran the cal low on fuel.
The mach plugged it in & cleared the errors, but if it is coil or ignition pack then I suspect it may occour again (been good for over a week now.)
Mine has 86K on the clock...what K's did it start happening to yours?
Mine started at 70,000. Since I changed the coil pack, it has been a dream - perfect performance again.
Me too! I had 3 coils go within 5000k of each other from about 50,000k. Very common problem but freaks you out when the message come up! I wonder if they were all originally fitted with dud coils and our replacements might be of better quality. Clicked over 100k last week and no further problems so far.
Steve
Ah, well then lucky me as my '03 156 JTS Sportwagon hasn't yet suffered this issue. The only fault to date I have encountered (touch metal !) is a faulty crank sensor which basically stopped the car dead. Had this fixed, $240 and alls fine once again. :)
Will keep an eye out for this other possible delight and should it occur at least I will be aware of the problem. Good to know. Dave
Quote from: saratoga on June 30, 2009, 04:52:44 PM
Me too! I had 3 coils go within 5000k of each other from about 50,000k. Very common problem but freaks you out when the message come up! I wonder if they were all originally fitted with dud coils and our replacements might be of better quality. Clicked over 100k last week and no further problems so far.
Steve
I actually wondered that too - I've read the same thoughts on other Alfa forums. Mine has been great since the initial problem (fingers and toes crossed ;)).
Quote from: Choderboy on July 13, 2009, 10:58:10 PMDO NOT attempt to drive it at all. The computer gets all sorts of messed up readings on AF ratios and all that stuff which I know little about, but I could smell something burning when I ran ours on 3 cylinders and opened the bonnet to find the entire exhaust manifold was GLOWING RED HOT!
That's interesting because when my 3rd coil went i took it to Euromarque (Alfa dealer in Brisbane) and after they ran some computer checks they told me that it was ok to drive the car. They also charged me $750 ($396 for the coil) to fix the 2nd coil that went as apposed to a euro mechanic that only charged me for the part $340 odd and fitted it in a few minutes.
@ 156southpaw i too nearly filled my pants when i had this failure appear on my dash!
QuoteThat's interesting because when my 3rd coil went i took it to Euromarque (Alfa dealer in Brisbane) and after they ran some computer checks they told me that it was ok to drive the car.
I find that interesting they said that but no surprise there with the Dealer charging double!!!!!
Good info guys, but how much to fix per coil ?
So should you go the set when one fails, you replace the lot or is that going overboard ?
Cheers.
I was told (by Euromarque ;) ) that if number 2 coil went for example that number 3 would follow not long after that due to it being quite hot there in the middle.
I Just replaced one at a time as i was strapped for cash at the time, as i said Euromarque charged $390 as apposed to $340 at Euro Aus.
It cost me $500 to replace my coil pack (took about 1 hour to replace). It has been >6 months since I replaced it and I've had absolutely no problem with the other ones (touch wood).
It would seem sensible to replace the lot if you could afford it - but my boss lady would throw a wobbly if I did that!! ;D
Thanks for the info. I can see why you would only replace what you have too.
$1200+ one go is a bit unnecessary.
The JTS is a superb motor, but besides the belt change issue, we have the irregular oil usage & coil problems, I can see that even a few Alfa service providers recommend the post 2002 V6 with extra safety, stability control and a better engine; or as cheaper alternative go for pre 2002 twin spark.
Cheers.
my 156 jts has had cyclinder 1 coil replaced at 97000km ive just hit 110000 and so far no coil issues just the cat is showing fault and bringing the evil MOTOR CONTROL SYSTEM FAILURE up- my performance is still sparkling - im reallllly hoping it stays that way -now is not the time for my 156 to need coils replaced :(
Thanks for the info guys - really appreciate it. Having very similar issues with my 05GT.
Taking it to Euro Aus in Capalaba, Qld this week.
So much for me bragging how great my '03 JTS Sportwagon had been, for I too now have suffered this problem. For me the cost was approx $480 to fix, and thankfully so far no sign of any more problems but at least I am so much more aware and expect that others will need to be replaced in due course. My car experienced this issue at 105,000km.
I guess the one question that no one seems to have asked is why do they fail? Oh and btw my mechanic has said to me previously that from his experience, the JTS is in fact the best proposition out of all engines, as fitted to the 156. The cam belts on the V6 cost about double the cost of on the 4cl and Twinnies also have problems.
Hi,
can anyone advise how to determine whether a coil pack has died? Is there a test using a multimeter on or off the car which proves it one way or another?
Cheers.
Thanks guys! Very helpful information! I own a 03 JTS and currently am at about 59,000km! Hopefully this problem doesn't come up anytime soon!
coil packs are absolutely not an issue confined to the JTS... the TS (and other cars such as bimmers) have a history of going through them...
for anyone considering doing all of them, look into shipping them in from the UK. I have seen quotes from 100-150quid each.
I know this is an old thread , but could someone please advise if the coil packs are specific to each cylinder ( ie the coil pack for cylinder 1 is different to the coil pack on cylinder 2) or a new coil pack can be used on any cylinder.
Quote from: Paul Gulliver on August 22, 2011, 06:26:42 PM
I know this is an old thread , but could someone please advise if the coil packs are specific to each cylinder ( ie the coil pack for cylinder 1 is different to the coil pack on cylinder 2) or a new coil pack can be used on any cylinder.
