Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Technical => 116 Series (Alfetta Sedan/GT/GTV & Giulietta Sedan) => Topic started by: redalfaracing on January 24, 2009, 07:42:04 PM

Title: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 24, 2009, 07:42:04 PM
Pep asked for some pics of my new GTV6. I brought it home yesterday on a trailer, had to borrow a mates as it didn't run and my trailer has no winch ( the Alfetta never breaks bown so i don't need one!). All was well until i hit the Hallam by-pass when the wheels fell off literally. I'm not kidding, front passenger side wheel on the trailer came loose, nuts only on by a whisker. very lucky i didn't loose them. Hope that isn't an omen for this project. Finally got it home, unloaded it and went back to work. After dinner i tipped some fuel in it and turned the key. started effortlessly and ran for 20 seconds then died. no amount of cranking would make it fire. Worked out that the fuel pump wasn't running, so i hot wired it and instant success. Tried this morning in the light to start it. same problem. Changed the airlow meter, then the double relay thing, nothing. followed the wiring back and found that black thing with the button on the top. Primer i think. pressed the button a few times and fuel pump started. engine then started and has run perfectly ever since. Bow has that thing got some get up and go. 3rd gear powerslides on the gravel roads. i am impressed. shame about the syncros! never mind i can fix that.
My first task is to get a RWC and get it registered. Easier to register a standard car than a rally car. I could put it on CH plates but i would like to be able to use it with less restrictions. 
Any way, here are some pics. I will keep you posted of the progress if you are interested.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Mat Francis on January 24, 2009, 08:40:35 PM
I'd be very interested to see updates Greg, and i'm sure there are PLENTY of others also. Sounds like a whole heap of fun!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: david sammartino on January 25, 2009, 12:31:50 AM
sounds like you are refering to the inertia switch.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 25, 2009, 12:14:02 PM
Is that what that thing is. better ditch that cause in a rally every corner will make it shut off. good idea in theory, but just one more component to acquire a gremlin. Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: pep105 on January 28, 2009, 01:04:01 AM
Thanks for posting the photos Greg, this thing seems to be a bit of a launcher with the 3 litre conversion, 3rd gear powerslides hey - alright!

looks like a good solid unit no doubt you'll have a ball - Congrats

I look forward to your progress updates

Cheers
Pep 

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 28, 2009, 09:41:10 PM
No Pep, still a 2.5. Wait til i get the 3L in her, then it should be a force to be reckoned with!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on January 29, 2009, 12:37:28 AM
I may have missed something.  If it's a Production Rally Car, how can you run it with a 3 litre?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 29, 2009, 08:16:07 PM
Sheldon, being a pre '86 normally aspirated car, there are a few more freedoms allowed. concerning the engine, the block and head(s), number of cam shafts and their drive, number of valves and number of spark plugs and their position must be as produced. the crank, pistons etc are free.  the 2.5 litre block can be machined to accept the 3L liners and crank.  Heads can be fitted with oversized valves. this is quite legal and indeed common place in prc. there are a lot of 2.4 litre stanzas and 2 litre datsun 1600's running around. I have a donor 164 3 Litre motor which i will use to turn the 2.5 into a 3L. Hope that clears up your confusion.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Scott Farquharson on January 30, 2009, 09:36:51 AM
Gee Whiz, 250+ HP at least, I might go and do PRC!  Gee a GTV6 like that on dirt would be awesome!  Keep us all in the loop on it's development and competition - love to know how it turns out.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 30, 2009, 09:36:42 PM
Scott, It's the best legal fun you can have sitting down. But i do need to sell that '77 gtv to help finance it. It does come with all the bits you need to make it go,you know! Maybe you should come and have a look?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: pep105 on February 02, 2009, 10:17:30 PM
Quote from: redalfaracing on January 28, 2009, 09:41:10 PM
No Pep, still a 2.5. Wait til i get the 3L in her, then it should be a force to be reckoned with!

Right OK and given the freedom of mods allowed looks like its all over, how many horses are we talking is it in the ballpark Scott is saying - keeps us posted on all the details 
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 03, 2009, 08:16:03 PM
Pep, max horspower is not my goal. I am willing to sacrifice high top end HP for a good spread of power and an engine that will last for a long while. Yes i will keep you posted as it takes shape. Gotta get through the air/con season b4 i can get started on it. Given last weeks weather i am working long hours. Every one seems to want a split system and they want it yesterday!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: pep105 on February 04, 2009, 12:31:36 AM
Yeah last week was a joke how hot it was didnt even bother to go in the garage to start the 105 or my vespa - bugga that, maybe I need a split system in there  ;D  At least your work is in demand everyone else is struggling

Understand what you mean by the engine mods given its application, didnt mean to sound like someone who is just interested in how many kahunas its got, its how it delivers it and no doubt engine life and a useable power band are important for what you what to do. I have a 2 litre engine for the Jnr on the garage floor  that wont set the world on fire but is a good useable strong engine thats good for the street and will do the job for trackdays - more on that later in another thread when it cools down and get back in the garage. 
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 04, 2009, 04:48:45 PM
A Gravel rally engine needs to have a broad power spread as often you find yourself about to face the wrong way in a corner and if your engine boggs down when you floor it, you have no chance of driving out of it. By the time you find the apprpriate lower ratio it is usually too late. And pretty embarrasing if it happens at a spectator point!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 05, 2009, 08:38:16 PM
I wish i lived in Thousand Palms California .......Ebay Item number: 130285718908
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 11, 2009, 08:32:48 PM
OK, now it's gotten cooler i get to do some work i wanna do, not work i gotta do.
I have been busy on the GTV6 the last 2 days and gotten it up to scratch , put it on the hoist at our clubs CH inspector, and have Vic Roads paper work filled in for Classic Historic club permit. I'll get to Vic Roads tomorrow and exchange some cash for some red plates. Then the hard work begins. I have to gut the interior, Dash and screen out and get it to Rai Curry's to be caged whilst i am away on hols in a week.
I took it for a squirt on a few local roads and found it a delight to drive, however i don't know how you can even think of driving it quick on a twisty tar road, feels good entering the corner but exits are a disaster with it lifting the inside rear wheel and smoking up the tyre. Needs less rear sway bar and an LSD. I dare say i'll get it sorted.
As a matter of interest, on the way home today i put it over a weigh bridge. Standard trim 5 litres of fuel and 2 litres of washer water it weighed 1220 kg. Front wheels weighed 660 kg and rear wheels weighed 560 kg. As a 2.5 litre PRC the minimum weight is 1030 kg and as a 3.0 litre 1090 kg. Considering the cage will weigh about 70 kg that means i need to extract about 200 kg from it. Big ask me thinks! Anyone got any radical ideas?
I drove to Sydney last week end and brought home another 1983 GTV6 to restore as a daily driver. Looks identical to the first one i bought except it has its Recaro interior. This one has a very sad engine. It runs, just but water pours out of the water pump and it has zero oil pressure. Still it started 2nd turn of the key and drove up onto the trailer which was a relief ( pushing cars and me don't get on!)
I have a 2.5 in a 75 that i can plonk in it so it's not a big issue. i think the biggest issue is the gaping rust hole under the washer bottle. didn't see that till i got it home. Should be easy to fix i hope whilst the engine is out.  Life is never dull here.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 12, 2009, 10:02:12 PM
I am sad today, which is a contrast to yesterday. Raced to Waragul Vic Roads today after work at 4.40, only to find they close at 4.30, Who closes at 4.30????  who do they think they are, a BANK?

Never mind, there is always tomorrow
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Barry Edmunds on March 13, 2009, 10:25:42 AM
Greg,

You really are being a tad optomistic, even demanding, to expect Vic Roads to actually provide service for its customers. There are one of two few exceptions of course but VicRoads as an organisation would easily qualify as one of the more unhelpful statutory bodies that I have ever encountered. Seems they don't consider themselves to be accountable to anyone, least of all the poor schmuks like us who pay their wages and put up with poor service and their unfriendly hours of operation.

Guess you should be thankful that there is tomorrow.

Barry
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: alfagtv58 on March 13, 2009, 10:39:05 AM
Quote from: redalfaracing on March 11, 2009, 08:32:48 PM
put it on the hoist at our clubs CH inspector

I have to point out that what Greg refers to here is not our club.  AROCA Vic does not have a club CH inspector.  It is a long standing requirement that a RWC is needed before we can sign off on the Vic Roads paperwork.  Simply due to the fact that the committee are enthusiasts and not mechanics therefore we cannot vouch for vehicle safety with any authority.

Quote from: redalfaracing on March 12, 2009, 10:02:12 PM
Raced to Waragul Vic Roads today after work at 4.40, only to find they close at 4.30, Who closes at 4.30????  who do they think they are, a BANK?

Gov dept.  enough said!!

I would have thought you need an appointment anyway Greg?  I know you do when registering a car on normal rego.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Evan Bottcher on March 13, 2009, 12:07:03 PM
No appointment required for a new CH permit at Vicroads.  The car doesn't need to be inspected, so they just do it over the counter. 

That said, my experience was that the person behind the counter doesn't have a clue how to process the permit - I had to get the supervisor involved to cut through the misinformation (e.g. "you need a letter from the club" - which is not true - just the form signed correctly).

As Phil says - the Vic club will not give any statement of roadworthiness, a proper RWC is required.  The secretary (or other authorised committee members) only signs the part of the form that says that the person getting the permit is a financial member of the club.

Should the govt privatise VicRoads - maybe Connex will need a new contract if they lose the trains?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 13, 2009, 12:31:33 PM
Sorry Phil, i prehaps should have included in my ramblings the fact that i am a member of the Pakenham Auto Club, and we are blessed with a member who owns and runs a mechanical repair business in Lang Lang. It has been a long standing requirement of our club that Beegs must inspect all cars that are to be given a club permit thru PAC.
Actually an appointment isn't required, i wandered into Burwood East Vic Roads at 9.30 this morning and within 10 minutes had a pair of shiny historic plates in my hand. It probably could have been a lot quicker if the customer service officer had even some vague clue on what procedure to follow when presented with a ch request.
I was surprised by the cost. i was sure when i got the sedan ch plated that i had to pay for the plates.
today i paid $106 and was assured that covered the plates as well. Maybe i will get a bill for them later??
I note in our magazine ( the oilrag) that VCAS rd2 is on on sunday at Kyneton. If i can get an entry in i might drive up and have a dip. VCAS being Victorian Club Autocross Super series , and PAC is a member club.

Heaven forbid Connex get involved in anything in Victoria ever again!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 15, 2009, 09:47:28 AM
Kyneton over subscribed, bugger.. good for the organisers, bad for me.  Looks like i get to have a whole day in the shed :)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 17, 2009, 09:36:35 PM
The GTV6 is now stripped ready for a cage. Just removing the seats, carpet, under felt and bitumen
sheet will get me well on the way to my weight target. 8.5 kgs of bitumen scraped of the floor with a hot air gun and a wood chisel. Taking it to Rai Currys in Braeside on thursday for caging. Might take it over the weigh bridge on the way then on the way home so i know how much the cage weighs. Any of you guys think the dash is too heavy? The bare dash ( no instruments ) 8.5 kg. If i get a fiberglass one made , any one else interested?


Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 19, 2009, 04:22:23 PM
The GTV is now down in Braeside at Fabraications getting its cage. Get it back b4 Easter. I have picked up some willwood superlite calipers for the front. Anyone tell me what big discs will fit on the front hubs, i have heard mention of 156 discs, are they the largest diameter that will fit inside the 15" rims?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: alfagtv58 on March 19, 2009, 05:04:51 PM
I went past Fabraications today on the way to get lunch.  pop in and have a coffe with me next time greg.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 19, 2009, 06:10:38 PM
you dont work in that pink fronted building across the road do you???
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: alfagtv58 on March 20, 2009, 09:24:27 AM
I have no idea what you mean ;)

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 20, 2009, 10:33:38 AM
i was reading on the alfa GTV6 forum about a rear brake mod where they fitted Peugeot 306 front discs to the rear of a GTV 6 ( inboard) has anyone tackled this?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Jekyll and Hyde on March 20, 2009, 06:50:50 PM
Quotei was reading on the alfa GTV6 forum about a rear brake mod where they fitted Peugeot 306 front discs to the rear of a GTV 6 ( inboard) has anyone tackled this?

Haven't heard of that one before, but would be interested to know more.... Don't think the girlfriend would miss her front brakes, she doesn't use them much anyways  ;D
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on March 20, 2009, 11:02:57 PM
Quote from: redalfaracing on March 20, 2009, 10:33:38 AM
i was reading on the alfa GTV6 forum about a rear brake mod where they fitted Peugeot 306 front discs to the rear of a GTV 6 ( inboard) has anyone tackled this?

For what benefit?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Thmpar on March 21, 2009, 09:20:51 AM
I have not heard of the peugot brakes on them,But i have mazda b2000 rotors going on the back the same set up we use on the sud,and wrx turbo rotors and calipers going on the front.Of course there are no easy way to do it,it took nearly a month to get it set up on the sud,but it stop's on a stamp even with the rear brakes locked off.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 21, 2009, 09:32:55 PM
Quote from: Sheldon Mcintosh on March 20, 2009, 11:02:57 PM
For what benefit?





Sheldon, i'm thinking i've got 190 kw, and a 1100 kg car, if i'm going down a mountain full noise i still want rear brakes when i get there. Rally cars run a lot of rear bias, i subscibe to the theory that if the rear is loose the front is biting. Yes i could put some sz ventilated discs on, but i believe they are pricey and some times hard to get. if 306 discs can be made to fit easily, why not? What the guy also did was relocted the calipers to behind the diff ( 90 degrees rearward) which i think is a good idea. This gets them down in the wind and aids cooling and also away from the red hot exhaust. I am going to give it some serios thought. Keep you posted.

And whist the GTV6 is away getting caged... i'm going fishing. talk to you in a couple of weeks.  ;D
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on March 22, 2009, 10:45:44 AM
Yeah, fair enough ;)

I wasn't aware that rally cars run a lot or rear bias.

I think the rear brakes are fairly good, but the main issue, as you say, is keeping them cool.  I think drilling holes in the floor for ducting would be easier than relocating them though.  If you're allowed to relocate them, can you go outboard?  Probably easier.  There's at least one car in the club with outboard rear brakes, may be worth investigating too?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Jekyll and Hyde on March 22, 2009, 01:06:47 PM
QuoteSheldon, i'm thinking i've got 190 kw, and a 1100 kg car, if i'm going down a mountain full noise i still want rear brakes when i get there. Rally cars run a lot of rear bias, i subscibe to the theory that if the rear is loose the front is biting. Yes i could put some sz ventilated discs on, but i believe they are pricey and some times hard to get. if 306 discs can be made to fit easily, why not? What the guy also did was relocted the calipers to behind the diff ( 90 degrees rearward) which i think is a good idea. This gets them down in the wind and aids cooling and also away from the red hot exhaust. I am going to give it some serios thought. Keep you posted.

Don't suppose you could point us towards the link for this 306 disc conversion, could you?  Just stuck my head under significant others frogbox, and it's definitely conceivable - the 306 front discs have a very shallow hat height, are vented and pretty small in diameter.  Caliper may require a little spacing out from the gearbox as well as the widening spacers if you want to retain standard location, but otherwise looks very possible....
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 04, 2009, 09:50:54 PM
hi all, back from some r & r.

here is the link to the forum on braking, some of the guys waffle on ,( we would never do that!) but if you wade though all the BS you actually find some gems.
http://alfagtv6.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=330 The thread is some 27 pages, the relevant bit is on page 23
as to going outboard, i think its more work and the increase in unsprung weight on a rally car would be detrimental. It's ok for you guys on mirror smooth black top, think about a rutted and corrugated bush track for a second, what would you rather, light or heavy axles??
here are the comparisons of the 2 discs. look at the dimensions. Very do-able.
I'm planning on ditching the boat anchor weight rear calipers and using the alloy brembos of the front on the rear. a hole in the floor for cooling isn't such a good idea on a dirt road. sooner or later i'm going to fill the car up with dust! i figure if i rotate them 90 degrees rearward and incorerate a gearbox bash plte ( allowable on prc) with a turn up at the rear to direct some air onto the calipers it is my best option. I suppose that is ok? Maybe Peter Aird ( a rally scrutineer and a member of this forum may wish to comment) They should be a good match for my Willwood Superlites on the front. I'll get some knackered PUG discs from a wrecker and have a play with them. Keep you posted.
Picked up a Haltech E11V2 and loom for the new engine last week. Can't wait to bring my car home and start putting her together. Might pick it up Monday Arvo work permitting. You better tell me where i find you Phil for that coffee ;D
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on April 05, 2009, 02:05:06 AM
Ah, okay.  I should have elaborated.  The holes in the floor would be sealed and connected to a pipe running from the outside of the car.  This is a pretty standard mod for a track 116.  Also, where would you route an exhaust on a rally car?

Tis funny, the WRC guys seem to cope with outboard brakes? (Don't bother to respond to that comment, I know where you're coming from).

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: alfagtv152 on April 05, 2009, 07:17:28 PM
Hi Greg,
On my GTV I upgraded the front to 164 discs and Volvo 4 spots only to find they would lock much to easy with not much affect coming from the rear so I bought a Kit from Vin Sharp which provided slotted vented rotors(Ford Courier I think) modified to mount on a custom center and a spacer kit for the rear callipers to space them out wider to go over the disc.The only change I made was to mill a little on each side of the pad recess and redo the pin holes to use Alfetta front pads and with an adjustable pressure control valve in the rear line I can balance the braking effort just the way I like,I generally take one notch less for the wet than the dry.
Cheers
Andrew
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 05, 2009, 09:17:43 PM
On my sedan PRC i still run standard brakes straight from an alfa 90 donor, with no booster and an adjustable bias valve and RB74 pads all round. For that car ( 1000 kg and 85 RW KW) i find it more than adequate. How ever with this car , which i expect to be 160 RW KW and 1100 + KG i don't ever want to find myself short on stopping power. I want to get this right before i find i have a problem. I did some investigating today and the PUG discs and brembo calipers will fit so easily, take only a few hrs to knock up the brackets and re drill the discs. i have to turn up some spacing rings as the center hole in the pug disc is a few millimeters larger than the alfa disc. i will have to get extra lugs on the rear pads so i can have an operational hand brake ( road worthy requirement) but that shouldn't be a drama.
Looking good  :)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: meizhak on April 06, 2009, 01:16:55 AM
just my two bobs worth,

greg i used to rally a alfetta a long time ago without any protection of rear brakes. on one occassion i must have hit the disc on a rock or something similar. the  disc cracked around the centre where it bolts to axle.still turned through caliper till it eventually went off centre locked in the caliper and pretty much ripped the side of the diff off {very nasty}. I think this woul be a good reason to go outboard, bit of protedtion inside the wheel.

meizhak
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 06, 2009, 06:33:07 PM
meizhak, and i have had a rock jammed between a dics caliper and the rim, punching a hole in the rim well and letting all the air out. where ever they are they can cause grief, you takes your chances either way, thats rallying! I'm still inclined to go the lower unsprung weight route with a bash plate / air scoop under the gearbox, but i appreciate your 2 bob
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 06, 2009, 08:51:07 PM
meizhak, i wonder if you would be able to post a couple of pics of your old rally car if you have any, really be interested to see it, Thanks :)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 14, 2009, 08:34:06 PM
thought i would give you an update from Alfa Mountain, Car is back with a great cage. Spent some of my Easter break stripping more unwanted parts of it. Have the Peugeot discs mounted up on the gearbox. Such an easy conversion. Going to get the new braket to mount the brembo calipers laser cut and cad plated. Going to have some awsome rear brakes. New brake balance bar and cylinders on their way from the UK. Cheapest place to get them. I bought a girling 5/8 master cylinder locally last week and paid $113 more than exactly the same item i am getting from the UK. I give local people a go... but $113 is a bit rich.  put som pics up this week end. Cheers
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 27, 2009, 09:24:06 PM
work is slowly progressing on my GTV6, doing a lot of stareing and thinking. big hurdle.. spare wheel wont fit any where. I will be using 195/65/15 or 205/65/15 rally tyres, and they dont fit flat on the rear hatch floor , let alone in the spare wheel well. A rally car without a spare is pretty useless, so what to do? The solution that i have come up with is to cut out the panel between the shocker towers, reform the tank with a 3 inch water pipe and a heavy hammer, extend the straps and the tank is now 40 mm further forward and the wheel will lie flat on the floor. I have had to extend the filler neck but it all works. I was going to remove the battery box, but instead i am going to mount a surge tank, 2 fuel pumps and filters in there. Where the pump is now, would get wiped off in no time. I have given up on using the front calipers on the rear, just don't lend themselves to living there because of the fluid inlet. Looking out for some radial mount Brembo or Wilwood 4 piston calipers. The ones of the rear of a Porsche 987 Boxster look promising. ( any one have any lying around?) I have some 147 gta 305 mm discs now which i am in the middle of modifying to suit and mounting the 4 pot Wilwood calipers to the stubs. They are impressive looking stoppers!! Unfortunately work has been getting in the way, this week is looking quieter so i may get some real progress .
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Evan Bottcher on April 27, 2009, 10:01:43 PM
Great stuff Greg.  Did you weigh the car before/after the cage??
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 28, 2009, 12:59:25 PM
Evan, i weighed the car b4 stripping, 1220 kg. i had every intention of weighing after stripping but ran out of time. I will have to settle with a weigh-in on the way to log booking. Rai estimates the cage to weigh 55 kg. Rest assured every thing i touch will go back on at minimum weight, with the exception of brakes. I dont want to skimp on that item!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 28, 2009, 05:41:55 PM
Been playing with the front brakes this arvo, some one will probably know the answer to this question. Which alfa 5 stud 15 inch rims have the most clearance for big brakes. The speedline rims i have been running on the sedan ( originally from an Alfa 90) have way more clearance than the benzoni rims that come on the GTV6, and it's almost enough to fit the 305 mm discs with the superlite calipers, but not quite! Anyone been thru this b4? rather not have to shell out for compomotives.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 29, 2009, 07:55:09 PM
it would seem the cheapest/easiest option is to convert to 100 PCD and fit subaru rims. There are any number of s/h compomotive or oz rally rims floating around. some look like man hole covers, but at the end of the day, they are strong and they fit big brakes. converting front is just a matter of drilling 5 new holes in hubs and discs. rear can be done by drilling bigger holes offset and making stepped studs. Fiddly but cheaper than "new" rims or making new shafts with flanges.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: alfagtv152 on April 30, 2009, 02:03:01 PM
Hi Greg,
Sounds a good way to go if you dont have to stick to Alfa wheels.I cant resist!-there is no point in reinventing the wheel if there are already plenty A-round!.
Cheers
Andrew
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 30, 2009, 04:31:05 PM
I took my big brakes to my mate Toms place today. He Rallys a Subaru Imprezza on Compomotive wheels. The 305 mm 147 GTA discs and wilwood superlites fit easily inside the 6 x 15 rims. The answer is simple. just make it 100 PCD and find a set of compomotives.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 14, 2009, 02:23:09 PM
my new rear calipers arrived today from the States, Wilwood IR-GT 4R 's Nice bit of work. The radial mount brackets wont marry up with the Gearbox mounts, but a beefy bit of aluminium angle should easily do the trick. Not much else has happened lately ( bloody work keeps getting in the way) :(
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 07, 2009, 03:32:36 PM
have some pics of car as it stands at the moment. painted the inside this week and it's ready to fit seats,dash,battery and side glass. Took sooo long to move the tank and fit a fire wall around it. But done now and i am pretty happy with the result.  Still in the midst of building the pedal box and hydraulic handbrake. Get them finished this week and installed. Might be about time to pull the gearbox out and see what i can do about gear ratios etc. I am assuming that it is a 4.1:1 ratio diff. That will be ok. I have a spare twin spark gear set to play with. like some feed back on what you guys think is the best 3rd 4th & 5th for a V6. Bearing in mind top speed is not an issue. be happy if it does 180 klicks.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Mat Francis on June 07, 2009, 03:50:08 PM
Looking awesome Greg.

Love these updates.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Jekyll and Hyde on June 07, 2009, 09:58:39 PM
Quote from: redalfaracing on June 07, 2009, 03:32:36 PM
have some pics of car as it stands at the moment. painted the inside this week and it's ready to fit seats,dash,battery and side glass. Took sooo long to move the tank and fit a fire wall around it. But done now and i am pretty happy with the result.  Still in the midst of building the pedal box and hydraulic handbrake. Get them finished this week and installed. Might be about time to pull the gearbox out and see what i can do about gear ratios etc. I am assuming that it is a 4.1:1 ratio diff. That will be ok. I have a spare twin spark gear set to play with. like some feed back on what you guys think is the best 3rd 4th & 5th for a V6. Bearing in mind top speed is not an issue. be happy if it does 180 klicks.

With top speed not an issue, I'd be looking to find a 4.3 final drive, and talk to Hugh at Alfpa Repairs/Monza motors about putting together a close ratio gearset for you.  With such a gearbox, and standard tyre diameter, I was hitting 180km/h no issue at all at Sandown in 4th gear.  Admittedly my motor is revlimited to 7,500, where yours may be limited a bit lower, but I was doing roughly 6,800rpm at 180, and I believe in 5th it was somewhere between 5,000 and 5,500 (only used 5th on a practice lap or two, then realised I wasn't going fast enough to need it!).  Obviously if you are running bigger than standard tyres (I can't remember if you've said) you'll be doing less revs for a given speed, and the extra acceleration of the lower diff ratio would be useful to cancel out some of the weight/gearing effect of the larger tyres - as well as those moments in a rally when you find you've picked too high a gear for the corner....
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 08, 2009, 08:35:07 AM
i have a box with a 4.3:1 diff ratio. 2.875, 1.72, 1.35, 1.13, .946  which works brilliantly in the 2 litre. I am reliably informed that a worked v6 will eventually screw the 4.3:1 pinion gear off the end of the shaft.
I may be tempted to run it with the standard 2.5 but not a modified 3 litre given the trouble i went to to get this one ( bought it from a guy in amsterdam ) maybe i should strip that box down and slot those ratios into the 4.1:1 box and see what happens?

not really wanting to hijack my own thread but i just found a pic of the alfetta in a high speed 4 wheel slide.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Jekyll and Hyde on June 08, 2009, 12:24:50 PM
Quote from: redalfaracing on June 08, 2009, 08:35:07 AM
i have a box with a 4.3:1 diff ratio. 2.875, 1.72, 1.35, 1.13, .946  which works brilliantly in the 2 litre. I am reliably informed that a worked v6 will eventually screw the 4.3:1 pinion gear off the end of the shaft.
I may be tempted to run it with the standard 2.5 but not a modified 3 litre given the trouble i went to to get this one ( bought it from a guy in amsterdam ) maybe i should strip that box down and slot those ratios into the 4.1:1 box and see what happens?

not really wanting to hijack my own thread but i just found a pic of the alfetta in a high speed 4 wheel slide.

If you are doing gravel rallies and not tarmac events, I should think the 4.3 would last perfectly fine, as it won't get the huge torque loadings that can be achieved on a sealed surface.  That said, there are a few pretty hot V6 cars going around running 4.3s for circuit work, and they do last very well.  And to be honest, you can have the same failure with the standard v6 pinion...  4.3 crownwheel pinion sets are getting a little rare but definitely not yet unobtainable in Australia, if that is the part you are most worried about, track yourself down a spare set to keep in the garage, then run the complete gearbox in the 3.0 litre!

Its generally not as straightforward as just swapping gearsets around between boxes, you need to get the shims set up correctly, and sometimes some machining is required to make it all work, so keep that in mind before you start trying to mix and match internals.  The shim setup from inside one casing and on one pinion may not work at all in another casing/on another pinion shaft.....

In other thoughts, that's an impressive 5th gear ratio - one that you'd almost expect to see in a modern six speed gearbox!  Using the gear ratio calculator off here http://www.spannerfodder.com/the_works_escorts-ratios.php (http://www.spannerfodder.com/the_works_escorts-ratios.php) that would see you doing 6,200rpm to hit 180km/h with a standard size tyre.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 08, 2009, 10:03:29 PM
Quote from: Jekyll and Hyde on June 08, 2009, 12:24:50 PM
In other thoughts, that's an impressive 5th gear ratio - one that you'd almost expect to see in a modern six speed gearbox! 

