Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Technical => 939 Series (159, Brera and Brera Spider) => Topic started by: fgv on December 05, 2016, 08:13:36 PM

Title: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 05, 2016, 08:13:36 PM
hi everyone!

this year i've been just about ready to get the car i've wanted in a long time, the alfa 159. then i realized i wasn't sure whether the spec i'm looking for is actually available in australia.. which made me wonder whether i was waiting for something that wasn't produced.
ideally i would like a recent year production (2011-2012), all-wheel-drive 3.2 manual transmission, with low mileage (less than 50k km if possible).  i actually would prefer a more basic trim (non-Ti), but i'm not sure if all the 2012 v6s were automatic/Ti. would anyone be able to confirm that what i'm looking for actually exists . i've been looking on carsales for a while and it never shows up, or perhaps people aren't selling.

and if anyone has one of the above in white or red, i would be interested if you are thinking of selling! =)
thank you in advance for any replies.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: SusSelesp on December 05, 2016, 11:34:45 PM
This ones pretty amazing but priced accordingly and an auto...in NSW

This one! (https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Alfa-Romeo-159-2011/SSE-AD-4427847)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on December 06, 2016, 09:51:35 AM
What you want exists in Ti form.  A red V6 AWD manual sedan with low km was on the market about a year ago for a very reasonable price (sorry!).  I remember it because if I didn't own the 1750 I would have bought it.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on December 06, 2016, 03:11:18 PM
I looked at two red 159 3.2's a little over a year ago.

The first one - at a dealer in Port Melbourne very close to work and was advertised as a Ti Q4 - just what I wanted.  On close inspection it lacked a tail shaft, diff and rear drive shafts!!!  When I quizzed the car rat re the false advertising and misrepresentation he went VERY quiet.

The second red 159 3.2 did have a tail shaft, rear diff and drive shafts.  And a Q4 badge on the boot, however it was not a Ti, although it was advertised as one!!

I purchased my "genuine" 2009 3.2 manual Q4 Ti from Zagames in Richmond soon after the above experiences.  I asked they call me if any owner of a manual 159 V6 Q4 Ti was looking to sell.  Robert was very helpful.  I wanted red but settled for black.  I understand series II 159's in the spec I wanted were only available in white, black and silver. 
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on December 06, 2016, 03:48:37 PM
its not red or white, and it is a sportwagon but just spotted this Q4 Ti on carsales.
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Alfa-Romeo-159-2009/SSE-AD-4115999/?Cr=1 (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Alfa-Romeo-159-2009/SSE-AD-4115999/?Cr=1)

Looks like there are also a couple of Q4 sedans for sale - but all around the 08/09 MY.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 07, 2016, 12:17:21 AM
thanks for the the thoughts, guys..

ALCMQ - that IS pretty amazing! that's almost in new condition.. having driven a manual all my life though, i find driving an automatic a weird experience; just can't get used to it! otherwise would get this car, this week!

kaleuclint - nice to know! how do you feel after owning the 1750 version instead? by many accounts it seems like as good an option?

Colin Edwards - in general, is it worth having a look around at the dealers, or not much chance of finding anything vs online? that's quite dodgy that they did that.. good thing you knew exactly what you were looking for.

poohbah - it does seem like a lot of v6s are pre 2010..

i wonder if i should broaden my options to the 1.75 version.. there is one that looks in fantastic condition on carsales that seems like an attractive one to get.
part of the my thoughts about getting the 3.2 is that having a more powerful engine might have more longevity in the long run rather than a turbo; but i don't know if that logic is correct or even makes any sense at all. i also have driven friend's (non-alfa) AWDs and have liked them. but it also seems people speak well of the 1.75 engine.
is there a consensus in terms of long-term reliability between the two versions? i intend to keep the car for as long as possible, like i have with my current car.
and is there a reason there are so few white 159s?
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on December 07, 2016, 11:37:22 AM
The 1750 handles nearly as good as the 3.2 Q4 Ti, however the V6 can be a tad thirsty - its a heavier car.  The Q4 has better weight distribution however you pay for it at the petrol pump!

The missus purchased a 2015 Giulietta QV at Zagames last year.  While we were there I asked them to look out for a "good" 159 3.2 Q4 Ti manual.  It took 4 - 5 months but I ended up with the black beast!  Very few Alfa dealers stock much in the way of used Alfas.  However I believe Zagames will be opening a pre-owned department shortly.  Looking online will reveal a number of cars however many are not what they are cracked up to be unless you find a car from an active AROCA member.

I believe the production of V6 Q4's stopped around 2010 < 2011.  After that all 3.2's were FWD.

The JTS V6 is a torquey engine that doesn't need to rev to provide average performance.  It will however very happily spin to 7K in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear! 
All JTS engines and turbos need oil changes around every 10K.  The 3.2 JTS also needs new plugs every 35K < 45K.  No way they last the 80K as suggesting in the owners manual!! 







Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 07, 2016, 03:49:38 PM
Colin - that's great info.
do you think the FWD V6's end up handling similar to the 1750s because of the weight distribution being more at the front end? and therefore do you think the ideal setup would be to get the AWD 2010 version?

i'm not worried about fuel economy, and i'm not really a fast drive either. but i really appreciate a good ride and comfort; my guess is that any version of the 159 will have enough weight. what you mentioned about not needing to rev for it to go - is really what i'm looking for in a car; easy power without pushing it!
so if you were to do it again in 2017.. how would you order your preferences in picking out a version of the 159?

i'll make sure i do those changes at regular intervals! =)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on December 07, 2016, 03:50:56 PM
QuoteI believe the production of V6 Q4's stopped around 2010 < 2011.  After that all 3.2's were FWD.

Well that would explain why there are mostly 08/09 V6 Q4s advertised then!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on December 07, 2016, 10:30:32 PM
Hi FGV,
Any measure that contributes towards 50:50 weight distribution is a good thing.  If you're not concerned about fuel economy then I guess a V6 AWD / Q4 is probably the way to go. 
The manual V6 Q4 Ti may be a rare beast.  However funnily enough I drove beside one tonight!  Not sure what year though.  This had a "Q4" badge on the rear whereas mine does not.  The cars built in 2008 and later are about 50kg lighter than the pre 2008 159's.  Maybe the badge was omitted in 2008 to save a bit of weight!?!

