Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Racing => Historic Group S Racing => Topic started by: alfagtv58 on July 17, 2006, 01:04:25 PM

Title: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on July 17, 2006, 01:04:25 PM
Picked up my new toy on the weekend ;D

Cant wait to get started....I will post some progressive shots.

The photos below are pretty low quality, I took them with my phone!
Title: Great looking car
Post by: jimnielsen on July 17, 2006, 05:09:20 PM
It looks great Phil! I am jealous - when do you think that you will have it ready for competition?

cheers, Jim Nielsen
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Evan Bottcher on July 17, 2006, 10:04:09 PM
Well I reckon the 6-hour in November would be a great 'shake-down'...  ::)

Looks great Phil - please keep the photos rolling in...!
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on July 18, 2006, 09:18:47 AM
Looks great Phil, Congrats!!

Can't wait to see it on the track!
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on July 18, 2006, 09:29:55 AM
Ah yes, the 64 thousand dollar question.....when will it be ready for competition :-\.  This question has been keeping me awake at night lately, Claudia (my wife) thinks its drinking coffee to late at night, if I told her what it really was she would just shake her head slowly and roll her eyes!!

I am hoping that the 6 hour will be its competition debut, however I don't think it will be completely finished in Group S format or log booked by then (due partly to time & partly to $$).  I really hope to have it ready for Phillip Island Historics early next year.  A few things need to fall into place first though...
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on July 18, 2006, 10:02:27 AM
This is lucky Phil... ;D

What a score Phil, well done - i am jealous. :'(
Did you find this locally and in the paper or by word of mouth etc?
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on July 18, 2006, 10:27:51 AM
Actually, I found it right here on the Forum.

So, Evan, I dips my lid to you......this forum is fantastic!
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Victor Lee on July 18, 2006, 06:04:44 PM
Hey Phil,  as the "opposition" @ the 6 hour, we don't mind if that's your new toy's first outing!  Gives us all a better chance! (especially after your teams' fantastic performance @ Mallala!)  :D
Seriously though, it looks like a great buy and hope to see it in action before the 6 hour.  Cheers!  Victor
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on September 13, 2006, 08:00:09 PM
It’s been a little while so I thought I might update my progress with a few photo’s.  I think I may have underestimated the work involved in body prep, it’s kind of consuming my life at the moment!

Anyway, the ROPS has been fitted, I have stripped the body deadener (boy, that’s a fun job…..), started sanding back the paint which resulted in two things 1. it turned my garage and all its contents a magnificent shade of red and 2. revealed the true extent of the rust that lies beneath (some bits better than expected, some bits worse) and the engine is all but ready to be removed.  Next step, remove engine, some seam welding and also welding in replacement sections in the rust spots then hopefully off to the painter.

Cheers,

Phil.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on September 13, 2006, 08:08:52 PM
A few more....
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on September 28, 2006, 01:58:21 PM
are you keeping those gold rims?

not that they look healthy in these pics, but i might know someone who might like them especially given you cant use those in group S. ::)
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on September 28, 2006, 04:48:59 PM
I had planned to keep them......why would I not be able to use them in Group S ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: branko.gt on September 28, 2006, 06:49:04 PM
I had planned to keep them......why would I not be able to use them in Group S ??? ??? ???

i think that historics people get bit anal about correct period look !   ???  :o
If you demonstrate that those wheels are corect for the period you should be fine  ;)
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Evan Bottcher on September 28, 2006, 07:08:45 PM
They look pretty 70s to me!  I can't imagine you having any issue.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on September 29, 2006, 09:15:30 AM
As Branko states, they need to be period style... but its more than a sphincter issue.
I believe they also have to be ex factory i.e. a genuine alfa optional wheel to the standard steel road wheels which is why all the other Group Sc drivers run original wheels even in comp. although running R-specs on steel rims does raise another issue...

Happy to be corrected but...
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on September 29, 2006, 09:22:32 AM
okay, we are both right...
Sc rules state - "Wheels are required to be in original diameter.  Replacement sof standard style wheels by period style alloy wheels will be considered on individual application".