.946 is actually 4th gear from an Alfa 90. when i was building my 2 litre box i doubted very much that i would have the mumbo to pull a .83 5th, so i grafted the .946 to make it a 5th. works a treat!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 19, 2009, 06:17:38 PM
Does anyone know if i can get just the float of the fuel level sender for the GTV6 tank? A good s/h one would be ok. mine is half full of fuel. guess it will read wrong.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 21, 2009, 08:54:26 PM
an update of the project.  Not a lot has happened. Been putting in a lot of reverse cycle split systems though. But, i am having this week off to work on it ( and the new SPAM )
In the last month i have fiddled with the seats, removed all the wiring, and made the pedal box. Finished that today. Pretty happy with the result. Made a new pedal box, used the original pedals with modifications fitted a balance bar, changed the pedal ratio to 6:1 for the brake and the clutch ( lighten the clutch action ). Well have a look and see what you think.
Been making a new loom to marry up with the Haltech engine loom, boy that takes a fair bit of thinking! makes my head hurt. When i pulled the old fuse box out it was a bit melted, lucky the thing still ran.

Still looking for a fuel sender float.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on July 21, 2009, 10:04:25 PM
Nice work, can't wait to see this car.  I'm guessing it won't be at Motorkhana this weekend though?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 22, 2009, 08:36:59 PM
not a chance Sheldon. be at least a couple of months till it is ready to go. i'm a bit time chalanged at the moment. Work, Home reno's, and now planning for PAC's round of the VCRS, the Yakkerboo Trial is in full swing. I am the Clerk of Course and i have to find a few hundred hours between now and Nov 28th. And it comes out of the motorsport allocation of time you know!
Does any one have a spare 90 steering wheel lying around? the momo boss is a great thing to use. not sure i like the GTV6 boss, and it is welded onto the wheel which i want to change anyway. i used a 90 boss on the alfetta rally car and it works well. i am using a 90 column with a concoction of joints and shafts off other cars to move the wheel 60 mm rearward to get a relationship with the pedals that i can live with. Plus i gotta get rid of that ugly rubber joint ( which weighs a ton) just above the rack.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 23, 2009, 09:50:43 PM
today i welded in the seat mounts, tommorrow i plan to make the hydraulic hand brake and fit it. If time permits, i'll have a go at bunging the dash back in. Then it's full steam ahead re-assembling the car.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on September 30, 2009, 08:47:19 PM
Thought i'd give you an update, just in case you were wondering what was happening. Cars is nearly back together. Few finishing touches and still have to get the wiring sorted. Have entered a rally on 18th Oct the Bog a duck sprint rally at Alexandria. Gotta give yourself a deadline or things seem to stall! Using the standard engine 2.5 l for the time being. Ran out of time and money to build the 3l. at this stage. Pretty happy with the result so far. can't wait to let it loose in the forest.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on October 31, 2009, 09:20:15 PM
The GTV6 is now back together and going. missed the Bog-a-duck rally due to wiring difficulties. The Alpine Rally is in 2 weeks and i think i will make it. Pre log book inspection is happening on Thursday evening. Sending my daughter to CAMS on friday with paperwork in hand to get the book and then official scrutiny on Saturday afternoon at Traction tyres in Knoxfield.
Pretty happy with the way it goes , but, i gotta say that the only thing that resembles the Alfetta sedan is the gear change. thought it might feel life home , but it dont. I guess a 3 day rally will be enough time to get to know her.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Fylnn on November 03, 2009, 01:28:33 PM
So what suspension are you running on this car for gravel spec?  Especially the ride height?  I was thinking of running the rear about standard height and jeck the front up 1-2".  Interested in your experiences with the Alfettta, but that would have less weight over the front than the V6.

Cheers

Peter
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on November 03, 2009, 09:09:11 PM
Peter, i have been playing around for the last week and have fitted the pedders springs ( sold as a lift kit for subaru outback) i had on the rear of the alfetta, which lift it about 30 mm. running standard 23 mm torsion bars rotated 20 splines ( about 30 mm) and standard front sway bar. Oh and a set of new bilsteins from Quadrant suspension all round. car was very twitchy at high speed on gravel, in fact flooring it at 4000 rpm in 5th the car tried to go anywhere but straight. removing the rear sway bar fixed that and made it way less taily in corners. I think i will drop the front about 10 mm which may also help keep the front stable and an added bonus of being able to see more road over the bonnet. Suffice to say, she and i are still making friends.
current thinking for gravel cars is to keep spring rates as soft as possible, if it needs stiffening, increase the sway bar. that way tyres are more likely to keep biting all the time.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Fylnn on November 04, 2009, 07:21:48 AM
Greg, interesting, esepcially about the rear sway bar.  Sort of jels with mates who did Escorts and things, let the rear pivot around the front, nice and soft to hopefully bite in.  Can't wait to hear the first event report.  Hope to get mine mobile over Christmas and maybe try it out for myself.  About to drop the engine back in when I get back from overseas.

Keep it coming
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on November 04, 2009, 07:28:27 PM
I found a pic the other day of Greg Carr in i think must have been the 1987 Alpine. I don't have a results list for that event but i know he didn't win.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Evan Bottcher on November 04, 2009, 08:00:37 PM
Are they wearing T-Shirts?  :o
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on November 04, 2009, 08:36:52 PM
Yes Evan, probably shorts too. In those days dress was optional. I must confess i drove a rally in 2004 in shorts and a tee shirt, it was 35 that day. The 2009 alpine requires fia standard driving suit, balaclava,underwear and shoes. only the driver needs to wear gloves. How things change. One would wonder about historic events... the cars are the same, the roads are the same, why change the dress code?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: kenh on November 11, 2009, 01:57:25 PM
Greg,

Hope the car goes great on the weekend at the Alpine.

cheers,

Ken
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on November 11, 2009, 08:33:17 PM
Sorry Ken, had to pull out lost 2 weeks due to the Flu. Just didn't come together in the end. Can't do an Alpine in an under prepared car. There are other Rallys.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on December 20, 2009, 06:21:08 PM
Finally i have had time to give her a polish and get the log book inspection done. Still a 2.5 litre with standard brakes, but that will change hopefully soon. Next job however is to make a light pod to fit on the front panel to house 2 hella predators ( zenon ). the 2 out side lights are h4 and the 2 inside lights are hella spots with zenon kits. surprisingly good beam for a small diameter reflector. some pics for you to view.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on December 20, 2009, 06:24:18 PM
and some more
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: jimnielsen on December 21, 2009, 08:31:07 AM
Great work, love the way you have implemented the brakes and the wiring system.  Do you have any close up photos of the wiring panel - I am planning on a complete rewire of my 155 Q4, your effort looks very compact.

jim ~
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on December 21, 2009, 06:03:51 PM
Thanks Jim, i wanted to keep all the bits that might give trouble in the one spot. Car stops in the middle of a stage at night, thought it would be so handy rather than peering under dash, bonnet etc. already have all the mounting holes for my programable ECU in the plate for when i do the motor change. The bosch unit and the double relay will go, and the haltech and the ignition module will fit in their place. I will take a close up of the electrical panel later on and post it.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: alfagtv58 on December 22, 2009, 08:34:51 AM
Greg, the car is looking fantastic....I love it!!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on December 22, 2009, 07:11:48 PM
Thanks Phil, you know talking to you and Barry at that CAMS night at sandow race course last year inspired me to finally build my dream car.

But it's not finished yet. Keep an eye on it over the next couple of months. Got big plans for it!!! ;)

The log book paperwork went through at CAMS today. Talk about cutting it fine. They close for the year at noon tomorrow. Next year the cage won't comply any more. It would need that bar from the top of the "A" pillar , vertically down. How do you reckon you would get in and out of it. Another dumb CAMS regulation. The sooner CAMS board gets spilled the better , then we can get some regulations that promote grass roots motorsport instead of imposing FIA standards willy nilly and driving mum,dad and kids competitors away!

I'll get of the soap box now.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on December 22, 2009, 08:43:54 PM
Jim, here is a close up of the electrical panel. The standard engine loom will allow you to mount everything here with a bit of work. no wires need to be cut, just the sleeving.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on December 24, 2009, 05:00:54 PM
The log book arrived express post from CAMS today. That was great service from Victoria.  :)

So, now no excuse not to go rallying!!

Hope to get a run in the George Woods.

See you there Mat??? Have some s/h tyres for you.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Mat Francis on December 24, 2009, 05:20:36 PM
Yes, so far still looking good Greg. Progress slowed a little last week but that was to be expected. Another trip through the twisties to your place? Gee that's a shame...


Oh, and where abouts should i be looking for the entry form, etc?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on December 25, 2009, 10:37:31 AM
                                        We wish you a merry christmas and a happy new year.May Santa bring your pressies in an Alfa powered sleigh.


Quote from: Mat Francis on December 24, 2009, 05:20:36 PM
Oh, and where abouts should i be looking for the entry form, etc?

Mat, when the sup regs and entry form comes out i'll email it to you.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 03, 2010, 08:06:41 PM
Happy new year to you all.


Has anyone been down the single tail shaft road?

I have done a bit of home work on it. From the posts on all the alfa forums it seems that if you put a single tail shaft in with uni's you get some? engine vibration resonating from the tail shaft. I understand that perhaps if the tail shaft is carbon fibre that it will be minimal to negligable.

So, i have hunted for composite tail shafts. There apears to be a crowd in California that will manufacture to your requirements for around $2k. I can think of a lot of things that $2k will buy!

I stumbled upon a shaft from a production car that will be a perfect fit.

To fit the shaft with the uni's i need a different flange for the gear box. Before i go tromping round the wreckers comparing diff flanges, does anyone know of a four bolt flange that will fit on the clutch shaft of the transaxle. Does a 105 have a 4 bolt flange on its diff and does it fit the spline on a gtv6 clutch shaft?

The front yoke i will leave on the shaft and have a splined shaft made with a 3 bolt flange that will mate up with the 3 bolts on the v6 flywheel.

BTW, the new shaft weighs in at less than 6 kg. The gtv6 shaft with donuts weighs around 13 kg. Big difference in rotational mass!

som pics for you to check out.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: jimnielsen on January 03, 2010, 09:56:03 PM
Brilliant - what car is the tailshaft from? I had Beninca's make me up a two piece 'doughnutless' shaft, that was also much lighter than the original. It was 3.5k including a steel flywheel to suit. The flywheel connected to the driveshaft with a simple commodore CV joint - uni joint and flange to join to the gearbox.... Its on Hammers Giulietta now..Using a CV joint is good because they (a) have enough lateral stretch to enable removal of the entire shaft from the car without touching the engine or the gearbox and (b) don't require precise alignment of the engine and gearbox.

jim ~
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: MD on January 04, 2010, 09:40:32 AM
Greg,

Here's one solution I use at the clutch end that includes a slip joint to allow easy removal of the shaft as described by Jim. The centre locating hole size is important to match the size of the input shaft spigot. Likewise this reduces alignment issues to a small degree. Having said that, if you dont get the alignments true, ultimately the propshaft will flog the nose piece of the clutch housing to destruction- just ask me...

BTW If you don't use a rubber coupling at the engine end, the hammering noise down the shaft under 1800rpm could drive you nuts.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: hammer on January 04, 2010, 01:11:31 PM
Greg,

Just for the sake of my curious mind, did the California crowd give any indication of the weight of the carbon shaft?

Cheers,

Brent
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: jimnielsen on January 04, 2010, 05:08:48 PM
An implementation of a single piece drive shaft in Stainless Steel in an Alfa 75. (in my post above I meant that the shaft cost $3500. It didn't weigh 3.5kg...)

jim~
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: MD on January 04, 2010, 06:21:50 PM
Jim,

That shaft appears to be a couple of hundred mm shorter than standard but it's very hard to be definitive about that figure just by looking at the photos. Do we know how long it really is by any chance?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: jimnielsen on January 04, 2010, 07:10:07 PM
No, I don't know, but it is shorter. The engine is moved backwards into the car body a little but the 116 type transaxle is still in the normal position.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 04, 2010, 09:27:16 PM
The shaft is out of a Mazda RX8. The manual has a composite shaft, the auto has a steel shaft. The deal is that they are an unservicable item. Mazda say that the uni's can't be replaced. so, throw the shaft away. How much as a genuine part i hear you ask? $1900 list, trade $1760. I got mine from the states for about $200 landed. Second hand from a wrecker but uni's are ok. I know a bloke who fixes Sprinter tail shafts. built exactly the same way. Fiddly, but possible. I thought the 200 bucks was a good deal for a composite shaft. I reason if it can handle the grunt and rpm of a turbo rotary it can put up with the output of a V6 Alfa.

Interesting rear flange mod MD. last resort,  i still want to try to find a 4 bolt flange that will fit the clutch input shaft. I hear what you say about the donut at the front. Has anyone actually fitted a composite shaft with no donut at the front. If not, i am thinking someones gotta try it out to see what happens. For the sake of a splined shaft and a plate i'm willing to test the theory that the composite shaft wont have the same resonance issues as a steel one. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Jekyll and Hyde on January 04, 2010, 10:25:37 PM
Quote from: redalfaracing on January 04, 2010, 09:27:16 PM
The shaft is out of a Mazda RX8. The manual has a composite shaft, the auto has a steel shaft. The deal is that they are an unservicable item. Mazda say that the uni's can't be replaced. so, throw the shaft away. How much as a genuine part i hear you ask? $1900 list, trade $1760. I got mine from the states for about $200 landed. Second hand from a wrecker but uni's are ok. I know a bloke who fixes Sprinter tail shafts. built exactly the same way. Fiddly, but possible. I thought the 200 bucks was a good deal for a composite shaft. I reason if it can handle the grunt and rpm of a turbo rotary it can put up with the output of a V6 Alfa.

I didn't think RX-8s were turbo?  I assume you've been researching among the guys who've done turbo conversions to their RX-8s though....  As standard, the only gear an RX-8 will put more torque through the tailshaft than a 3 litre alfa V6 is 1st (due to their ridculously short 1st gear and short diff ratio), but the tailshaft is spinning at half the speed it would in an Alfa....

Interesting move though, will be paying attention (and committing RX-8 tailshafts to memory for other projects that mates have on the go).  Out of curiousity, how long is that tailshaft?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: MD on January 04, 2010, 11:10:30 PM
Greg,

My gut feeling is that the composite shaft wont create the hammering noises without a rubber coupler. At worst, the amplitude of the noise will probably just blend into the exhaust noise. As long as there was a fitting that allowed the engine to move about the mounts that's all you would likely need. Either a CV or a UV would do. Having said that, a rubber coupling would be much more gentle on the composite shaft and may help to prevent delamination. Just a thought.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 05, 2010, 06:44:06 AM
Apparently the equation to work out the dimensions of a tail shaft is torque x rpm x length or something like that. The rx8 is good for 12000 rpm at the engine. multiply that through the 6 speed ( i think 5th and 6th are both overdrives. technicaly it could be doing more than 12000 given a long enough piece of road.

carbon fibre is incredibly strong but brittle. put real hp thruogh it but dont hit it with a hammer!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Jekyll and Hyde on January 05, 2010, 10:05:42 AM
Quote from: redalfaracing on January 05, 2010, 06:44:06 AM
Apparently the equation to work out the dimensions of a tail shaft is torque x rpm x length or something like that. The rx8 is good for 12000 rpm at the engine. multiply that through the 6 speed ( i think 5th and 6th are both overdrives. technicaly it could be doing more than 12000 given a long enough piece of road.

carbon fibre is incredibly strong but brittle. put real hp thruogh it but dont hit it with a hammer!

When I had a look yesterday, Mazda USA's website stated 9,000rpm redline.....  In 6th gear the tailshaft will be doing 11300 rpm at redline.  BUT since that is 6th gear, effective peak torque (at 5,500 engine rpm, 7,000 shaft rpm) coming through the shaft is 811nm (and obviously dropping away somewhat from there).

A 3.0 litre alfa V6 has 250nm at 3,000rpm standard.  Ignoring the fact that you'll likely end up with hot cams etc, increasing your peak torque and the revs its found at, if we say that at 7,000 rpm its lost 100nm (Possible on a standard 3.0, but you'd have to check a dyno sheet).  In 3rd gear, with the gearbox you mentioned earlier, you are still putting 870nm through that tailshaft at 7,000rpm.  In 2nd, 1110nm, in first gear 1854nm - all at 7,000 rpm.

If you were to assume that you still have 200nm available at 7,000rpm (seems entirely possible with raised comp, big cams and headwork), then in 5th gear you are still putting more torque through at 7,000rpm than it will ever see in the RX-8 with those rpm (depending on actual torque in an RX-8 at 7,000rpm, 5th gear is 1:1 and may squeeze a bit more torque through at that point).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its going to break - I'm sure that Mazda would have built an enormous safety factor into it.  Just making a point that just because the RX-8 spins fast, doesn't mean its tailshaft is necessarily transmitting any more torque when it reaches the speed of an Alfa tailshaft....

Although, your last comment sort of seems to be of concern considering its a rally car - is the tailshaft having a stone guard, and/or is the shaft any more likely to be buggered by a large chunk of rock striking it than a standard one?

Still interested to know the length of that tailshaft too, I'm wondering if I can fit it to one or two 'normal' rwd cars I'm involved in....
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: MD on January 05, 2010, 12:32:11 PM
About 5-6 years ago there was a guy in the US who was racing a GTV6 with a one piece carbon fibre drive shaft with complete success. Regrettably, I have lost the link. So yes it has been done before that's for sure.What should not be overlooked is the improved engine wind up rate due to less mass and some minor hp gains as well if combined with light flywheels etc.

For rally work, a guard would obviously make sense like it does for the sump.

Those numbers look interesting Jekyll.

BTW, the shaft I am referring to above was a one piece of the original length which from memory is around 1420-1430mm or thereabouts on the sedan whislt the coupe it's about 100mm or so shorter due to the wheelbase differences.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Jekyll and Hyde on January 05, 2010, 03:24:01 PM
Quote from: MD on January 05, 2010, 12:32:11 PM
About 5-6 years ago there was a guy in the US who was racing a GTV6 with a one piece carbon fibre drive shaft with complete success. Regrettably, I have lost the link. So yes it has been done before that's for sure.What should not be overlooked is the improved engine wind up rate due to less mass and some minor hp gains as well if combined with light flywheels etc.

If Greg can get it working with none of the typical uni joint rattle, I'll stick one in mine for sure - losing 7 more kilos out of my driveline would be quite nice, and save me replacing donuts... Although I haven't YET had one wear out, its only a matter of time...
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: MD on January 05, 2010, 04:50:06 PM
Here's the US company that makes 'em.

http://www.acpt.com/index.html (http://www.acpt.com/index.html)

I should have mentioned this earlier but having a one piece shaft may necessitate the use of a modified shifter that is inside the cabin much like the one being installed in the car photos Jim supplied earlier.

The business end of the shifter could be one of these as per photo.

Obviously the application would generally only apply to race or rally cars.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 05, 2010, 06:51:30 PM
Yes, the stated red line is 9000, the engine is good to 12000 and the raceing rx8's regulary pull it. There is a supercharged rx8 in NSW that reportedly has 400 rwkw. Not sure if it runs the standard tailshaft though. These rx8's get flogged just like Alfas and i haven't come across any evidence that tail shafts give way.

The dimensions of the tail shaft is as follows; overal length 1270mm, centre of uni to center of uni 1078 mm, center of rear uni to face of rear flange 42mm, center of front uni to end of yoke 150. diameter of shaft 75 mm

I am thinking a shaft with the matching spline to the yoke, with a machined end to interference fit into the spigot hole in the end of the crank, with a triangular plate, bolted to the donut bolts ( would need to be shortened) also with the same spline. If there were a shoulder on the shaft in the appropriate place behind the plate, the three bolts would hold the plate and shaft in place and provide the drive as they do through the donut.

The shifter would have to be relocated from the tunnel obviously. I have been playing with a Magna shifter that uses 2 cables. One benefit of using cables and not rods is that the orientation of the shifter can be altered to favour right hand drive. How many people have hopped in an Alfa for the first time and gone from 1st to 4th? rotating the shifting gate will make it less difficult to find 2nd.

I do not have a sump guard yet, but it is definatly comming. extending it to cover the tail shaft is simple. It only needs to be 2.5 mm alloy to deflect the odd yonnie thrown by the front wheels. The sump guard will be 6 mm as some of the rally roads have lumps of rock sticking out. Having said that, i never had a sump guard on the 2l Alfetta, I have been pretty successful at driving around all the bitey things sticking out of the road so far.

One reason for going donut-less is to eliminate the risk of one giving way and causing a dnf. One giving way on a circuit car would be annoying, but you aren't far from the pitts and you can have it fixed b4 the next heat. Do one early in a rally and you miss 3 or 4 hrs of driving. I have dnf'ed early in a rally and immensly dislike sitting on the boot of the dead car, watching the procession of other competitors for hours.

Love to hear from a 105 owner re diff flange, Does it fit the transaxle. posts on other forums seem to indicate that some parts are interchangable between 105 and 116 drive lines.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on January 05, 2010, 08:30:25 PM
I think I can speak for many transaxle track drivers here and say that I am very interested in this tailshaft project.  As you say, it's only a matter of time till the donuts give way.....

As an aside, is that gear knob on the xtrac box up there one of those bungs they put on the side of racebikes to protect the fairings?  Probably not, but looks very similar.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 05, 2010, 09:13:45 PM
Here is a link to a crowd that supplies supercharger kits for rx8s.  Claim 100 more hp and 70lt/lb torque more with 5-8 psi boost. also plug and play.. no other mods ( inc tailshaft) 

http://www.pettitracing.co.uk/supercharger.html


There must be a lot of safety factor built in i think as you say Jekyll & Hyde
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 07, 2010, 09:21:43 PM
Quote from: redalfaracing on January 05, 2010, 06:51:30 PM
Love to hear from a 105 owner re diff flange, Does it fit the transaxle. posts on other forums seem to indicate that some parts are interchangable between 105 and 116 drive lines.

Searching for 105 driveshafts got me this pdf file which shows Alfa driveshafts with uni's and donuts.
Can someone on this forum please enlighten me on what bit goes where on a 105, and if they are intechangable with a 116? never having looked under a 105 i have no idea what makes them tick.

Otherwise its off to hardy spicer to see if any one there knows about Alfa tailshafts.

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: MD on January 07, 2010, 10:03:30 PM
Greg,

It's been a long time since I have had the bean bag under the 105 chassis but from what I can remember the 105 tailshaft has the donut up front with the uni at the rear coupling up to the dif. I couldn't say if the PCD of the donut would fit an Alfetta. I doubt it. I know the tailshaft definitely will not as it is way too short.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: pep105 on January 07, 2010, 10:19:13 PM
Greg,
MDs on the ball, donut up front at the gearbox and uni at the diff end, Ive got a 105 2 lt complete tailshaft in the garage, if you want photos or PCD measurements of the flange or donut let me know, or if your local more than welcome to come and check it out. Im on the other side of the fence been a few years since ive been under a 116. 
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 08, 2010, 02:25:14 PM
Pep, i am more interested if the diff flange will fit the clutch shaft on a 116. Also if the uni cups will fit the Mazda shaft. The Mazda uni cups appear to be 24mm diameter.

If i can use the rear diff flange and rear tail shaft flange off a 105 then all i have to work on is the front adapter.

There is mention of 8 mm and 9 mm bolt flanges. Is the difference just the bolt size, or is the flange beefier too?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 11, 2010, 05:05:35 PM
Quote from: pep105 on January 07, 2010, 10:19:13 PM
Ive got a 105 2 lt complete tailshaft in the garage, if you want photos or PCD measurements of the flange or donut let me know, or if your local more than welcome to come and check it out.

I called into Hardy Spicers today to talk tailshafts. I spoke to a guy named Matthew Pratt who appeared to know his stuff. They have the tooling to replace the staked uni joints, and claim better that oem strength. They have an Alfa uni joint kit in their catalogue part number K5-A532 that has 24 mm cups, but the catalogue doesn't have the model it comes from.

So where i am now, is i need to view a 105 tailshaft and diff flange. I am hoping that this K5-A532 uni is out of that joint and that that flange fits the GTV6 clutch shaft. I am in outer se melb . Anyone close that may have those bits out of a car?

I was thinking of bringing the GTV6 to the BBQ on Wednesday. Maybe some one attending that could bring one to look at? I will bring the RX8 shaft and a clutch shaft.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: pep105 on January 12, 2010, 01:35:18 AM
Greg,
Im in Maribyrnong so not near you but I work in Port Melb so if you like Ill bring the tailshaft to work and maybe you could swing past prior to the BBQ on Wednesday ? does that help ?
Sorry havent measured the uni cups yet been flat chat. Will try tommorrow
Let me know PM if you prefer or 0402 355 075

 
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: pep105 on January 12, 2010, 01:36:51 PM
Greg,

Uni Cup diameter is 24 mm (using my sophisticated measuring equipment  ;D CMM  ;) )

Tailshaft Flange PCD is 4 x 75 mm, probably not of interest to you as youll use the 105 diff flange

Hope this helps

Pep

P.S By the way only issue is dont have a diff flange for you to see out of the car
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 12, 2010, 09:46:13 PM
Thanks Pep, I will be stretched to get away from work in time as it is, probaby won't have time to visit you in Port Melbourne as well. Happy to hear that it is 24 mm though.



Assuming that the 105 rear diff flange and uni will fit, does anyone have an opinion as to whether it will take, say 250 hp?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 16, 2010, 09:36:58 PM
And so it has finally come to pass.

I have been watching the discussion about "Club Rally Cars". Tonight i have searched around CAMS and found the attached file in the 2010 CAMS Manual of Motorsport.

Basically it means i can put a 3.0 litre 24 valve engine in my GTV6 and run in all road events excepting national and international events.

I could even use a 3.2 GTA engine if i could find one! (at a reasonable cost)

So, i have bought a 3.0l 24v  engine from a 166, pick it up in a couple of weeks.

Love to hear from anyone who has fitted a 24v to a GTV6, things to look out for,etc.


FUN TO BE HAD!!!!!!   :)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 16, 2010, 10:16:57 PM
And, looking at the 2010 PRC regulations, forest flares are now legal and replacement bolt on panels in composite or aluminium.

might be an interesting year for rally!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 18, 2010, 09:55:55 PM
can anyone tell me if the 3.2 gta cams are different to the 3.0 24v cams, and are they interchangable?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Jekyll and Hyde on January 19, 2010, 08:43:21 PM
Quote from: redalfaracing on January 18, 2010, 09:55:55 PM
can anyone tell me if the 3.2 gta cams are different to the 3.0 24v cams, and are they interchangable?

Only the inlet cams are different, exhaust cams are the same but timed slightly differently.  And yes, GTA inlet cams will go into a 3.0.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 19, 2010, 10:14:54 PM
Quote from: Jekyll and Hyde on January 19, 2010, 08:43:21 PM
Only the inlet cams are different, exhaust cams are the same but timed slightly differently.  And yes, GTA inlet cams will go into a 3.0.

Thanks Jekyll and Hyde, and would the difference in performance make it worth the effort or are there better cams available? Bearing in mind i am not after fire breathing top end performance, just a good power spread that revs out cleanly.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Jekyll and Hyde on January 19, 2010, 10:48:15 PM
Don't know how much power increase you would expect if running an aftermarket computer.  I think the guys that have done this (usually in 916 series GTVs) would be lucky to see 10kw at the wheels with rechipping - check around the UK forums for details.

I've been looking at Newman cams for mine, they have a range of 'fast road' cams on offer at about 600 pounds a cam  :o.  Colombo and Bariani also do various cams for the 24v, but at a much higher price.  Just at the moment, I may get shot on sight by certain individuals around here if I were to spend $2500 on cams for mine, so its a good thing I haven't yet managed to talk myself into it.  As such, no useful information on these offerings..... yet.

To be honest though, from memory you were pretty happy with the amount of power when you took the 2.5 12v for a squirt, and with a 3.0 24v on board running an aftermarket ECU you will have close to double the power and a huge increase in torque and rev range. 

  If I were you, I'd just focus on getting the engine in and running first, then if you reckon you need more power deal with it at that stage.  It's not too hard to get at the heads when fitted into a GTV, so swapping camshafts would be easy later on... And having looked very carefully at the heads on mine when it was apart, I doubt you'd get any huge gains from porting without a serious amount of other work going on - they are very well designed from the factory, and I believe shouldn't hamper a performance camshaft to any great extent if at all.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 20, 2010, 03:00:32 PM
Great advice, i am going to spend my time getting the composite tailshaft and 24v engine up and running. Although if i happen to chance upon some GTA inlet cams b4 the engine goes in, i will fit them. so much easier on the engine stand than bending over the engine bay. Don't you think?

