Hi all..
My good lady's Millenium Spider (1999 twinspark 2.0) on a recent outing has suffered an engine issue.
Driving was all OK until she said she heard a "flapping" sound that increased and then the engine died.
She was able to pull over and car it has been towed home on tilt tray. The RAC garage said they reset fault codes but no result. They also said they could not detect any spark at the plugs. They also checked and there were no drive belts broken or damaged.
When it was delivered home, I disconnected battery and shorted leads to kill ecu/computer and recharged battery.
Reconnected and turned on ignition.. heard fuel pump start up OK and no warning lights on dash.
Tried to start but, although engine turned over freely, no sign of life and the injector fault light showed.
My OBD2 diagnostic tool showed a "communication error" when connected so cannot read any codes (bummer).
Have tried to use an older OBD2 usb scanner but still no communication.
Read somewhere that it would be worth checking the 3 12v x 30 amp relays located behind the RHS headlight assembly but they all check out fine.
Another suggestion was to check the crank sensor which I have not been able to do yet (I have rather large hands and the space is very cramped). If I can get a functioning scanner, would a faulty crank sensor show?
Anyone have a scanner/software combo they use on this model (and was it EOBD in 1999 or just OBD2 by then)?
Any suggestions welcome.
Nick
"Flapping Sound" ?
I would completely remove the Cam Belt covers completely and check the belts again.
Other than that, without doing a diagnostic with dedicated Alfa Romeo diagnostic software you're chasing your tail.
Thanks for that..
Was on my list so will check before going too much further.
If belt is broken, looks like (at a minimum):
Reconditioned head
Bearing shells
New timing belt kit
etc.
Just had complete new exhaust system and cat converter fitted too!
That's an Alfa for you.
Nick
i the cambelt changes are kept up to date these engines are generally reliable. I had one for about 10 years, only time it failed was a bosch crank angle sensor.
Thanks Pasey
Was going to check the sensor as well.
When your crank angle sensor went, what were symptoms?
N
engine starts and runs till the sensor heats up then engine dies. Cranks over but does not start.
Quote from: pasey25 on February 05, 2021, 09:15:43 AM
engine starts and runs till the sensor heats up then engine dies. Cranks over but does not start.
But restarts after the sensor has cooled somewhat below the temp at which it won't work.
Regards,
John.
Quote from: The Count on February 05, 2021, 08:58:23 AM
Thanks for that..
Was on my list so will check before going too much further.
If belt is broken, looks like (at a minimum):
Reconditioned head
Bearing shells
New timing belt kit
Because it is a pent roof combustion chamber the pistons won't hit the valves in alignment with the axis of the valve stems, but at a significant angle to it. Consequently the stems would bend
relatively easily, and the impact loading transferred along the rods and onto the bearings would not be all that great in the scheme of things.
So while in the aftermath of a piston / valve contact it might be ideal insurance to replace the bearing shells, IMO it probably isn't going to be necessary. It might be a very different thing if the valve stem axis were at 0° to the piston stroke, as any impact would be very substantial because the crankshafts' leverage to easily bend the valve stem would be virtually zero.
Regards,
John.
Thanks all.
Re Crank Angle sensor, I got no spark even when engine was cold so wondering if this would rule out the sensor altogether or, if the sensor is completely stuffed or disconnected there would be no spark?
Crank angle Sensors DO fail completely when they feel like it and thus you would get no spark.
Again, easiest way to confirm is to have the car given a diagnostic scan.
I assume you have checked the cam belts?
And the good news is....
Finally managed to get a working scan on the OBD2 port using my very old VagCom USB connector and the Multiecuscan software and the only fault code is P0335, Faulty RPM sensor (which I am assuming is the aforementioned crank angle sensor).
Got the timing belt covers open enough to check that all belts are running smoothly with little if any signs of wear.
From reading forums, I gather that replacing the sensor is one of those "Alfa" jobs for people with very small hands and very large amounts of patience.