So, you need to go see Graham Hoinville and get em approved before your first meet and they cannot exceed 6" width or 60% profile.

Tyres are a control item too.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on September 29, 2006, 10:32:04 AM
Tyres are a sticky (hahaha I'm so funny ;D) issue with group S at the moment as it seems the manufacturers are running out of appropriate sizes to suit certain cars.  There has been talk about giving a tolerance in wheel size (+/- 1" dia.) or making one control tyre for all etc.

First link below is the current CAMS bulletin in relation to approved tyres for Group S, as you can see there are a lot allowed but you need to find the correct size and ratio.

http://www.cams.com.au/bulletins/B06-014%20Historic%20Group%20N%20-%20Approved%20Tyre%20List.pdf

Second link is a paper put together by the Group S racing association.

http://www.groupsracing.org.au/Documents/GROUP%20S%20TYRE%20AVAILABILITY%202006.pdf
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: branko.gt on September 29, 2006, 11:04:28 AM
....

So, you need to go see Graham Hoinville and get em approved before your first meet and they cannot exceed 6" width or 60% profile.

...

I think you need to see John Caffin, he is eligibility officer for group S for Victoria. He will want a written submission with pictures and any supporting evidence you cna muster.
The general approach the historics take is, you need to have a good reason to use what factory did not deliver and have to prove that was common at the time. Failing that, it needs to look fitting to the eligibility office. The onus is on you to prove why a change is appropriate in your particular case, not on them to prove why you cannot use something other then factory delivered standard equipment.
Relatively safe way to go is to look at what other, already competing cars are using. 
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on September 29, 2006, 02:44:41 PM
Well, you are all right!! 

ATM you must run a 14x6 wheel of/or similar to the wheels of the period.  For instance some are running a "minilite" style wheel or are using the slotted Campagnolo wheels.  I wouldn't run steel wheels.  The standard spoked Alfetta alloys would also be a good choice.  The "Hot Wires" would also probably be ok as long as they are 14x6 however a quick call to John Caffin or John Bate in the VHRR is probably not a bad idea just to be sure but I seriously doubt they will be a problem.  You will not need to make a formal application.

The proposal on wheel sizes is just that - a proposal - the historic commission has not ruled on that issue atm.  This is probably got a way to go before there is a resolution.  So right now and for the forseeable future it is 14x6 only.

Tyres must be from the produiction car list which I have just posted in the group s news section (same as the list in Phil's post) and must be 60% profile.  Most Alfa competitors are running the Yoky AO32 which has just been superceded by the AO48 which has been just added to the production car list.  The AO48 is the control tyre for a number of classes (eg Aus Prodn Car Champ) and is short supply ATM but should free up by the time we are ready.  I have ordered a set which I will run on the Blue GT at the 6 hr.  The size is 195 60 14.  The AO48 is faster than the AO32.  You can use other tyres if you want as long as they are from the list.  AO48's are about $230 each.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on September 29, 2006, 03:48:29 PM
what's the pcd of a alfetta GTV please?
Also i notice no Dunlop D01s on the list and many club sprinters run those which is a pity
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: branko.gt on September 30, 2006, 02:10:24 AM
what's the pcd of a alfetta GTV please?
...

same as your car and fiats and .... , 4x98
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Paul Newby on October 03, 2006, 11:30:37 PM
Guys,

I wouldn't get too hung up on the wheel issue. I know they get a bit anal re period wheels for Group C, but this isn't the case with Group S.

Realistically any 14 x 6 wheel should be OK, it will look period because its 14 inch! Some of the guys up here are using Panasports (imported from the States) and a couple of us are using period Momos (with the plastic caps) as they have a favourable offset and are out there in reasonable numbers (and cheap.) The standard alloys are only 5.5 inch and are not really suitable. As for steel rims ..... ::)
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on December 04, 2006, 07:56:19 PM
A bit more progress....March is fast approaching, I may be putting the (light) beer on and asking for some re-building help soon!!
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on December 04, 2006, 08:00:01 PM
Few more pics.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on December 04, 2006, 09:14:55 PM
Looking good - PI is a shoe in!
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on December 06, 2006, 02:10:59 PM
A bit more progress....March is fast approaching, I may be putting the (light) beer on and asking for some re-building help soon!!

