I'm looking to buy a 1973 spider, but have found this partic. vehicle has no compliance plate. VIN is AR2470403, Engine No AR0051258933.
It had a full bare metal body restoration approx 8 years ago, the seller believes the plate may have been removed then and not replaced.
The car appears to be an original RHD and has the twin brake boosters that would indicate an Aus delivered car (which is what I'd prefer).
It is currently on Vic Club Permit registration, and I have sighted the previous registration papers to prove it has previously been on full Victorian registration.
Vicroads website states that as long as there is proof of previous registration, it can be legally registered, they simply record it as having no plate.
My questions - should I be worried about the car's history? Is there any way, in the absence of the plate, I can confirm if this was an Australia delivered car? And lastly, does the absence of a plate reduce its authenticity and hence its resale when I sell it?
Many thanks.
If you want absolute certainty, I suggest you just pay the exorbitant fee to get original build and sale dates from Alfa's Centro Documentazione.That will confirm if it was a factory-to-Australia delivery.
The fee was 30 Euros a couple of years ago, but free when I got details on my GTV in 2015.
Thanks poohbah, I plan to, but they are closed until May 20! Will have to temper my eagerness.
The short answer to your last question is yes. If it should have a compliance plate and does not that will reduce its value for most people. Is it one of the cars on carsales at present or do you have any photos of it?
Quote from: JohnLW on May 07, 2020, 01:37:57 PM
I'm looking to buy a 1973 spider, but have found this partic. vehicle has no compliance plate. VIN is AR2470403, Engine No AR0051258933.
It had a full bare metal body restoration approx 8 years ago, the seller believes the plate may have been removed then and not replaced.
The car appears to be an original RHD and has the twin brake boosters that would indicate an Aus delivered car (which is what I'd prefer).
It is currently on Vic Club Permit registration, and I have sighted the previous registration papers to prove it has previously been on full Victorian registration.
Vicroads website states that as long as there is proof of previous registration, it can be legally registered, they simply record it as having no plate.
My questions - should I be worried about the car's history? Is there any way, in the absence of the plate, I can confirm if this was an Australia delivered car? And lastly, does the absence of a plate reduce its authenticity and hence its resale when I sell it?
Many thanks.
Rowan, is not actually being offered for sale at present, belongs to father of a neighbour. He has owned for 12 years, body restoration 8 years ago. Ive seen pics of the bare metal resto including the floors. Is vague/has poor memory so cannot recall re: compliance plate. Body looks very good, good paint and workmanship, have checked today with a magnet and no evidence of mass filler. Engine starts and idles well, is quiet, but could be smoother under acceleration, some missing and pinging. Car only gets out 5 times/year so that may be part of that problem, fuel system and plugs probably need cleaning at least. Driveline seems sound and quiet. Interior needs an overhaul partic seats which I dont mind doing.
Ok - I was interested in seeing photos to see if anything about it's history could be spotted particularly as to where it was originally delivered. If I was buying a car on the basis that it was supposed to be Australian delivered and was a 1973 model, i wouldn't be interested if it didn't have a compliance plate.
Rowan, am having trouble attaching images, if I can get over the issue Ill post a couple. Thanks, John.
Would it have even had an AU compliance plate affixed in 1973? I thought '73 was the start of ADRs so it may have missed out in the crossover period.
They had them from 1970.
Are the four rivet holes present where the plate would have been?
I'd be more concerned about the level of restoration to be honest, that is going to effect the value exponentially more than a missing compliance plate, especially if it is okay to be registered (in any state) based upon previous reg history/chassis numbers
(I'm not suggesting it hasn't been restored well.. but there is well, and there is properly.. so it never rusts again)
I don't believe Australian Compliance plates were introduced until sometime in 1973, possibly October. Some states like SA didn't even have them till 1977.
ADR's did start in 1969 but the plates came later.
The R/H/Drive 2000 Spider you list by your Chassis number was manufactured late in 1971
Emailing the Histrico is the ultimate way to confirm your vehicles history.....other than that you would need to turn up some original registration records. Club registration info is no use to you.
I don't consider this to be a problem, as has been opined earlier, condition is much more important. For example, none of the 35-50 split dash GTV6s have compliance plates and they were all registered as 2 litres!
I also owned an Australian delivered Subaru SVX, no compliance plate on that either. Some time ago I owned three Honda Coupe 9s (why?) all 1970-71. They had compliance plates with nothing on them..
If its been registered here before, you should have no problems. Relax and enjoy the car😎
An interesting discussion... While I worked in vehicle certification for ~14 years, it was all dealing with vehicles post Motor Vehicles Standards Act 1989. Prior to that, the states stipulated what standards were applicable and if a plate was required.