If I were to do it all again I wouldnt change a thing.  The manual gearbox was a pig when cold until I changed the oil to Penrite Pro Gear GL-5 75w-85.  The 159 is my daily drive and I somtimes wish it was an auto.  But on the weekends..................never!!!!   Another 50kg lighter in the front and a TCT would be perfect.
If you cant get a Ti you can at least turn it into a Ti from a suspension point of view with springs and a set of Koni Yellow Sport dampers.  Had the Konis fitted last week and they have transformed the car. 
Colin
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 07, 2016, 11:51:36 PM
halo Colin!
haha, that is funny! i've seen that weight reduction mentioned before, and seems to also match the specifications on sites like honest john etc. apparently they used some lighter components?

happy to hear you liked your choice; its very satisfying to want what you have =)
sorry i wasn't clear in my original post; i would actually quite like a non-Ti, just so could have smaller wheels (17 or 18 inch). but its not a big deal either way.

there is one 2010 v6 manual on carsales at the moment - black in colour. do you think that is kind of the spec you mentioned? it says its AWD on the specs but i suppose anyone can list anything, just as your story about the car dealer.
i wonder if next year a number of v6 awd's will emerge into the market? haha
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on December 09, 2016, 12:14:40 PM
G'day fgv,

The one on CarSales in ACT looks ok. Probably one of the last V6 Q4's to be made if the MY 2010 is accurate.
If I did not have mine I'd possibly be heading north up the Hume this very moment!
Only one way to find out for sure.....................................!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Brera Tas on December 09, 2016, 01:22:51 PM
Hi everyone just thought I would mention this, I own an Alfa Brera JTS 3.2 Q4 and have just completely rebuilt the Alloytec V6 engine my stumbling block are the Bosch injectors, I need to find 4 -6 new ones and at $750 each from Alfa they are very expensive. We have cross referenced them to a GM number but apparently they are no longer available. Any suggestions?   
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on December 09, 2016, 02:43:53 PM
Apparently Zagame in Richmond can source the Bosch(?) $400 equivalent. 
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 13, 2016, 01:09:05 AM
Brera Tas - that sounds like an exciting project, but any reason it needed to be rebuilt already? also how much did you set aside for a budget for this reconditioning, and how would you say its going?

Colin Edwards - i like your enthusiasm for the v6! haha! i think i might have to go for the newer 1.75 thought, after all that.. as i think after 6+ years it will be quite hard to find something relatively new.. at least the 1.75 had a 2012 production run. and its pretty hard to find a manual car.. it seems less than a third of modern cars are in manual
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on December 13, 2016, 02:53:40 PM
With OPEC about to put the squeeze on crude production, the 1750 would be the way to go.  However they do seem to be a rare beast.  Their rarity and lack of thirst could push the price up a tad!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on December 13, 2016, 03:25:06 PM
fgv, I completely understand that you prefer something relatively new, which would seem to rule out the V6. But I was wondering if there is any reason you wouldn't consider a low-mileage V6 159? One could argue an 8yo car with under 70,000k may be in better nick than a well-used 2-3yo car (assuming both have been maintained properly).

I've never owned an Alfa with the GM-derived 3.2 V6, but as a committed past and present owner/lover of a magnificent Busso V6-powered Alfa (best sound of any engine with less than 8 cylinders), I can only say six is better than four!

Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 13, 2016, 07:16:12 PM
Colin - so both pretty rare in reality, so i guess i can't be too picky =p

halo poohbah - any relation to pooh bear? haha j/k . i wouldn't mind either - it just doesn't seem like i have many options; there's lots of automatics, older 4/5 cylinders, and ones with high mileage out there. i guess it makes sense that an enthusiast who likes their car and looks after it very well, probably isn't looking to sell anytime soon!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on December 13, 2016, 07:38:43 PM
Best of luck with the hunt, FGV. They are all good choices, as long as they've been looked after.

Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 15, 2016, 12:12:48 AM
thank you poohbah, i guess the process of looking out for one is also fun, so i'll enjoy it while waiting =)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on December 15, 2016, 11:34:57 AM
1750 also some 277kg lighter.  Has the torque of the V6.  Also has the thirst of the V6 I suspect.

Possible o/seas relocation means I might sell mine.  I'll think about it...
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 16, 2016, 02:26:36 PM
kaleuclint - that is quite significant when i come to think of it; like carrying 3 adults as passengers.

random question: do most alfa users here fill up with 95 or 98 petrol? does it make a difference for these cars?
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on December 16, 2016, 11:23:21 PM
Always use 98 in my cars.  The 1750 prefers BP Ultimate according to many online correspondents (not to assume it's the same stuff worldwide anyway); I use that or V-Power -- nothing else.

That weight difference seems very high so I checked another source; 135kg is probably the correct figure.  So two slim fit wearers or one rather burly fellow...
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 18, 2016, 12:46:06 AM
i suppose it is somewhat a 'performance vehicle' that benefits the higher octane.

still is a fair amount of weight.. and yes, that does sound like a burly dude.. haha =p
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on December 18, 2016, 10:06:57 AM
A lot of that additional 35kg will be due to the tailshaft / rear diff / rear drive shafts of the Q4 system.  Although the extra mass is a pill, having more over the rear wheels helps the handling a tad. 
I usually run the tires at 43 psi front / 41 psi rear.  Those pressures and close to zero toe and less negative camber at the front reduces tire wear and helps fuel consumption. 
I find running 98 improves economy about 5% - but costs 10% more!!!  Still do it anyway.  The V6 can can be thirsty however the pain can be minimised.  A litre of Liquid Moly injector cleaner every 5k can't hurt.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 19, 2016, 12:35:53 AM
that makes sense Colin. i'm sure it feels pretty balanced the way they did it.
how do your tyre pressures compare to the 'recommended' pressures? im not familiar with what they should be for cars that size / weight - as my car is a lot smaller / lighter.
also, how much effort is it to get the minimal toe-in - is it a matter of asking an alfa specialized mechanic to do it; it seems the tyre-wear if this isn't done, is a common issue.
so the car actually runs ok on 95 yes? i guess it's important to know because on long drives - not every town has 98 at their stations. if its even slightly 'healthier' for the car in the long run, i'm sure its worth it (not sure if it does have long term effects though)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on December 19, 2016, 06:41:34 PM
Hi FGV,
The recommended tyre pressures are about 20% less than what I run.  Anything over 45 psi (cold) tends to make the ride very harsh.