They can be used on any cylinder mate. ;)
There would be a professional way of checking for dud coil packs, here is a backyarders way of checking, remove all coil packs, remove all spark plugs and clean them or put new ones in, put back spark plugs and coil packs, if engine runs ok, then you have fixed problem, [it was a dirty spark plug], if engine is running rough, run for about a minute, switch of engine, remove coil packs from spark plugs, remove spark plugs and note condition, spark plug that is not firing will be wet and a different color to the other plugs, mark suspected dud coil pack and put it on another cylinder, run engine again for a minute and check spark plugs, if you find a wet and different colored plug on the previously marked coil pack, then this coil pack is faulty, this method works sometimes, but is not foolfroof, Colin.
Soooo I was driving on Kings St this morning and the MOTOR SYSTEM FAILURE came up. Car started shaking and eventually wouldn't drive. I've taken it Ultra Tune in the CBD. Will be interesting how much they charge to replace the coil. 2 have been previously replaced. 2 more to go.
My Question is... Are coils hard to replace yourself or should I ask a mechanic to change it? Quite worried about the price for parts and labour.
Should I just change the 2 in one go or just change the coils as they go?
Thanks :)
Annabella,
Having determined which coil has failed, change that one, but the other one could fail later, but who knows when, I would wait. Changing coil isn't difficult, if you are interested and wanting to do it yourself, good experience. Just need some tools and just look around.
I am sure Ultratune could be ok (though I personally wouldn't go there) but for security, take the JTS to your Alfa repairer, you will get the care your Alfa deserves.
Labour shouldn't be that much if it is just changing out the faulty coil. Watch for what you charge you for the coil, as always.
Hope all is well.
Neil
If you know which coil pack is faulty, then try one of our club supporters for a new coil pack, Italian Automotive Spares in Brunswick, talk to Dom or Marc and Alfamen in Brooklyn, talk to Matt. Don't drive the car with a faulty coil pack as the excessive heat from the unburnt petrol in the cats will ruin them and replacement new is a few thousand $$$$, Colin.
Have replaced all coil packs now on the 156 so know the story. Also would like to know why they fail but is not confined to Alfas - the German cars have similar issues.
No point replacing all coil packs or searching for one's about to fail - it just happens! Best to shop for a cheap ones to keep as spares.
Just another under whelming feature of this Alfa.
I have been replacing my 13 year old coil packs with second hand ones, to get me on the way, and then they fail, should really bite the bullet and buy 4 new ones, even Toyotas have coil pack failures, these little coil packs do a brilliant job when you think about it, all that heat and vibration, not to mention the oil, they must fire millions of times before they fail, Colin.
Quote from: colcol on September 04, 2015, 09:18:01 PM
I have been replacing my 13 year old coil packs with second hand ones, to get me on the way, and then they fail, should really bite the bullet and buy 4 new ones, even Toyotas have coil pack failures, these little coil packs do a brilliant job when you think about it, all that heat and vibration, not to mention the oil, they must fire millions of times before they fail, Colin.
VW Golf mk4 GTI and 2.0L were notorious for bad coils, pretty sure they had a recall in the U.S. (Would never happen in Australia).
https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Results&category=22&secondary=53&opts=3381&term=Alfa%255FRomeo%255F156%255FMk2%255F%25282002%253E%2529%255F2%252E0%255FJTS%255F16v%255FIgnition%255FCoils&cat=Ignition_Coils
£55./each
Other shops may have them
Thanks Craig - might do some shopping.
Col, my Toyota has not had a problem with the coil packs - have thrown a big end but no coil pack problems!
Paul
Found this post via the search function, which relates to diagnosing a faulty coil pack on the Alfa 156 JTS engine. My 2005 156 JTS has been experiencing symptoms applicable to a faulty coil pack (Engine misfire/hesitation under load and low rpm, with EMS light coming on momentarily).
The difficulty with such a diagnosis is identifying which cylinder is causing the problem and is it the coil pack or spark plug. Please note that the simple balance test of each cylinder as shown on several Youtube clips will not pinpoint the cylinder misfire because you are unable to replicate faulty condition. For such a situation, the cheaper diagnostic tool that has I/M readiness status when switched to ON will be able to identify the cylinder at fault when symptom is replicated. As in my case P0303 identified cylinder 3 to be at fault. Now to determine whether the spark plug or coil pack was at fault and save myself some money, swap the coil pack to say cylinder number 4. If the coil pack is at fault the code will now be P0304 or if it is still P0303 then spark plug is at fault. As in my case, the coil pack was faulty and new one purchased through e-bay (refer to link below). The car has been driven for several days without any further problem.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-GENUINE-BOSCH-IGNITION-COIL-ALFA-ROMEO-156-GTV-SPIDER-JTS-937A1-0221604103/301940621302?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Cheers
bonno
Hi Bonno, I'm watching this to see if your "paired" coil pack (#2) goes soon after your replacement of #3.
Hi CB
The car has been running fine since the coil pack was replaced and I guess that it is only a matter of time that the others will start showing signs of failure (it's just a matter of when). I could have gone out and replaced all 4 at a cost of $500, but I see no sense in wasting money as it is quite a simple job to diagnose, identify and replace. A two day turn around on supply of new coil pack is not a worry and I do have a spare in the boot just in case a COMPLETE coil pack failure is experienced which I consider unlikely (low RISK).
cheers
bonno