Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Technical => 900 Series (Alfasud, Alfasud Sprint, 33) => Topic started by: riargs on December 06, 2016, 06:49:28 PM

Title: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: riargs on December 06, 2016, 06:49:28 PM
Hello Gentlemen!

I am an Alfasud "Orphan" up in the USA, and would like to ask you great Sud guys Down Under in Oz a few obvious questions - I hope you will excuse me in advance for not living in Oz, okay?

Alfa never imported the Alfasud to the USA, so very few of them ever made their way to these shores. There are probably 5 to 10 'Suds total up here in the USA, and that number may be a little high in the end...

Be that as it may, I came across a nifty 1978 Alfasud Giardinetta that was privately imported here about 5 years ago, and 3 years ago the owner had given up on it (he had literally low to no mechanical skills, and couldn't figure out how to even drain the oil out of the oil pan, nevermind cleaning the incredibly sludge clogged fuel system) and he put it up for sale.

I've pretty much had every possible Postwar Alfa in my life before - 1900's, cast iron 2000's, 2600's, every possible Giulietta and Giulia and even some Alfettas and a GTV6 - but I have never had the pleasure of owning a boxer engined Alfasud.

To make a long story short, when the previous owner put this nifty Giardinetta wagon up for sale I decided it was time to learn more about the glorious Alfa Marque so I bought it - hoping for a learning experience and a worthwhile Alfa challenge.

Challenge I certainly got - whilst this car has had an obscene amount of cash thrown at the body and paintwork absolutely nothing was done to it's tired, worn out and rusted mechanicals dating from it's original build in 1978 in Italy.

Thank God for the internet - it has taken 3 years of searching every night and day for NOS parts, but I am pretty much done searching for parts now and everything mechanical - and I do mean everything - is now replaced with NOS parts.

I am getting ready to fire up the NOS 1.5 liter 105 "84" code boxer engine I sourced in Germany, and was wondering what sort of engine oil and viscosity you guys would recommend for this motor?

Also, I am a big fan of NGK spark plugs in typical Alfa Nord 4 cylinder and Busso V6 engines - the best plug for a Giulietta or Giulia 1300 or 1600 engine is the NGK BP6ES in my opinion - and I'm wondering if you guys can recommend a good NGK plug for the Alfasud engine. I've never liked the Lodge HL or 2HL plugs in the Alfanord inline 4 cylinder engines, and I'm thinking you Folks have probably figured out a better plug for the boxer engines then the Lodge 25HL's?

I will try to attach some pics of my Giardinetta - along with my 1967 Giulia Super Carrozzeria Colli Promiscua wagon when I photographed both cars together(http://) (2 Alfa wagons side-by-side, pretty nifty, eh?).

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration Gentlemen, and I hope I haven't offended you all by not being "In Country" in Oz - it's just that the Alfa Bulletin Board is not my cup of tea (too many "newbies" and "know nothings" on there to make it worthwhile), and other forums based on boxer engined Alfas are generally not in English...

Thanks Again!
Dave

Alfasud Wagon #3.JPG
Alfasud Wagon #4.JPG
Alfasud Wagon #5.JPG
Alfasud Wagon #7.JPG
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: lombardi on December 07, 2016, 08:14:23 AM
Hi Sir TrumpAlfa , Signor Americano ,  Spark plugs where the Golden Lodge type , dont know if you can stiil find them , on oils they used amongst others Agip synt 2000 , that also unaware of availability , sorry not much help really but i am sure you can find suitable alternatives ,

HBLT i believe was code for golden lodge plugs-candela , company was spica

Agip was 10-40 grade semi synth , synth base.

God bless America
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: Ray Pignataro on December 07, 2016, 07:29:41 PM
Sparkpugs in Ngk are b5 b6 or b7 if you are running around town  b5/6 will be fine don't use bp designated plugs
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: riargs on December 08, 2016, 03:57:23 AM
Thanks for the help Guys!

So, for engine oil Folks seem to use 10W-40W and for spark plugs the NGK B6ES with the "P" Projector tip seem to be the way to go?

I am probably a serious Luddite, but I've never used synthetic engine oil in my Alfas, but then I only have Giuliettas and Giulias and now this one new (to me) 1978 Alfasud...I've pretty much used Valvoline 20-50W racing oil in my Alfanord 4 cylinder  cars - which has served me well for decades on street and track.

Interesting that the NGK non-projector tip B6ES - essentially a motorcycle engine plug -  is recommended for the Sud flat four. The best plug I've ever found for the Alfanord engines has to be the NGK BP6ES - the projector tip version of the B6. In decades of use they've been the best all around plug - they never foul no matter how weak your pistons oil control rings are or your valve seals that may be letting a bit too much oil into the combustion chamber.

