Hello everyone - have just joined this forum, have read your posts many times, lots of valuable advice. I bought a 147T 2 litre about six months ago - 95000 klms on it, body and interior immaculate, engine clean enough to eat lunch from. Last night suddenly warning message came up - engine max temp reached. Stopped for a while and restarted drove to destination. Filled water up, tap water only, after six hours water level low again. Topped up and drove home about 10klms, did not overheat. After another six hours just sitting water level low again. Again with plain water. No visible leaks anywhere, no puddles underneath. The water was very dirty. I am not a mechanic, nowhere to do work either, will be taking to workshop. Will post results when fixed. Thinking thermostat.
Have you checked the oil? If it's milky might indicate where it was going (head gasket)
Thank you - yes have checked the oil, still same clear as always - no signs of water in oil. One thing I did not mention - there appears to be a fair bit more (than usual) clear exhaust fumes ie like steam etc, however it is cold here and after about 15 minutes it appears to go away. The water is disappearing even when the motor is off and the car is standing flat - no puddles underneath, no signs of leaks around the hoses. No loss of power from engine either.
Wet passenger foot well? Could also be a heater core. Pin hole leak on a house could also cause those symptoms
Hopefully mechanic identifies what's wrong and it's an easy/cheap fix.
Gday.
Unfortunately from what you've described it sounds like a head gasket.
The first time you start it in the morning does the engine crank normally or does it crank slowly at first then start and run rough?
Mick.
Good day Mick - my fears are head gasket, workshop had a quick look this morning, they are unsure will be pressure testing etc next Tuesday - no it starts perfectly. no rough idle or running. Will post results - appreciate all advice - thanks. Engine water very rusty? Cannot explain that.
Hi Mick, Had the 147T pressure tested at Bridgestone Select Hobart (they look after my cars, Merc, Audi, Polo and Nissan BRC160 - they have done for years). Test results are a cracked head on the 147T. Not sure where to go from here but will not be repairing the car, far too costly for the age of car estimated about $3000 but until motor is opened up anything is possible. Body on car very good, minor dent on front (near grill) red interior looks like its hardly been used. Again thanks to all for the suggestions - I was fearing a head gasket at worst!!!
That's a shame. Can't get a warranted head and bits over from the mainland? Car sounds too good to wreck out.
Hi there - the car is really too good to wreck - body and interior like new. To repair the motor as I cant do it myself, well the sky's the limit - what is else is wrong wont know until opening it up. Full service history in folder in car - but it had a replacement water pump at about 60k, was it allowed to cook then. We have used some Chem-weld as a temporary measure and all seems fine. That is a very short term fix and as the motor is not going to be repaired it can't do much harm. I would not off load this car in this condition on an unsuspecting buyer - if I was to sell I would make sure they knew the problem. My mechanic's shop is Bridgestone Select in Moonah Hobart, really good use them for almost everything, except some special work on the Merc. We have discussed a second hand motor from Victoria, one business has several, below 100k about $1200, above 100k $900. Plus freight and labour. The mechanic would source this motor and fit it - but estimated quote for labour is 10 hours. Thank for the reply. Regards
Plenty of 2nd hand motors on eBay for less, if you want to chance it. Regardless if the rest of the car is in good Nick, spending $2K on decent replacement motor and fitting is still cheaper than buying another car.
Thank you and have contacted one of the dealers on Ebay, but that's a chance, be happier to pay a bit more with dealer (mechanic) support... they priced a motor off Ebay, same dealer and same price as the dealer offered me - no doubt they may get a discount (happy with that) they can discuss with the seller what is what with the motor... The car is not my main transport, but would like it working properly. Appreciate your input - thanks and regards
Fair enough, and glad you are going to stick with the 147. All the best.
Make sure any replacement motor is not a mutt, I have been caught this way - bought an advertised low mileage car (stat write-off) which - upon dismantling - had clearly chucked a belt sometime and the engine was a hotch-potch of different age parts. Someone with more knowledge of engine numbers can probably advise of what numerical ranges fall into the oil burner category too.
Ten hours estimate sounds pretty reasonable for an "all marques" workshop, hopefully they have a set of Ribe bits. I'm sure some people can do it a bit faster but you'd possibly pay a higher wage too. Would be ideal to scope the clutch and slave cylinder for remaining lifespan while things are in motion.
Only "gotcha" I found with the TS motors was needing to preload the engine before tightening the lateral mounts, else it canted back towards the firewall excessively.
Re 147T overheating - a cracked head was diagnosed as the overheating problem, a reputable Hobart workshop, Bridgestone select are working with me to source a good second hand motor. Looks like we have been successful obtaining one. BS are making sure all is good there. In the interim we have place ChemWeld in my motor, all symptoms of overheating have gone, no loss of water, no exhaust steam, no water in oil etc - we know this is only temporary. However one very strange thing is happening, the car goes several days without an issue, but all of a sudden it will seem to use excess amounts of petrol, even when just sitting idling in my yard. Today I watched the petrol gauge drop about a quarter of a tank in 15 minutes when idling. Extreme cold start, engine went to normal temp within that 15 minutes - no rough idle, no petrol smells around the engine, no exhaust petrol smells and cannot detect leaks. Anyone with any ideas as am I missing something here, why this is happening? Thanks appreciate any input. Regards
Hi Richard
Is it definitely chewing up petrol as described or could it be a faulty gauge or sending unit?? Maybe worth a look at electric fuel pump located under the back seat for problem as the sending unit is incorporated as part of the fuel pump. There a several checks that can be carried out to isolate the problem with either the gauge or sending unit which have been raised previously on this forum at the following link.
http://www.alfaclubvic.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=17157.msg98243#msg98243
cheers
bonno
I'd be looking at the sender unit for that, definitely. The sender lockring is not very unusual, I'm confident the workshop should have a suitable tool.