Its pretty straight forward to adjust for minimal static toe.  Just need to take the car to someone with an accurate alignment jig that knows how to use it and is prepared to spend the time needed.  I took the 159 to Mauceri Motors in Clayton.  Problem with the 159 and most cars for that matter is the amount of toe alteration during acceleration and braking.  The lower control arm bushes flex a bit and cause the base of the front hubs to move for and aft.  This causes the toe setting to move about.  its not so bad on the Q4 as most of the drive is via the rear wheels, however under heavy braking its not so great!  I fitted polyurethane bushes throughout the front end to reduce the amount of dynamic toe change. 

The V6 runs quite ok on 95 - only use it if 98 is not available or I'm a bit light on for funds!





 
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on December 19, 2016, 08:12:23 PM
Quote from: kaleuclint on December 15, 2016, 11:34:57 AM
1750 also some 277kg lighter.  Has the torque of the V6.  Also has the thirst of the V6 I suspect.

Possible o/seas relocation means I might sell mine.  I'll think about it...

Work?
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 22, 2016, 01:28:13 AM
thanks for all the info Colin; i'm sure i'll need more of your advice if i finally do get the 159 =)

by the way, do you tend to do your services at the place you mentioned in clayton? or the alfa place in malvern? do they specialize in different areas or are both generally good for all things alfa romeo? both are close to where i live so easy to to get to.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on December 22, 2016, 05:51:42 PM
Hi fgv,
Each establishment has its strengths.  I guess it comes down to what you want.  Both are active club members and know their stuff.  The same can be said for all those who advertise in the club mag or on the website.  I support them because they support us!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on December 25, 2016, 12:43:33 PM
Quote from: As the day goes on December 19, 2016, 08:12:23 PM
Quote from: kaleuclint on December 15, 2016, 11:34:57 AM
1750 also some 277kg lighter.  Has the torque of the V6.  Also has the thirst of the V6 I suspect.

Possible o/seas relocation means I might sell mine.  I'll think about it...

Work?

Yes work; not much available in Australia and my reputation and profile are very much in Europe.  Still wondering whether to store the 159.  Might be more sensible to buy a RHD Giulia or Ghibli in Europe and bring it back eventually as a personal import.

Don't assume the 1750 is some kind of 'economy' engine people; it definitely isn't.  Would have made far more sense for the TBi to have been 2.0-2.2 litres with a bigger turbo.  Seems the Giulia has sorted that.

Those weight figures, thinking the 135kg is the FWD V6 and the 277kg might be the Q4?

Can't say I use U98 as a performance fuel.  My Mercedes gets Ultimate / V-Power too and it has U95 as recommended from memory, and my Saab can use U91 (though they can use anything really).  My BMW bikes (2 valve heads converted to lead free) also run U98.  Hopefully improved mileage offsets the extra cost. I have no idea if 'premium' fuel has better detergent qualities that lower octane.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 27, 2016, 04:04:52 PM
Colin - that's good to know that we have some reliable places to look after alfas.. and not even having to travel far within melbourne too.

kaleuclint - are you set on getting a giulia? what are your initial impressions from the reviews / specs etc?
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Thijsvr on December 28, 2016, 11:12:58 PM
You should be able to find a V6 Q4 manual sedan. I've seen quite a couple show up over the past few months, both in TI and non-TI. A manual wagon is harder to find.

You can setup a saved search on www.carsales.com.au and have it automatically notify you about new cars that match your search criteria. I have that for a manual SW V6 Q4 TI. Unable to tell you if the notification system actually works, because none have shown up so far ;)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on December 29, 2016, 12:58:42 PM
I haven't driven a Giulia fgv (and wasn't invited to the launch function in Melbourne, and devoid of recent trips to Europe haven't seen one in the metal) so I'm reliant on the reviews of others.  It's obviously a great improvement over the 159 and RWD, and I suspect there's much to like.  But it'll need to be the equivalent of the Ti and have a sunroof!  From online images I'm not sure I like the interior, but everyone else seems to.

A big issue for me is the transmission.  My Alfas have always been manuals.  Maybe this is the car for the inevitable switch to auto?  The other big issue for me is ... the Maserati Ghibli!!  I might just step up to that instead if auto trans is the go.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Craig_m67 on December 29, 2016, 01:00:11 PM
I don't think Australia brought in a Q4 Manual Sportwagon in Ti Spec.
The model exists but they're all just high line or whatever ePer has for "everything", not branded Ti.

I saw a blue one once, should have bought it on the spot.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Thijsvr on December 30, 2016, 12:55:51 AM
Quote from: kaleuclint on December 29, 2016, 12:58:42 PM
I haven't driven a Giulia fgv (and wasn't invited to the launch function in Melbourne, and devoid of recent trips to Europe haven't seen one in the metal) so I'm reliant on the reviews of others.  It's obviously a great improvement over the 159 and RWD, and I suspect there's much to like.  But it'll need to be the equivalent of the Ti and have a sunroof!  From online images I'm not sure I like the interior, but everyone else seems to.

A big issue for me is the transmission.  My Alfas have always been manuals.  Maybe this is the car for the inevitable switch to auto?  The other big issue for me is ... the Maserati Ghibli!!  I might just step up to that instead if auto trans is the go.

I haven't driven it but I've seen it and sat in it. I still don't like the way it looks, it has the line of a 3 series and the front just is off. Not as beautiful as the 159. It's much better looking in real life than on pictures though.
The interior is really good, but very safe. I like the 159, it's weird and you have to get used to it for a bit in the beginning. The Giulia is more generic. It could easily have been a Mercedes or BMW interior. That's not a bad thing perse I guess, everything feels and looks good but there's just not that much to fall in love with. It'll sell well though. Oh and personally I think the satnav screen is too small in comparison to the entire black thing they put it in. It doesn't look right.

There is no TI spec for the Giulia (yet), they have a 'Veloce' pack that sort of is the same idea. Those are also available with manuals. At least in the Netherlands they are.

I'm sure you'll like the car. It feels more grown up than the 159.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Thijsvr on December 30, 2016, 01:01:11 AM
Quote from: Craig_m67 on December 29, 2016, 01:00:11 PM
I don't think Australia brought in a Q4 Manual Sportwagon in Ti Spec.
The model exists but they're all just high line or whatever ePer has for "everything", not branded Ti.