2 schools of thought seem to operate, one says do the job from below with car on hoist or stands and the other says do it from above and remove some hoses for better access. I'm willing to take the advice of someone who's done this before as to the best way.
I guess there's always the 3rd alternative... take to a mechanic but in the NW of Tasmania, people who know (or are even willing to take on) Alfas are thin on the ground.
Also, I'm hearing that Bosch replacement is better than generics..true???
Anyhow, will report developments with sincere thanks to all who've responded so far!
N
Hi Nick
Another tell tale sign for a faulty crank angle sensor, is failure to register on the dashboard rev counter whilst cranking the engine. If you are planning to change the crank angle sensor yourself, find attached link on "How to replace crank angle sensor on 2.0L JTS and Twin spark engines".
https://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_147_156_gt_crank_shaft_sensor_replacement.shtml
Quote from: bonno on February 08, 2021, 05:24:01 PM
Hi Nick
Another tell tale sign for a faulty crank angle sensor, is failure to register on the dashboard rev counter whilst cranking the engine. If you are planning to change the crank angle sensor yourself, find attached link on "How to replace crank angle sensor on 2.0L JTS and Twin spark engines".
https://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/alfa_147_156_gt_crank_shaft_sensor_replacement.shtml
Oh yes, if it were only that simple and easy. It is literally a 2 minute job with the engine out, but with engine in, it's all about access and getting your hand's on things, as it is with all things Alfa!
All those ever been in that situation of "I can see it, it's right there in front of my face . . . . there's just no f@cking way to get to it /get it out!" . . . . raise your hands . . . . . ::)
Seriously though, take you time, be patient and you should have no problems, just hope the sensor hasn't swollen up in the hole, you'll understand what I mean if it has happened.
Quote from: bazzbazz on February 08, 2021, 07:18:18 PM
Seriously though, take you time, be patient and you should have no problems, just hope the sensor hasn't swollen up in the hole, you'll understand what I mean if it has happened.
Forceps delivery!
O Ye Prophets of Doom!
Yes, I have read about the nightmare that is replacing the crank angle sensor on a Spider.
What nobody has yet mentioned is which method works best. Even the Alfa UK walkthrough does not say whether the picture of the sensor and its allen key bolt is taken from above or below.
Any who has done this successfully, I'd appreciate a brief summary of how you went about it and whether you removed and replaced the unit itself from above or below and what, if anything, you had to remove for ease of access.
Thanks, in advance
N
Stick a hand up/down and see if you can get a grip on it.
Will likely depend if the starter motor is above or below it.
On the 1.9JTD it is below the starter motor.. so I stuck my hand up (car on stands), it was a 5minute job after I worked out how to get sufficient leverage on the Allen key (use a good one, long)
Thanks all,
Have been waiting for our new shed to be finished before I start on this so that I have a nice, dry workplace and a level surface for stands/ramps.
Am about to order new crank angle sensor but (harping on my old question) if I choose to try replacing from below, will it be easier if I first remove the engine undertray to allow for more room/light for the job?
Nick
Yes
The next phase in the Crank Angle Sensor Saga.
Finally managed to find a mechanic prepared to work on the Spider.
The mechanic removed the old Crank Angle Sensor only to find that something inside the crankcase had literally bashed part of the end of the sensor off (see attached pic). There was quite a bit of damage compared with a new sensor.
Decided not to go ahead and fit the new one because there's no knowing what did the damage and a very good chance that the same thing will happen.
After a few calls, it would seem that the most likely culprit would be the fitting on the crankshaft that is "read" by the sensor but I have not been able to find an exploded diagram of the crank and its fittings anywhere.
Has anyone had the same experience?
To explore further would seem to be very labour intensive but necessary in order to find out what did the damage, replace it and remove any debris left behind by the breakage.
It would appear that this would be an "engine out" job?
Would appreciate any information on this, especially any diagrams of the crankshaft and sensor operation.