I did source a new old stock set of Lodge 25HL plugs for this engine, at ridiculous cost, but now that I've been told the NGK's are a go I think I'll get a set of those and run them in the Giardinetta.

Thanks for all the help Guys - you are THE BEST!

Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: philpot on December 08, 2016, 03:56:54 PM
NGK Australia recommend B7ES in their online catalogue. I've used them and they're fine. Any high quality 20w50 engine oil will be fine for a temperate to hot climate. If you're happy with the Valvoline Racing 20w50 in your nords, it's more than fine for a boxer. I too in 32 years of running suds/33's have always used a high quality mineral oil, in this case Penrite HPR30. This was also the running in oil the re-builders put in ... I always found 10w40 a bit to 'thin' for the aussie climate. If your Sud often encounters sub zero operating temps then it may be ok ... It is the go for later models with hydraulic valve adjustment though ...
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: riargs on December 12, 2016, 11:20:34 AM
Thanks again for the help Gentlemen!

I do have a 1995 1.5 liter 105HP code "84" engine in the car with the hydraulic valve lifters, so I guess I will use the slightly thinner 10W-40W multi-viscosity engine oil instead of my usual Alfanord inline 4 cylinder engines Valvoline 20W-50W racing oil. Thanks for the advice on that...

Anybody have a recommendation of NGK B6ES sparkplugs over B7ES plugs? I have both types, and have found the 6 series plugs better in my Alfanord inline 4 cylinder engines, but if you guys recommend using the 7's then that's what I will do in the end.

For the record, the engine I have for this car was NOS in a factory crate less then 2,000 miles ago, as was the transaxle.

Don't know yet what I'm going to do about transaxle oil - any recommendations?

Thanks again Guys!
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: riargs on December 12, 2016, 11:21:33 AM
Hey guys, how to you attach and post pics to this Board?

I haven't been able to figure it out yet...
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: poohbah on December 12, 2016, 12:01:51 PM
Click on the "Attachments and other options"  box below the text/comment box, click on choose file (select the file from wherever you have saved it), then click on post. Just be aware you may have to make a smaller copy of your jpg in order for it to work - there is a limit of 4 pics per post up to a cumulative total of 1024kb, so most phone pics are too big in unedited form.
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: philpot on December 13, 2016, 04:09:11 PM
Hi Dave & All,

Sorry, BP6ES is the correct plug, IF i've got the model/engine series no. right.  Thought you had an '80's, valve-shim-adjusted, carby Sud/33 Series One. Gear Oil? 80W90.   Oh, please do use an oil filter with anti-syphon and anti flowback valves. ie.RYCO Z421/Clean Filter DO1809. Otherwise, it takes two to three times longer as in one without; ie.RYCO Z89A, for the valve clearances to adjust up. The sound is not nice ... and certainly not good for cam/followers longevity ...

Cheers, Phil

http://www.clean.it/en/catalogo/?Codice=DO1809&TypeSearch=codice&op=save&lang=en

https://www.ngk.de/nc/en/product-finder/produktfinder/PKW/ZK_BENZINER/ALFA%20ROMEO/%2033/BP6ES/153/

http://www.datateck.com.au/Lube/PenriteAus/

http://www.rycofilters.com.au/catalogue/application/index/vehicle-type//make/ALFA+ROMEO/model/33/series

Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: poohbah on December 13, 2016, 07:48:18 PM
Hey, riargs, thought you'd be interested that this has just popped up for sale in our national capital. Obviously, a later 33 rather than a Sud wagon, but they are certainly rare!

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Alfa-Romeo-Alfa-33-1985/SSE-AD-4411258/?Cr=0 (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Alfa-Romeo-Alfa-33-1985/SSE-AD-4411258/?Cr=0)

Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: riargs on December 14, 2016, 04:34:56 AM
That's a very nifty Alfa 33 wagon!

You guys are certainly very lucky in Oz...Alfa sold every model they made down there and they never left your country. They left the USA and stopped selling all their cars here in 1995, and it took them an entire generation (20 years) before they returned here in 2015 and started selling the delightful but tiny 4C here last year!

I would love to have been able to buy a Nuova Spider or GTV or a Brera up here in the USA when they were available, not mention the mold breaking outstanding 156!

Alas, they left us Alfa Orphans here for a generation!
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: riargs on December 14, 2016, 07:26:47 AM
Let's see if I figured out how to de-rez my digital camera enough to make small format pics of some stuff here...

I managed to find a guy in Deutschland with a case of original Alfa orange oil filters which I got, and I put one on the new 1.5 liter engine...are the Factory oil filters anti-drain back and anti-siphon, or should I buy one of those other ones you Folks are recommending?
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: poohbah on December 14, 2016, 12:12:06 PM
Nice work riargs - now you can keep us pictorially informed of your Giardinetta's progress.

Actually we did miss out on one period in early-mid 90s - no 155s or 145s were sold here - but Alfa came back with a bang in late 90s with the 156 (I'm onto my second).