I saw a blue one once, should have bought it on the spot.

That's a shame. The 159 in TI spec is the best looking wagon ever made in my opninion. Guess I have to decide what to give up then. TI, Q4, SW, manual... :)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 02, 2017, 12:07:40 AM
do people get invited to these launches, kaleuclint? or do you have to register? sounds like an interesting event to go to.
its funny that we have different preferences - id prefer a front wheel drive rather than rear, and smaller wheels.. and no sun roof.. but i guess there's something for everyone, and it's the variety that makes it interesting :)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on January 02, 2017, 09:33:10 PM
The dealers certainly have a database of owners as I get offers and invitations from Zags and LDs.  You'd think FCA Australia might have a consolidated database based on what the dealers have and from warranties.

Given I bought successive 159s and am overdue for a replacement, it wouldn't take a direct marketing genius to figure I'd be a prospective Giulia buyer. 

The Levante I'm also interested in; no invitation to the launch of that either. 

What might be happening is an effort to built up the hype and profile for both vehicles.  FCA, the dealers and/or their PR agencies turn on swanky events and get the "right crowd" of supposed celebrities, bloggers, etc. along to gain exposure (I work partly in PR but not in this consumer area, thankfully).  Some of course are paid to be there, or worse still are 'brand ambassadors'.  Upshot is that the people who are actually likely to put down money and buy these cars aren't actually invited to launches.  Another reality is that they aren't targeting 159 owners or any Alfisti; they are targeting 3-series / C-class (I'm one of those anyway) / A4 owners and prospects looking to move up from their GTIs.

My advice?  Make the current owners feel special.  Invite them along.  Get a Giulia to an AROCA club night.  Organise an AROCA members only drive day.  The converted are the easier segment to market to, and the most likely to advocate for the product (accepting we will not be influencing the first time Alfa buying prospects in all probability).  Sadly distributors aren't particularly intelligent in this regard and think that handing out freebie cars to chefs / sportspeople / actors in the hope of exposure in Drive of a Saturday and as drawcards to an event is clever. 
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on January 03, 2017, 04:54:46 PM
Quote from: kaleuclint on January 02, 2017, 09:33:10 PM
no invitation to the launch of that either. 

After I saw the recent call out for Giulia's for the polo match I went to the AR website for this event and saw this:

http://www.portseapolo.com.au/gallery/

"The open-air catwalk that attracts 6000 beautiful people."

FFS!  Who thought of this shite?

I have to say I am outraged and really am wondering if I want to be associated with AR events.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on January 03, 2017, 07:22:40 PM
Quote from: kaleuclint on January 02, 2017, 09:33:10 PM

The Levante I'm also interested in; no invitation to the launch of that either. 


My, my, we DO think we're special don't we!   ;)

;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on January 04, 2017, 01:40:27 PM
Portsea Polo?  I recall that being promoted as "aspirational".  So much in fact that one Lara Bingle (remember her?) was featured in the promotion.  Yuk!!  Suspect Alfa involvement is a throwback to the Clyde Campbell era.  Cheapens the Alfa brand.

But how special am I, Baz?  I got to live at the Portsea venue  -- and got paid to do so.  Free food back then too, and the clothes were thrown in...

No, I didn't expect an invite to the Levante launch for the reasons expresseed above.  Wonder if they targeted prospective / current Maserati owners or Cayenne / X5 types?  Probably neither.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on January 04, 2017, 03:30:39 PM
Quote from: kaleuclint on January 04, 2017, 01:40:27 PM

But how special am I, Baz?  I got to live at the Portsea venue  -- and got paid to do so.  Free food back then too, and the clothes were thrown in...


My, they DO look after the "help" well don't they  . . . . . . .  ;)  (And yes, I am jealous)   ;D

And as we both know, I am very special too . . . . .but we are talking a much different form of special in this case!   ::)

Baz
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on January 04, 2017, 04:23:59 PM
What has any of this got to do with a 2012 159 3.2???

Hi FGV,

Back on topic.....................purchasing my 159 from Zagames was a result of me asking them to look out for one.  Dealers can have connections in very appropriate places!!   

The purchase of the car a bit over a year ago probably also contributed to receiving an invite to the recent Zagame show room opening and Giulia launch.  Owning a high end 159 can have the odd fringe benefit!   These 159's cost around $85K back in 2009.  Purchase one from a dealer today for around $20K and they may offer you a drive of the new Giulia?
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on January 04, 2017, 07:25:36 PM
I think the point being is that AR seems to be wanting to market itself to a certain monied demographic these days.  Forgetting that many Alfisti are middle class etc.

By all means if you are poor and want to spend $85 to go and look at the cool cats at Portsea, then all power to you.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on January 04, 2017, 08:26:21 PM
Spot on ATDG as always.  Taking on the C-segment Germans would be one of the hardest gigs in the business.  The 159 couldn't pull this off.  If the Giulia can become the darling of the beautiful people then good luck to FCA.  But -- they would do well to remember that there is (maybe) an audience of 159 owners who have been waiting a long time to buy something newer.  Also a lot of traditionalists within AROCA own a 'modern' as everyday transport.  It's a segment.

As you know Baz, there are few more special than a SCDT/OFFCDT.  Expensive to train and you can't usually replace losses in training.  I've sacked a couple; not easy.  But the day you graduate you cease being special and become a dogsbody.  And you are looking after others rather than being looked after.  A lot of people didn't get that and once out of Portsea couldn't discharge quickly enough.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 05, 2017, 02:12:43 PM
i suppose it is a lucrative market segment - and i can understand why they want to appeal to that demographic. inevitably it will alienate some of their previous customers.. but i suppose that's where they want their product placement to be. unlike many of my peers, i am not looking for a luxury executive sedan - so they obviously aren't marketing it to me! =D

Colin - that sounds like an idea, although i wonder how long it would take. on another note.. would you happen to know if there are any 159s in the darker (?rubino) red colour in australia? i really like that dark red.. but it doesn't seem popular at all, making it even harder to find a used one with that colour
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on January 05, 2017, 02:38:33 PM
Hi FGV,

One way to find out how long it would take is to give it a shot I guess.  Can't say I've ever seen a 159 in the dark red though.