Going to Sydney next week to pick up the 24v engine and a Corolla shell for another rally guy. will have an empty car trailer on the way up if someone wants anything delivered to Sydney for a share of the fuel, let me know.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 24, 2010, 10:28:21 AM
wondering if this 24v engine will have a dual mass flywheel fitted as standard ( from a 2003 166) and do these flywheels have a history of failing , or are they a reliable thing? I know the Subaru RS that ran a rally series had them as standard, they gave so much trouble they had to change the series rules to allow them to be changed to a solid flywheel. Are the Alfa ones rubbish ? or built better? Any one know?

Thanks Greg
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Fylnn on January 28, 2010, 09:53:55 AM
Greg,

Just in the process of running the fuel system in my PRC GTV6.  I was going to put the fuel pump with a lift pump and surge tank in the boot and pipe it through the cabin.  But I just noticed the fabulous new rules for fuel pipes in Schedule R of the CAMS manual, and it has to be 70 bar braided line and crimp, threaded or whatever connectors.  This means all new pumps, tanks, filters and incredibly expensive hoses.  Probably $2K without even thinking about it.

I assume from the photos you are running the standard fuel flow-return system with fuel lines, pump and filter under the car.  Is that correct?  Part of me says it is a bit vulnerable but has survived 25 years and if retain original system then lots cheaper.

Peter
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: david sammartino on January 28, 2010, 07:59:04 PM
 "( from a 2003 166)", to answer your comment id say that the 166 was more than likely an automatic car so wouldnt have a dual mass flywheel.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 30, 2010, 08:33:49 PM
Quote from: Fylnn on January 28, 2010, 09:53:55 AM
I assume from the photos you are running the standard fuel flow-return system with fuel lines, pump and filter under the car.  Is that correct?  Part of me says it is a bit vulnerable but has survived 25 years and if retain original system then lots cheaper.

Peter, no i am not running standard fuel system. I wasn't happy about fuel thingys dangling below the car. My GTV6 had the battery in the rear. At first i was going to remove the battery box to save a few kg's, but then i thought it would be a great place to hide the surge tank, pump and filter. if you look at the pic you will notice a vapour proof cover on the old battery box, with some pipes and a cable conduit coming from the LHS. New system works flawlessly.

I am not up to speed with schedule r in the new manual. i was led to believe that if there are no joins in the fuel line in the cabin of the car, as long as it is adequately protected ( wrapped with say, hydraulic hose wrapping) what i have done is ok. I will check with a scruitineer though. Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 30, 2010, 08:36:25 PM
Quote from: david sammartino on January 28, 2010, 07:59:04 PM
"( from a 2003 166)", to answer your comment id say that the 166 was more than likely an automatic car so wouldnt have a dual mass flywheel.

David, have picked up the new engine, and you are correct. Just a drive plate for an auto.
I have to say, engine looks a serious bit of gear. just have to get it out of the ute tomorrow and have a decent look at it.

Keep you posted.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 30, 2010, 09:23:20 PM
Peter, from my friend Dale ( scruutineer level 3) no need for the stuff you were talking about unless you are doing FIA events. New from last year, allowed to have bulkhead joiners ( previously banned) rubber braided hoses and steel bundy tube ok but must be well clipped ( no rubbing on metal fittings or panels) and pressure side must have hose clamps not clips. Spend your $2k on something else you need.

hope that allays your fears.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on January 30, 2010, 09:54:09 PM
g'day greg,
congrats on the build, i only just read the whole thread and its great to see a rally car project for a change..  ;D
that gtv6 looks suspiciously like my old car..did you buy it from a chap in melbourne who usually has several alfas hanging around (his name escapes me right now...)

can i ask, are the rear springs from the 96 to 98 outbacks (thats the only one showing a raised spring in their catalog..)? if so, what spring rate do you think they are? are they a direct fit? thx

looking forward to some action shots,,
cheers, martin


Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 31, 2010, 01:11:50 PM
Quote from: 116gtv on January 30, 2010, 09:54:09 PM
that gtv6 looks suspiciously like my old car

G'day Martin, I know it came from NSW. vin no ZAR116C00 03003168 If that helps you identify it. If it is your old car, would love to have some history of it.

Quote from: 116gtv on January 30, 2010, 09:54:09 PM
can i ask, are the rear springs from the 96 to 98 outbacks (thats the only one showing a raised spring in their catalog..)? if so, what spring rate do you think they are? are they a direct fit? thx

I know they fit subaru outback and ford maverick, not sure of the year. raise the rear around 30 mm and are slightly stiffer than standard 79 alfetta springs. can't give you any figures, it was a suck it and see job, that i think works really well. They fit straight in. coils are about 5mm bigger in diameter which does not seem to be an issue.


Looking forward to some action myself!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on January 31, 2010, 11:02:36 PM
Dont have any paperwork handy Greg but i'm pretty sure it is.. I sold it sometime last year to Nick in Melbourne (remembered his name). cant really tell you much about it.. got it from a mate a couple of years ago who had it sitting for quite some time after he had a bit of mechanical work done. I did the rear rotors/pads and timing belt just before i sold it. left the covers in the boot so you may want to throw them back on to avoid crap getting stuck in there, considering its a rally car... ;) it was leaking water into the passenger foot well btw, that's all i can remember..
thx for the info on the springs, i'll check them out... i assume they are on the car when you took the photos in this thread?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on February 01, 2010, 01:07:43 PM
out of interest, can you get historic plates for a car less than 30 years old in Vic?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 02, 2010, 08:26:36 PM
Martin, that would be the car. Bought it off Nick. Good to haer the timing belt has been done recently.
Have to ask you though, who did the rust repair on the front guards behind the front wheels? 1/2 kg of bog and copious amounts of corrugated cardboard on either side. wasn't a pretty sight! i have put eb spares replacement panels on and job looks great now.


In Victoria, a car can have historic permit after 25 years. Very limited use, but about (when?) to get 90 day logbooks.

Greg
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on February 04, 2010, 11:27:27 AM
Greg, that "repair" was done by the PPO I believe. Any dates yet on your first outing?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 08, 2010, 05:58:39 PM
Martin, going to have a stab at Challenge of Clubs on Labor Day weekend, March 6,7 & 8. Motorkhana on Saturday at Ballarat Airport, Trial on Saturday night out of the Ballan Racecourse, and a Twilight Autocross on Sunday also at Ballarat Airport. Good try out for a newly prepared car. Any problems are bound to be obvious after that workout. Keep you posted.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 14, 2010, 11:22:08 PM
Finally got the 24 valve home today, ( been next door, as he has a fork lift and i don't. Needed to extricate it from the back of the hilux)

Had a good stare at it. Anyone know what the module on the inlet plemum does? seems the loom from the car plugs into the upper plug, and all the engine electrics come off the lower plug.

possibly don't need it as i am using an E11 V2 ecu. But maybe i do if it is an ignition module.

Let the fun begin.

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: david sammartino on February 15, 2010, 12:12:03 AM
That would be the ecu on the plenum.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 15, 2010, 08:23:41 PM
David, i wish you were right, but all the info i have states it is a bosch mpi ecu and this module is clearly manufactured by Hitachi. i have googled all the numbers i can read on it and no definitive answer. i would think an ecu for this engine would be a tad chunkier than this slim module. take a look.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Jekyll and Hyde on February 15, 2010, 09:42:43 PM
Quote from: redalfaracing on February 15, 2010, 08:23:41 PM
David, i wish you were right, but all the info i have states it is a bosch mpi ecu and this module is clearly manufactured by Hitachi. i have googled all the numbers i can read on it and no definitive answer. i would think an ecu for this engine would be a tad chunkier than this slim module. take a look.

David is 100% correct.  That is the engine ECU.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: david sammartino on February 15, 2010, 11:30:15 PM
Thats correct, it is definately the ecu. You can thank modern technology for the size of it and considering its function. Not to mention where its located, pretty good in my view, makes the wiring very neat indeed.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 16, 2010, 07:34:02 PM
Thanks David, sorry i doubted you. I must say i am surprised by the size of the thing. i am guessing by the number of wires going between the engine and the car that there are some other modules buried under the dash etc which link to this one, considering the GTV6 ecu only sends about 5 wires back to the car loom.

Anyone have a comprehensive wiring diagram of one of these cars? I bought a cd on the 166 on ebay, but it seems a bit scant on information.

Would it be fair to say that the coils have a built in ignitor ,as 3 wires go to each coil?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Jekyll and Hyde on February 16, 2010, 09:43:56 PM
Quote from: redalfaracing on February 16, 2010, 07:34:02 PM
Thanks David, sorry i doubted you. I must say i am surprised by the size of the thing. i am guessing by the number of wires going between the engine and the car that there are some other modules buried under the dash etc which link to this one, considering the GTV6 ecu only sends about 5 wires back to the car loom.

Anyone have a comprehensive wiring diagram of one of these cars? I bought a cd on the 166 on ebay, but it seems a bit scant on information.

Would it be fair to say that the coils have a built in ignitor ,as 3 wires go to each coil?

Not at all.  The coils are the same as on a 164 24v, which has two 7 pin modules to drive them.  The three wires on the coil packs are power, earth, and trigger.  The 7 wires on the 164 modules are 1 earth, 3 back to the ecu and 3 out to the coils.  When a 164 24v loses its cam sensor for any reason, it fires one circuit on each module simultaneously and runs in wasted spark mode - which is how I have mine set up...
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 05, 2010, 08:53:52 PM
I got my mk1 engine to rx8 tailshaft coupling from the machine guy ( Tom ) this week. he is a wizard! pic below. being a bit busy prepping the car for tomorrow nights rally to do any other work on the conversion. Put some pics up of her ready to rock and roll.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 05, 2010, 08:57:14 PM
And some more pics
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on March 05, 2010, 09:07:26 PM
Oh man, that looks like so much fun.  A few questions if you don't mind.....

Who did the roll cage?
How does the handbrake work exactly?
What do those tyres cost?
Where do you get them?

Apologies if you've addressed these questions somewhere in the previous 10 pages.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 05, 2010, 09:21:51 PM
Quote from: Sheldon Mcintosh on March 05, 2010, 09:07:26 PM
Oh man, that looks like so much fun.  A few questions if you don't mind.....

Who did the roll cage?
How does the handbrake work exactly?
What do those tyres cost?
Where do you get them?

Apologies if you've addressed these questions somewhere in the previous 10 pages.


Yep, best fun you can have sitting down, and this car should do the business quite well. If i can do half of what Greg Carr achieved, i'll die a happy man.

Rai Curry from Fabraications in Braeside did the cage. I am super happy with it.

Handbrake is plumbed inline to the rear discs. Push the handle and it closes off the line to the master cylinder and pressurises the rear calipers only. You gotta agree you can't lock up the rears with the half arsed mechanical thing. With this jigger you can lock up on bitumen at 160 k's if you want to.

Those tyres cost around $250 new. these are all second hand ones. paid $300 for 6.
All competition tyre joints have them. Traction tyres for yokahama, Stuckeys for bridgestone. etc
I have yokahamas ao35 195/65/15 30's on the front. these have been hand cut by Pedders rally team years ago. i came by them in a shed clean out.
I have silverstones on the rear. never used them b4, hear they might not be so good? I'll tell you how they work on monday.

You only need 5 mins in one of these cars to get hooked :)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 08, 2010, 12:50:51 PM
What a weapon! Had a great weekend. Given the conditions ( torrential rain and hail) The GTV6 ran faultlessly. 4th outright in it's shakedown event is a fantastic result. And the autocross on the sunday was the best fun. 1.2 k's of sand track, kept it on the rev limiter in 2nd gear for most of it. Unfortunately dislodged 1 witches hat, which cost me 5 seconds. Took me from about 8th outright to 15th outright.

unofficial results


TRIAL A

O/R Crew Car POINTS
1 Andrew Bell/Ari Paterson Holden Commodore 4:56
2 Simon Ellis/Ian Ellis Subaru Legacy RS 7:35
3 Keith Cuttle/Sandra Cuttle Holden Commodore VC 11:52
4 Michael Bansagi/Peter Agrotis Datsun 1200 14:45
4 Greg Wyatt/Stuart Diggins Alfa Romeo Alfetta 14:45
6 Mark Roberts/Phillip Wilson Datsun 200B SSS 15:29
7 Ben McKee/Damian Faulkner Ford Escort Mk2 15:36
8 Daniel Fynch/Gerard Blum Mazda 323 GTX 15:56
9 Zac Edwards/Tim McGill Peugeot 505 16:29
10 Sean Hudgson/Grant Heywood Datsun 1600 16:34
11 Peter Morrison/Susan Wasson Hyundai Excel 19:29
12 Adrian Johns/David Johns Mitsubishi Galant 20:27
13 Paul Williams/Jeremy Egan Toyota Levin TE27 21:23
14 Daniel Rossi/Simon Rowland Chrysler Lancer 21:24
15 Daniel Kierce/Kate Meyer Datsun 1600 21:41
16 David Lawrance/Darren Davison Datsun 1600 22:57
17 Stephen Richards/Michael Kay Ford Escort Mk2 23:10
18 Dale Allan/Joann Roper Datsun 240K 25:18
19 Matt Barr/Mark Burnett Hyundai Excel 26:25
20 Lachlan Smith/Simon Ilsley Ford Escort 27:43
21 Peter Parry/Ian Crook Hyundai Excel 31:13
22 Rod Greenwood/Paul Mahony Toyota Sprinter 43:42
2 Major Controls Missed
23 Andrew Daniell/Kain Manning Datsun 1600 22:42
3 Major Controls Missed
24 Cary Seabrook/Tyler Seabrook Datsun Stanza 14:54
Did not finish the event
Steve Porter/Kimberley Woods Mazda RX7 DNF(C8) No
reason given
John Patterson/Rachel Patterson Datsun 180B DNF(C5) No
reason given
Angela Bloomfield/Adam Bloomfield Holden Commodore
V8 DNF(T4) Windscreen wipers
Graeme Hurle/Elizabeth Kidgell Ford Escort DNF(C3) No
reason given
Richard Gay/Correne Seabrook Mitsubishi
Sigma DNF(C3) Oil filter seal
Wayne Webb/Ashli Webb Datsun 1600 DNF(C3) Rolled

TRIAL B
O/R Crew Car POINTS
1 Chas Mammi/Michael Mammi Datsun Sunny 17
2 Jade Lawson/Kevin Johnston Subaru WRX 18
3 Duncan Elliot/Zarny Tran Toyota Corolla 22
4 Andrew Wallis/Tim Sanders Toyota T18 25
5 Ian Fulton/Peter Fulton Holden Kingswood HQ 27
6 Stuart Stevenson/Daniel Stevenson Subaru Leone 30
7 Robin Birchall/Kylie Thorpe Datsun 1600 31
8 Michelle Shadwick/Les Shadwick Holden Astra 46
Did not finish the event
Matthew Francis/James Gray Alfa Romeo
Alfetta DNF(C5) No reason given
Graham Wallis/Richard Davies Peugeot 405Ti DNF(T4) Exhaust
Elizabeth Gilhome/Simon Francis Holden Gemini DNF(T1) No
reason given
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on March 09, 2010, 11:20:28 AM
Congrats Greg - glad to hear all went so well!  :)

How do you deal with cleaning all the sand/mud from underneath - high pressure cleaner?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on March 09, 2010, 12:14:33 PM
well done do you know what happened to matt
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 09, 2010, 09:13:59 PM
Quote from: 116gtv on March 09, 2010, 11:20:28 AM
How do you deal with cleaning all the sand/mud from underneath - high pressure cleaner?

Martin, Thanks for the positive comments. Don't you wish you still owned it?
Drove it down to Pakenham Monday morning, ran thru every puddle on the way. poured a pocket full of gold coins into the BP car wash and left a lot lighter and much cleaner. The BP is good as the pressure washer there has a rubber section in the wand that can be bent around under the guards etc. Found a few rally guys to have a coffee with, then drove home the long way to dry it off b4 i hit the gravel rd to my place. I will jack it up and remove all the wheels and get rid of any lingering mud. Important to get it all off, as it stays wet for a long time, and we all know what happens to Alfas if they are kept damp!

Quote from: dehne on March 09, 2010, 12:14:33 PM
well done do you know what happened to matt
Thanks Dehne, read about Mats adventures in this thread. 
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=4173.msg23264#new
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on March 10, 2010, 03:21:49 PM
nope, happy to stick to the nord engine - besides need a 30+ year old car for historic plates here..

are you happy with ride height as is? you mentioned earlier to drop the front perhaps? I'm about to fit gtv6 bars to the alfetta gtv and I'm unsure how high to go - for motorkhana/khana cross/rally sprints purposes.

my rear ride height now with Alfa 75 3.0 springs is 345mm from hub centre to guard edge, and will go to 355 with the bottom rubber seat installed, front is 390 -  perhaps still too low..

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 10, 2010, 07:31:31 PM
I did drop the front about 20mm from initial assembly. i put the pedders subaru outback springs in the rear and made an educated guess about the front. I think where it is now is just about perfect for gravel. I think the Bilsteins are working so well that the car doesn't dip too much in the rough stuff. I did get one small dent in the left hand down tube, but they are sloppily made. average quality mass produced items. when the 24 valve goes in i will custom make some headers that stay high and out of harms way.

Measured my GTV6  370mm center of axle to arch on rear, 400 on front. with 65 profile tyres gives oodles of ground clearance and i don't feel the handling is compromised for what i use it for.

Below are some pictures of the iside of the rims i used on the trial. This is why it is a waste of time balancing rally wheels. On the last transport back to rally HQ at 100k's on the bitumen it felt like it had square wheels. Might have to put some wheel scrapers on the rear.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on March 11, 2010, 10:18:46 PM
talking about wheels, Greg, whats your opinion/experience regarding running aftermarket wheels that dont sit flush on the hub centre due to a larger diameter opening,  which means all the load is taken up by the studs -did your alfetta always run factory rims?

also wanted to ask if you kept the factory brake bias valve pls?

and thanks for posting the measurements - appreciate the feed back!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 12, 2010, 09:18:32 PM
Martin, I really wouldn't use wheels with wrong centre holes for any sort of competition. nothing wrong with aftermarket wheels but they must fit! Adapters could be made i guess, but it's easier to use the correct wheel in the first place. I use Alfa 90 rims, which are speedlines 6 inch x 15, 5 stud 45 offset. I think they are fairly good although i have broken a couple over the years.

The factory bias valve is non adjustable. On the Alfetta sedan i replaced it with an adjustable one mounted in the cab. This worked ok but the GTV6 has a pedal box with a bias adjuster which is much better. took me a couple of weeks to build it, but it was worth the effort. pic below.
The Alfetta sedan had a  master cylinder out of a daihatsu L60v in it. The L60V is a light weight 3 cylinder buzz box that has a see-saw master cylinder mounted under the dash board ( no booster) Grafted that in and while i was at it i see-sawed the clutch cylinder too so there are no brake components under the bonnet except for the reservoirs. Took 15 kg off and put 2.5kg back. pedal was a bit heavy but it worked a treat. i can take some pics if you really want.



Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on March 19, 2010, 09:03:26 PM
hi greg wondering if you could help me with some info. im going to make my white 90 an motorkana/autocross car and wondering if you have a few tips to make it better. im not looking at puting a cage in yet but when i do i need to get 2 done one for each race car
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 20, 2010, 09:32:24 PM
Sure Dehne, First and foremost, remember the number one rule... light is fast. If you work on getting it light, it also makes it faster, stop better and turn better. Completly strip the interior, including the bitumen on the floor ( I know it's a pain, but it weighs over 20 kg) Get rid of the doors side intrusion. Not needed in a motorkhana or a speed event. Electric windows, piff them. Door trims, 1mm aluminium sheet. Rear window and side windows can be perspex. Fit 1 race seat and a harness.

Now that it's light on the inside, gotta get it to turn. Get rid of the rear brake presure regulator. just get a brake joining coupling off one of your wrecks and join the 2 pipes together. You need to have some way of adjusting the bias. you can fit an adjustable valve in the cabin within easy reach or get a pedalbox. 1st option works ok for speed events and is cheaper. Hydraulic handbrake is real handy for motorkhanas. Not in the hunt if you don't have one in a rear wheel drive. need brake pads that wont fade. Race Brakes RB74 are brilliant. If you are on gravel, remove the rear sway bar. Way too taily with it. standard height is ok. no need to make it higher and i wouldn't lower it. been on some autocross tracks that cut up at the end of the day. Bagshot and boisdale particularly. If you want to, take 3rd, 4th and 5th out of the gearbox. wont need them, save weight and syncros will last longer. really need a lsd or weld the diff as a last option.

now you have a car that is capable of winning class, if the driver is up to it.

I am entering a khanacross at Pakenham tomorrow. Wish me skill.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on March 20, 2010, 10:07:25 PM

remember the number one rule... light is fast. If you work on getting it light, it also makes it faster, stop better and turn better.

so the same as i did to the track car

. Get rid of the rear brake presure regulator. just get a brake joining coupling off one of your wrecks and join the 2 pipes together.

im guessing this is the bit beside the master cylinder

You need to have some way of adjusting the bias. you can fit an adjustable valve in the cabin within easy reach or get a pedalbox.
how do i do this will use first option

Hydraulic handbrake is real handy for motorkhanas.
how much are they i going to try and get second hand one from pedder arc team if im lucky.

need a lsd or weld the diff as a last option.
how hard is it to weld or should i just wait till i get a lsd but then i would prefer that in the track car first

now you have a car that is capable of winning class, if the driver is up to it.
prob not but will have a freakin fun time trying
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Mat Francis on March 20, 2010, 11:45:23 PM
Whilst an LSD is great on the track, i would argue that if you are going to use both cars sort of equally, stick one in the gravel car first. 120HP on the track might get an inside wheel spinning out of corners, but not having one on gravel is going to slow you down a lot more.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on March 20, 2010, 11:52:38 PM
the track car always brakes into wheel spin out of a corner and it will get more use than the rally car maybe you could sell me ur lsd out of the 75
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 21, 2010, 04:36:39 PM
Quote from: dehne on March 20, 2010, 10:07:25 PM



. Get rid of the rear brake presure regulator. just get a brake joining coupling off one of your wrecks and join the 2 pipes together.

im guessing this is the bit beside the master cylinder

Not sure on the 90. the 116 have it screwed up under the floor left of the clutch housing.



Hydraulic handbrake is real handy for motorkhanas.
how much are they i going to try and get second hand one from pedder arc team if im lucky.

I have alway made my own. Have a look here http://www.seemore.com.au/product.php?id=4681 or here http://www.compbrake.co.uk/HANDBRAKES/HANDBRAKES.html

need a lsd or weld the diff as a last option.
how hard is it to weld or should i just wait till i get a lsd but then i would prefer that in the track car first

the easiest and perhaps the best is to take the diff centre out , clean it, fill up around the spider gears with molten aluminium. light weight and doesn't affect the hardness of things that matter. most autocrossers i know just weld plates in the spiders. when it breaks just put another one in. Trouble with locked diffs is it is hard on drive shafts.

now you have a car that is capable of winning class, if the driver is up to it.
prob not but will have a freakin fun time trying

Great fun  :)

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on March 22, 2010, 12:21:55 AM
I'm not sure that advocating welded diffs is a good idea.  As you say it is hard on drive shafts, and when drive shafts go on a transaxle car, so do brakes.  I was trying to get my mechanic to do it to my car, but he convinced me otherwise; well actually he refused to do it, for that very reason.

Dehne, if you're worried about wheelspin on the track, get some stiffer torsion bars; it won't eliminate it but it will reduce it by about 90%.  Or you could just paint it and get a big wing, same difference I guess.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 22, 2010, 08:47:34 PM
Sheldon, i wouldn't advocate a welded diff. I wouldn't do it myself. But a lot of the guys who do autocross use them on cost grounds. I think it turns any car into a pig of a thing to drive. Simply put, understeer city unless you have the back wheels spinning. And just try to park it! I drove my Alfetta with a broken drive shaft and broken watts link from Nowa Nowa to Kalimna after an altercation with a bank and a shrubbery. Interesting drive was an understatement. Had to drop the clutch with the handbrake on to ramp up the lsd. as long as i kept the boot in it would keep driving. So slowing down wasn't an option.
Ever driven with the watts link removed? Try it sometime when there is nothing around to run into. ;)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on March 24, 2010, 06:33:05 AM
Greg, how was the khana cross?

I assume the hydraulic brake needs to plumb in behind the bias valve so that its pressure is not reduced by the valve?

I'm looking at knob & lever type willwood valves to go with the factory booster set-up (for now) - have you ever swapped the factoy with an aftermarket valve (without a pedal box)? Reason for asking is that i read a couple of times (long time ago..) that an aftermarket bias valve wasnt able to reduce bias to the rear enough, resulting in rear wheel lock-ups The willwood lever type will reduce 58% which is as good as it gets apparently..?.... cheers
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 24, 2010, 09:16:10 PM
Martin, Khanacross was awesome. Clearly the fastest car there on the day. The way it squatted and accelerated on the grass made it the fastest between 2 points. There was a 5.7 litre holden ute there, claiming around 500 bhp, It got the award for the longest rooster tails and the most dust, but it wasn't as fast as the GTV6. Petty the driver (me) had brain fade in one test and zigged instead of zagging. That cost around 20 seconds. Maybe too tall an order to come back from. I'll post the results when they surface.

Just got back from scruitiny for the Trailblazer. It is a touring assembly that starts in Kilmore Saturday morning, Finishes in Heathcote Saturday pm, Then a motorkhana special test, then a Touring road event that finishes back in Heathcote around Midnight. Over 12 hrs of driving for only $200. ( including Dinner at the end!) Hows that compare to a sprint? Passed scruitiny no probs. (did have to replace lhs lwr ball joint and rh tie rod yesterday) Going to drive up from home  and then straight back at the end. Be about 16 hrs in the car non stop. Using it as a training session for the OLD BP RALLYE which i have entered.
Starts 6PM May 6th in Pakenham, we drive to Sale then over the mountains and emerge at Benalla for a 4hr breakfast break Friday morning. Then off to Swan Hill by late afternoon for an overnight stop. Saturday morning through the sand and stop at Sea Lake for a dinner break, then off to a Ballarat finish early hrs Sunday morning. A grand total of 2000 Kms. After i finish that i'll let you know if i think the GTV6 is reliable or not. Really looking forward to it. Great history in BP RALLIES. Google it if you want to know more.

As for pressure limiting valves. I used an adjustable one that had a knob you turn. it went from 100% to 0 % . I think you might be able to find the percentage you want in that range. Talk to Lionel at Vic Brake in Pakenham. He got it for me. i think it was about 40 something dollars?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on March 24, 2010, 09:37:03 PM
im guessing that event is on this weekend from kilmore to heathcote what a bugger that im working i would have went to heathcote to watch and have a look at gtv and say hello. could you put a pic up of ur brake valve adjuster just so i can put a pic to a description
thanks
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 25, 2010, 09:33:30 PM
Yes Dehne, this weekend. Pity you can't come say hi.

The valve in question is currently in the 116-58 in its partially finished rework. Actually thinking that the pedalbox i made for the GTV6 works so well, i might clone one for the 'Fetta so i would be interested in selling the see-saw pedalbox and regulating valve. bolts straight into the alfetta sedan so i'm guessing it will bolt straight into the 90. The 'fetta was running standard 90 brakes. The only thing is i didn't change the pedal ratio so it is quite a firm pedal. Pedals however could be extended without too much trouble. Take a pic on sunday after i wake up.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on March 25, 2010, 10:14:42 PM
hi greg, i'd be interested in the box with/without valve. what are the benefits of the gtv6 setup over the alfetta?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 29, 2010, 01:45:28 PM
Trailblazer run and won. Not by us i might add. But i think we did extremely well. 13th in the tour and 7th in the TRE. We were the first c grade crew which means we get some kind of award. The best award is knowing that we beat many a & b grade crews. This was the first TRE we had done as a crew and only the 2nd i have driven. Neither of us had ever done a Touring Assembly before. Lots to learn!

CoC has a warped mind! Gave us a handfull of teeny-tiny maps from the 6o's i think and sent us on our way. Of course the roads have changed a lot since the maps were drawn. We managed to drive the whole course but missed a few infos etc. But it was great fun.