Only too happy to assist where i can and learn as i go for my own project S car.  Just say when.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on December 06, 2006, 02:13:42 PM
So Ed you're not doing much over xmas then.....boy have we got plenty of work for you.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on December 06, 2006, 02:26:15 PM
Scott, Thats one thats taken the bait with light beer.  I think we should up the anti to heavy beer now and see who else we can land.  And maybe a pizza as well (Ed wont get this as he signed up for light beer only).  Neil Choi has no option, he is helping.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on December 06, 2006, 05:58:29 PM
i'm more productive on light beer... that and i only way 75 kilos so a carton at a time will work  ;D

Ohh, did i tell you that i cant weld, cut straight, drill straight and have no mechanical ability and that i am good at scrounging stuff for my own stash?  we used to call it  logistical relocation in the army ::)

Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on December 06, 2006, 08:10:10 PM
The light beer thing works but it's the rest that may be a problem.  He still sounds more skilled that me though.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on January 11, 2007, 07:22:15 PM
Car is now painted and bits starting to go on....
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Evan Bottcher on January 11, 2007, 10:17:10 PM
 :P :P :P OMG she's going to be bewdiful...!

Plain red or are you going for a stripe/paint scheme?
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on January 12, 2007, 09:30:22 AM
I was thinking of a couple of white stripe's similar to that on the WTCC Alfa's (see picture)....but to be honest time is getting away from me to have the car ready so the stripes are falling way down the (long) priority list :-\
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Evan Bottcher on January 13, 2007, 12:40:56 AM
I'm tempted by the striping in vinyl sold here:

http://www.tricked-graphics.com/high-performance-racing-stripes-c-577.html
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on January 15, 2007, 11:54:07 AM
That's pretty cool, nice and easy....good find Evan!  I noticed that they suggest not putting these stripes on until 6 weeks after the car has been painted to let it cure properly.....guess that leaves me a few weeks, maybe after Phillip Island ???
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Evan Bottcher on January 15, 2007, 10:16:43 PM
That would be "good find Edward" he pointed it out to me... :-P
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on January 16, 2007, 09:06:32 AM
And i was going to mention this site too until i realised i had forgotten what the link was so good team work  :P
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on January 16, 2007, 05:31:49 PM
Nice.  That will be a great - we won't mix the cars up.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Simon Bidese on January 19, 2007, 01:28:59 PM
looking good Phil go the stripes 8)
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on January 23, 2007, 10:52:19 PM
I like these:

http://www.tricked-graphics.com/speed-flame-kits-c-556.html
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Colin Byrne on January 24, 2007, 09:53:43 AM
All you’d need then scott are some spinners and you’d have a full pimp mobile!
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on January 29, 2007, 02:06:59 PM
I think they should do an Alfa Edition of "Pimp My Ride"

Fully Sick.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Victor Lee on January 29, 2007, 11:34:13 PM
When we were holding our monthly radio controlled nights back in 1995 (with the Tamiya 1/10 scale Alfa 155's) someone upsized the German DTM stickers that went onto these cars to 1:1 scale.

It may be possible that someone's still got a set.  I think it was one of Hugh Harrison's customers.  Ask Hugh if he remembers.

Victor
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on February 21, 2007, 09:40:36 AM
The last few weeks have been very hectic....very, very hectic!  Lots of stuff has been done but in the rush I haven't taken many photos, I will try to rectify that in the next couple of days.

This weekend should see the car inspected for eligibility and Monday I will lodge paperwork at CAMS for logbook.  See you at Winton!