With regard to marketing, FCA have to make selling Alfas in Oz a profitable exercise.  If not, history will repeat itself and the brand will disappear....again!  Given their will be at least two and possibly four model Giulia's for sale in Oz, it makes sense to heavily market the high end product to those who believe they should own one and are prepared to pay for it.  The volume sales and profitability will be with the lower spec models.  Although I'm hanging out for the RWD Giulietta, if the Giulia Veloce is priced ok for me I'd happily part with the 159!

Colin
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on January 05, 2017, 04:04:03 PM
Quote from: Colin Edwards on January 05, 2017, 02:38:33 PM
The volume sales and profitability will be with the lower spec models.  Although I'm hanging out for the RWD Giulietta, if the Giulia Veloce is priced ok for me I'd happily part with the 159!

Colin

I have to agree, and as you say, very much depending on price, with 205kw under the hood, I recon it could be something that many of the BMW noggings might be interested in switching to as well.

Now if we can only convince them come up with a decent ad campaign that excite and encourage people to go take a look at the new cars I reckon they will sell themselves. Once again. Alfa Romeo could once again be something that the general public all dream of and aspire to owning, just like it was when I was a young man. (And YES, I DO know that was a very long time ago!)

;)

Baz
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on January 05, 2017, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: fgv on January 05, 2017, 02:12:43 PM
i suppose it is a lucrative market segment - and i can understand why they want to appeal to that demographic. inevitably it will alienate some of their previous customers.. but i suppose that's where they want their product placement to be. unlike many of my peers, i am not looking for a luxury executive sedan - so they obviously aren't marketing it to me! =D

Colin - that sounds like an idea, although i wonder how long it would take. on another note.. would you happen to know if there are any 159s in the darker (?rubino) red colour in australia? i really like that dark red.. but it doesn't seem popular at all, making it even harder to find a used one with that colour

Granted AR has to have a hero car and the price is right for that, but the marketing suck. Guess I will have to wait 5 years for the QV when it drops to 25% of purchase price. 

In terms of colour, definitely have seen that red for sale on Carsales a couple of years ago. It was very Yummy
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 05, 2017, 09:56:27 PM
Colin, what would you say is reasonably priced for a Giulia?

i haven't really been following the launch, but last i read a few months ago it sits in the same price range as all the other executive compact sedans around $70-90K.. is that the case? and the quadrifoglio version was very expensive - which kind of made me not really follow it any further.

bazzbazz / as the day goes / kaleuclint - as for the campaign to get more people to look at the cars.. maybe more Lara Bingle? =p
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on January 06, 2017, 01:33:01 PM
They all look Lara Bingle to me.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on January 06, 2017, 01:44:38 PM
Nah, more like Selma Hayek to me... bulges in all the right places.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on January 06, 2017, 02:29:30 PM
Definitely no bogans like Lara!!  Catriel Menghia, Catherine Zeta Jones, Uma Thurman, Xenia, Selma Hayek -- FCA have shown how to do it well.  The Abarth campaign was superb.  Even the more modest "it's not a car" local TVC stuff left a positive impression. 

Advertising CAN propel an ordinary product into the realm of premium pricing but it's hard to sustain.  Loss-leading to get Giulias out there won't work either. 

The product appeals to the senses and the brand appeals to the emotions.  We all know it'll give away quality to the Germans, but character and differentiation can offset that.  We know they can promote it (not counting that awful polo... :P).  Apparently they are sorting out an improved dealership experience.  So spec it right and price it right, and it will sell.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on January 06, 2017, 04:15:59 PM
And what is the story that they are reducing the Alfa dealers in Melbourne to around 3?  So making them more Volvo like
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on January 06, 2017, 05:53:54 PM
Image & Perception is everything.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on January 07, 2017, 12:52:03 PM
Quote from: bazzbazz on January 06, 2017, 05:53:54 PM
Image & Perception is everything.
Oh yes!  "The perception is the reality".  Three dealers in Melbourne would be fine (we used to have this) but I'm not sure that's FCA's plan.  Collocating with every Chrysler / Jeep dealership is daft.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 09, 2017, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: As the day goes on January 06, 2017, 01:33:01 PM
They all look Lara Bingle to me.

lol! =p

anyhow, just wondering who here has driven / owned both the 3.2 and 1.75 versions?
Title: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: wturnbull on January 09, 2017, 02:47:12 PM
Curious to know what's happening here in Brisbane. There's no longer Alfa Romeo Brisbane that was part of Euromarque near the CBD. Only one Alfa dealer in suburban Mt Gravatt representing the FCA range. Euromarque will continue to service my 159 2.2JTS selespeed (2008 model with under 32,000 km and in prime condition). Had a brief look over the new Giulia in Austria in October. Here's hoping they sell well here.
To follow up, there now doesn't seem to be any Alfa dealership in Brisbane as of end March 2017.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on January 13, 2017, 10:20:25 AM
Back off topic and back on to marketing of the Giulia, see page 5 of todays Herald Sun. 
A 3/4 page spread on the "Alfa Romeo Portsea Polo".  Alfa Romeo mentioned 3 -4 times and Alpha Romeo mentioned once!!!  What happened to proof reading?
Nevertheless, high profile publicity for the brand on page 5 of Melbourne's highest selling newspaper.  The article even details "brand conscious, quality-sensitive consumers" as "Key audience characteristics".  Whatever money FCA have tipped into this event is certainly providing exposure to all and sundry.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on January 13, 2017, 05:43:25 PM
Still believe the ONLY marketing thing they have gotten right in Australia so far is sponsoring Masterchief, now when the SUV comes out they will actually have a car that can appear on the show to cart them all around.   ::)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 14, 2017, 12:32:12 AM
i think i'm reconsidering the 3.2 Q4, as long as its the slightly lighter 2009 version.. i'm just thinking that for the long term would it make more sense to have a non-turbo engine for simplicity, +/- longevity.. although i don't know if that tends to be true in reality.. anyone have any thoughts on this? (i.e if you intend to keep the car for a very long time).

i drove behind a grey 159 last weekend - and i actually think it looks really nice in this colour as well. i feel the 159 is the type of car that looks better in person than it does in photos.. i'm still impressed whenever i see them drive by!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on January 14, 2017, 12:46:41 AM
Just remember, modern Turbo cars are very different from those of past. These days the Turbo itself causes no more problems and requires no more maintenance than most other engine components. this is mainly due to the improvement in bearings and lubricants than anything else.