Recently had to replace electric fuel pump on my 156 JTS and was quite a simple job. The lock ring can be unscrewed using a piece of timber and hammer. If the sender unit is faulty, which more than likely it is, then you will need to replace the entire electric pump. I purchased mine thru e-bay at a modest price of under $300. One very important note if you plan on undertaking this work is to DISCONNECT the battery, as any electrical spark will result in catastrophic consequences.
Hi Bonno - Appreciate your reply, it is chewing up petrol extremely quick, but also now suspect you are correct could be a fault in gauge or sender unit. At the moment wont be touching anything as they vehicle has a cracked head - my mechanic as a temporary measure has tried Chemi-weld, at my request. The vehicle has down over 2000 klms since adding this. No loss of water or any other indication of problem (I know this is not a permanent solution). This car is not my main drive so I will hold out as long as possible without expensive repairs. I appreciate all offers of advice and assistance from this forum, now knowing my problems are not unique. This is my first Alfa and it wont be my last. Thanks again Richard-Lee
I will just correct some incorrect information that has been posted here.
The sender unit itself is very small and clips onto the body of the main pump. It can be replaced without replacing the entire pump.
However, you don't seem to be able to buy one on it's own. I would suggest try a wreckers they may have a pump which is broken but the sender is fine so they might sell separately.
Mick.
As an add to micks comments, don't try to fix the sender unit itself, if you can get it working again it will ALWAYS fail again soon after.
Baz
Bazz,
What do you reckon actually fails permanently after a tickle-up on the senders? Not being argumentative, genuinely curious!
The sender is nothing more than a copper wiper arm running across carbon tracks. They fail due to the carbon track wearing through or the wiper arm losing tension. Once the arm loses tension, you can re tweak it, but it always fails again soon after.
Gotcha.
I've sometimes kinked the wiping contact so it doesn't inscribe on the original arc, but is a mil or so inboard.
The tickled-up 147 sender was a complete failure. I'd reprofiled the wiper pads, lightly cleaned the resistive track, it read 50km greater range when reassembled but then ran out in the Bunnies car park showing over half a tank left. My dearest person was quite forgiving of my unsuccessful efforts, consoling themselves with a brace of sausage sangers from the fundraiser barbie while waiting for the RAC to arrive.
Have found "just sender" Bosch units from cars245 new on Fleabay but they're still modestly dear. Part numbers 1 582 980 041 and 1 582 980 076. However, at 207K, I'm thinking a whole new OEM unit could be good buying.
Quote from: Citroënbender on July 27, 2017, 07:53:16 PM
The tickled-up 147 sender was a complete failure.
Ahem !
I COULD say I told you so . . . . but that could be considered somewhat self serving . . . . so I won't.
(http://orig11.deviantart.net/4a11/f/2010/156/3/0/facepalm_by_rolzor.gif)
;D
You did say so; there's no point me pretending you didn't. 😛
By contrast the two (VDO) Peugeot units I've "serviced" both still work reliably.
Hopefully our cobber down south is making headway on his engine swap.
Cracked head, as opposed to just a head gasket failure.. How unusual, where did it crack?
Quote from: Richard-Lee on July 15, 2017, 10:33:44 AM
...The vehicle has down over 2000 klms since adding this. No loss of water or any other indication of problem (I know this is not a permanent solution). This car is not my main drive so I will hold out as long as possible without expensive repairs.
How is it travelling now, in light of the Chemi-Weld repair?
Hi - have just done a 100k run in the car - still using Chemi-Weld, no sign of overheating or water loss at all, however water is very dirty. The mechanics said to leave this alone for the time being. We may try a second lot of Chemi-Weld when and if the first lots fails, mechanic assures me it is not a permanent fix, which I understand. Engine was due for an oil change two days ago, for the small cost (apart from the oil price) this was done. The old oil showed no signs of any major issues. Hoping an oil change may prolong the inevitable... The car does not do a high mileage as it is used infrequently, but I do love this type of Alfa and the bodywork and interior is almost showroom condition.
Should I decide to sell the car somewhere soon, it will be running well and the new owners will be told what is wrong - even though the selling price will be less, I would be personally more happy if they were aware of any issues. We keep posting any developments.
Glad it's hanging in there. Not a common car on the island; I only knew of two in Launceston, so there's probably less than twenty in the whole state...
Hi there, have only seen a handful of these myself, there is a red one for sale in Moonah and have seen two other black ones. They get admired wherever they go. I will keep trying the Chemi-weld as long as the mechanics (Bridgestone Select in Moonah) suggest. So far so good, took it for a long drive last weekend, but eyes stray to temp guage constantly. If the worst happens while travelling the RACT will come to the rescue. We cannot explain why the engine water is so dirty, but they don't want to flush this at this stage. The bodywork is also showroom condition, the interior (red leather) not a mark on it and the engine and engine bay, you could eat your meals off these. Apart from high fuel usage (?) this model is a dream.