TRE was a different kettle of fish. Got to use the rev limiter frequently. Some bits we had to crawl along looking for un-mapped roads, Missed a couple of infos, some i think in the dust, which was cronic in places. Fortunately there was a breeze going thru but in some of the gullies the dust was so thick you dare not drive thru at more than walking pace.

With about 9 k's to go the engine started coughing a bit and by 6 k's to go it would not rev over 2000 rpm. It was a case of 5th gear 2000 rpm to get any sort of speed out of it. But we finished.

Next problem, driving home. Starting out from Alien Camp some 30 k's wrong side of Heathcote, best we could get was 78 kph stopped at Kilmore for fuel and a pie and a coffee and a mars bar. This is 2am.
After kilmore settled in for a slow trip home but as the k's slipped by the speed slowly increased. By Craigiburn we could get 105 out of her. Got home to Officer at 4:15 Very tired, very dusty but very pleased with how the whole thing went.

Things to fix b4 the BP;  replace fuel filter ( cause of engine problems) Replace front main seal (now leaking profusely ) replace both down tubes with ones that don't protude below the front rails, bash plate and a better compass.

very unofficial results,


TOUR

O/R Crew Car POINTS
=1 Joel Wald/Ashley McBain Datsun 1600 20
=1 Jeff Stewart/Geoff Boyd Ford Cortina Mk2 20
=1 Rob Bride/Ross Kelly Saab 9000 20
=4 Derrick White/Dave Smith Peugeot 504 40
=4 Graham Wallis/Phil Nicholas Peugeot 405 40
=4 Peter Otzen/Paul Franklin Datsun 180B SSS 40
=7 Kim Harper/Steuart Snooks Ford Escort Twincam 60
=7 Mark Laidlay/Melissa Laidlay Mitsubishi Pajero 60
=9 Doug Fernie/Geoff Floyd Datsun P510 Bluebird 80
=9 David Officer/Kate Officer Mitsubishi Colt Galant 80
11 Jack De Bruijne/Jeff Smith Austin Healey Sprite Mk 3A 120
12 David Allwright/Dale Wiggins Chrysler Lancer LB 160
13 Greg Wyatt/Dale Allan Alfa Romeo Alfetta 180
14 John Moore/Robert Richards BMC Mini 206
15 Dan Murphy/Mike Novak Lada Samara 280
16 Gary Gibbons/George Davidson Ford Escort RS2000 360
17 Peter Harvey/Trevor Harvey Subaru WRX 380
18 Geoff Hale/Alan Baker Volkswagen Golf GLS 400
19 Jeff Graham/Terry Graham Peugeot 404 708
20 Murray MacKenzie/Brent Mackenzie Hyundai Excel 760
21 Michael Long/Vaughan Haskett Datsun 180B SSS 800
22 Brian Canny/Paul Crosbie Peugeot 504 Ti 860

TRE

O/R Crew Car POINTS
1 Derrick White/Dave Smith Peugeot 504 22
2 Graham Wallis/Phil Nicholas Peugeot 405 38
3 David Officer/Kate Officer Mitsubishi Colt Galant 42
4 Joel Wald/Ashley McBain Datsun 1600 71
5 Doug Fernie/Geoff Floyd Datsun P510 Bluebird 98
6 Alan Upton/Mark Laidlay Datsun Bluebird P510 112
7 Greg Wyatt/Dale Allan Alfa Romeo GTV 6 120
8 Michael Ward/Di Bailey Toyota Corolla 139
9 Michael Foreshew/Tim Hall Ford Cortina Mk II 154
10 Russell Woollard/Rowan Woollard Nissan Bluebird 182
11 David Johns/Les Shadwick Chrysler Lancer LA 230
12 Peter Parry/Bernard Lakerink Hyundai Excel 282
2 Major Controls Missed
13 Michael Long/Vaughan Haskett Datsun 180B SSS 176
14 John Ellis/Adrian Sietsma Fiat 1500 202
15 Colin Sichlau/Rick Thorpe Isuzu Gemini 370
16 Brian Canny/Paul Crosbie Peugeot 504 Ti 481
3 Major Controls Missed
17 Dan Murphy/Mike Novak Lada Samara 322
4 Major Controls Missed
18 Geoff Hale/Alan Baker Volkswagen Golf GLS 188
5 Major Controls Missed
19 David Allwright/Dale Wiggins Chrysler Lancer LB 84
20 Gary Gibbons/George Davidson snr Ford Escort
RS2000 288
Did not finish the event
Robert Dyer/Jenny Pollock Datsun Sunny
PB210 DNF(5) No reason given
Duncan Elliot/Zarny Tran Toyota Corolla DNF(2) Alternator
Jeff Graham/Terry Graham Peugeot 404 DNF(2) No
reason given
Steve Ashton/Ro Nixon Mitsubishi Galant DNF(2) Broken wheel
Peter Otzen/Paul Franklin Datsun 180B SSS DNF(1) Brakes
Kim Harper/Steuart Snooks Ford Escort
Twincam DNF(1) Head gasket
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 31, 2010, 02:31:49 PM
just found a pic of the GTV6 powering through the dust at Heatcote

(http://www.hra.org.au/files/images/18-Whyatt-Allan.jpg)

Thanks to David Gallacher for taking it.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 01, 2010, 11:12:04 AM
And a pic From John Doutch
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 05, 2010, 07:56:53 PM
And some pics from Golly.

GTV6 is now up on blocks in the shed. Pulled the front pulley off today and removed the front main. seal looked ok but is leaking profusely. Locate a new one tomorrow and get it back together. Another project for tomorrow is new exhaust down tubes, so i can get the bash plate folded and bolted on.

Does anyone have an opinion on the worth of the small expansion boxes between the headers and the first muffler? Totally necessary or can be dispensed with?

I was amazed at the weight of the radiator. I so have to get an aluminium core replacement. all that weight hanging out in front of the front axle line can't be good.

Hope you are enjoying the action pics. Looking at the second one, must be hard on the go pedal, front end high and full squat at the rear.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on April 09, 2010, 04:24:42 PM
Hey Greg, finally got the subi springs in.. Do u have problems with them centering properly on the dedion, being a bigger diameter? I'm using both the rubber and steel rings to seat them a bit better but it doesmy look ideal.. I guess they can't go anywhere being so much taller..    
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 09, 2010, 06:35:25 PM
martin. They are only 5 m m bigger than standard0, i use the steel and rubber rings and they have not given any trouble. 
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 14, 2010, 08:40:21 PM
Paul,  great to hear you are using your Alfa in the dirt. I really think it is what they had in mind when they designed the trans axle models. So balanced and sure footed.

Im not at home at the moment, so i cant measure the discs. I picked up some rda grooved and dimpled 306 gti discs that are identical to the drawing some pages back in this thread. I also got some 156 gta discs for the front at the same time,  but need new rims b 4 i can fit them.

Hope that helps. You guys doing a control for the B P ? Catch up with you then .
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on April 15, 2010, 12:31:24 AM
Quote from: redalfaracing on April 14, 2010, 08:40:21 PM
Paul,  great to hear you are using your Alfa in the dirt. I really think it is what they had in mind when they designed the trans axle models. So balanced and sure footed.

Umm.....yeah......., I'm not quite as sure as you are about that. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they're great in the dirt.  But maybe in the same way that a condom makes an excellent balloon when you put it on your exhaust pipe with the engine running.  I don't think that's what the designer had in mind.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 15, 2010, 06:46:13 PM
Paul, the Gta discs are the 305 m m ones. I think i may have to trim then down 5 or 10 m m to get then to fit inside the 15 inch rims with the will wood calipers i have, depending on which rims i settle on.  i have not looked at them with a view to using with the standard brembos. Not a very large pad area for such large discs. Would have to fit spacers as view are a lot thicker.


Sheldon. Condoms on the exhaust pipe ?  why didn't i think of that.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 20, 2010, 05:42:48 PM
Paul, have not done much since the trail blazer. Cleaned it and done the front main seal, still away but back tomorrow and i will get stuck into it. Just need to make new exhaust pipes from the headers to the front muffler, got a bit munted in the last event. Change some oil and its good to go .

166 Discs should do the job. Have not done anything to mine yet. Not until i get some rims.

See you in benalla he we get that far!

Thanks for the offer of signs. I an already kinda sponsored by a sign guy. Sign illusions but if that dries up ill take you up.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 21, 2010, 09:37:17 PM
Quote from: Sheldon Mcintosh on April 15, 2010, 12:31:24 AM


Umm.....yeah......., I'm not quite as sure as you are about that. 

I don't think that's what the designer had in mind.

I have been giving a bit of thought to this subject in the last few days, and now i am home and have a computer instead of a mobile phone in front of the campfire i'll have a crack at it.

I wasn't there but i reckon the Alfa guys brief was to make a car with true Alfa performance that handled more than adequately on all road surfaces encountered in Europe. That would include Bitumen, Gravel, Snow and Ice.

Go through the features one by one.

Obviously the transaxle and the DeDion. 50/50 balance ( with a 4 cylinder) Rear wheel attitude stays constant no matter the road surface. All drive is transfered to the center line of the car no matter which wheel is driving. Lower unsprung weight ( no diff and brakes going up and down with the suspension).

Double wish bone front suspension with torsion bars. Again lower unsprung weight. ( no springs going up and down) Very rigid lwr wishbone. strong and precise. ( strut front ends rely on a castor rod which is prone to breaking and must be rubber mounted)

4 wheel disc brakes. ( more effective than drums)

light weight responsive engine. ( most cars still had cast iron blocks and single carbys in '76)

These are the main points as i see it. correct me if you think i'm wrong.

Then we get to getting them to go better. It seems to me that less is required to be class leader on gravel than on bitumen.

For gravel, leave the suspension soft. V6 torsion bars and front stabiliser is all thats required on the front. Maybe some gas shocks if you like. rear springs are ok if you don't need more ground clearance. Thow the rear stabiliser away completly. LSD and twin spark 1st and 2nd, mild cams and headers. 90 - 100 rwkw is enough. Of course get rid of as much weight as you can. Decent brake pads and rally tyres, then you have a car i would be happy to throw around in the forest or in a paddock at the club khanacross. A half decent driver will find himself in the top 3 at any event.

For Bitumen, Thick torsion bars and stabilisers ( which means reinforcing the stabiliser mounting points) lowered by modifying knuckles, bending steering arms to eliminate bump steer. bending DeDion to give toe in and some negative. Huge brakes and calipers. LSD and close ratio box. As many rwkw as you can ring out of the motor ( still not enough ) Make as light as you can and you have a car that will be happy on a circuit but no where else. How does a half decent driver fare amongst all comers?

Pretty much gravel comes naturally to the transaxle car but bitumen needs to be worked at a lot harder.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 29, 2010, 06:25:44 PM
Getting ready for the "BP", Furthers came out Tuesday. We are car 36 of 45 total entries. bit large to put on here, but if you want to read them, PM me with your email and i'll shoot them across. Our start time is 1910 HRS Start location is the Pakenham Racecourse. We transport down to Sale for a 10 minute service ( fuel up) Then it to god knows where. Plan is to arrive in Benalla at around 0600 HRS Friday.

Oldest car entered is a 1936 MG SA. Fancy a 2500 km tour thru Vic and NSW in one of those?

Changed the down tubes. pictures below. 1st the old, 2nd the new and 3rd close up of the damage from the last event. Front seal changed and fuel filter. Full of rust from the tank. Gave it a good clean out when i built the car but must have missed some. If it re occurs i'll be looking to build an alloy tank. Scrutiny is at Performance Exhausts on Saturday 1300 HRS.

Keep you posted on how things go.

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 03, 2010, 06:54:05 PM
3 days to go, car almost prepared. Oil changed, new plugs. Bash plate now fitted, Passed scrutiny on Saturday afternoon no problem. Going to see Stuckey tomorrow for some tyres.

Speculation is rife re the route. Now there is concern about the impending weather. Snow is forecast for Hotham tomorrow. Last BP went over the high plains. Every reason to suspect that we will this time as well. ( We have to go from Sale to Benalla,  the only way is up and over) I have done a fair bit of enduro riding in the snow, never rallied in it. Something to look forward to. Apparently we have a lot of deep sand on Saturday. Looking forward to that too. Be ok so long as no one gets burried in front of you and leaves you no where to go. Time will tell.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on May 03, 2010, 08:22:16 PM
geez, you're handy with the tools, greg. Impressive! Hope all goes well!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 04, 2010, 08:38:31 PM
Quote from: 116gtv on May 03, 2010, 08:22:16 PM
geez, you're handy with the tools, greg. Impressive! Hope all goes well!

Thanks Martin, Really looking forward to this event. Real test of teamwork, driver, codriver, car and lady luck. Got 6 brand new dunlops today from Stuckeys. Not very often i buy new tyres, but i think this event warrants it. Snow forecast to 1200 metres tonight. Glad i left a heater in. Fatigue will be the big thing, we will try to manage it as best we can. Trying to stock up on sleep but with so much to think of it isn't easy. Car is running superbly, all i can ask.

This is the BP website: http://hra.org.au/index.php?q=node/1633

Give you a run down next week.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on May 07, 2010, 04:28:55 PM
AWESOME!!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Mat Francis on May 07, 2010, 05:16:18 PM
Quote from: paul edwards on May 07, 2010, 12:08:29 PM


                 Gregs GTV6 is totally standard apart from, gas shocks, Lsd trans axle, slighty firmer rear springs and thats it.
                 

There's "standard" and there's standard. Not taking anything away from Greg (in fact it's a compliment), but that is one seriously well set up car.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on May 07, 2010, 05:34:46 PM
+1

This car is beautifully set-up, the details are outstanding.  But it's a looooooong way from standard.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 07, 2010, 08:36:07 PM
after today we are in 9 th place.  the 18 minutes from last night has been taken off,  meaning we were 1st place after division 1,  something i didn't expect. We had 1 horror section today. Just couldn't find an un mapped road. Lost 90 minutes but did very well in all other sections. Gotta say. This is a blast. And still 2 divisions TO go.

Car is still on fire, just as good today as last night ,,

we start tomorrow. Car 9 on the road. Around 7,50
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Mat Francis on May 08, 2010, 04:50:21 PM
Excellent news Greg. Keep up the great work  :D
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 10, 2010, 08:58:34 PM
(http://www.hra.org.au/files/images/Olde%20BP%20Rally%202010%20034.preview.jpg)
Horse Gully Rd, Balmattum. Rick Anderson - Benalla

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs618.snc3/32524_120001871360495_100000520482158_194441_4563914_n.jpg)
Taken at Assembly Start by Sean Carney

Well i survived the 2010 BP Ultimate Rally.

Over 2000 KM's of the states best and worst roads, and some of the most obscure instructions to find the most unlikely tracks. We were taken along National Highways, Major roads, minor roads, sand tracks, train lines, drains, wheat paddocks, walking tracks and visited National Parks, Flora and Fauna reserves, Conservation Reserves, Private farms and places that time forgot.

3 days with only 9 hrs sleep, lots of jelly beans and mars bars, salad rolls, and 1 great rib eye steak from a bar in Swan Hill, all washed down by a couple of litres of Gatorade.

As mentioned earlier, division 1 had our name on it. 1st outright, we were chuffed. Drove the wheel of that GTV6 all night. Dale was acting like he drew the maps. ( 1960 broadbents were used ) Dont think he looked out the window once, just studdied the map and the compass. How you do that without chucking is beyond me! Tour start was in Stratford, then off to Bairnsdale and then Dargo, via a walking track in the Mitchell River National Park. From Dargo straight up the high plains road to Mt Blow Hard, on the Great Alpine Road. How much fun do you think that was? Rounded up so many cars passing most of them on the inside at corners. The Alfa owned that road. Down the mountain to Bright and west to Benalla.
Total time lost, 7 minutes. Quick chat to Paul, bacon and eggs, then off to the motel for 75 minutes sleep.

Division 2 started well. cleaned the first 2 stages then DISASTER! just could not find the road that we needed. we wern't alone. rally cars going around in circles. finally we gave up and missed 2 vias (60 points) and by the time we finished lost 28 minutes. rest of the day was good but at the end we were 105 points. Still most crews dropped time and missed vias so we still kept 9th place. Still happy.

Arrived in Swan Hill around 6pm. Car now as noisy as, rough roads taking their toll on the exhaust. Now i think they built the car then someone noticed it had no exhaust, dont worry, just hang it anywhere underneath. What a stupid place to put the muffler. Definately going to the later cross member to get it all up higher. Anyway, a good feed and 8 hrs of broken sleep, 6am rise and off to Division start to do some repairs while Dale plots todays route. 30 minutes to plot then we are off. 50 km transport in which Dale continues to plot. Stage 1, what a blast. sand roads full sideways. Then we found the deep sand. Love that V6 torque. We had let the tyres down to 20 psi and although the car wandered on the deep sand, it never looked like getting stuck. Our strategy was to hit it hard and keep up on top. worked well until the sand hill from hell. Got up it just fine, only trouble was it had a sharp rise at the top and although the hill went down the car kept going up. Never flown a car that far b4. Would have won the money at the birdman rally. we thudded down next to the escort with the broken wheel and the Mercedes  with the rurptured fuel tank. Couple of bounces and off we went. No damage. Service at Hattah then up the highway and into private land. great roads/train line the the wheat paddock. Pictue a hundred acre paddock with rally cars driving all over it looking for the way out. Stage was called Iron Clad Tank, will make BP history books. finally twigged and got out down this sand track, rough as guts and by the time we reached service at Walpeup we had a hole ripped in the muffler as big as an a4 sheet of paper. Even though we had aviation headsets on, we had pounding heads. Closed it up a bit in the 20 minute service the back out there. more sweeping gravel roads and sand paddock tracks. then i'm told to search for a drain. find it an  we have around 8 kms along the top of the drain bank, deep sand tight twisty corners and only about 1 metre wider than the car. Navigational advice " dont fall off" right!
off that then back to the sand roads. Flying along over the dunes, hitting them at 120 km/h to get over, rise over a particularly high one to find a beached Torana XU1. How i pulled up in time i dont know. No way around so it is out to help dig. Soon joined by a few other cars. My advice is never take a tarmac car on a BP rally. anyway, a lot of digging, some sand mats and 9 people pushing we get it out. Next problem the Alfa is stuck too. Locking up all whells dug it in somewhat, so some diggind and pushing we free it too. All other cars stopped b4 the dune so they had run ups and cleared it ok. Funny thing is, we wernt supposed to be there! Should have turned left some 2 kms earlier. So much time has gone that we decide to cut and run so as we dont run out of late time. so we wd the finish control and head to Division end at Sea Lake.

Now 17th. Exhaust comes off, we find an oxy and weld a patch on the muffler. Lock nuts on the flanges and plenty of wire to hold it up. just make our start time and its off with a reasonably quiet car. 60 km transport sth out of the sand belt (we had all had enough sand by now) so east of Birchip we take off down a gravel road. great rally roads. 6k's straight the turn left, 8 k's straight then turn right, you get the picture. Then the unthinkable happens. going down a hill and the steering went light. thought it is slippery untill the car turned sharp left by itself and hit a tree. I found i could turn the wheel with no resulting action at the front wheels. Lucky for us it was a tight section and we were only going relativly slowly at the time. Got on the anchors and brushed of a fair bit of speed so damage not too bad and certainly not terminal. As they say in the classics "nothing but a flesh wound" Steering collumn has come off the top of the steering rack. dont know how as yet as it had the bolt through the spline so it's not supposed to happen. pull the bolt out and refit it. mind you the manifold is red hot so i did it with my driving gloves on. didnt feel a thing. Okky strap the bonnet down and we carry on. Still not knowing what to make of it i am just a little tentative on the go pedal and it takes  a few k's to be brave enough to find the rev limiter. Of course we now are down a couple of driving lights, the light pod being destroyed by the impact, and the other two a bit skew whiff, but i had gotten used to driving in dust on low beam so i no complain. 2nd last section we get a tad confused and take a wrong track. About 10 k's it peters out at a dry creek so i back up and go to turn around. bang! dropped the lh rear into a big hole in the grass. wheel free spinning and rh front wheel about a foot off the ground. Now about 4 am Sunday. Needless to say we needed that like a hole in the head. Got out, had a look, had a wee, then i wondered if Dale sat on the front right and i slowly fed out the clutch with the handbrake on, the diff would ramp up and i could just drive out. Well, i thought it was worth a try. I was amazed. It actually worked. Just as well, coz 10 ks down the wrong road, no one would have found us. Back tracked and found the right road and headed to the finish control. Trouble was, we never found it. We drove round and round a town called Barkly for half an hour trying to find it. Then at 4.45 the sweep car found us. Apparently we drove right past the control at 4.13 and they booked us in as a wd. So time to cut and run. 90 kms to Ballarat Light car clubrooms , we find Jamey our service crew in Lexton on the way, sent him to the van park to sleep, we skip the final stage at Amplitheatre ( just as well as everybody got lost there) Story goes that they had to move the finish control because of a complaint from a resi, result, 30 cars driving round and round the town all night instead of in then straight out. Every dog was barking, I think it would be a brave director to send a rally car through there again.

Final provisional result, 796 points, 14th outright, 1st c grade crew, 2nd in class, and i think maybe 2nd team home.
Am i happy, you bet. finished the hardest rally in vic, car still goes as good as when i started it. Proved itself as a robust, reliable, comfortable car with ample power to show the boys the way over the high plains. Even Dale (who is a datsun man) conceded that it does tick all the boxes.

The event was tuff, demanding, and tiring exhausting, but it is the best thing i have ever done in motorsport, and even though Ross Runnalls the director will probably never read this i have to say i take my hat off to him, spending the 18 months to set this up, and for that i thank him and his team very much and hope he finds the drive to do it all again soon. It was so good i would do it all again next week end.

All that for a $450 entry fee including a 2 course luncheon at the Ballarat race course. Great value for money i think.



Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on May 10, 2010, 10:13:13 PM
That's freakin awesome Greg.  I tip my hat to you sir, you are an inspiration, and I'm glad to have you out there waving the Alfa flag.  I would so love to do some rallying, but as we concluded at a recent club night 'you could do 20 years of sprinting and drive at 99% and have little chance of crashing, but rallying - you're definitely going to hit something in every rally'.

Excellent work, and great to see the GTV6 is up to the job, just as you thought it would be.  Shame about the low exhaust.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 11, 2010, 08:36:01 PM
Sheldon.  it is not mandatory to hit something in every rally. There are guys out there that never hit anything , i have been rallying since 2004 and have had only 3 impacts. It all depends what you want to achieve in the sport. A half decent driver in a decent car can rally at 95% and never come to grief, it's the guys who try and drive at 120% their ability that do all the damage.
Have a go at an intro trial, drive within your capabilities , you would love it.
And thanks mate. I appreciate your comments on me and the GTV6
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 12, 2010, 07:51:01 PM
I was talking about the sand hill with attitude altitude

(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1126/4594808505_ffc4b677e2.jpg)

Cramanton Launch Pad from the North (landing side)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3339/4594810385_fdabc8439b.jpg)

Cramanton Launch Pad from the South (approach side)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3381/4594826381_8a4a1e3b16.jpg)

Portrait version of Rawson's Rocket - and this after slowing down before the crest at the behest of experienced navigator Simon Brown.

need i say anymore?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on May 13, 2010, 09:40:45 AM
OMG, that looks like a 4wd track to me... :o no wonder tarmac rally cars would be in trouble!

so whats your opinion of the V6 over the 4 banger after this event? had you done anything that challenging with the alfetta previously?

congrats, and thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 13, 2010, 09:35:56 PM
Quote from: 116gtv on May 13, 2010, 09:40:45 AM
OMG, that looks like a 4wd track to me... :o no wonder tarmac rally cars would be in trouble!

Martin, believe it or not, that was one of the better roads. have a look at the pics below.

Quote from: 116gtv on May 13, 2010, 09:40:45 AM
so whats your opinion of the V6 over the 4 banger after this event? had you done anything that challenging with the alfetta previously?
The 2l did a lot of rallys, always left me yelling " give me more horsepower" .That phase did not exit my lips this rally. However, in a special stage rally, the 2.5 may be a little underpowered to keep at the pointy end. I'm sure the 24 valve 3L will fix that! The torque of the V6 made the sand quite easy. the last thing you want to do is grab a lower gear, just dig you in. The 2.5 was happy to slog along at 2500-3000 rpm without spinning wheels and digging holes.

Photos below are from John Doutch. Fronts up at most rallies and can be relied on to always provide a couple of good shots of your car. Sells 10x8s for $15, very reasonable. Have had some pearlers over the years.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 14, 2010, 03:36:08 PM
found some more pics of the GTV6, taken by car 37's service crew.

(http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00000oJ6CfFpgS4/t/200)

(http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000v65yp_fPv8g/t/200)   

(http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000FETGCKorhlQ/t/200)

(http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000d5RTlx4WN0g/t/200)

(http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00009..N07HXNfE/t/200)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: alfagtv152 on May 14, 2010, 09:37:51 PM
Hi Greg,
Talking about lighting,what headlights are you using?,I have a few ideas for improving your lighting considerably over standard if your interested.
Cheers
Andrew
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 15, 2010, 06:06:08 PM
Andrew, i have improved on the standard lighting 2000% I have fitted Hella H4's to the outside lights and Hella H1 to the inside lights with 35 watt HID (zennon) kits. With these running on 6mm wires each with their own relays you can see forever. The light pod i made had Hella Predators ( i say had as it is completly munted now) with spread beams. with all those firing i could read a street sign from 1 km away. The big issue was the reflective signs, particularly the chevrons on corners. Had to shield your eyes as the reflected light hurt! Really couldn't have wanted for better lights.

(http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2221.0;attach=8179;image)

If you look at the electrical panel, top lh corner you can see the 2 double relays.

In the pics below you can see the lights and the conversion to Alfa mounts. only took about an hour and some sikaflex ( worlds most handiest substance!)

If you think you can improve on those lights i'd love to hear about it.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: alfagtv152 on May 15, 2010, 08:07:58 PM
Hi Greg,
I think you have it pretty well covered but there may be one more little thing you could do.I have the same conversion on my GT except that I put a change over relay in the wiring tail to the H4 with a signal from the high beam to change it from low beam to high beam so that you have 4 high beams if you want.I guess in rally you might want to keep the low beam for short distance lighting.
The car looks awesome and I love the pictures and stories,keep up the good work.
Cheers
Andrew
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 15, 2010, 08:54:43 PM
Thanks Andrew. I too have an extra relay so i can run just the outside 2 as high beams or all 4. ( the inside beams are classed as driving lights so they can be zennons). ADR's preclude high or low beam lights from being zennon except when they have self levelling capability and washers. My neighbor is a whizz bang auto electrician. Peter usually only works on earthmoving equipment but he does all my work on the rally cars and they never let me down electrically. Amazing how many DNF's are due to electrical faults.

Next event i am planning is round 2 of the VRC which is at Bega on June 13. Very fast forest and shire roads. See how she goes in a forest race!
Then The Xtrial. Round 3 of the HRA rally series at Dunolly July 10th

Thats if i get the damage fixed from the last one!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 21, 2010, 08:48:05 PM
Started the repair on the front of the GTV6. Chained it to a tree and used a 1/2 ton chain block to attempt to pull out the indentation in the front. A sad thing happened. The radiator support panel ( which is a sheetmetal box section) just tore into a few pieces. The panel is painted on the outside, but not the inside. Consequently the tinworm has taken hold.

Back to the drawing board. Cut out the panel and have Tigged a piece of 20mm x 1mm lygal shs in its place. Tomorrow i will fold up a sheetmetal panel that goes over it and to the front of the car. I have a panel from a wrecked 2l GTV to put over it to complete the job. Hoping minimal filler will be necessary to achieve a reasonably neat job.

Wont have this done by Sunday, so it's no Khanacross for me >:(
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Fylnn on May 23, 2010, 10:21:19 PM
Greg,

I have been setting up the suspension for my PRC GTV6 over the weekend.   I have raised the ride height an inch over what I had which gives about 400mm from centre of axle to lip of guard, which is what I think you said here.  Car looks good, gives me about 180mm clearance under the sump and 200 mm under the chasis rails.  It seems about right for gravel.  But I am a little concerned about the droop of the suspension.  One side is on the rubber bump stop and the other is close.  Did you modify the droop stops on your car?

As a trial I jacked the front up until the front tyre can spin and I have only got a about 25mm of droop.  Not too excited about the prospects of regularly going over crests with the front wheels doing not much. 

Any suggestions on mods or even the need for them?