These are just my opinions and thoughts, others may, and are quite welcome to, disagree.

Baz
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on January 14, 2017, 03:52:45 AM
I say yes, think about the turbo. And then choose the V6. No replacement for displacement...
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on January 14, 2017, 12:23:45 PM
I used to be concerned about turbo longevity.  Without any conscious effort or selection my driveway is now occupied solely by turbopetrol cars.  No worries at all. 

Yes, Matty has shown me a stuffed turbo at Alfa Men.  So worst case, you replace one.  With religious adherence to quality engine oils (Penrite Premium 5; Mobil 1 Protection Formula) and warm up / idle down procedure I don't plan to. 

As for the polo, was planning to give Junior an L-plater treat today and let him get in some manual shifting practice taking the 159 down to Balnarring.  Then realised there will be 600 Audis full of the linen suit set heading down to Portsea.  Looking skyward I note that only one load of the wannabe aspirational types has sprung for the helicopter option.  Might have been Lindsay Fox anyway.

Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on January 14, 2017, 03:31:22 PM
Quote from: kaleuclint on January 14, 2017, 12:23:45 PM
No worries at all. 

My . . . we DO love to tempt fate . . . don't we  ;)

( yes, it's too hot to go outside and I'm bored! )
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on January 15, 2017, 07:23:11 AM
I have turbos in my diesels.  Never think about it.  No warm-up or cool-down procedures.

Maybe petrols are different?
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 15, 2017, 11:40:05 AM
so it sounds like both are reasonable options.. so will just have to wait until a well looked after one is on the market (and that the sellers don't flake).

i do wonder whether newer cars can potentially last as long.. i like how some people i know have cars that are over 20 or even 30 years old.. over 400k kms etc.. and that would be something id like to do ideally.
or maybe at this point i sound like one of those guys who go "they don't make things like they used to in the old days.." lol

on another note.. both the white and red alfa colours are non-metallic right? does the 159 alfa red have paint fading problems like some non-metallic red cars.. or is it too early to tell?

another question.. would it be an unreasonable job (and require recallibration etc) to change a 19 wheel to a 17 or 18 wheel size? (for a more comfortable ride, less pothole damage risk, cheaper tyre replacement over time, etc). and how much would that cost?
it seems almost all post 2010 cars that come up on the market are with 19 wheels.
thank you
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on January 15, 2017, 12:42:10 PM
Quote from: As the day goes on January 15, 2017, 07:23:11 AM
I have turbos in my diesels.  Never think about it.  No warm-up or cool-down procedures.

Maybe petrols are different?
No they're not.

Warming up / idling down diesels one of the first disciplines instilled before the army lets you operate a truck or tank.  Doing this serves a number of purposes.  Getting the oil toward operating temperature and onto engine components at start up is one, obviously.  At shutdown you are trying to minimise thermal soak / shock by letting exhaust gas temperature in the turbo housing to drop gradually.  More critically it keeps oil pumping through the turbocharger bearings until it cools substantially even in 30 seconds.

If you see a piece of plant in camo paint being floated on a low loader you might notice the sandbag placed over the exhaust.  I kid you not, this is to prevent air entering the exhaust and spooling the turbocharger without oil feed. Whether this is needed I don't know but it's a practice that's observed.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on January 15, 2017, 12:55:05 PM
Quote from: fgv on January 15, 2017, 11:40:05 AManother question.. would it be an unreasonable job (and require recallibration etc) to change a 19 wheel to a 17 or 18 wheel size? (for a more comfortable ride, less pothole damage risk, cheaper tyre replacement over time, etc). and how much would that cost?
it seems almost all post 2010 cars that come up on the market are with 19 wheels.
thank you
That question isn't silly.  19" wheels can be a pain to own.  There is a car visibly identical to mine routinely parked in the adjoining street.  But the wheels on it are trashed.  Mine have the odd tiny ding on the lip because I drive with a degree of care and attention to this.  I suspect the 18" Ti wheels would have been far more practical.

But -- putting 17" wheels on a Ti??  No.  It'd look daft.  I suspect it wouldn't handle either; the suspension is set up for bigger wheels.  Ti suspension won't give you a comfortable ride anyway.  As I am getting older I can tell you I am really noticing the difference between harsh Ti ride and the supreme comfort of my Benzes.  If you are after comfort then look away from the Ti, maybe a 'normal' 159 is what you want??  As for the 19" tyres (often discussed here) yes they cost more but if you go for 245s on special you can get quality rubber for under $900 the set.  That is still more that what 17"s cost of course.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on January 15, 2017, 02:38:01 PM
I think no matter what the solid red colour is, on any make and model, it will fade quickly.  Mind you I have se A LOT of silver metallic 159s where it is obvious the rear bumper is a shade different. I suspect this is because of the different paints they had to use plastic vesus metal. Now after 10 years or so the effects are showing.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on January 15, 2017, 03:49:49 PM
Either that or 159 rear bumpers just attract a lot of parking lot trolleys.   ;)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 15, 2017, 06:05:14 PM
thanks for all the info guys!

kaleuclint - what you're saying makes sense. are the 18 wheels suitable for the ti-suspension, and do they require a re-callibration of the speedometer?
i've read in certain articles that in general 18 wheels are the 'sweet spot' for sedans - in terms of performance, comfort and longevity.
if it's not too much hassle / expense - i might consider that change.
by the way i'm not sure if you've mentioned what colour your 159 is?

bazzbazz and poohbah - are you guys considering getting a 159 at some stage? i note you both use 156s

as the day goes - how does your car look like a few years on, and how often do you do waxing / paint protection?

i think in the end i want to be realistic with my search; with a used car you might never get the perfect setup!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 15, 2017, 06:20:26 PM
so what i've learned so far from this thread and other websites

1. the late 2008 onwards production are a bit lighter (?50kgs) and updated from the initial production
2. somewhere in late 2010 the 3.2 became front-wheel-drive
therefore a more balanced 3.2 is the late 2008 to ?early 2010 Q4, which is still all-wheel-drive, but less weight in the front
3. the 1.75 TBI feels more balanced than the earlier 4/5 cylinders because of reduced weight in the front
4. in Australia, most post-2008 cars that were sold were in ti spec
5. production of the 159 ceased in late 2011 - therefore any 2012/2013 models are actually 'imported in that year' rather than produced in that year.
6. most later year 159s sold in Australia are either black, alfa red, stromboli grey, or alfa silver.. with a few white ones at some stage
7. both the 3.2 and the 1.75 engines are generally reliable engines - with no particularly bad known recurring issues. so they are both good choices for long-term use.

would you guys say that the above summary is fairly correct? thanks
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on January 15, 2017, 06:46:25 PM
Quote from: fgv on January 15, 2017, 06:05:14 PM

as the day goes - how does your car look like a few years on, and how often do you do waxing / paint protection?