Look forward to seeing more pics.

Best of luck
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: riargs on December 14, 2016, 12:52:46 PM
Yay!

Now we have picture capability...er, or at least I have figured out how to add them to posts...

Man, I really envy you guys getting to buy 156's in Oz - if Alfa had brought them to the USA they would have sold a ton of them!

So, are the Factory Oil Filters anti-drain and anti-siphon? Anybody know?
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: Steve S on December 14, 2016, 11:27:10 PM
Alfas of that era ran on 50 grade engine oil, either 20w50 mineral or 10w50 synthetic.

In the USA I would use a known brand or high performance 20w50 or look at a synthetic if you're in a cold climate.
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: philpot on December 15, 2016, 12:32:11 PM
Hey Dave, is this the 1995 engine you have in your Sud?

http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi?COUNTRY=012&GRP_COD=100&SBMK=R&DRIVE=D&SGS_COD=0&MAKE=R&COMM_MODEL=145&CAT_COD=U1&MOD_COD=130&SGRP_COD=0&ALL_FIG=0&LANGUAGE=3&PREVIOUS_KEY=SUBGROUP_7&NEW_HTTP=TRUE&ALL_LIST_PART=0&SB_CODE=-1&KEY=PARTDRAWDATA&PRINT_MODE=0&EPER_CAT=SP&GUI_LANG=3&WINDOW_ID=1

Its the only 1995 boxer motor, '84' code engine number I found: 1994-1996, OE 145, M1, 1.3ie , 8V, 'uncomplete engine' ??

Please correct me if I am wrong, part numbers can change or be superceded ...  Check around the Fiat ePer site, it's always interesting!

What were you told the oil filters were when you bought the case?   Alfasud filters (70's/80's) ? Alfa 33 filters (80's/90's) ??  or  Alfa 145 filters (90's) ??


Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: riargs on December 15, 2016, 06:49:44 PM
Hey Buddy, Thanks for the reply!

Yes, that is the engine I have!

It had a black Mahle oil filter on it when I got it, which I replaced with the orange Alfa filter. The guy in Germany that had the case of filters said they were for his 1982 Alfasud, he sold the car years ago and forgot he had the case of filters in his garage, so he put them on fleabay and I snatched them up...

What do you think? Are they good to go? Or should I get some newer filters?

Thanks again Pal...if you have a chance please have a look at my other post about wiring an electric fuel pump for this car - for some reason not a single person has responded to my query...

Looking forward to chatting more with you guys about these wonderful cars!
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: Gus M on January 17, 2021, 11:30:03 AM
Hey guys, what is the oil filter to buy for the 1.5 ti motor?
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: bonno on January 17, 2021, 05:28:56 PM
Check out the following Supercheap website for the correct Oil filter applicable for your Alfa Romeo Sud. Just need to use the vehicle identifier "My Garage" functionality and just enter the details Make, Model & Series.  This functionality can also be used for the correct spark plugs and other serviceability items available for your car.
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/shop-by-category/oils-fluids-and-filters/filters/oil-filters?vid=FmdyMtyszKrUxHRcZLyiTQ%3D%3D
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: POC on January 18, 2021, 09:19:37 PM
Gus, you can still find OEM filters for the Boxer engine but they are no longer orange. Fiat Group supply filters that are identical to the original Alfa filters and fit various Italian cars.

I never liked the aftermarket filters as they are a generic size and bigger than the Alfa oil filters and hence capture more oil.

The Italian Job in Melbourne has the oil filters.

Cheers
Paul
Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: philpot on January 19, 2021, 12:45:32 PM
Hi Gus,

Domenic or Robert @ Italian Automotive Spares can assist with all your requirements. Their knowledge and parts base is immense. Club sponsors and supporters also. I use the same Clean Filter, Engineered and Made in Italy,  in my 1.5 33 QV and my 16V QV's. Price wise they are far more reasonable than other alternatives too.
 
https://www.italianautomotivespares.com.au

http://www.clean.it/en/catalogo/?Veicolo=1&ID_Marca=ALFA+ROMEO&ID_Modello=33+%28905_%29&ID_Tipo=1.5+%28905.A2%29&TypeSearch=applicazione&op=save&lang=en

The exact same filter is also used for the Lancia Delta Integrale 16V so I think they are more than up to the job.

As for oils see:

https://www.penriteoil.com.au/product-selector?spec-finder#/recommendations.

Cheers, Phil







Title: Re: Alfasud Boxer 1.5 Liter Engine Oil & Spark Plug Recommendations?
Post by: POC on January 19, 2021, 09:17:42 PM
Phil, do Italian Auto Spares stock any factory NOS parts for old Alfas?

Have used Penrite HPR30 and now HPR10 in the Sud for almost 30 years now - great oil.

Cheers
Paul