Attached are some photos I took last night with my phone, short motor is together and in the car (yay!).
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on February 21, 2007, 11:10:39 AM
excellent progress Phil. I dont want to be the lonely guy @ P.I :'(

That'll mean we will have 2 x red GTV's side by side.  Cant wait to see yours but it will put mine to shame :-\

Good luck with the eligibility inspection.  I spoke to one of them yesterday and they seem quite keen & positive to their task.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on February 21, 2007, 05:25:34 PM
Pictures don't do it justice!  Looks fantastic.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Mike on February 25, 2007, 10:04:04 PM
so is the little beast together now?  Will it be at Winton this weekend?  Would love to see it
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on February 26, 2007, 01:33:11 PM
Yes - and hopefully my car as well.  Both are very close to being finished.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on February 28, 2007, 09:26:39 AM
Project 'S' is alive, she got fired up for the first time last night ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Extractors and collector pipe only, probably not the right carby jets and no throttle linkage yet......but it ran!

I am so happy.....also tired....but happy ;D
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Victor Lee on February 28, 2007, 05:47:59 PM
Hi Phil,

Everything go ok with the car's inspection on Sunday?

Victor
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on February 28, 2007, 06:21:18 PM
Hi Phil,

Everything go ok with the car's inspection on Sunday?

Victor

Yes it did thanks Victor, John Caffin was a great guy....after the inspection John, his wife Sandra and I had a coffee and chatted for some time.

The paperwork has now been submitted to CAMS and all seems to be under control......famous last words!!
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on March 01, 2007, 09:10:26 AM
Bloody awesome Phil! ;D ;D ;D

see i told you John was a great guy :D

Good luck with paperwork and final touches.  I have brake issues to be sorted out tomorrow and still deciding what to do wheel, tyre wise - run my 14x6 rials with 195x14 D01J's (technically sold with the sprint and getting toward their end) or the 16x8 DTM's & 225x16Falken R's (too big, not period and too slow). :-\

Anyone want to lend me a set of 14x6 @ 98pcd with R'spec tyres for a weekend? ;D
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on March 13, 2007, 09:22:31 AM
What a cracker of a weekend  ;D I cannot remember the last time I had that much fun!  The car went like a rocket, I was able to put down a 2 min flat in the second race :o Really happy with that straight out of the box!

Qualified 28th - A little dissapointed with my lap time but 5 laps only with 50 cars on the track, no chance of a clear lap.
1st race 15th Outright and 2nd in class
2nd race 14th Outright and 2nd in class
3rd race 16th Outright and 2nd in class (brake drama's devoloped on 2nd lap so I just nursed the car home...)

I will attempt to get a full race report in the next edition of C+S mag.

PS. If you are building a GroupS car....hurry up, come and play ;)  If you are not.....why ??? ;)
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Colin Byrne on March 13, 2007, 09:30:42 AM
nice one phil
2 min out of the box is an awsome effort, what tyres where you running?, and what where the brake dramas, just pad fade?
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on March 13, 2007, 09:34:40 AM
You should be very happy and proud of yourself Phil.  It was a pleasure to share a marquue / garage with you and to watch and hear your machine on the circuit.  a 2.00 lap time in your Sunday morning race at this cars first real race meeting was awesome.
The car was a credit to all those involved in its development.

Good to see the Vics are finally taking the challenge up to our interstae compatriots who have "owned" our local event for years.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on March 13, 2007, 10:37:13 AM
nice one phil
2 min out of the box is an awsome effort, what tyres where you running?, and what where the brake dramas, just pad fade?

Thanks Colin, Tyres are the new Yokohama A048's, Brakes not too sure at this stage but the rear reservior was almost empty (was full before I went out) so I imagine I have drawn some air into the system and the pedal was going to the floor by the end.

Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on March 13, 2007, 09:10:43 PM
Sensational first race weekend - can't think of a better debut!

Couldn't of hoped for a better start to the Vic Grp S series!  I think your experience is a great example of the Grp S concept in action.  Well done.