Peter
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on May 24, 2010, 09:10:26 AM
Funny you are asking that Peter, I was doing the same on my GTV4 last night and realised i can barely get the upper arm balljoint back onto the upright because the lower arm is pointing so far down.. i was going to ditch that mount for more droop but then thought I'd better check.. ::) perhaps skimming it down to half size would work best...
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Fylnn on May 24, 2010, 10:46:49 AM
Strange how these things happen.  My thought for next weekend is to take out the hacksaw and cut the bump rubber in half.  At present it is about 25mm thick, I am hoping 12-15mm will be enough.

I remember reading somewhere some time back about I think it was Greg Carr's GTV6 where they made up extended spindles, but that is way too hard.

So unless there is a better idea I am thinking along the same lines as yourself and cut it down.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on May 24, 2010, 11:12:48 AM
well, if we ditch it, the question is whether the shocks or the upper arm will bottom out first  :D. curious to see what our resident rally guru has to say..
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 24, 2010, 11:50:46 AM
you are right, for rally 50m m is a minimum droop you should be looking for. He your torsion bars are too stiff you will never achieve it. I an still running standard gtv6 bars but think i will go one size thicker. I cut the whole bump stop bracket off, the 90 had it cut no rubber on it. On The 75 it had disappeared  completely , the shocker is happy to do the rebound stop and you fit a buns stop rubber to the shocker to the shocker shaft. Works good and you save 4 kg.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Anthony Miller on May 24, 2010, 01:31:34 PM
75 shocks come with bump stops, that's why you can't fit alfetta shocks to a 75 and also why there is no bump stop bracket rubber on 75 front suspension, just what I'm told by someone who should know
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 24, 2010, 02:05:48 PM
anthony. Exactly my point. Essentially the 75 and 90 are the same floor pan / chassis as the gtv6 so there is no reason as to why bump stop on the shocker will not work. And if you aren't using the rubber may as well but the bracket off,
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 24, 2010, 09:31:28 PM
The repair is going ok but slow. Have a new radiator support panel made and welded in. Have a top panel from a donor 2l gtv bare metalled, but it's got a few issues and i'm going to try and find a better example.
There is a pic of the panel work and one of the front suspension setup to help those with droop issues ;)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on May 26, 2010, 05:53:08 PM
Provisional results for the BP came out and they found a couple of things to ping us more points on. Something to do with running out of late time. Anyway, now 15th. Still reckon it was a fair effort given our inexperience in this type of event. you can get pdf results here http://hra.org.au/files/BP%20Rally%202010%20Prov%20Results.pdf (http://hra.org.au/files/BP%20Rally%202010%20Prov%20Results.pdf)

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on May 28, 2010, 10:47:31 AM
thx for posting the suspension pic, greg.

I can see where you cut the nose, so will allow abit of overlap when I chop the good one for you..
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 08, 2010, 08:46:06 PM
Repairs are coming along slowly. Thanks to Martin i now have the new nose on the bella, it will look perfect as it flashes past in the dark :). Grille is almost ready to screw in. Had to repair some of the headlight adjusting screws. New nutserts and epoxy has done the job. Just need to run a tap through them all and then coat with neverseeze.

Still battling with the exhaust. would love to lose the centre muffler, so i welded some tubing where it used to be. Think it is a bit barky even for a rally car. The service park repair is below.

Just have to replace the lost left hand rear mud flap that went missing last event and it will be ready for another fang.

Missed the close of entries for Bega rally ( event this Sunday) so we have entered the Nissan Nightmoves ( June 26th ) at Heathcote. Driven 2 of them before. Came 4th outright in 2004 and i think 7th or so in 2005 in the 2 litre Alfetta sedan. Lets see how the GTV6 likes winding through the stumps. I somehow think the 2 litre might be the easier of the 2 to drive around there. I'll give it my best shot.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 10, 2010, 08:24:31 PM
GTV6 now back together. Had to rush to finish this morning as a guy from the Berwick Journal wanted to come take a photo for an article the club (PAC) is doing next week. Hopefully he uses a decent shot. When the article hits i'll post a link.
Took it for a tune today, actually doesn't sound too bad out of the shed, just has a bit of an annoying resonance at about 2500 revs. I will look into fitting some resonators of sorts.
Fitted the bonnet of my other GTV6 ( luckily the same colour) Still trying to locate another bonnet for this girl.

Went to the HRA club meeting last night. Got a trophy for the Trailblazer and we got medallions for the BP Ultimate Rally. There is a BP movie comming out. Lots of Datsuns, Escorts and Peugots But there is an Alfa and a Fiat to make it a little bit more enjoyable. Apparently on sale later this week.
The Trailblazer trophy is hand made by a club member out of a bit of windfall Ironbark from the area ( Heathcote) The BP medallion is reminiscent of all the BP medallions. It will take pride of place on the trophy cabinet. Both way more handsome than a plasic car on a bit of fake wood!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 12, 2010, 09:28:02 PM
Hey, i have to tell you a story from the BP  :)

Division 3 and we are just recovering from being stuck behind the planted XU1
Trying to find our way to the finish control at Bronzewing ( yes it is a place, on the Sunraysia Hwy)
Cruising along a quite good gravel road doing about 100 clicks, and we decide to pull over to have a better look at the map. About 30 seconds later a Nissan Patrol pulls up some 100 metres behind us, and a guy gets out and strolls up to my window which i have wound down by this stage. Obviously a farmer and obviously upset, he goes " whats with your driving?" Having being driving very sedately (because if you are lost, no point going too far in the wrong direction) all i could think of was to say, "What do you mean?" He replied " You are not from around here, are you?"   "No" i said, and he said "well don't F###en come back!!!"
Really i was a bit taken aback by his tyrade and didn't think anything i would be likely to say would enhance our relationship, so i wound up the window and drove off.
We drive on a bit and decide we are indeed heading in the wrong direction. U turn and back we goe turning left at the first road. About 2 K's down and there is our newest friend sitting on the side of the road with another guy in his Patrol. Still not sure where we are we are only doing 80 clicks as we go past him, but that doesn't stop him doing rude gestures and shouting at us. I commented to Dale, " this guy is not in a happy place" Anyway, about 5 K's down the road we finally find the finish control ( from the wrong direction) Stop, get my card marked, and who do you think pulls up behind us?
I quickly explain the conversation we have had to the control official and take off over the Hwy to where Jamey is waiting with fuel. Could hear this guy from 800metres away. He rang the CoC and the St Arnoud police. I have been expecting to lose the car under the hoon legislation, but i think things have been smoothed over by now. I think maybe he was cut off by another competitor, possibly by a red 240Z ( there were 2 in the event) you gotta admit they would look similar in the dust.

Earlier in the day we were doing 120 clicks along a gravel road near Walpeup and a farmer passed us in his triton ute full of fencing gear, he hung the back out round the next corner and we didn't see him again. Bet he went home and bragged to his wife and kids about showing a rally car the way home!!!
I guess there is farmers and then there is farmers.

Hope you enjoyed the story
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 15, 2010, 07:00:54 PM
This pic appears in the Berwick Journal out today,

(http://www.berwickjournal.com.au/multimedia/images/large/817540.jpg)

The full article is here http://www.berwickjournal.com.au/news/local/news/general/lots-of-vroom-for-fans/1858823.aspx (http://www.berwickjournal.com.au/news/local/news/general/lots-of-vroom-for-fans/1858823.aspx)

Not the best picture taken on the day, but what would they know? They are only journalists.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 16, 2010, 10:04:23 PM
Yes Paul, all my kids did motorkhanas, khanacross and autocross and i would call them very safe drivers. Learning car control without having to worry about what other vehicles are doing around you is a big plus in my book. Also learning the limits of what a car can do, means that you will never exceed those limits on the road, unlike the num-nums that wipe themselves out with monotonous regularity. We usually get 12 to 20 new faces at our come and try days. Most join the club and come back to do a few events, we always get the parents in the cars too, they are amazed just how little they know about car control!Some like me and my kids hang around for years.....
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 19, 2010, 02:16:08 PM
Nissan Nightmoves furthers are out, Car 12 of 50. Start time 18:37

Car 12 is not a bad spot on the road to be. Get the big rocks swept off. And a few wheel marks so you can guage the severity of the corners.

Not a bad format. Start, service and finish all at the Rushworth rec reserve. No service crew required, Alfas only ever need fuel , windscreen cleaned and coffee and sandwiches for the crew.

Better get my act together and get the GTV6 rally ready!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on June 19, 2010, 03:34:53 PM
when is this i might come and watch part of it as its around the corner
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 19, 2010, 03:57:36 PM
Sorry Dehne should have put that in. Next Saturday night. Be great to see you there. There will be a speccie point or 2. Or, if you want your own speccie point, volunteer to do a road closure. They are still looking to fill a few more positions. Just a thought.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 26, 2010, 10:16:50 AM
Gtv6 passed scrutiny and is ready to rally. Nothing quite like 11th  hr prep. 

rushworth has had 20 mm of rain over night so waiting to hear if the event is a goer, some talk it may be a shortened version.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 26, 2010, 11:33:17 AM
Just had word that the event is good to go ,  bring it on
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on June 26, 2010, 11:40:12 AM
what time are you heading up there are you going through bendigo cannot make tonight but thought could have a coffee on ur way through
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 27, 2010, 12:36:10 AM
very unofficial scores , 6th outright 1st in class 1st senior cup great night and very slippery.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 27, 2010, 07:59:30 PM
A picture of the GTV6 just before leaving for scrutiny Thursday afternoon. I think it looks pretty good from a distance.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/IMG_2666.jpg)

Here are the unofficial scores of the Nissan Nightmoves

O/R Crew Car POINTS
1 Stephen Raymond/Glen Raymond Subaru Legacy 8:06
2 Simon Ellis/Ian Ellis Subaru Legacy RS 8:51
3 Gerard Blum(J)/Chris Bolton Hyundai Excel X3 13:14
4 Darren Roberts/Matthew Thompson Toyota Sprinter AE86 13:55
5 Cameron Jay/Eddie Corrales Ford Escort Mk 2 14:13
6 Greg Wyatt(S)/Dale Allan(S) Alfa Romeo Alfetta 14:24
7 Chas Mammi/Michael Mammi(J) Datsun Sunny 17:30
8 Phil Hurle(J)/Mahra Villis(J) Ford Escort 18:34
9 Mark Attwood/Richard Clough Ford Escort Mk 2 20:00
10 Tony Huggins/Steph Huggins Datsun Stanza 20:55
11 Darren Webster/Tim Clark Toyota Rav 4 20:56
12 Rod Greenwood/Paul Mahony Toyota Sprinter AE86 21:19
13 Peter Lazdins/Allan Sheeran Nissan Stanza 23:11
14 Stuart Schoof/Andrew Ryan Datsun 1200 23:16
15 Stephen Coutts-Smith/Steph Richards(J) Ford Escort Mk 2 23:28
16 Steve Porter/Leigh Garrioch Mazda RX7 23:58
17 Leeham Bansagi/Peter Agrotis Datsun 1200 24:16
18 Peter Canning/Darren Dorcich Datsun 1600 24:58
19 Aidan O'Halloran/Deborah Howard-Jones Suzuki Swift GTi 26:26
20 Brett Williams/Andrew Ormesher Datsun 1600 26:47
21 Stephen Wilson/Chris Petrie Datsun Stanza 26:50
22 Paul Williams/Jeremy Egan Toyota Levin TE27 26:56
23 Michael Ward/Di Bailey Toyota Corolla 27:55
24 Geoff Hale/Alan Baker Volkswagen Golf GLS 28:06
25 Ryan Humphries/Kim Barson Toyota Corolla 28:21
26 Ian Curry/Michael Curry Datsun 1600 28:37
27 Daniel Rossi/Simon Rowland Chrysler Lancer 29:40
28 Adrian Johns/David Johns Mitsubishi Galant 36:19
29 Adam Coates/Rachael Coates Hyundai Lantra 45:33
30 Cary Seabrook(J)/Tyler Seabrook(J) Datsun Stanza 55:30

Did not finish the event
Lachlan Smith/Simon Ilsley Ford Escort Mk 1 Blown diff (6)
Tim Smith/Hayley Blacker Datsun 180B No reason given (6)
Daryl King/Chris Barrett Toyota Corolla No power (6)
Sean Hudgson/Phil Nicholas Datsun 1600 Drive shaft (6)
Michael Trucano(S)/Doug Fernie(S) Datsun
Sunny Alternator (FB)
Simon Boyer/Simon Thompson Datsun 1600 Radiator (FA)
David Lawrance/Darren Miller Datsun 1600 No reason given (5)
Keith Cuttle/Tyler Cuttle(J) Holden Commodore VC Bogged (5)
David Wellings/Scott Jennison Datsun 1600 Clutch (4)
Duncan Elliot/Zarny Tran Toyota Corolla No reason given (D)
Rowan Woollard/Russell Woollard Nissan Bluebird Sick navigator (D)
Thomas Davidson/James Davidson Chrysler Lancer
LA Overheating (C)
Adam Bloomfield/Rebecca Sharlott Holden Commodore
VH Exhaust (B)
Mark Millar/Dion Clayton Datsun 240Z Diff mount (1)

It was a pretty tough event. Conditions were far from ideal. Although not raining during the event, there had been a lot of rain in the 2 days leading up to it. There was a lot of water lying, particularly in the insides of corners, sometimes covering the whole road. It made the roads a bit hard to read as you never new what the next corner would bring. All part of the challenge.
Some stages were canceled so we ended up with 5 stages b4 service and 2 after service.
We went out with all guns blazing and in fact were the fastest 2wd in stage 1. It soon became apparent that to stay on the edge could end in tears so we backed off a little so as to guarantee a finish and a straight car at the end. Having just repaired it after the BP the last thing i wanted was more panel damage!
Unofficially we are 6th outright, 1st in class and 1st senior cup. ( senior cup is run in VCRS. To be able to nominate for senior cup the combined age of the car, the navigator and the driver have to add up to at least 120 years. We add up to 130 )
I am happy with the result.
By the end, the car was so dirty i reckon it must have been 60 kgs heavier and it handled like it. The wheels were full of mud and stones making the transports on the bitumen almost unpleasant.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/IMG_2670.jpg)
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/IMG_2671.jpg)

You might notice in the 1st pic the fuel cap appears to be taped up. Actually the fuel cap is missing. My bad! Filling up at a service stop on the Hume, I forgot to refit the cap and off we drove. Realized after several K's. We turned around and went looking but no luck.I shoved a rag in it to get to Rushworth, and while Dale was plotting the maps i set about finding something to keep the fuel in the tank whilst we did rh corners. The best solution i could come up with was a dektite jammed in the filler and the screw cap off an oil bottle inside that. Some race tape to keep the dektite from being dragged out by passing shrubberies and bingo, problem solved. ( anyone with any spare fuel caps out there? call me, call me now)

This afternoon i made a real mess of the BP car wash. Took down the trolley jack, and removed all the wheels and washed all the mud off. Outside and underneath the car is now squeaky clean, just have to work on cleaning the inside.

2 weeks until the X trial in Dunolly. July 10th. Might catch up with Dehne then? 
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on June 27, 2010, 10:04:50 PM
i have to work then but i have a few fuel caps if you want im heading down to melb on thurs can bring or i can post to you
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on June 28, 2010, 01:28:15 PM
well done again, and glad you didnt prang that new front end and light box... ;D
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 28, 2010, 08:34:21 PM
Quote from: dehne on June 27, 2010, 10:04:50 PM
i have to work then but i have a few fuel caps if you want im heading down to melb on thurs can bring or i can post to you
Thursday isn't a real good day for me, I'm going to be stuck in the dentist for a while. I have a few crowns to get. Really looking forward to that!!!!
Maybe you could use the post option. Also while you are stuffing envelopes, have you got any spare of those plastic slide bushes from 90 steering columns? seem to have miss placed the ones off the '79 sedan.
Be great if you have.
Quote from: 116gtv on June 28, 2010, 01:28:15 PM
well done again, and glad you didnt prang that new front end and light box... ;D
I have to say Martin, The thought of more panel damage was in the back of my mind all night. I was driving a little on the conservative side. I was also wishing i had better tyres. those babies did the BP. Over 2500 K's on them. They weren't gripping quite as i would have liked. Still, a good advert for Dunlop. Stuckey tyres might be able to use the result to advantage.
The light pod came up ok i thought. I was going to knock up a fibreglass mold and get something a little more curvy, but i just ran out of time. Beat the old one into submission and gave it a thick coat of paint to hide the scratches. The reflectors not so.. had to get new ones. I am trying rally 4000 fog inserts with 35 watt zenon kits. They are amazing things. They give a super flat beam that just about goes behind the car as well. It was a shame there wasn't any fog around on Saturday night. I think they might be real handy in dust too.
I have to comment on the suspension. The guys at Quadrant really did a great job building the shockers. I have come to realize that you really don't notice the suspension at all while you are driving. Full noise sideways the last thing you need is to be worried that it may put a foot wrong. This car doesn't ever. It just works as it should. Leaves me to pick the lines i want, without me wondering if it is going to respond as i ask. Love their work. One thing i am going to do is put some spacers between the front shockers and the wishbones so I can have more droop. This will limit the travel on compression but, on full travel now, the tyres rub on the underside of the guards. On the gravel, droop is just as important. Gotta try to keep the wheels planted as much as possible.

I am ready and looking forward to the X Trial.
This event is run by Dave Smith. A very cunning and sadistic director. It is more navigation than speed, although there are usually a couple of drivers stages. I notice Simon Francis is an entrant, i guess navigating in the Gemini (can i mention that marque without getting a red card?) with Liz driving. I wish them better luck than they had in the Challenge of Clubs. Alternator issues i believe.

Entry list so far,
1.     Brian CANNY / Paul CROSBIE
2.     Michael FORESHEW / Rick WALTON
3.     Elizabeth GILHOME / Simon FRANCIS
4.     Geoffrey HALE / Alan BAKER
5.     Steve ASHTON / Ross RUNNALLS
6.     David ALLWRIGHT / Keith MORRIS
7.     Robert CRANSTON / Karl GREALY
8.     David OFFICER / Kate OFFICER
9.     Kevin MILLARD / Tom BILSTON
10.    Kim HARPER / Steuart SNOOKS
11.    Doug FERNIE / Geoff FLOYD
12.    Robert DYER / Jenny POLLOCK
13.    Peter PARRY / Fred LAKERINK
14.    Michael WARD / Di BAILEY
15.    Alan UPTON / Mark LAIDLAY
16.    Graham WALLIS / Phil NICHOLAS
(in the mail John ELLIS / Adrian SIETSMA)
(engine dependent Keith WINTER /Peter MAURER)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 29, 2010, 08:14:32 PM
Paul, thanks for the kind words.

I had the pleasure of talking to a guy who professed to build the engines for Greg Carr in a servo in Kilmore one night. He told me that the Carr GTV6 had 270 BHP and that it had issues with conrods. Apparently it was a 1 event engine, requiring rebuilding with new rods after every event. Not sure I could ever afford to do that!
My point being that it was a very special Alfa and indeed when i get the 3L 24 valve in mine it will have similar BHP without the longevity issues, However it will not be able to run in the ARC as it will not be PRC or Group N.
Not that i have any desire to drive ARC. I can rally at club level for a whole year on what 1 ARC event would cost.

Now, if someone out there has a bucket of money to give away, i would be happy to talk to them.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: alfagtv58 on June 30, 2010, 09:28:04 AM
I see AROCA member Brian Canny is entered....say hi to him for me  ;D
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 30, 2010, 05:29:03 PM
Some pics kindly supplied by John Doutch

This is in the first stage. John always puts up a board warning us of the impending flash. For some reason John has a water fetish. If there is a ford or a big puddle John will be lurking some where near. Mat will remember him from the Challenge of Clubs. If you look closely at my face i look like a startled rabbit. Actually Dale and I are pissing ourselves laughing. Here is John standing on the side of the track in what looks like a full cover green rubber suit. Looked like someone out of an espionage movie.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/Wyatt01.jpg)
This pic is after service, Stage 5 i think. He is standing on the exit of a Turn very hard right. So I throw it in as you can in an Alfa. You see how forgiving the suspension is. That is a high speed entry. If there was a rear stabiliser fitted you would be facing the other direction by there. Gotta love the soft European suspension. Great advert for Quantums re-valved Bilsteins. Thanks guys, i'll get you a framed one of these for your wall.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/Wyatt02.jpg)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 30, 2010, 08:09:05 PM
Quote from: paul edwards on June 30, 2010, 09:03:52 AM
    l don't know a lot about the ARC,  what sort of mods, and or regs would the GTV6 be allowed back then?

Paul, My GTV6 could enter the ARC as it is. Any PRC, Group N or Group A vehicle is Eligible to enter. Classic Rally Cars run at the front of the field as a crowd pleaser/ warm up/ road sweepers. Current PRC rules would prohibit putting the 24 valve in. It would become a Club Rally Car and as such is only able to compete up to State level events. The original plan was to fit 3 Litre Crank, Liners and Pistons to the 2.5 block, fit large valves and manifolds, BUT, the cost of doing this would run to maybe 6-8 K. Of course one could just drop in a 3 Litre  out of a 75 and just change the engine number and no one could tell the difference ( cost free, i have one in the shed) but one would never do that. The 24 v 3 Litre i have cost 1 K so thats why i am going down that route. I don't intend to contest National events so i don't see any problems with it. I am so looking forward to another 100 HP or so, Working on the brake upgrade at the moment. Thinking i might have the 24 valve in for 1st event next year. I have a few more events to run this year. Including the VRC attached to Rally Victoria ( ARC ) in November. It is in my backyard ( Noojee ) and i just love those roads.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on June 30, 2010, 08:24:42 PM
The provisional results have just surfaced.

View them herehttp://www.nissancarclub.org.au/Events/Downloads/2010NissanNightmovesVCRS2/Provisional%20Resutls.pdf (http://www.nissancarclub.org.au/Events/Downloads/2010NissanNightmovesVCRS2/Provisional%20Resutls.pdf)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 01, 2010, 10:12:16 PM
Quote from: paul edwards on July 01, 2010, 07:48:52 PM
Hi Greg
Just taking another look at that ripper pic. ;D ;D ;D
If it's not to much trouble, can l get a copy of that pic, l'll stick it up on the photo wall in the N.E.C.C. rooms. They will love it. Actually l need one for the shed as well, can l try for two :) ;) 
Cheers Paul
FULL NOISE... FULLY SIDEWAYS.............

Paul, the picture belongs to John Doutch. He prints and sells them for a very reasonable fee. Give him an email to "John Doutch" <johnd@hard.net.au> I'm sure he will be more than happy to accommodate your request. If you want, get him to photoshop away the mirror, and insert a big tongue pointing right :) :) :)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 04, 2010, 08:36:50 PM
The Furthers are out for the X Trial, next Saturday in Dunolly. Rain is forecast for the weekend so it may well be a wet event again ( at least no dust!) Entry list below.

Finally getting somewhere with my front brakes upgrade. I have had some grooved and dimpled 156 GTA discs for quite some time. These are 305 mm diameter and i have some Wilwood superlite calipers but the sticking point is finding some wheels that these brakes will fit inside. here is the dimensions of brakes and calipers
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/frontbrakedimensionscopy.jpg)
The discs require an 8 mm spacer between the hub flange and the disc. This gets the disc and consequently the caliper further away from the wheel so it has more chance of fitting. I know the easy way is to go to 16 inch wheels but nobody uses 16 inch rally tyres. they are available but only in 60 profile. I'm thinking this has the rim too close to the rocks. Not interested.
But these wheels not only look pretty special, but they comfortably fit the brakes inside.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/CXS1570_l.jpg)
Here is the CAD drawing showing the clearance.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/CompomotiveCXS-1570ET350107.jpg)
I have ordered some of these wheels in silver. I think that silver will look pretty special considering the GTV6 is painted silver on the sills and lwr doors. They will be on the proverbial slow boat from China so not getting them for a little while. Give me time to make the caliper brackets and think about some sort of mechanical hand brake so i can fit the wilwood calipers to the rear with the peugeot dics.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 08, 2010, 06:28:46 PM
Last night was scrutiny for "The X Trial" Someones GTV6 refused to go. Turned the key, Started whirred, but engine didn't go round. Funny that, drove it to Sunday morning coffee club at Lakeside, not a hint of a problem. Just goes to show you, you never know what the day is going to bring.
Out with the starter and fitted a new drive. 1.5 hrs later it roars into life , but too late for scrutiny. CoC has kindly allowed me to get regional, bless his heart.
I have regional booked for 4:06 tomorrow in Hallam.
Bugger of a time, traffic will be heavy, and, every "P" plater in a VN wants to drag you at the lights. I'll save the dragging till i see them on a dirt road.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 09, 2010, 09:18:13 PM
The GTV6 passed scrutiny with no probs, so it's all set for Saturday night in Dunolly.
This is the final entry list, which is a fair bit different to the one posted a couple of days ago.

Tayell Automotive 2010 X-Trial - Competitors List - as at 8-7-2010
>
> Car No. Start Time Driver Navigator HRA Grade Team
> 1 18:00 Graham WALLIS Phil NICHOLAS A/A TBA
> 2 18:02 Doug FERNIE Geoff FLOYD A/A TBA
> 3 18:04 David OFFICER Kate OFFICER A/A TBA
> 4 18:06 Kim HARPER Steuart SNOOKS A/A TBA
> 5 18:08 Steve ASHTON Ross RUNNALLS A/A TBA
> 6 18:10 Alan UPTON Mark LAIDLAY A/A with Biggles & Aggy
> 7 18:12 Robert DYER Jenny POLLOCK A/C TBA
> 8 18:14 Mathew FENNER Rob BRIDE A/C TBA
> 19 18:16 Matt PHILIP Matt DE VAUS B/A TBA
> 9 18:18 Joel WALD Ashley McBAIN B/B TBA
> 10 18:20 Geoffrey HALE Alan BAKER B/B TBA
> 11 18:22 Doug NORMAN Rob KNIGHT B/B French Connection
> 12 WITHDRAWN
> 13 18:24 Gerard BLUM Stephanie RICHARDS B/C TBA
> 14 18:26 Brian CANNY Paul CROSBIE B/C French Connection
> 15 18:28 Robert CRANSTON Karl GREALY B/C TBA
> 16 18:30 Kevin MILLARD Tom BILSTON C/B TBA
> 17 18:32 Peter PARRY Fred LAKERINK C/B TBA
> 18 18:34 Greg WYATT Dale ALLAN C/C TBA
> 20 18:36 Michael FORESHEW Rick WALTON C/C TBA
> 21 18:38 Elizabeth GILHOME Simon FRANCIS C/C TBA
> 22 18:40 David ALLWRIGHT Keith MORRIS C/C TBA
> 23 18:42 Michael WARD Di BAILEY C/C TBA
> 24 18:44 John ELLIS Adrian SIETSMA C/C TBA
> 25 18:46 David McKENZIE Ewen McKENZIE C/C TBA
> 26 18:48 Bruce SHEPHERD Tim SHEPHERD C/C TBA
> 27 18:50 Craig NEAVE Ashleigh STAUDE C/C TBA
> 28 18:52 John WINKS Campbell WINKS C/C TBA

I'll say g'day to Brian Canny for you Phil. I notice that Tom Bilston is entered under AROCA, probably have a chat to him too.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 12, 2010, 07:35:02 AM
The X Trial, what a great event. the crew briefing went like this, " very very slippery, very very greasy, everyone will have an off" partly true, we didn't have an off.
some sections were like a ice slalom for km's on end. throttle control was the order of the night. thank goodness for the smooth torquey v6, but it really needed a forklift knob, oh , and some tread on the tyres. Still wearing the BP and the nightmoves rubber.
Give you a more comprehensive report when i have more time, Thats if anyone wants to hear?
Unofficial results below,

O/R Crew Car POINTS
1 Steve Ashton/Ross Runnalls Mitsubishi Galant 30
2 Kim Harper/Steuart Snooks Ford Escort Mk 1 Twin Cam 40
=3 Graham Wallis/Phil Nicholas Peugeot 203 43
=3 Joel Wald/Ashley McBain Datsun 1600 43
5 David Officer/Kate Officer Mitsubishi Colt Galant 44
6 Doug Fernie/Geoff Floyd Datsun P510 Bluebird 45
7 Alan Upton/Mark Laidlay Datsun Bluebird P510 57
8 David McKenzie/Ewen McKenzie Volvo 244DL 59
9 Greg Wyatt/Dale Allan Alfa Romeo GTV 6 64
10 Matt Philip/Matt de Vaus Mercedes-Ben 300SE 68
11 David Allwright/Keith Morris Chrysler Lancer LB 85
12 Mathew Fenner/Rob Bride Range Rover 87
13 Michael Ward/Di Bailey Toyota Corolla 93
=14 Geoff Hale/Alan Baker Volkswagen Golf GLS 114
=14 Doug Norman/Robert Knight Peugeot 504 114
16 Peter Parry/Fred Lakerink Hyundai Excel 117
17 Bruce Shepherd/Tim Shepherd Peugeot 505 196
18 Robert Cranston/Karl Grealy Toyota Celica SA63 199
19 Craig Neave/Ashleigh Staude Mitsubishi Sigma GJ 203
20 Michael Foreshew/Rick Walton Ford Cortina Mk II 235
21 John Ellis/Adrian Sietsma Fiat 1500 Mk III 327

2 Major Controls Missed
22 Robert Dyer/Jenny Pollock Datsun Sunny PB210 301
23 Kevin Millard/Larry Walker Datsun 1600 318

4 Major Controls Missed
24 Elizabeth Gilhome/Simon Francis Isuzu Gemini TF 418
25 Brian Canny/Paul Crosbie Peugeot 504 Ti 435
26 John Winks/Campbell Winks Volkswagen Beetle 503

6 Major Controls Missed
27 Gerard Blum/Steph Richards Hyundai Excel x3 568
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: scott.venables on July 12, 2010, 08:30:03 PM
Greg, well done on another great result.  I didn't see your post about scrutineering until later, I finish work at 4pm in Hallam.  Where was it out of curiosity?