You will note the Pre 1989 plates had the ADRs to which they complied on them. Post 1989 plates only have the approval number on them. The details of the approval and ADRs that the vehicle was certified to was held in a publicly accessible database called RVCS. The state could check via the portal. After the introduction of the Act, the "Manufacturer" (importer) was responsible for affixing the compliance plate.
My latest personal acquisition (a '74 GTV 2000 - jigsaw puzzle) has the compliance plate fixed to the LH top of the firewall. This is the first time I have seen one there. I would say it was an indication that dealers fitted them. As I am most probably going to convert it to a Scalino, I will not re-affix the plate under the bonnet, but keep it in the glovebox...
You're correct Luke. In the 70's the plates were Dealer fitment and that arrangement was a bit loose too.
As for Australian standards back then, most Euro cars were built to a superior standard than ours. ADR's in fact required the removal of some things, like rear fog lamps and tinted front windscreens. In the case of Alfa Romeo the Australian cars were no different than what was delivered to other markets so I wouldn't be concerned one bit about the compliance plates.
Many years ago in Perth I restored a '75 Spider. It had no compliance plate, but was registered in WA, no issues. During the strip down, found a Krugerrand coin under the floor mats. Go figure.
Sold it to a TV producer in Melbourne about five years ago. Nice car, I miss it.
Agree with previous poster - no issue if no compliance plate as long as it's been previously registered.
My Giulia sedan was a 'consulate' car (employee) and imported from South Africa. No compliance plate and the ID was 'cleaned' and then stamped with new numbers from Vic Roads/Vic Police. No issue when i purchased it from a 'private citizen' and got it transferred in my name (around 1986).
As far as 'compliance plates' are concerned, are we talking about the same thing? The small piece of stamped aluminium attached somewhere on the car?
Or do we mean an 'ID' plate?
Lets look at locally produced cars. We know that the plate was affixed by the manufacturer, not the dealer!
In fact in Victoria, i believe its an offence to tamper with any plate (yes we know the muscle car guys took them off for safe keeping!). So if we look at a Falcon for example, there was
certainly an ID plate on the XR (front rad support) and then into the XW's when they got the bigger square plate affixed on the firewall. By the XA these had ADR details. All attached at the factory. Imagine what a mess the cars would have been if if they left it to the dealers!
It's also an offence to attach a plate from one car to another (see some of the high profile cases of Aussie Muscle cars where a 'rebody' was alleged).
I mean it doesn't make sense for a dealer to fit 'compliance' plates. They form part of the ID of the car and if a car was sent to a dealer, sans plate, i don't want to think what story they
would have spun to the poor unsuspecting buyer.
Cheers,
Paul.
For Alfa's and other foreign cars, I presume it was a requirement for the importer to attach the relevant tag to each car. I mean the tags themselves got the odd error (i have posted here before about an Alfa 1740 Spider!).
Compliance plate is not an ID plate, Alfa Romeo 105 ID is the stamped Chassis number on the firewall. (not any riveted on tags etc like you describe for GT Falcons)
Distribution of Alfa Romeos in that period were from various sources, but even for MB which I was involved with, many of the plates were indeed Dealer fitment. The RTA would mail out the plates to the dealers when they had details of imported vehicles having arrived after cross referencing.
As earlier stated, the C plate was not an issue with most European cars from that era because they were way way ahead of any Australian Design rules.
SEATBELTS
I know what the diff between an ID plate and a compliance plate is, i was trying to establish if there was any confusion between them in the
context of this discussion.
Dealers fitting compliance plates thats like giving the keys to the chook house to the fox!
But it always puzzled me, they seem to have fitted them to Alfa's during that period for a short time.
You see them on latish 1750's (and other contemporaries) and up to say 73'.
my 74' Aus delivered GTV doesn't have one. the Le Mans Blue car is a Feb 74 registered car and it seems to have one, mine is a late 74' reg.
Anyone know the start/cutoff ballpark dates?
Cheers.
I have had 3 Alfas with 12/70 compliance plates. Two series 2 1750 Gtvs and one Giulia Super. I don't recall seeing earlier plates but plenty of 1971, 1972 and 1973, from various states.
Thanks all, I've heard back from Alfa Romeo Historico, they confirm it's a December 24,1972 build (a Christmas Eve car gives me a whole new set of worries!), Delivered into Artarmon NSW June 1973 and chassis number matches to original engine number. So I'm now a little more comfortable.
That's great. They might have been in an especially good mood when finishing it