By the way you are now officially leading the AROCA Grp S Challenge Race and Sprint Series pointscore for 2007!
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on March 14, 2007, 09:09:52 AM
Do i get points for being there too, albeit in a different event  ???
Unless my car was of Group S era, i could not have entered :'(
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on March 14, 2007, 05:03:32 PM
Oh Ed,

I had originally put forward a trophy for Group S Races for the year at 4 events - PI, Winton Winton Sandown and for Group S Sprint competitors at the AROCA Sprint days but had not thought of those in regularity - maybe have a Grp S Regularity trophy for the same events as the race trophy?  May help to get prospective competitors at least along to the meeting prior to going all the way much like what you are doing - talk about it tonight.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on May 02, 2007, 04:42:09 PM
I was thinking of a couple of white stripe's similar to that on the WTCC Alfa's (see picture)....but to be honest time is getting away from me to have the car ready so the stripes are falling way down the (long) priority list :-\

remember when we talked about racing stripes especially those available from www.trickedgraphics.com.au and the overcatering of red GTV's being prepped for Group Sc?

Well, i've bought the stripes and applied them myself yesterday.  Now for someone who cant cut, drill, saw straight or put a decal on without bubbles, i didnt do a half bad job.  pics attached.

I bought the cheapest set available and they were easy to apply.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Colin Byrne on May 02, 2007, 04:53:34 PM
Looks good ed, very good (looks pretty straight in the photo to)
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Evan Bottcher on May 02, 2007, 06:28:44 PM
Very nice!  Show us a picture of those wheels?
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on May 02, 2007, 07:29:33 PM
this is the best pic i have right now.

They are 15"s  so no good for Group S but fine for everything else.  As soon as i can sell my 16x 7.5"s i can afford to put Dunlop D01j's on ;D
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Colin Byrne on May 03, 2007, 07:38:48 AM
Quote
As soon as i can sell my 16x 7.5"s i can afford to put Dunlop D01j's on

What about bridgstone re55's, that's what i'm running and they seem really good
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on May 03, 2007, 08:35:11 AM
They may not be the cheapest but intended to fit the Dunlops as i am most familiar and comfortable with them having run them on 3 different cars and of course get great service from Stuckey's.  The only other Rspec rubber i have used before was Toyo Trampio's 
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on May 03, 2007, 09:17:28 AM
My car is getting buffed this week, I should have the stripes on mine in a week or so.  I will post some photo's when finished.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on May 03, 2007, 11:54:15 AM
I like the stripes - which ones are you getting Phil so we don't look the same?
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on May 03, 2007, 01:02:05 PM
http://www.tricked-graphics.com/high-performance-racing-stripes-c-577.html

Follow above link, I have got the 200mm/50mm ones sitting at home waiting.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on May 03, 2007, 04:02:02 PM
OK - I'll go something different....
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: alfagtv58 on May 03, 2007, 04:27:00 PM
Scott, you were talking about doing a white nose on your car at one stage (in the Malvern Motorsport Car 1 post), given that you need a touch up on the front have you given any more thought to doing the white nose?
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on May 03, 2007, 04:36:07 PM
There wont be a plain red Group S GTV at all the way we are going ::)  One extreme to the other...
I like the idea of a white nose.  I only did the stripe thing cos once again i have a car with poor paintwork that needs to be hidden or is that disguised to look like a race car (The driver sure aint a race driver).
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Scott Farquharson on May 03, 2007, 04:42:02 PM
I like the white nose but it is a lot of work.  I think I'll go two big stripes, Cobra style!
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Craig Sinclair on May 03, 2007, 09:20:05 PM
Ed, did you get the serpent logo from the same supplier?  I can't find it & I do like it! I've been thinking of stripes for my red GT too, perhaps in green.
Title: Re: Project 'S'!
Post by: Fast Eddie on May 03, 2007, 11:07:38 PM
Serpents - big n small (bonnet and front guards) and 2 piece windscreen banner supplied by Jeff @ instasign Bayswater.  He has most Alfa images on file so can cut pretty much anything in any colour.

email - instasign@goconnect.net