Scott



Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 12, 2010, 09:40:33 PM
Quote from: paul edwards on July 12, 2010, 08:29:29 AM
Hi Greg
Well done, l like your reports,  ;) ;) ;)men in green rubber suits, taking flashy photos with a fetish for big puddles and water, all done in the middle of the night. :o :o :o You have been having way to much fun out there, sounds like you need new rubbers as well ;D ;D ;D. ;) ;) ;)
Yes Paul, new tyres are required. The backs are down to 25%. New rubber on Saturday night would have made a huge difference. 
John was at it again, Found him lurking near a huge puddle, may as well call it a lake. Covered the whole track. The problem we had was that it had a VW Golf stranded in the middle of it. Couple of crew paddling around trying to coax it to go. We arrive and we are kinda in a hurry ( it is a rally you know) sum it up in an instant. The only way through is right where Doutchy is standing. Give it a gun and line him up, hoping he has enough sense to get out of the way. I didn't hear a bump and a flash went off , so i guessed he was OK. As it turned out, we had to revisit that inland sea again after another via point. The Volksy was still submerged and Doutchy was standing back in the same spot. Some people are slow learners! I lined him up again and got half blinded by the flash, I'll be interested to see the photos. I know he is alright as he popped up again in the last stage. 150 metres in there is a "caution ford". Who do you reckon is there? There was a little water in it, apparently he was stacking logs in it to raise the water level. Might try giving him the knick name of "beaver" after that effort. We were told that we didn't need to slow down for it. But, I am not going to dive into a cautioned ford blind at full noise particularly at that stage of the event. But i wasn't going slow either. I think if he had of been 200 metres further on he would have got way better shots. Great sand road, sweeping 90 degree lh corner with great visiblity, we nailed that, "FULL NOISE SIDEWAYS" Felt good, probably looked good too.

Quote from: paul edwards on July 12, 2010, 08:29:29 AM
What happened to Gerard Blum/ Steph Richards? he is a bit of a gun, he had a great result in the Night moves 3rd. but not so good this time did he have another big crash? And whats with the bloke in the 240 Volvo ahead of you ;) ;) ;)

Ged had a few issues on the night. He kept the shiny side up. Lost his terra trip in the maze. Without a terra trip you were toast. funny thing rally, easy to go from hero to zero in a blink.

The blokes in the Volvo deserve a bit of luck, they are the pair that got lost in the BP and had to walk 30 K's to a farm house.

I have to tell you why we got 64 points. 34 points was penalty time ( remember winner got 30 points penalty time) and 30 points was a wd into a major control. In a rare moment, Dale mistakenly plotted us into a finish control from the south instead of from the west. IF we had of taken the other road ( every other car did) we would have gone another kilometer and taken maybe 1 minute. 35 points, would have given us easy 2nd outright. As Kim Harper said " Second to Ashton/Runnalls is really a win" . I would be lying if i said i wasn't disappointed, but hey, i still had the best time driving the event and stuff happens. One day I'll put it in the shrubbery and Dale will be disappointed too.

Quote from: scott.venables on July 12, 2010, 08:30:03 PM
Greg, well done on another great result.  I didn't see your post about scrutineering until later, I finish work at 4pm in Hallam.  Where was it out of curiosity?

Scott, Thanks mate. I got Steve Thompson to do it. He works in Wedgewood road. Met him in the car park as he knocked off. Great guy. Traffic wasn't that bad either. Probably cause it was still school holidays i guess.

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 15, 2010, 09:37:05 PM
The X Trial provisional results just came thru.

This is the list of awards. Good to see Ged and Stephanie got an encouragement award.


      Tayell Automotive The X Trial 2010
      PROVISIONAL RESULTS.


Results will become final on Sunday 18th of July at 6:00 pm unless any protests are received before this time by the Clerk of Course.

Awards will be presented to the following crews: (The organisers may combine multiple awards).

Overall
   1st   Steve Ashton / Ross Runnalls
      2nd   Kim Harper / Steuart Snooks
   =3rd   Graham Wallis / Phil Nicholas
   =3rd   Joel Wald / Ashley McBain

H68 (Historic Pre 1968)
   1st   Kim Harper / Steuart Snooks
      2nd   Graham Wallis / Phil Nicholas
      3rd   Doug Fernie / Geoff Floyd

H81 (Historic Pre 1981)
      1st   Steve Ashton / Ross Runnalls
      2nd   David Officer / Kate Officer
      3rd   David McKenzie / Ewen McKenzie

P81 (PRC Pre 1981)
      1st   Joel Wald / Ashley McBain
      2nd   David Allwright / Keith Morris
      3rd   Michael Ward / Di Bailey

PM (PRC Modern)
      1st   Greg Wyatt / Dale Allan

CRC (Classic Rally Cars)
      1st   No Entries

RC (Road Cars)
      1st   John Winks / Campbell Winks

ORC (Other Rally Cars)
      1st   Elizabeth Gilhome / Simon Francis

Novice Crews (Driver and Navigator to be HRA Grade C)
      1st   David McKenzie / Ewen McKenzie
      2nd   Greg Wyatt / Dale Allan
     3rd   David Allwright / Keith Morris

The Tayell Automotive Encouragement Award   Gerard Blum / Stephanie Richards

Tayell Automotive X Trial 2010 Team Award

The X Team   Car 4   Kim Harper / Steuart Snooks   Ford Escort Mk 1 Twin Cam
         Car 9   Joel Wald / Ashley McBain   Datsun 1600
         Car 23   Michael Ward / Di Bailey   Toyota Corolla



Pleez chek the spelin' of y're monikar 'cos we carvz 'em as ya seez 'em.

And John Doutch sent me some pics from the trial. He was complaining that they weren't very good. I have to disagree. I don't know how you circuit guys feel about pics of your efforts on the track, but i reckon that they are so important. You can't compete forever and a photographic record of your major events is something to be cherished. More power to your lens John.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/Wyatt01-1.jpg)
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/Wyatt02-1.jpg)
Look at the front under the bumper, water pouring out. looks like i was a bit slow getting the wipers on.(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/WyattCrop1.jpg)
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/WyattCrop2.jpg)
John cropped these to show me the whites of our eyes. He say stress, i say concertration!
and my favourite
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/Wyatt03.jpg)
this one was taken in the ford. Looking at the attitude of the car, front high and back low with mud flaps touching the ground, I'm hard on the go pedal. I am guessing it had a long exposure, flashing early and leaving the shutter open as the car goes past, with just the headlights being captured. Look at the tree just ahead of the car. Can you see a remote slave flash unit fixed half way up? Great technical shot. Love it, John.

Provisional results below.

Tell us your story Simon.

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 20, 2010, 09:17:22 PM
Entry in for the next event. Thomson Valley Rally on August 7th. Based in Toongabbie. 120 KM's competitive in 2 x 60 KM loops with a central service in between. Fully route charted on some of the best VRC standard roads. This is run by HRA ( Historic Rally Association ) and has no class for my car. I have to enter as an ORV ( other rally vehicle). Pity the GTV6 wasn't brought out in 1980, then i could be h81.

This event will be a road race. See how we stack up.

Web page http://hra.org.au/index.php?q=node/1706 (http://hra.org.au/index.php?q=node/1706)

Thought i might have got a comment back re the photos from the X Trial. I am going to get the last one printed on canvas, think it would lend it's self to that type of medium.

More photos from Doutchy http://www.hra.org.au/index.php?q=node/1911 (http://www.hra.org.au/index.php?q=node/1911)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: alfagtv58 on July 22, 2010, 12:04:35 PM
Quote from: redalfaracing on July 20, 2010, 09:17:22 PM
Thought i might have got a comment back re the photos from the X Trial. I am going to get the last one printed on canvas, think it would lend it's self to that type of medium.

Greg, that last photo....straight to the pool room.

You might have got some more comments if you create a new thread and topic for each event rather than adding to this project thread....then again I may be wrong, its been known to happen you know  ;D
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 26, 2010, 08:54:09 AM
Phil, i take your suggestion and have continued the discussion on the TVR here. http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=5294 (http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=5294)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 27, 2010, 09:10:31 PM
I was surprised today, my new wheels arrived. I'll get some rubber fitted and give you a peek. ;D
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on August 10, 2010, 09:26:46 PM
Picture of the GTV6 in the last rally. Not a real good shot, but you can sorta see the new wheels.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/TVR%202010/Greg02.jpg)

No more rallies for a while. I have other projects on the go .
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on December 22, 2010, 08:36:14 PM
Should I ?

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on December 22, 2010, 08:56:45 PM
Definitely.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: scuzzyGTV on December 23, 2010, 09:12:51 AM
QuoteDefinitely.
+1 but in that metro 6R4!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on December 23, 2010, 10:47:02 PM
You can keep those money pit 4Wd  cars.  fast  while they are going, but when they break, and they all do, they cost a whack to repair. I can build a gtv6 for the cost of a Subaru gearbox!
From a spectator point of view a well driven 2wd is way more impressive and if it sounds good too, all the better.
Pencil in feb 26 and in have a look. 2 spectator points. You be the judge.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: scuzzyGTV on December 24, 2010, 09:13:35 AM
would love to come & watch, but i'm on that other island  ;)
yes more complex systems cost more & oversteer does look truely excellent. i think targa shows that with the big ol' V8's looking spectacular against the 4wd's.
anyway good luck with it, and please do write up the post rally review, as i for one love reading them!
scott.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 13, 2011, 10:33:28 PM
Only 2 weeks to the kick off of the Victorian rally season.

We have entered the 2011 Millard Memorial Rally at Heywood on Feb 26th. Held in the Anya state forest it is usually a mix of fast flowing roads and head scratching navigation. Run this year as 2 Divisions. Division 1 in daylight starts with a khanacross test at the Heywood festival then a few forest stages followed by another khanacross test.
Dinner break then after dark Division 2 starts with another khanacross test followed by some navigation night stages.
Haven't done a lot to the car since August, except enjoy driving it. I'll give it a spanner check during the week, scrutiny at Ringwood Wednesday week.

BRING IT ON!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 25, 2011, 09:37:42 AM
Got our competition number, car 18
not sure what is going on with the start order, the guy who won the HRA championship last year got 24. There is some talk of doing a fine tune to the grading on the night.

Funny, there only 22 entries and for the Eildon 1600 on the same night only 45.

I would have thought all the frustrated rally drivers would have been chomping at the bit, i know i am!

Passed scrutiny on Wednesday night no dramas, but on the way home i detected a slight miss at 6000 rpm, got some new plugs to put in today, can't have the engine sounding like a Jap through the speccie point. Everyone always comments how crisp and clean it sounds as it powers away.

Let you know how we get on. Hopefully there will be someone taking pics somewhere.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: aggie57 on February 25, 2011, 02:01:25 PM
Welcome back Greg - always good to see your latest post.

FYI the cream car is stripped apart from the suspension.  As soon as I get a spare day I'm taking it up to Jim's to start work on the shell.  But man was that cream car rusty!!  

Funny thing though - turns out that car was first owned by Paul Gulliver, who not only posts on this forum but lives 1 street from me and who I've known for many years. Small world.

Alister

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Paul Gulliver on February 25, 2011, 02:36:50 PM
Alister,

I have now stopped crying after seeing what happened to the first " new " Alfa Romeo i ever purchased back in 1980.

Nice to hear that parts of it live on in Group S.

I'm also using it as my current screen saver to remind me of what a little bit of rust & neglect can do to your pride & joy.

( The colour is Piper Yellow)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Neil Choi on February 25, 2011, 03:09:19 PM
Off-topic, but Alister, what colour will you go with, nice to be back to that cream which is what my one will be, back to original. 

Reminds me of my GT which I have as a screen saver too.

Neil
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: aggie57 on February 25, 2011, 03:19:26 PM
Poor Greg - we're taking over his long running thread!

Probably Piper Yellow but also thinking White.  Ray Williams in NZ had a 1980ish one in White that he raced and it looked great.

I'll start a thread for this when I have something to show.  For now it's just two shells and a pile of parts :-X
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 28, 2011, 06:45:18 AM
Unofficial results from the Millard Memorial,

O/R Crew Car POINTS
1 Greg Wyatt/Dale Allan Alfa Romeo Alfetta 33:00
2 Alan Upton/Mark Laidlay Datsun 1600 33:45
3 Kim Harper/Steuart Snooks Ford Escort Twin Cam 35:02
4 David Johns/Les Shadwick Mitsubishi Lancer LA 38:10
5 Darryl Brown/Monica Burt Nissan Skyline 39:05
6 Graham Wallis/Phil Nicholas Peugeot 203 49:05
7 Jamie Robertson/Daniel Young Subaru WRX STi 55:09
8 Kim Barclay/Andrew Hutchins Datsun 180B 60:06
9 Keith Winter/Peter Maurer Volvo 144S 75:58
10 Adam Becker/Dion Becker Toyota Corolla 78:02
11 Doug Norman/Robert Knight Peugeot 504 108:44
12 Geoff Hale/Alan Baker Volkswagen Golf GLS 120:12
13 Daniel Rossi/Simon Rowland Chrysler Lancer 134:04
14 Robert Dyer/Jenny Pollock Datsun Sunny PB210 143:59
Did not finish the event
Bob Brown/Sarah Hargreaves Nissan Skyline Control closed (T6)
Derrick White/Nathan Lowe Peugeot 504 Ti Sick navigator (T6)
Stephen Richards/Fred Lakerink Ford Escort Mk2 Starter motor (C6)
Joel Wald/Ashley McBain Datsun Stanza Clutch (C5)
Michael Conway/Jenny Cole Ford Escort Mk
2 Broken suspension (C1)

Full report later, when i get a bit more sleep!

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on February 28, 2011, 07:08:34 AM
Uhhh, does that mean you won?  If so, well done!!  Does the car still have the 2.5?

Quote from: aggie57 on February 25, 2011, 03:19:26 PM
Poor Greg - we're taking over his long running thread!

Probably Piper Yellow but also thinking White.  Ray Williams in NZ had a 1980ish one in White that he raced and it looked great.

Racing Ray Williams?  I only ever knew him as a Porsche driver.  Unless there are two Ray Williams'.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on February 28, 2011, 08:33:22 PM
Quote from: Sheldon McIntosh on February 28, 2011, 07:08:34 AM
Uhhh, does that mean you won?   Does the car still have the 2.5?

Yes Sheldon, We did win, and yes, still a bog standard 2.5 engine.




It was a very well run event. The guys from SEAC were friendly and helpful. If you ever want to do a rally, hillclimb or a khanacross, couldn't do any better than going to one of their events.
There was a khanacross on the Saturday. We decided not to enter, but helped out on the day replacing witches hats as they were dislodged from the side of the track. (there were many @ 5 seconds penalty each)
The khanacross and trial are run as part of the Wood, Wine and Roses Festival. They also have mower racing, freestyle MX and a whole range of things you expect to see at a  country festival.

We were in the Red Alfa Romeo GTV6, car 18.
C1, We all had to do 2 laps of the full khanacross course (2km) then sent on our way to the second competitive in the Mt Clay forest.
Disaster struck for one crew in an Escort. First gear change in the khanacross they broke a leaf spring and so had to retire hurt. How would you feel, i thought. Drive all the way to Heywood (380 km from Melbourne) and only do 50 metres competitve? Well, we very nearly found out! Third corner in the khana test was a very tight hairpin right. Rev limiter in 2nd gear, hard on brakes, down change to 1st, throw it in, full throttle and full opposite lock, it felt good!!! apparently it looked good, but it smelt really, really bad! Burning rubber smell. Hmmm. 2 corners on, really tight left hand hairpin. Attacked it the same way, same result. I indicated to Dale that maybe we shouldn't do that again, so i drove a bit more sedately from that point on. Not as much fun, not as fast, but smelt so so much better. Time 2.32, 1 second behind fastest 2wd. happy with that, but could have been so much faster! While Dale is doing his paperwork thing i get out and lift the bonnet. Shredded rubber everywhere. Front dough nut on the tailshaft  is looking very tired. One segment is completely gone. Well actually still there, but distributed all over the engine. Dale starts to hand the card back, thinking that it's all over. No! i say I'll nurse this thing to the end.
From that point on, no wheelspin starts, smooth gear changes, no slamming back gears  and no revving over 4500 rpm. Kinda took some of the fun away, but hey, the result was worth it.
At this stage we are about 14th on the road. 15 km of competitive with a mix of goat tracks, minor tracks and some very fast flowing roads, all fully route charted. Dropped 2.21 tootling along with a fear of a blowup. The fastest was a local in a Datsun 180B, dropping 1.29. He was fast, i thought at that point this guy, with his local knowledge of the roads would probably win, as he did last year. The WRX dropped 1.35 and being an ARC spec car ( anti lag, intercooler sprays etc ) should have won, but the driver was a novice, so i reckon we would pass him sooner or later.
Kim Harper in his twin cam Escort finished the first stage with about 150 mm of toe out on the front and almost undriveable. Dale climbed under it and with a shifter and a pair of vice grips got it back to a manageable setting. something got itself horribly bent going thru a deep hole. Gave no trouble for the rest of the night. One of the other Escorts stuffed the starter motor at the finish of C2 and got push started but pulled out during the night because of it and Derick White ( winner of the BP rally) had to stop and do a repair when fuel started spraying on the windscreen. One of the bolts that hold the fuel rail on stripped and the rail came off. A worm drive hose clamp got it up and running again but he dropped 11.17 in the process.
We then had to compete back down the same course for C3. I was feeling a little more confident that the driveshaft would stay connected so used a bit more aggression on the way back. Missed cleaning it by 1 second, 4 others did clean it. On the way we passed Derick White on the side of the road, stopped and out of the car. Different problem this time. Eventually, he found that the ecu had unplugged itself.
We had a dinner break at Heywood, waiting for it to get dark. Our scores were totalled and we re-started in fastest to slowest order. We were now 5th car on the road. Pretty happy about that. Not too far back but a couple of cars ahead of us to clear the tracks.
On the re start we had to do the khana test again. 1 second slower than the previous run, 2.34 .
Now it's off to Annya state forest for the remaining 5 stages. These are navigation, done  off maps.
C5 we drop 3.00 minutes, 5th fastest time. Sure enough, we pass the WRX. We find him obviously lost, coming the other way at us on a grotty. We dive into the bushes and let him pass. we don't see him again till service. We are now 4th on the road. A bit further on we find Joel Ward in his Stanza with a blown clutch. Shame, he was going real quick. Pass him and now we are 3rd on the road.
By now it is starting to drizzle. Less dust now and the occasional slick clay patch on the roads. The roads are generally very grippy though. The front tyres are working well and the back are letting go quite easily when i give it the message.
C6 we drop 5.01 which is the 3rd fastest time. The local guy in the 180b is putting in ripper times, but his engine is drinking heaps of water. Kim doesn't know where it is going but he has a 20 litre drum of water in the boot and he tops it up whenever he stops. He is doing really well and i still think he is going to get the big trophy.
This stage has a few navigational challenges, we had to find a totally unmapped road junction. The roads are very interesting to drive and Dale is working hard keeping the calls coming in time. A lot of the calls are only 100-300 metres apart. Sometimes the road we want are there and sometimes the road just turns, with the other mapped roads no longer existing. When they aren't there, it gets hard keeping track of exactly where you are. Dale keeps his cool and we get to the finish control with all the observations. The Escort driven by Steven Richards with the dud starter pulls out in this stage.
Off to service at the camp ground in the Annya state forest. We get to hop out and we have 20 minutes to fill in. As we don't have a service crew, no fuel, no parts, (not that we need any) we spend the time talking to other competitors as they turn up. All seem to have  a  tale of woe, except Graeme Wallis in his 203 Peugeot. According to him, it is still the best handling, most durable, all singing, all dancing car of all time. He does finish 6th in the end.
Kim in the 180b is there, pouring water into the radiator. He is missing a couple of driving lights from when he tipped it into a corner just a little too early, and came to rest wrapped around a tree. But he's young and you know how the young can see in the dark... I couldn't have got as far as he had with twice his lights, my eyes need HID's to tackle the forest at night. Kim had a couple of h1 Narva 150 mm halogens.
After service we head off to C7. There is a hold up while controls are set and 0 car clears the stage. I could have easily gone to sleep at this point. 30 odd minutes sitting in the dark waiting. It is too wet to stand around outside. If your clothes get wet, when you get going and you get hot, the windows fog up real quick. Finally the ok is given and we get going. We drop 3.30, the 2nd fastest time and I'm starting to feel like we can get a podium finish. Derrick White in his Peugeot 504 Ti calls it quits with a sick navigator, and Bob Brown get to the start of C7 to find the control closed so it's back to Heywood for him.
C8 starts with everyone doing a 4 km loop and coming back onto the same track 880 metres from the start. There is a passage control where the two tracks join, We arrive and a guy leans in the door, draws a smiley face  on our control card and lets us go, just as Darryl Brown in his Skyline shoots past. BUGGER!!!!! Now we have his dust for a couple of kms until we get to the point where he turns left and we turn right. This is a fairly long stage and blow me down, with a few kms to go, we catch the car in front, Alan Upton in his Datto 1600. We pass him and Alan starts to race us from behind. Great fun dicing through the trees with only metres between the bumpers. We slow to check a road we need to take and Alan passes us. With only a little way to go we are happy to follow him. Knowing i've  got the goods on him and could pass him at any time, even though I'm still not revving over 4500 rpm is a good feeling. We pass the flying finish right on his tail. his time 11.12 our time 9.15  3 seconds between us, means we beat him by 1.57 and we got easily the fastest time on that stage.  Off to C9, the final for the night.
We elect to bypass the 10 minute service on the way ( nothing to do, so why bother)
Kim in the 180b turns up, with a few more lights missing and fur all over the light bar. Apparently a roo got in between the "b" and where it was pointing. He had been to service to tip more water into the radiator. Still doing good times but with a missed info he was no longer in the hunt. Bloody good job though.
C9 was tight and with a couple of dubious mileages. We get through alright but have a very conservative time. 9th fastest. But as it turned out, we had already done enough to get the top spot on the podium. My first one.
What a great car, and a great job by the navigator.
I'll be back next year to defend the trophy. With an engine that will spin at 6500 rpm all night.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Mat Francis on February 28, 2011, 09:56:31 PM
You should save these write ups for the magazine! Awesome story.

I will have to get out and do another control at something a little more local.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on February 28, 2011, 11:06:31 PM
Awesome work, and an excellent story.  Nice one.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: aggie57 on March 01, 2011, 06:59:40 AM
Nice one Greg.  Well done!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: aggie57 on March 01, 2011, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: Sheldon McIntosh on February 28, 2011, 07:08:34 AM

Racing Ray Williams?  I only ever knew him as a Porsche driver.  Unless there are two Ray Williams'.

Yep - same one.  Weirdest thing ; yesterday the latest Christophorus arrived and in the Aus/NZ section there was an article on him.  It included a few paragraphs on his GTV which apparently he raced because MANZ decreed sub 2-litre cars for touring racing at the time. It says he ended up putting a turbo on the thing but it was "unreliable".

How far away is the 24-valve Greg?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 01, 2011, 08:48:37 PM
Quote from: Mat Francis on February 28, 2011, 09:56:31 PM
You should save these write ups for the magazine! Awesome story.

I will have to get out and do another control at something a little more local.

Thanks Mat, put it in the mag if you want to.
The Yakkerboo is on  April 2nd. Based out of Willow Grove again. You could do a closure there. Or, if you want, you could service for me. Not directing this time, going to be a competitor. Put my local knowledge to good use. Actually looking for a navigator, as Dale is going to drive it as well. Anyone want a chaufeured drive around Baw Baw?

Quote from: Sheldon McIntosh on February 28, 2011, 11:06:31 PM
Awesome work, and an excellent story.  Nice one.


Thanks Sheldon, Looking forward to the report on your rally

Quote from: aggie57 on March 01, 2011, 06:59:40 AM
Nice one Greg.  Well done!

Thanks Alister, 24 valve is still upside down on the engine stand. I have been postulating on the oil pump and sump. I have worked out it would be better to do away with the original pump and have bought a Barnes 3 stage scavenge pump and am going to dry sump it. Hope to get it ready for the transplant over winter. Headers are the other big issue. Still thinking about that. Probably build my own out of mandrel bends. All good fun :)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: aggie57 on March 02, 2011, 07:52:54 AM
Quote from: redalfaracing on March 01, 2011, 08:48:37 PM
Thanks Alister, 24 valve is still upside down on the engine stand. I have been postulating on the oil pump and sump. I have worked out it would be better to do away with the original pump and have bought a Barnes 3 stage scavenge pump and am going to dry sump it. Hope to get it ready for the transplant over winter. Headers are the other big issue. Still thinking about that. Probably build my own out of mandrel bends. All good fun :)

That'd certainly give you better ground clearance.  By memory the rear main bearing caps are almost touching the inside of the standard alloy sump which in turn has really only working clearance to the front cross member.  Take that plus the need to keep the tailshaft well aligned (even with dead guibo's!) and I'd imagine there's not much opportunity to lower the engine.  Is that really a consideration in rallying though?  Certainly for circuit use it would be.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 02, 2011, 08:50:01 PM
Quote from: aggie57 on March 02, 2011, 07:52:54 AM
That'd certainly give you better ground clearance.  By memory the rear main bearing caps are almost touching the inside of the standard alloy sump which in turn has really only working clearance to the front cross member.  Take that plus the need to keep the tailshaft well aligned (even with dead guibo's!) and I'd imagine there's not much opportunity to lower the engine.  Is that really a consideration in rallying though?  Certainly for circuit use it would be.

Alister, ground clearance isn't the name of the game. I am not trying to lower the engine, although the thought of no sump to collect stray rocks is a big plus.

And, you may remember that i will not be using guibo's (dead or alive). I have a carbon fibre tail shaft ready to go with an engine adapter already made.( thanks Tom)

If you have a look at these pics
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/IMG_3291.jpg)
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/IMG_3290.jpg)

You will notice that the engine i have ( from a 166) has the oil pump mounted under the main caps and chain drive off the crankshaft. Beauty i thought, Until i went to fit the 116 sump.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/IMG_3292.jpg)

The pickup, which is an integral part of the pump, doesn't really fit into the 116 sump. Not by a long way. ???
Given the work involved in modifying the pump, it seemed just as easy to remove the pump and dry sump it. So i got me one of these,
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/IMG_3293.jpg)

now i just have to take the 166 sump and turn that into a dry sump. couple of hours with a grinder, guilotine, folder and tig and i have a sump that all the bolt holes line up on, wont get smashed by rocks, and will add a few KW's to the engine.

Plus, i will have more room to run my headers.

Just have to find the time.

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: aggie57 on March 03, 2011, 05:41:30 PM
Perfect sense. I'd heard people talk about the chain driven pumps but never seen one.

When I put a 3 litre from a 164 into my 1st GTV6 way back in '96 the nuts on the rear bearing cap fouled the 116 sump. Only took 5 mins with a dremel to fix but shoes just how tight things were in there.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 04, 2011, 04:08:54 PM
Provisional results are available on the HRA site,

http://hra.org.au/files/Millard%202011%20Prov%20Results.pdf

Still winning it! :)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on March 04, 2011, 09:16:35 PM
Quote from: aggie57 on March 03, 2011, 05:41:30 PM
When I put a 3 litre from a 164 into my 1st GTV6 way back in '96 the nuts on the rear bearing cap fouled the 116 sump. Only took 5 mins with a dremel to fix but shoes just how tight things were in there.

That's interesting.  I didn't have that problem, and in all the research I did I never heard of that either.  I was researching the 3 litre going into 75s, but the 75/90 wouldn't have a different sump to the GTV6 would it?

redalfaracing, there have been a few 24Vs put into GTV6s in Melbourne, Benincas and/or Hugh Harrison could advise on any difficulties I'm sure.

Can you give us any more info on the tailshaft?  I'm sure there are many people interested in something similar (once you destroy a few on rallies and then make them stronger).
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 04, 2011, 09:59:56 PM
Quote from: Sheldon McIntosh on March 04, 2011, 09:16:35 PM
Quote from: aggie57 on March 03, 2011, 05:41:30 PM
When I put a 3 litre from a 164 into my 1st GTV6 way back in '96 the nuts on the rear bearing cap fouled the 116 sump. Only took 5 mins with a dremel to fix but shoes just how tight things were in there.

That's interesting.  I didn't have that problem, and in all the research I did I never heard of that either.  I was researching the 3 litre going into 75s, but the 75/90 wouldn't have a different sump to the GTV6 would it?

Sheldon, From the info i have, the early 24valve used the same oil pump as the 116 12 valve. Some time ? Alfa changed the 24 valve slightly and 1 change was the oil pump. I don't reckon you can put the 116 12 valve oil pump in the 166 24 valve i have. I got the 166 24 valve at the right price, so i have a few $'s up my sleeve to dry sump it. I think the advantage of dry sump in a gravel rally car is worth the effort. As far as i can tell, the 116, 90 and 75 v6 sumps are identical. On the 24 valve i have, the rear bearing cap bolts are virtually flush with the bottom of the engine block.

Quote from: Sheldon McIntosh on March 04, 2011, 09:16:35 PM
Can you give us any more info on the tailshaft?  I'm sure there are many people interested in something similar (once you destroy a few on rallies and then make them stronger).

If you wade back through the thread you will get the info on the carbon fibre shaft.
To recap, it is out of an RX8 (manual version only) Weighs just over 5 kg's. Compare that to the 13 kg standard shaft. One piece so you can eliminate the centre bearing. I have an engine adapter made already. Still need to sort out a rear flange. I am pretty certain that a 105 came out with the same size uni cups. I need to find one to see if the 105 diff spline is the same as the GTV6 clutch shaft spline. I expect it is. Otherwise, i get a flange made with Alfa spline and mazda 4 bolt pattern. Or, I use the Mazda flange and get a clutch shaft made with a mazda spline.
I kinda lean toward this option as i am working on getting a 5 1/2 inch AP racing twin plate clutch to reduce the moment of inertia in the driveline. If i do, i will get a shaft and flywheel made in one piece, so the spline can be whatever i like. Unfortunatly AP Racing do not have Alfa clutch spline in their clutch centres. Despite my request to supply plates with blank centres, they reckon it against their company policy. BOO to them.
So, maybe i have to get a new gearbox input shaft made with maybe a ford (splutter!!) spline. They don't seem to mind you using their clutch in a shitheap, but not an Alfa.
Then, if i get a new gearbox shaft made, i can pick my gear ratios. It is all getting so complicated. It would be so much better if AP Racing played the game.

I don't think i will destroy one. Sorry if i disappoint.

below is the drawing of the twin plate ceramic clutch. 3.3 kg's goes on a flywheel 168 mm diameter. Makes for a very light setup.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/ap_racing_clutch.jpg)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Sheldon McIntosh on March 04, 2011, 10:25:04 PM
Thanks for the info, very interesting.  Will be very interesting to see the dry-sump set-up too, as lowering the V6 would be extremely beneficial in a track car, and I'm surprised it hasn't been done before.  I can't imagine that re-aligning the tailshaft would be an insurmountable task, but then again I've been wrong once before.

Quote from: redalfaracing on March 04, 2011, 09:59:56 PM
I don't think i will destroy one. Sorry if i disappoint.

No offence intended, I purely meant by forces beyond your control.  As we all know carbonfibre is extremely strong, but generally only in one direction.  I imagine Mazda didn't foresee their tailshaft being hit by big rocks repeatedly.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: scott.venables on March 04, 2011, 11:27:18 PM
Quote from: redalfaracing on March 02, 2011, 08:50:01 PM
You will notice that the engine i have ( from a 166) has the oil pump mounted under the main caps and chain drive off the crankshaft. Beauty i thought, Until i went to fit the 116 sump.
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/IMG_3292.jpg)

The pickup, which is an integral part of the pump, doesn't really fit into the 116 sump. Not by a long way. ???
Given the work involved in modifying the pump, it seemed just as easy to remove the pump ....

Is it an illusion or is the the oil pick up not parallel to the bottom of the block?  Despite this, would it be feasible to make a new lower sump half that lines up with the new oil pick up?

Scott
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 05, 2011, 08:45:03 AM
Scott  , it is no illusion  , In the 166 the engine is tipped forward. The pickup would then be level.
I could build a new lower sump, but it would be lower than standard, but dry sumping will be so much more fun.   
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: LaStregaNera on March 08, 2011, 12:46:49 PM
The other option is a 20mm thick spacer - I've been talking to a bloke in South Efrika who's done a few of these late 24valve conversions because i've got a 98 GTV v6 24valve motor that I want to put into a 116 chassis car, and they do the 20mm spacer, or a new sump. Of course, 20mm less ground clearance is a sucky option on a tarmac car, let alone a gravel rally car.
I'm not in a position to play with sumps and stuff on mine yet, but can you do me a favour and pop the perforated steel screen off the pump and snap a pic from front on with the 116 sump sitting there? I'm wondering if a flat mesh screen like the aftermarket jobbies for the 105s might save a bit of spacer thickness.

Another, super annoying thing is the factory Motronic from the late 24valvers uses a CAS mounted to the sump reading teeth on the flywheel.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 08, 2011, 08:46:55 PM
Quote from: LaStregaNera on March 08, 2011, 12:46:49 PM
The other option is a 20mm thick spacer
Of course, 20mm less ground clearance is a sucky option on a tarmac car, let alone a gravel rally car.

Another, super annoying thing is the factory Motronic from the late 24valvers uses a CAS mounted to the sump reading teeth on the flywheel.
You are right, 20 mm more sump isn't going to work on a rally car.
I wont be using the factory Motronic ECU, but i will use the crank angle sensor. Mounting it isn't a drama at all on whatever sump i end up using. It actually uses the 2 rear sump flange holes and a couple of holes in the sump for locating pins. In the overall scheme of things, a small part of the conversion.

Here's the pic you wanted,
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/IMG_3294.jpg)

You can see taking the mesh screen off doesn't improve things at all.

I am sticking with the dry sump approach. The only class i can run in with the engine mod is Club Rally Car, and in that class dry sumping is allowed.

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: LaStregaNera on March 08, 2011, 09:37:24 PM
Awesome, thanks. The solution to the Cas appears to be using the front cover, cas mount and front pulley from a motronic 75 or a 164 (L-jet cars have the cast in bosses for the CAS mount but not tapped I believe)... of course we only got 164s with the v belt pulleys, USA got multi rib on all but the really early cars...
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 09, 2011, 08:33:36 PM
These pics arrived today from a local photographer Terry Stone.
Great shots, thanks Terry

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/DSC_7602.jpg)


(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/DSC_7526.jpg)

I don't remember seeing anyone with a camera, but then again, i was a bit busy.

How good do the Compomotives look!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: aggie57 on March 09, 2011, 10:33:05 PM
Quote from: LaStregaNera on March 08, 2011, 09:37:24 PM
Awesome, thanks. The solution to the Cas appears to be using the front cover, cas mount and front pulley from a motronic 75 or a 164 (L-jet cars have the cast in bosses for the CAS mount but not tapped I believe)... of course we only got 164s with the v belt pulleys, USA got multi rib on all but the really early cars...


If you're after a multi rib front pulley from a US spec 164 with the crank sensor teeth I have one sitting in my garage. The crank sensor is there as well but the water pump got dumped in a past garage clean out.

Sheldon - can't say why the sump on my car fouled the rear main bearing cap. So long ago!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 14, 2011, 08:33:30 PM
The Millard Memorial results are now final. No changes, so, officially the winners.

Spent a few hours under the GTV6 today, removed the drive shaft.
This is how the donut finished the rally

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/IMG_3298.jpg)

There wasn't a lot left, one more tear, and it would have been "all over red rover"
Thank Hugh for a 2hd unit at the right price. Pity it came without the oil seal, the seal in the donut i removed was knackered. I'll try my good friends at BJ Bearings tomorrow see if they have something similar.
While the driveshaft is out, i'm going to get in there with the wire brush and the spray gun and tidy it up a bit. Make it look a bit nicer up on the hoist at scrutiny :)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Evan Bottcher on March 14, 2011, 08:58:01 PM
You should crack a donut more often!  Congrats on the official result.  Getting a write up for the next club magazine?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 15, 2011, 09:44:02 PM
Thanks Evan, speaking of magazine articles, the HRA News appeared in my letterbox today. I found this inside,

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/Wood_Wine_and_Wyatt_1.jpg)
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/Wood_Wine_and_Wyatt_2.jpg)
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/Wood_Wine_and_Wyatt_3.jpg)
(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/GTV6%20Project/Wood_Wine_and_Wyatt_4.jpg)

Written by Alan Baker, who is the editor and a fellow competitor in the Millard memorial.
I sent him the story i wrote but missed the deadline by 12 hours. Never mind, he is inserting it in the next issue. I hope you enjoy his story too. Good to see the Alfa name in publications about rally again.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: 116gtv on March 16, 2011, 01:23:21 PM
Great story you wrote there, Greg, and congrats on the result. Wish you were in NSW so we could see/hear the GTV6 in action..

I assume you wont go back to rallying the Alfetta any longer after getting used to that V6 torque? ;)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 16, 2011, 08:46:02 PM
Quote from: 116gtv on March 16, 2011, 01:23:21 PM
Great story you wrote there, Greg, and congrats on the result. Wish you were in NSW so we could see/hear the GTV6 in action..

I assume you wont go back to rallying the Alfetta any longer after getting used to that V6 torque? ;)

Thanks Martin, I will have to do something about getting some video happening. Would love to watch it myself. I only know what it looks and sounds like from the inside.

As for the Alfetta, Funnily enough i really miss it. That car has a lot of sentimental value to me. I'm actually thinking of fitting standard brakes and door cards to it and using it in Historic type events.
That way i can qualify for H81 awards. I can use 15inch wheels, twin spark box, and the sky is the limit with the original block and head. I will try and make some headway this year for next years season.

So many projects, so little time. :(
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 23, 2011, 08:52:28 PM
I have entered the Yakkerboo Rally for April 2nd. This is our own clubs rally. I directed the last 2 so i'm keen to have a run in this one. Dale was going to be driving it himself, so i am using a woman from our club, Susan Wasson. Now i hear Dale isn't going to drive after all. Sheeesh!
I'm not sure Susan quite understands what she is getting herself into.... She is used to naving for Peter Morrison in a Hyundai Excel... I have a feeling she is going to have to shift her navigating up a gear or 2, Quite a difference in the road speed of a bog standard 1.6 litre Excel and the GTV6. We should have a few giggles i reckon.
The Yakkerboo is staged out of Willow Grove and will be having 2 daylight stages, then a divisional break until dark, then 100 or more competitive KM's somewhere around Noojee i believe. Couple of spectator points are being talked about.

The club is after some road closure officials, Matt Francis did one for me in 2009 and enjoyed it. Let me know if you want to do one to help out this year.

I am doing an SOS/ road closure for North Eastern Car club this Saturday at Bonnie Doon. All daylight, double use. Should be a blast!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 01, 2011, 05:41:37 PM
I am sooooo pissed, Yakkerboo rally for this weekend CANCELLED!!!!

Reason? Not enough entries. Not enough personel to man road closures.

Now i have to wait untill April 30th for the TrailBlazer.

Good news is, i ran into Pierre at our road closure, Bonnie Doon Rally last Saturday. I hadn't met him before, but he knew me. He goes to most rallies with a few video cameras and spends the whole time filming cars whistling through the bush. He identified me as the guy in the Alfa. He told me he has some video of the GTV6 and would put it onto DVD for me. When i get it i will post it on Youtube. Be good to see, as i only get to see the car from the inside. Be good to see it from the outside for a change.

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 24, 2011, 10:04:14 PM
Trailblazer entry list is out. We have been allocated car number 12 of 25. Car is ready for scrutinty on Wednesday, just needs a wash and a dusting on the inside, I so cannot wait to get her angry again ;)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 25, 2011, 10:19:49 PM
Well Paul, what else would you have her be in a Rally other than "angry"? The Trailblazer has a 198 km tour 1st. So i get to tickle her around between Kilmore and Heathcote looking for obscure road re-alignments etc, then 3 closed road sections ( flat out) at Costerfield, a dinner break at Rally HQ, Costerfield Hall, then 143km TRE ( Dale tells me how fast to go), returning to Rally HQ  some time around 00:30 hrs Sunday.

Thanks for the best wishes.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on April 25, 2011, 11:20:59 PM
hey greg when is this hopefully i can get out and see you flying past
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 26, 2011, 08:08:46 AM
Dehne, we leave Kilmore at 11.41 Saturday. Due at Costerfield hall about 16.15, half hour service then we do the special tests. This only. Takes 30 minutes then back to costerfield hall for a dinner break. Start TRE at 19.22 arrive back maybe midnight? Depending how we go on the night. If Dale's hamster is firing on all cylinders we could be earlier. Usually there is a spectator point.  Get to rally HQ By 16.00 and pick up some spectator instructions. Be great to see you. 
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 27, 2011, 09:05:31 PM
 Passed scrutiny with no issues, all set for a drive in the country. Bring it ;D
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Fylnn on April 28, 2011, 08:41:18 AM
Greg,

I might have missed it in the post somewhere, but noticed you have a front sump guard but do you have any guards over the transaxle?  I am tossing up on how vulnerable that area is, it is alloy, but a low hanging guard might be more trouble then it is worth.  I suppose options are also alloy or some form of polyurethane sheet to deflect the sharp edges a bit.

My PRC GTV6 is at the paint shop so hopefully can post some photos soon of it being re-assembled and finally heading for the road.

Peter
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on April 28, 2011, 02:01:26 PM
Flynn, you didn't miss anything, no guard under gearbox. I try to drive around big rocks not over them. Gearbox looks a bit sand blasted but not at all damaged.
Be great to see some pics of your car.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 26, 2011, 09:19:47 PM
It's been a while, so an update is probably required.

Trailblazer.
Some things never go how you plan them. Trailblazer rally was one such day.
Great weather for a rally. Started with a tour out of Kilmore. Basically we had to head from Kilmore to Costerfield on 2011 roads using 1960 maps. In theory it could work. Trouble is, someone built the Hume Freeway since 1960. We zig zagged it all day. Got so bamboozled that in the end we just got on it an headed for the finish of division 1 at Costerfield. Some guys cleaned it, some got lost like us, but we all had a good time.
Division 2 was 3 closed rally stages through the trees and stumps near the Costerfield hall. About 12 km in total. Dust was thick and hanging. There was a lot of carnage, bent guards, broken suspension etc. Not us though, was our moment to shine! Managed to miss everything solid and finished 2nd. Dinta Officer beat us by 3 seconds in his 700 kg Gallant. I have no problem with been beaten by ex ARC champion by only 3 seconds.
(http://www.hra.org.au/files/images/tb045.preview.jpg)

That was taken by Doutchy in a tight slalom in the trees.

Divison 3 was a TRE after a dinner break. We take off and everything going good until disaster strikes.
Ghastly noises from the back of the car. Sounds like a terminal problem with the gearbox. We withdraw from the event after stage 2 and head back to rally HQ.
This is a pic of us going through the spec point with a dead gearbox.
(http://www.hra.org.au/files/images/tb052.preview.jpg)

A tad understeer but, not a lot of confidence in the ability to drive hard at this point.
We had driven the car up from melbourne so that left us with a huge dillema. Luckily Mathew Fenner had trailered his Rangie up, so we drove his Rangie home and he trailered the GTV6 home. Mathew also retired early due to a sick navigator.

I have just finished fixing the GTV6 today. The problem with the gearbox?
Tore all the teeth off the pinion. No marks on the crown wheel, weird. Maybe too much torque for a 4 cylinder pinion ( 4.3:1)  on gravel i think?
Anyhow, the 4.1:1 that came with the car has gone into my close ratio box. I thought that it wouldn't make much difference, but it feels so much taller. Paticularly 2nd. I'll get used to it i guess.

Entered in the Rich River Revisited rally this weekend out of Echuca. Held over 2 days day 1 is from Echuca up to Denni and back, with special tests along the way. A motorkhana in Rotary Park, couple of closed rally stages on private property and an autocross at Denni. Sunday we do the speedway at Moama something at Rochester and finish with a rally stage at Bagshot. Gunna be a heap of giggles.

We are car 18. hopefully Doutchy and Golly are going along with their cameras. Can't wait for the speedway. Did the wang speedway once in the Northeastern Rally. 2 nd fastest 2 wheel drive in the 2 litre Alfetta. 80 RWKW. Hayden Taylor beat me by 2 seconds in his 125 RWKW Datto 1600, guess i was trying harder :D


Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 27, 2011, 08:33:01 PM
Quote from: paul edwards on July 27, 2011, 09:03:22 AM

If you can make it up for the Alpine Chapters "Le Tour De North East" on 10th and 11th of September, it would be great to have you along.


Cheers Paul

Paul, you going through Mt Beauty on the tour? I have a mate up there that needs an air con disconnected.
Maybe kill two birds with the one Alfa?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on July 29, 2011, 09:14:40 PM
Sorry guys, no rally for me this weekend. Had an infected tooth drop me today, I will still have fun though, i will see how much i can get for the gold crown on it..  :( :( :(
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on September 15, 2011, 10:48:58 PM
If you go back to the start of this thread you will see me rattling on about the Alpine Rally. The 2009 Alpine was to be the first event for the Gtv6. Well, it's Alpine year again ( held every 2 years) and it is on the 25th, 26th and 27th of November 2011 in Lakes Entrance. Supp regs were released about 6pm last Sunday, I entered 10 pm ( online registration this year) Entries opened Monday. Apparently 27 entered on Sunday, 57 by midnight Monday, 100 by midnight last night. I would say by now it is over subscribed ( maximum 120). Good money earner for the HRA @ $675 per entry.
So i'm definatly going to drive this one. Glad i entered early. Apparently there were 250 expressions of interest in the months before the release of the supp regs. There will be a few tears from the crews who were a bit slow off the mark.

I did a VCAS autocross at Melton a few weeks ago. What a fantastic day out. Gearbox now repaired (with a 4.1 final drive) i was car 65 out of 76. Bit of a slow start to the day with 3 cars on their rooves in the first 15 minutes and numerous crashes. Caution was the name of the game. The GTV6 handled the track ok with the exception of the last corner. too fast for 1st and too slow for 2nd, I reckon if i still had the 4.3 drive 2nd would have been perfect. We got 5 runs in of the 1.6 km track, winding through the rocks and tyre walls. I was leading class all day until the last run ( fastest 3 count) when a Skyline pipped me by 1 second. I was happy with the results though. shiny side still shiny, 2nd in class and 8th outright. Not so shabby from an old bloke who hasn't autocrossed in a long while. Results below.

Thinking of maybe going to Kyneton this month for another fang.

Going to do 1 more rally before the Alpine as a shake down. Probably the sprint rally attached to the Akademos in October.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on September 19, 2011, 08:46:11 PM
Provisional entry list for the Alpine Rally as at Friday.

Ross Allan/Scott Allan Nissan Bluebird PRC Modern
David Allwright/Sam Allwright Mazda RX2 PRC Pre 1981
Luke Anderson/Greg McPherson Datsun 180B Club Rally Car
Andrei Artamonov/Gleb Bonch-Osmolovskiy Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
Steve Ashton/Ro Nixon Mitsubishi Galant Historic Pre 1981
Kade Barrett/David Weldon Plymouth Fire Arrow replica Club Rally Car
Paul Batten/Glen Raymond Datsun P510 Classic Rally Car
Andrew Bell/Correne Seabrook Holden Commodore PRC Modern
Gerard Blum/Stephanie Richards Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
Aaron Bowering/Nathan Lowe Datsun 200B PRC Pre 1981
David Boyd/Sam McMahon Datsun Stanza PRC Pre 1981
Troy Brendel/Samantha Brendel Ford Escort Historic Pre 1981
Brendan Brown/Rachel Hale Datsun 180B SSS PRC Pre 1981
David Brown/David Burn Datsun 1600 Special Historic Pre 1968
Jonathan Byrnes/Stuart Diggins Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
Peter Canning/Chris Wallace Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Brian Canny/Paul Crosbie Porsche 944 PRC Modern
Daniel Carney/Kimberley Barson Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
Richard Carter/Warren Medwell Datsun Stanza Club Rally Car
Michael Conway/Jennifer Cole Ford Escort Mk 2 Club Rally Car
Robert Cranston/Karl Grealy Toyota Celica Historic Pre 1981
William Cromarty/David Cromarty Chrysler Lancer LB PRC Pre 1981
Ian Crook/Peter Ellis Rover SD1 Classic Rally Car
David Curl/Robert Richards Chrysler Lancer LA Club Rally Car
Ian Curry/Sarah Curry Datsun 1600 Historic Pre 1981
Thomas Davidson/James Davidson Mitsubishi Lancer LA PRC Pre 1981
Phillip Donohue/David Donohue BMW M3 E30 PRC Modern
Bill Dunn/Rhys Pinter Fiat 131 Rallye Classic Rally Car
Stephen Duthie/Damien Hanns Datsun 180B SSS PRC Pre 1981
James Elliott/Cathy Rainer Hyundai Lantra PRC Modern
John Ellis/Adrian Sietsma Fiat 1500 Historic Pre 1968
Glenn Farrant/Russel Taylor Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
Douglas Fernie/Geoffrey Floyd Datsun P510 Bluebird Historic Pre 1968
Bruce Field/Julia Field Mercedes-Benz 280 Classic Rally Car
Michael Foreshew/Rick Walton Ford Cortina Mk 2 Historic Pre 1968
Gavin Fowler/Warren Nietz Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Dave Gaines/Nikki Doyle Datsun 240K GT PRC Pre 1981
Gary Gibbons/George Davidson jnr Ford Escort PRC Pre 1981
Jeff Graham/Joy Graham Peugeot 404 Historic Pre 1968
Barry Grant/Terry Naish Datsun Stanza PRC Modern
Geoff Hale/Alan Baker Volkswagen Golf Historic Pre 1981
Kim Harper/David Gallacher Ford Escort TwinCam Historic Pre 1968
Dean Hasnat/Matthew Petersen Holden Commodore PRC Pre 1981
Jeff Hawkins/Kellie Pearce Lancia Beta coupe Classic Rally Car
Stephen Horobin/Paul Marando Datsun 180B PRC Pre 1981
Wayne Hoy/Lisa Dunkerton Datsun 1600 Club Rally Car
Sean Hudgson/Phil Nicholas Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Tony Huggins/Stephanie Huggins Datsun Sunny B110 PRC Pre 1981
Phil Hurle/Mahra Villis Ford Escort PRC Pre 1981
Cameron Jay/Eddie Corrales Ford Escort Mk 2 PRC Pre 1981
Andrew Kavanagh/Tom Ruessman Datsun 180B PRC Modern
Bernie Keast/Sue Thompson Holden Gemini Club Rally Car
Gary Kendrick/Ron Gottschalk Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Stuart Lawless/Darcy O'Connor Ford Escort Club Rally Car
David Lawrance/Darren Davison Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Jamie Lawson/Noel Lawson Holden Commodore PRC Modern
Joshua Leask/Suzanne Graham Datsun Stanza Classic Rally Car
Jeff Lee/Roger Lee Triumph 2.5 PI Mk 1 PRC Pre 1981
Matt Lee/Andrew Gell Holden Commodore VH PRC Modern
Richard Leitis/Robin Mules Ford Escort PRC Pre 1981
Michael Long/Vaughan Haskett Datsun 180B SSS PRC Pre 1981
Brett Middleton/Damien Long Honda Civic EK4 PRC Modern
Jack Monkhouse/Claire Ryan Datsun 180B SSS Club Rally Car
Tony Moore/Nikki Moore Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
Peter Morrison/Susan Wasson Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
Claude Murray/Matthew James Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Craig Neave/Ashleigh Staude Mitsubishi Sigma PRC Modern
Doug Norman/Robert Knight Peugeot 504 PRC Pre 1981
David Officer/Kate Officer Mitsubishi Colt Galant Historic Pre 1981
Ross O'Reilly/Tim McGill Nissan Bluebird 910 SSS PRC Pre 1981
Peter Otzen/Paul Franklin Datsun 180B SSS PRC Pre 1981
Andrew Paice/Dick Denvil Datsun Stanza PRC Pre 1981
Robert Parry/Kim Beckwith Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Graham Pate/Cale Pearce Datsun 180B PRC Pre 1981
Ted Perkins/Joel Perkins Ford Cortina GT Historic Pre 1968
Lee Peterson/Daniel Willson Nissan Sunny GTi PRC Modern
John Pinkerton/Peter Shearman Volkswagen 1500 Beetle Historic Pre 1968
Geoff Portman/Ross Runnalls Ford Escort Classic Rally Car
Tim Reynolds/Simon Reynolds Datsun 180B Classic Rally Car
Mark Richards/Cody Richards Ford Escort Mk 2 PRC Pre 1981
Stephen Richards/Larry Walker Ford Escort Mk 2 PRC Pre 1981
Jesse Robison/Eddie MacGuire Datsun 1600 Club Rally Car
Murray Rogers/Jason Selmon Toyota Sprinter PRC Modern
Brett Ross/Jason Hague Holden Commodore PRC Modern
Matt Ruggles/Guy Ruggles Triumph TR7 V8 Classic Rally Car
Neil Schey/Scott Middleton Ford Escort RS 2000 Classic Rally Car
Brian Semmens/Daniel Parry Nissan 200SX RVS12 PRC Modern
Nathan Senior/Lisi Phillips Volvo 244 GL PRC Pre 1981
Brian Shand/David Campbell Mitsubishi Starion Invited Car
Bruce Shepherd/Simon Shepherd Peugeot 505 PRC Modern
Colin Sichlau/Rick Thorpe Isuzu Gemini PF60 Club Rally Car
Damion Smith/Kylie Turner Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Harvey Smith/Heather Smith Mitsubishi Sigma PRC Pre 1981
Lachlan Smith/Karen Keene Ford Escort PRC Pre 1981
Darryn Snooks/Matt devaus Datsun Stanza Classic Rally Car
Paul Stephens/Stephen Mitchell Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Carl Stewart/Anna Ritson Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Mark Sutcliffe/Jason Milner Nissan Skyline R30 PRC Modern
Andrew Taylor/Robin Smalley Mazda RX7 PRC Modern
Phil Thomas/Ken Radnell Holden Commodore PRC Modern
Graham Thompson/Winton Brocklebank Holden Commodore PRC Modern
Matt Thompson/Aaron Tams Datsun 180B PRC Pre 1981
Richard Troup/Russell Hannah Mazda RX2 Classic Rally Car
Baden U'Ren/Colin U'Ren Ford Escort RS2000 PRC Pre 1981
Joel Wald/Tracey Dewhurst Datsun Stanza PRC Pre 1981
Michael Ward/Jenny Pollock Toyota Corolla PRC Pre 1981
Jon Waterhouse/Carolyn Wilson Mazda RX7 Club Rally Car
Bob Watson/David Johnson Datsun 1600 Historic Pre 1968
David Wellings/Scott Mitchell Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Derrick White/Dave Smith Peugeot 504 PRC Pre 1981
Neville Whittenbury/Dave Rudham Datsun 180B PRC Pre 1981
Adam Wilson/Scott Jennison Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Joe Wilson/Martin Warneke Triumph 2500 PI Classic Rally Car
Rowan Woollard/Tommy Wright Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
Russell Woollard/James Thompson Datsun Bluebird PRC Modern
Greg Wyatt/Dale Allan Alfa Romeo GTV 6 PRC Modern
Garry Yeomans/Kam Baker Datsun Stanza PRC Pre 1981

Quite a mixed bag really. Lots of club rally cars. Pretty much the only reason to have a car log booked as a club rally car is if you have put a go fast engine in it. going to be an interesting rally.

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on October 01, 2011, 09:13:23 PM
This email arrived during the week.

As of Thursday 22-Sep entries in the Alpine Rally 2011 stood at
130. The chances of getting a start are now fairly slim, although in
2009 we received 128 entries and 109 started so you never
know. Below is a list of entries that have been received. All
entries are yet to be rigorously checked and being listed here is not
to be interpreted in any way that a start will be gained - end disclaimer.

Priority Crew Car Class
Invited
1 Jeff David/Grant Geelan Porsche 911 Classic Rally Car
2 Stewart Reid/ Ford Escort BDA Classic Rally Car
3 Ian Hill/Phillip Bonser Ford Escort BDA Classic Rally Car
Order of Entry
4 Ross Allan/Scott Allan Nissan Bluebird PRC Modern
48 David Allwright/Sam Allwright Mazda RX2 PRC Pre 1981
60 Luke Anderson/Greg McPherson Datsun 180B Club Rally Car
26 Andrei Artamonov/Gleb Bonch-Osmolovskiy Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
24 Steve Ashton/Ro Nixon Mitsubishi Galant Historic Pre 1981
44 Kade Barrett/David Weldon Plymouth Fire Arrow
replica Club Rally Car
116 Paul Batten/Glen Raymond Datsun P510 Classic Rally Car
59 Andrew Bell/Correne Seabrook Holden Commodore PRC Modern
12 Gerard Blum/Stephanie Richards Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
16 Aaron Bowering/Nathan Lowe Datsun 200B PRC Pre 1981
52 David Boyd/Sam McMahon Datsun Stanza PRC Pre 1981
92 Troy Brendel/Samantha Brendel Ford Escort Historic Pre 1981
23 Brendan Brown/Rachel Hale Datsun 180B SSS PRC Pre 1981
108 David Brown/David Burn Datsun 1600 Special Historic Pre 1968
71 Jonathan Byrnes/Stuart Diggins Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
75 Peter Canning/Chris Wallace Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
17 Brian Canny/Paul Crosbie Porsche 944 PRC Modern
103 Daniel Carney/Kimberley Barson Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
128 Gary Carruthers/Stuart Carruthers Ford Falcon XR
GT Historic Pre 1968
93 Richard Carter/Warren Medwell Datsun Stanza Club Rally Car
41 Michael Conway/Jennifer Cole Ford Escort Mk 2 Club Rally Car
113 Simon Crane/Mark Thomas Mitsubishi Galant Historic Pre 1981
73 Robert Cranston/Karl Grealy Toyota Celica Historic Pre 1981
76 William Cromarty/David Cromarty Chrysler Lancer LB PRC Pre 1981
7 Ian Crook/Peter Ellis Rover SD1 Classic Rally Car
94 David Curl/Robert Richards Chrysler Lancer LA Club Rally Car
110 Ian Curry/Sarah Curry Datsun 1600 Historic Pre 1981
126 Neil Cuthbert/Rod McEwan Datsun 200B Classic Rally Car
35 Thomas Davidson/James Davidson Mitsubishi Lancer LA PRC Pre 1981
95 Phillip Donohue/David Donohue BMW M3 E30 PRC Modern
83 Bill Dunn/Rhys Pinter Fiat 131 Rallye Classic Rally Car
34 Stephen Duthie/Damien Hanns Datsun 180B SSS PRC Pre 1981
43 James Elliott/Cathy Rainer Hyundai Lantra PRC Modern
119 John Ellis/Adrian Sietsma Fiat 1500 Historic Pre 1968
127 Hilary Evans/Will Orders Datsun 1600 SSS PRC Pre 1981
104 Glenn Farrant/Russel Taylor Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
80 Douglas Fernie/Geoffrey Floyd Datsun P510
Bluebird Historic Pre 1968
5 Bruce Field/Julia Field Mercedes-Benz 280 Classic Rally Car
46 Michael Foreshew/Rick Walton Ford Cortina Mk
2 Historic Pre 1968
8 Gavin Fowler/Warren Nietz Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
6 Dave Gaines/Nikki Doyle Datsun 240K GT PRC Pre 1981
13 Gary Gibbons/George Davidson jnr Ford Escort PRC Pre 1981
39 Jeff Graham/Joy Graham Peugeot 404 Historic Pre 1968
118 Barry Grant/Terry Naish Datsun Stanza PRC Modern
96 Geoff Hale/Alan Baker Volkswagen Golf Historic Pre 1981
58 Kim Harper/David Gallacher Ford Escort
TwinCam Historic Pre 1968
51 Dean Hasnat/Matthew Petersen Holden Commodore PRC Pre 1981
123 Jeff Hawkins/Kellie Pearce Lancia Beta
coupe Classic Rally Car
37 Stephen Horobin/Paul Marando Datsun 180B PRC Pre 1981
129 Gary Howard/Michael Loxton Toyota Celica TA 22 PRC Pre 1981
88 Wayne Hoy/Lisa Dunkerton Datsun 1600 Club Rally Car
84 Sean Hudgson/Phil Nicholas Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
72 Tony Huggins/Stephanie Huggins Datsun Sunny B110 PRC Pre 1981
87 Phil Hurle/Mahra Villis Ford Escort PRC Pre 1981
74 Cameron Jay/Eddie Corrales Ford Escort Mk 2 PRC Pre 1981
97 Andrew Kavanagh/Tom Ruessman Datsun 180B PRC Modern
124 Bernie Keast/Sue Thompson Holden Gemini Club Rally Car
67 Gary Kendrick/Ron Gottschalk Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
27 Todd Knight/Brian Ward Peugeot 306 S16 PRC Modern
98 Alex Kovacevic/Kate Cotter Fiat 131 PRC Pre 1981
28 Stuart Lawless/Darcy O'Connor Ford Escort Club Rally Car
22 David Lawrance/Darren Davison Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
45 Jamie Lawson/Noel Lawson Holden Commodore PRC Modern
85 Joshua Leask/Suzanne Graham Datsun Stanza Classic Rally Car
112 Jeff Lee/Roger Lee Triumph 2.5 PI Mk 1 PRC Pre 1981
82 Matt Lee/Andrew Gell Holden Commodore VH PRC Modern
53 Richard Leitis/Robin Mules Ford Escort PRC Pre 1981
121 Michael Long/Vaughan Haskett Datsun 180B SSS PRC Pre 1981
130 Ken MacDonald/Robert Ellis Ford Lotus
Cortina Historic Pre 1968
99 Ian Menzies/Bob McGowan Ford Falcon XR8 PRC Modern
29 Brett Middleton/Damien Long Honda Civic EK4 PRC Modern
111 Jack Monkhouse/Claire Ryan Datsun 180B SSS Club Rally Car
57 Tony Moore/Nikki Moore Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
63 Peter Morrison/Susan Wasson Hyundai Excel PRC Modern
69 Claude Murray/Matthew James Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
25 Craig Neave/Ashleigh Staude Mitsubishi Sigma PRC Modern
54 Doug Norman/Robert Knight Peugeot 504 PRC Pre 1981
14 David Officer/Kate Officer Mitsubishi Colt
Galant Historic Pre 1981
68 Ross O'Reilly/Tim McGill Nissan Bluebird 910 SSS PRC Pre 1981
10 Peter Otzen/Paul Franklin Datsun 180B SSS PRC Pre 1981
79 Andrew Paice/Dick Denvil Datsun Stanza PRC Pre 1981
66 Robert Parry/Kim Beckwith Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
9 Graham Pate/Cale Pearce Datsun 180B PRC Pre 1981
65 Ted Perkins/Joel Perkins Ford Cortina GT Historic Pre 1968
109 Lee Peterson/Daniel Willson Nissan Sunny GTi PRC Modern
86 John Pinkerton/Peter Shearman Volkswagen 1500
Beetle Historic Pre 1968
107 Geoff Portman/Ross Runnalls Ford Escort Classic Rally Car
19 Tim Reynolds/Simon Reynolds Datsun 180B Classic Rally Car
114 Mark Richards/Cody Richards Ford Escort Mk 2 PRC Pre 1981
91 Stephen Richards/Larry Walker Ford Escort Mk 2 PRC Pre 1981
122 Jesse Robison/Eddie MacGuire Datsun 1600 Club Rally Car
55 Murray Rogers/Jason Selmon Toyota Sprinter PRC Modern
70 Brett Ross/Jason Hague Holden Commodore PRC Modern
36 Matt Ruggles/Guy Ruggles Triumph TR7 V8 Classic Rally Car
15 Neil Schey/Scott Middleton Ford Escort RS
2000 Classic Rally Car
64 Brian Semmens/Daniel Parry Nissan 200SX RVS12 PRC Modern
38 Nathan Senior/Lisi Phillips Volvo 244 GL PRC Pre 1981
62 Brian Shand/David Campbell Mitsubishi Starion Invited Car
78 Bruce Shepherd/Simon Shepherd Peugeot 505 PRC Modern
125 Colin Sichlau/Rick Thorpe Isuzu Gemini PF60 Club Rally Car
33 Damion Smith/Kylie Turner Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
106 Harvey Smith/Heather Smith Mitsubishi Sigma PRC Pre 1981
100 Lachlan Smith/Karen Keene Ford Escort PRC Pre 1981
42 Darryn Snooks/Matt devaus Datsun Stanza Classic Rally Car
40 Paul Stephens/Stephen Mitchell Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
50 Carl Stewart/Anna Ritson Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
32 Mark Sutcliffe/Jason Milner Nissan Skyline R30 PRC Modern
115 Ian Swan/Val Swan Volvo 242 PRC Pre 1981
21 Andrew Taylor/Robin Smalley Mazda RX7 PRC Modern
20 Phil Thomas/Ken Radnell Holden Commodore PRC Modern
89 Graham Thompson/Winton Brocklebank Holden
Commodore PRC Modern
105 Matt Thompson/Aaron Tams Datsun 180B PRC Pre 1981
30 Richard Troup/Russell Hannah Mazda RX2 Classic Rally Car
61 Baden U'Ren/Colin U'Ren Ford Escort RS2000 PRC Pre 1981
77 Joel Wald/Tracey Dewhurst Datsun Stanza PRC Pre 1981
56 Michael Ward/Jenny Pollock Toyota Corolla PRC Pre 1981
81 Jon Waterhouse/Carolyn Wilson Mazda RX7 Club Rally Car
101 Bob Watson/David Johnson Datsun 1600 Historic Pre 1968
31 David Wellings/Scott Mitchell Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
18 Derrick White/Dave Smith Peugeot 504 PRC Pre 1981
120 Neville Whittenbury/Dave Rudham Datsun 180B PRC Pre 1981
102 Adam Wilson/Scott Jennison Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
49 Joe Wilson/Martin Warneke Triumph 2500 PI Classic Rally Car
90 Rowan Woollard/Tommy Wright Datsun 1600 PRC Pre 1981
47 Russell Woollard/James Thompson Datsun Bluebird PRC Modern
11 Greg Wyatt/Dale Allan Alfa Romeo GTV 6 PRC Modern
117 Garry Yeomans/Kam Baker Datsun Stanza PRC Pre 1981

Gary Hodgskiss
Alpine Rally 2011 Entries Secretary


more info on the alpine website

http://www.alpinerally.org.au/ (http://www.alpinerally.org.au/)
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on November 29, 2011, 11:19:35 PM
Alpine Rally was last weekend.

Teaser of the video below. watch and see if you can find an Alfa, oh and there is a Lancia Beta and a Fiat 1500 in there too.

Results on www.alpinerally.org.au

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on November 29, 2011, 11:56:08 PM
good stuff, how did you go, hopefully there will be more of ur action on the dvd
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on November 30, 2011, 09:03:35 AM
Dehne, unofficial scores below. there was carnage out there. We had torrential rain, mud (porridge) deep loose sand, but at least no dust. The carpark at the end looked like a wreckers yard. However, not a mark on the Alfa. Pretty happy about that. That was my major aim of the weekend. Finish in one piece.
It was a fantastic event, very tough and long. Some very fast stages, flat out in 5th quite a few times. There was a 39 km stage that was all 4th and 5th gear, up Mt Jack and then back down. Plenty of water on the roads, deep creek crossings and yes, Doutchy was there with his camera at a few of them. Pics to follow when everyone catches up on their sleep.

O/R Crew Car Points

1 Geoff Portman/Ross Runnalls Ford Escort RS1800 170:32
2 Paul Batten/Glen Raymond Datsun P510 173:18
3 Wayne Hoy/Lisa Dunkerton Datsun 1600 176:11
4 Jeff David/Grant Geelan Porsche 911 176:44
5 Ross Allan/Scott Allan Nissan Bluebird 180:02
6 Michael Conway/Jenny Cole Ford Escort Mk 2 180:03
7 Jack Monkhouse/Claire Ryan Datsun 180B SSS 180:15
8 Carl Stewart/Anna Ritson Datsun 1600 182:53
9 Iann Hill/Phillip Bonser Ford Escort BDA 183:09
10 Phillip Donohue/David Donahue BMW M3 E30 183:46
11 Rob Parry/Kim Beckwith Datsun 1600 184:40
12 Brett Middleton/Damien Long Honda Civic EK4 186:01
13 Kade Barratt/David Weldon Plymouth Fire Arrow replica 187:19
14 Jon Waterhouse/Carolyn Wilson Mazda RX7 188:23
15 Stephen Duthie/Damien Hanns Datsun 180B SSS 189:37
16 Brendan Brown/Kim Barson Datsun 180B SSS 190:44
17 Neville Whittenbury/Dave Rudham Datsun 180B 190:47
18 Garry Yeomans/Kam Baker Datsun Stanza 191:05
19 Rowan Woollard/Tommy Wright Datsun 1600 191:20
20 David Officer/Kate Officer Mitsubishi Colt Galant 191:36
21 Brian Shand/David Campbell Mitsubishi Starion 191:56
22 Ian Swan/Val Swan Volvo 242 192:23
23 Matt Lee/Andrew Gell Holden Commodore VH 193:32
24 Greg Wyatt/Dale Allan Alfa Romeo GTV 6 195:13
25 Richard Troup/Russell Hannah Mazda RX2 195:24
26 Russell Woollard/Leigh Garrioch Datsun Bluebird 195:31
27 Richard Leitis/Robin Mules Ford Escort 196:00
28 Cameron Jay/Luke Milburn Ford Escort Mk 2 198:43
29 Mark Richards/Cody Richards Ford Escort Mk 2 199:38
30 Derrick White/Dave Smith Peugeot 504 200:31
31 Steve Ashton/Brenton Kaitler Mitsubishi Galant 200:33
32 Stephen Richards/Larry Walker Ford Escort Mk2 201:02
33 Tony Moore/Nikki Moore Hyundai Excel 202:05
34 Glenn Farrant/Russell Taylor Hyundai Excel 202:07
35 Adam Wilson/Scott Jennison Datsun 1600 202:12
36 Joel Wald/Tracey Dewhurst Datsun Stanza 202:48
37 Matt Thompson/Aaron Tams Datsun 180B 205:40
38 Richard Carter/Warren Medwell Datsun Stanza 206:25
39 Tod Reed/Bob West Ford Falcon XT 207:12
40 Gary Kendrick/Ron Gottschalk Datsun 1600 208:34
41 Neil Schey/Scott Middleton Ford Escort Mk2 RS2000 209:35
42 David Wellings/Scott Mitchell Datsun 1600 209:37
43 Graham Thompson/Winton Brocklebank Holden Commodore 211:05
44 Alex Kovacevic/Kate Cotter Fiat 131 211:11
45 David Lawrance/Darren Davison Datsun 1600 211:19
46 Bruce Dunn/Rhys Pinter Fiat 131 Rallye 211:24
47 Andrew Kavanagh/Tom Ruessman Datsun 180B 211:29
48 Jeff Hawkins/Kellie Pearce Lancia Beta coupe 214:11
49 Nathan Senior/Lisi Phillips Volvo 244 GL 214:14
50 Jesse Robison/Eddie MacGuire Datsun 1600 217:30
51 Gary Carruthers/Stuart Carruthers Ford Falcon XR GT 219:06
52 Troy Brendel/Samantha Brendel Ford Escort 219:32
53 Michael Long/Vaughan Haskett Datsun 180B SSS 221:13
54 William Cromarty/Hugh Maslin Chrysler Lancer LB 221:28
55 Doug Norman/Robert Knight Peugeot 504 221:32
56 Graham Pate/Cale Pearce Datsun 180B 222:12
57 Todd Knight/Brian Ward Peugeot 306 S16 228:29
58 Andrew Paice/Dick Denvil Datsun Stanza 229:27
59 Robert Cranston/Karl Grealy Toyota Celica 231:06
60 Andrei Artamonov/Gleb Bonch Hyundai Excel 232:10
61 Gary Howard/Michael Loxton Toyota Celica TA22 233:24
62 David Allwright/Sam Allwright Mazda RX2 239:07
63 Bruce Shepherd/Simon Shepherd Peugeot 505 241:38
64 Jonathan Byrnes/Stuart Diggins Hyundai Excel 244:03
65 Gary Gibbons/George Davidson jnr Ford Escort 245:34
66 John Ellis/Adrian Sietsma Fiat 1500 Mk III 249:02
67 Bruce Field/Julia Field Mercedes 280 249:54
68 James Elliott/Cathy Rainer Hyundai Lantra 259:47
69 Simon Crane/Mark Thomas Mitsubishi Galant 293:28
70 Tim Reynolds/Simon Reynolds Datsun 180B 300:38
71 Thomas Davidson/James Davidson Chrysler Lancer LA 335:59
72 Brett Ross/James Rooke Holden Commodore 429:56
73 Gerard Blum/Steph Richards Hyundai Excel 530:53

2 Major Controls Missed
74 Harvey Smith/Rhys Llewellyn Mitsubishi Sigma 197:34

3 Major Controls Missed
75 Murray Rogers/Jason Selmon Toyota Sprinter 252:23
76 Aaron Bowering/Nathan Lowe Datsun 200B 830:51

4 Major Controls Missed
77 Joshua Leask/Suzanne Grahan Datsun Stanza 227:11

6 Major Controls Missed
78 Doug Fernie/Geoff Floyd Datsun P510 Bluebird 150:16

8 Major Controls Missed
79 Ross O'Reilly/Tim McGill Nissan Bluebird 910 SSS 146:33
80 Mark Sutcliffe/Jason Milner Nissan Skyline R30 194:06
81 Geoff Hale/Alan Baker Volkswagen Golf GLS 208:34

14 Major Controls Missed
82 Damion Smith/Kylie Turner Datsun 1600 102:29

Did not finish the event
Luke Anderson/Greg McPherson Datsun 180B Steering damage (23)
Ian Menzies/Bon McGowan Ford Falcon XR8 Off road (23)
Brian Canny/Paul Crosbie Porsche 944 No reason given (AA)
Jamie Lawson/Noel Lawson Holden
Commodore Broken diff (Z)
Dean Hasnat/Matthew Petersen Holden Commodore VC No
reason given (19)
Jeff Lee/Jo Lee Triumph 2.5 PI Mk 1 No reason given (18)
Kim Harper/David Gallacher Ford Escort RS2000 No
reaosn given (18)
Phil Thomas/Ken Radnell Holden Commodore No reason given (18)
David Boyd/Sam McMahon Datsun Stanza No reason given (18)
Brian Semmens/Dan Parry Nissan 200SX RV S12 Hit stump (18)
Paul Stephens/Stephen Mitchell Datsun 1600 No reason give3n (W)
Craig Neave/Damien Wilson Mitsubishi Sigma GJ Mechanical (V)
Ian Curry/Sarah Curry Datsun 1600 No reason given (U)
Ian Crook/Peter Ellis Rover SD1 No reason given (U)
Michael Foreshew/Rick Walton Ford Cortina Mk
2 Blowm engine (T)
Peter Morrison/Susan Wasson Hyundai Excel Hit tree (14)
Michael Ward/Jenny Pollock Toyota Corolla No reason given (14)
Lachlan Smith/Karen Keene Ford Escort Engine problems (O)
Ted Perkins/Joel Perkins Ford Cortina GT No reason given (11)
Hilary Evans/Darren Miller Datsun 1600 SSS Hit tree (11)
Peter Canning/Chris Wallace Datsun 1600 Roll damage (N)
Fro Horobin/Paul Marando Datsun 180B Gearbox (9)
Lee Peterson/Daniel Willson Nissan Sunny
GTi Engine failure (9)
Sean Hudgson/Phil Nicholas Datsun 1600 Seized motor (9)
Joe Wilson/Martin Warneke Triumph 2500 PI Overheating (SV1)
Andrew Taylor/Robin Smalley Mazda RX7 Off road (4)
Ken MacDonald/Bob Ellis Ford Lotus Cortina No reason given (DT)
Darryn Snooks/Matt de Vaus Datsun Stanza Blown engine (C)
Matt Ruggles/Guy Ruggles Triumph TR7 V8 No reason given (B)
Peter Otzen/Paul Franklin Datsun 180B SSS Rolled (1)
Lee Peterson/Daniel Willson Nissan Sunny
GTi Engine failure (9)
Sean Hudgson/Phil Nicholas Datsun 1600 Seized motor (9)
Joe Wilson/Martin Warneke Triumph 2500 PI Overheating (SV1)
Andrew Taylor/Robin Smalley Mazda RX7 Off road (4)
Ken MacDonald/Bob Ellis Ford Lotus Cortina No reason given (DT)
Harvey Smith/Rhys Llewellyn Mitsubishi Sigma Rolled (3)
Darryn Snooks/Matt de Vaus Datsun Stanza Blown engine (C)
Matt Ruggles/Guy Ruggles Triumph TR7 V8 No reason given (B)
Peter Otzen/Paul Franklin Datsun 180B SSS Rolled (1)

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on December 06, 2011, 09:55:41 AM
Another video, and some stills for you to enjoy.
Thanks to Doutchy and Golly for the pics.



Have a look at the attitude of the car.Left rear fully compressed and front right hovering. All whilst drifting sideways in second gear.

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/gregIMG_0052.jpg)

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/384053_10150443287059237_579354236_8312736_781618791_n.jpg)

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/387938_10150443248409237_579354236_8312574_301216475_n.jpg)

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/gregAQ8Z2392.jpg)

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/gregAQ8Z2396.jpg)

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/gregAQ8Z2396.jpg)

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/gregAQ8Z2401.jpg)

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/gregAQ8Z3424.jpg)

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/gregAQ8Z3425a.jpg)

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/gregAQ8Z3428.jpg)

My kind of car wash! Full noise in second.

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/gregAQ8Z4883.jpg)

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/gregAQ8Z4884.jpg)

(http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab11/redalfaracing/Alpine%20Rally%202011/gregAQ8Z4885.jpg)

Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on December 15, 2011, 09:37:35 AM
Provisional results for the Alpine are out.
Seems we slipped 2 places in the wash. Our times stayed the same, but some others had some corrections which saw them move above us. 26th outright now. Still extremely happy with the result given the conditions. Also happy nothing to fix on the GTV6.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: Mike on December 22, 2011, 01:23:11 AM
Sensational photos!  Now there's an Alfa that's being enjoyed!
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: wankski on December 27, 2011, 09:09:32 PM
very cool, nice one ;D
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on January 02, 2012, 02:33:28 PM
Quote from: Mike on December 22, 2011, 01:23:11 AM
Sensational photos!  Now there's an Alfa that's being enjoyed!
Indeed Mike, enjoy it alot, probably the single best thing i own!

Quote from: paul edwards on December 22, 2011, 04:44:23 PM
Yep, great photos and some even better driving.
Greg, l don't think you are trying hard enough, I'm sure you could have got the old girl on two wheels in some of those photos, and some even bigger corner entry angles. ::) ::) ::) :o :o :o ;D 
The GTV6 looks to be right at home on a loose surface.  I bet the bloke in the crowd with the Datsun tee-shirt on, wishes he could put the power down like that in his Datsun... and still go straight ahead.

Ok Greg, we know you have built a GTV6 that is fast enough to win, and you don't lack any driver commitment.  You have recorded some outright fastest stage times on more than a few occasions, so the obvious question is when do you think you will win an event?  You must be thinking to your self, that it's only a matter of time before you find yourself winning a rally. 

Cheers Paul

Yep, they are good pics. I cherish the pics that people send me of events.. after all, when i get old and the car is all banged up, all i will have is a pile of worn out rally tyres, some plastic trophies and these pics.
But i must say, Paul, you have a short memory, remember back in February of last year (11 months ago) Dale and I won the Millard Memorial Trial?? I call that a rally win. We are going to enter it this year. It's on Feb 28th at Heywood. See how we go with back to back wins. This time i'll make sure the front doughnut is sound.

The Alpine was a very tough event. It rained all Friday night until about 10 am Saturday and made the roads a little treacherous. Unfortunately i only had Yokohama tyres (6 new) and the tread is not that great in boggy conditions. I would be interested to know how many other guys were on Yokeys, The only other 2 i know for sure was Andrew Taylor ( hit tree big time on stage 4) and Brian Semmens (hit stump big time on Sunday) I wonder just how their tyres played a role in that?
We didnt go out to win. We had a game plan which consisted of not hitting anything and finishing the event. Achieved! The last Alpine i drove was in 2007 when i was travelling 16th out right and with 2 stages to go i left the road, bent the de-dion, tore the watts link off the rh bracket and broke the rh drive shaft. We limped home in 51st position. ( if i had outboard discs we would have been stuck where we crashed) So Paul, happy with the result this time around. 2013 we will have a different plan. No reason why i wont have the 24 valve under the bonnet and i'm thinking top 10 is achievable. There is a lot of talent and some very fast cars now you can do engine transplants. There was a Plymouth Fire Arrow in the event, which is a lancer with a 2.6 l 4 cylinder. Apparently sold in the usa in limited numbers. That car was fast!!! fully worked engine, close ratio box, 900 kgs and the driver was a great steerer. In all the rallies i have been in, never been caught by anyone till that guy caught me in the Alpine. Admittedly i was feeling a bit stuffed by that stage so wasn't going 10/10ths but he caught up 2 minutes in about 30 km, I let him past and i could stay with him, but it was an effort. That thing just leapt out of the corners. P/w ratio much better than the GTV6. I think the 24 valve should even it up a bit.
I got JK's new book on v6 alfas for chrissy. Haven't read it in detail yet, but i'm sure i will glean something from it.
Working on a new sump at the moment. Bigger job than i first thought.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on March 14, 2012, 04:26:45 PM
hi greg
A mate is looking at making an alfetta rally car and being that you have rallied one just after a few quick mods that you have done to get it suited a little better, tools and experience are not a factor in making these mods either, I remember some thing with the rear end but not what it was
thanks dehne
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 14, 2012, 08:25:12 PM
Quote from: dehne on March 14, 2012, 04:26:45 PM
hi greg
A mate is looking at making an alfetta rally car and being that you have rallied one just after a few quick mods that you have done to get it suited a little better, tools and experience are not a factor in making these mods either, I remember some thing with the rear end but not what it was
thanks dehne

Dehne, great to hear of another Alfa rally car about to be born. Will it be a sedan or a coupe?
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: dehne on March 14, 2012, 09:17:54 PM
it will be a sedan, He has a 200hp engine for it and lock diff so could get a little interesting
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 15, 2012, 11:13:41 AM
Dehne, i don't know what sort of a driver he is, but a locked diff probably isn't ideal. I have always thought that a good LSD is the key to a successful rally car. He might have a bit of an understeer problem, so the key will be to keep the back loose. I take the rear stabiliser off my rally cars but this one may need to use one to prevent understeer.
But with 200 ponies it is likely to be a fun thing to drive. My sedan is only 82 rwkw and just over 1000 kg and it gets along pretty good.
Title: Re: 3l GTV6 PRC project
Post by: redalfaracing on March 23, 2012, 06:54:37 PM
The GTV6 gets a run tomorrow night. The Gil Davis Memorial Trial, run by HRA staged in Powelltown is round 2 of the VCRS. I am car 45, but running 10th on the road. Dale is also driving (in his Datsun 240K) so i have Jed Blum navving for me. Scrutiny was Wednesday night, passed no issues.
Doutchy will be there, so i'm guessing i'll have some pics next week.