For various reasons of the heart, just prior to Spectaccolo (grrrr) last year, I had my car resprayed  and then after a few weeks had Opticoat applied.  Should see me through the next 5 years.  The Opticoat means I only have to 2 bucket wash the car and use terry towels to wipe dry. If I feel like it, I will go over with a good quality detailer.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 15, 2017, 07:04:29 PM
opticoat sounds like a good way to go for keeping it looking good and clean; however did you consider paint protection films or do they have other downsides (besides costs)?
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on January 15, 2017, 07:51:40 PM
Wanted the best.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on January 15, 2017, 08:27:29 PM
Quote from: fgv on January 15, 2017, 06:05:14 PM
bazzbazz and poohbah - are you guys considering getting a 159 at some stage? i note you both use 156s

I own 3 actually, 2004 Alfa 156 2.0 JTS Sportwagon (Patty), 2000 Alfa 156 2.0 TS Selespeed with Sports Pack (Ruby) and a 1999 Alfa 156 2.0 TS Manual (Angelo) with full wooden interior that I am repairing to sell.

Would love to buy a 159, but my wife is expanding her business at the moment so financial constraints prevent this.

Not only that but I have so many accumulated spares for 156s (no, I am not a compulsive hoarder, I run my own Alfa Romeo Diagnostic service) I could build 2 more cars from them, so I don't think I could afford to move to a new model!  :o

;D  ;D  ;D

Baz
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 15, 2017, 11:01:39 PM
as the day goes - so opticoat is better than the paint protection film that some detailers do? some ppf quotes are around $4k for a full wrap.. which is significantly more than the opticoat if im not mistaken. i've never been to a detailer so its all based on what i've read..

bazzbazz - that's a lot of 156s! you must really like them! the problem with having too many cars is parking space - although that may not be a problem for you haha! maybe you could sell one 156 and get 159? which 159 would you get, if you were to get one?
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on January 15, 2017, 11:31:56 PM
If money was not a concern, 3.2 all wheel drive, no question.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on January 15, 2017, 11:47:10 PM
Quotebazzbazz and poohbah - are you guys considering getting a 159 at some stage? i note you both use 156s

Interesting question - before I bought my first 156, I was looking for a 159. But I fell in love with a Cosmos Blue series 1 156 Busso 2.5 6sp I spotted for sale on my way home from work one night, and that was that. I also had a mate who had traded in his 156 for a 159 and told me he always regretted it - he reckoned the 159 felt a lot heavier, and was less fun to drive. I haven't driven one, so can't really say whether its true.

I loved that first 156 to bits, even though it burnt to the ground (long story). The year I spent without it, I missed it like hell every day, and in particular the sound of that Busso V6. So when I finally decided my 35yo GTV really wasn't practical to keep using as my daily driver, I just had to get another 156 V6. If the 159 had come with a Busso motor, I might have been tempted to update, but to be honest I just really really love the look of the pre-facelift 156 more than anything else Alfa has built in the last 20 years, and nothing since has really got to me the same way. Not forgetting the terrific way it drives and sounds either!

I can't really imagine getting rid of it either - maybe I'll eventually pass it down to my son, (so I can still see it, drive it, and make sure it still gets looked after!) and use that as an excuse to get something else. I've always had a hankering for a 3L 75 Potenziata, but that might not be a very practical replacement unless I can find a mint one. Who knows, assuming it won't happen for a few years, as an older gent maybe I'll look out for a mint 166.  Or then again, maybe I'll take the plunge and find a 156 GTA...

Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on January 16, 2017, 05:42:42 AM
Quote from: fgv on January 15, 2017, 11:01:39 PM
as the day goes - so opticoat is better than the paint protection film that some detailers do? some ppf quotes are around $4k for a full wrap.. which is significantly more than the opticoat if im not mistaken. i've never been to a detailer so its all based on what i've read..


I have never seen a complete wrapped car I like.  At Spectaccolo there was a guy who spent a lot of money getting the front of his car wrapped with clear stuff only to point out to all how a stone had chipped this particular film.

Opticoat will help to protect your car from bird pooh and make it easier to clean.  It wont protect your car from careless people bumping or scrapping past ou.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 16, 2017, 06:11:36 PM
bazzbazz - sounds like we should keep an eye out.. i hope to see more 3.2 Q4's coming into the used market this year (hopefully the owners will look at getting the new giulia)

poohbah - that's an interesting car history. i get the impression that what you say is some of us really want from a car; something you look forward and enjoy on a daily basis. i think i will feel the same way when i get mine =)

as the day goes - i've heard of issues with the films. i think in the end we all have to accept some degree of wear and tear with anything; it's just entropy in action. i think the bird protection would  help a lot though - i always seem to park under trees lol
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 16, 2017, 06:18:31 PM
two scenarios that i wonder about, with both the 3.2 Q4 and the tbi.. both scenarios of which i had to do semi-regularly for work in the past.

1. a quite steep elevated area (called a mountain - but its short), that has lots of bends, where you have to slow to like 20-30kmh, top speed of 50kmh - for about 15-20 minutes

2. a gradual (but still relatively steep for highways) uphill but at 80-100 kmh for a longer period (a few minutes).

are either of the 159 versions going to find those fairly exertional - or is that 'easy' for that type of engine? it was one of the things i noticed to be a struggle with my current car for the past few years; but its not a performance vehicle. having said that the 159 is carrying a lot more weight. any thoughts?
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on January 16, 2017, 06:21:22 PM
Best of luck FGV - whatever you decide on, as long as you pick one in good nick, I'm sure you will love it. And then you'll be as addicted as the rest of us.

Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 16, 2017, 09:21:19 PM
thanks poohbah! it will be fun when/if it finally arrives! =)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on January 17, 2017, 01:59:27 PM
Quote from: fgv on January 15, 2017, 06:05:14 PM
thanks for all the info guys!

kaleuclint - what you're saying makes sense. are the 18 wheels suitable for the ti-suspension, and do they require a re-callibration of the speedometer?
i've read in certain articles that in general 18 wheels are the 'sweet spot' for sedans - in terms of performance, comfort and longevity.
if it's not too much hassle / expense - i might consider that change.
by the way i'm not sure if you've mentioned what colour your 159 is?


Sorry mate -- I don't know about speedo recalibration.  The 'South African batch' of 159Tis sold here have 18" inch wheels as do many of the EU market cars, so if a minor part change is needed it should be available.  Fitting 245s means that my tyres are slightly larger diameter anyway.  I should check speed using GPS.

(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r502/kaleu1963/7801f856-30d1-4f51-9379-04b857558a48.jpg)
My car is black.  Within two blocks of my house are two other black 1750 Tis (they are common as...) and a non-conforming silver one.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: As the day goes on January 17, 2017, 04:54:12 PM
I have 18s on my 159.

Speedo seems fine according tit he GPS but the trip meter seems out.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on January 17, 2017, 05:26:44 PM
This link has been posted before, and is very handy for working out how different rim/tyre sets will affect speedo reading etc:

http://www.willtheyfit.com/ (http://www.willtheyfit.com/)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on January 17, 2017, 06:04:39 PM
Quote from: fgv on January 15, 2017, 06:20:26 PM
so what i've learned so far from this thread and other websites

1. the late 2008 onwards production are a bit lighter (?50kgs) and updated from the initial production
2. somewhere in late 2010 the 3.2 became front-wheel-drive
therefore a more balanced 3.2 is the late 2008 to ?early 2010 Q4, which is still all-wheel-drive, but less weight in the front
3. the 1.75 TBI feels more balanced than the earlier 4/5 cylinders because of reduced weight in the front
4. in Australia, most post-2008 cars that were sold were in ti spec
5. production of the 159 ceased in late 2011 - therefore any 2012/2013 models are actually 'imported in that year' rather than produced in that year.
6. most later year 159s sold in Australia are either black, alfa red, stromboli grey, or alfa silver.. with a few white ones at some stage
7. both the 3.2 and the 1.75 engines are generally reliable engines - with no particularly bad known recurring issues. so they are both good choices for long-term use.

would you guys say that the above summary is fairly correct? thanks

Hi FGV,
Your appraisal of the 159 is pretty spot on.   I put my 2009 (built mid 2008) Q4 on corner weight scales and measured around 65kg lighter than the mass published in the owners manual.  I don't think Alfa updated the doco specs to reflect the lower mass of the "updated" model.  The use of a high strength alloy front cross member amongst other things managed to reduce the mass and stiffen the chassis further.  Revised design alloy suspension components also helped reduce weight and unsprung mass a bit. 
Another improvement was a redesign of the rear bushes in the front lower control arms.  These are about 20mm longer than the earlier model.  The bush is a bit stiffer and provides better geometry control.

With regard to your "two scenarios", I haven't driven a 1750 for some time.  From what I can remember it is a very sweet engine, however way different in character to the 3.2.  The 3.2 is a pretty torquey engine thanks to the high compression possible by Direct Injection.  The longish stroke and variable inlet camshaft timing also helps torque.  The 3.2 will also rev quite freely thanks to good breathing, 4 x valves per cylinder and again variable camshaft timing and phasing.  I've had mine bouncing on the rev limiter at 7200 rpm in 4th gear down the main straight at Phillip Island!  The 3.2 will pull ok from idle in first, from 1k in 2nd and from 1500 in 3rd. 

Colin
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 23, 2017, 07:10:35 PM
thanks guys. the link is interesting - i think i'd have to have more of a chat with an alfa specialist before doing anything like that though.

kaleuclint - it looks stunning in black. funny that you have neighbours with the same car. im guessing you live in a suburb with people who have good taste in cars! =)

Colin Edwards - thanks for sharing the thoughts. what you describe sounds like pretty much what i want from a car!
by the way, would you consider the later year front-wheel-drive 3.2? or would it be too nose heavy?
the specs seem to indicate that the 1.75 is 1430kg, the 3.2 Q4 is 1610kg, and the 3.2 front wheel drive is 1540kg. (and later year 2.4 diesel is 1585kg).
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on January 24, 2017, 01:26:22 PM
Quote from: fgv on January 23, 2017, 07:10:35 PM
thanks guys. the link is interesting - i think i'd have to have more of a chat with an alfa specialist before doing anything like that though.

kaleuclint - it looks stunning in black. funny that you have neighbours with the same car. im guessing you live in a suburb with people who have good taste in cars! =)

Colin Edwards - thanks for sharing the thoughts. what you describe sounds like pretty much what i want from a car!
by the way, would you consider the later year front-wheel-drive 3.2? or would it be too nose heavy?
the specs seem to indicate that the 1.75 is 1430kg, the 3.2 Q4 is 1610kg, and the 3.2 front wheel drive is 1540kg. (and later year 2.4 diesel is 1585kg).
Actually I live Australia's Mercedes heartland.  There are more of them here than any other make and the only place in the country where that's the case.  And yes I've got one...

Alfas are statistically thin on the ground but the 159Ti 1750 dominates (I think...do diesels have dual exhausts?).
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: alfamisa on January 25, 2017, 02:00:32 PM
Quote from: kaleuclint on January 24, 2017, 01:26:22 PM
Alfas are statistically thin on the ground but the 159Ti 1750 dominates (I think...do diesels have dual exhausts?).

The 1750 petrol, 2.2 petrol, 3.2 petrol and 2.4 diesel all have twin exhaust pipes.

Only the 1.9 diesel is single exhaust.

You'll find the 2.2 dominates in numbers compared to much fewer 1750's that were imported right towards the tail of 159 life. Even fewer Breras. Sadly.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 26, 2017, 10:11:35 PM
kaleuclint - that still qualifies as good taste! haha.

i'm interested to see what comes up in terms of people selling alfa 159s in the coming year.. it's already 5 years since the last imported batch.. and with the new alfa giulia coming out as well. i'm hoping to have more to choose from but it won't help that there wasn't too many sold to begin with!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on February 03, 2017, 11:58:46 AM
did you guys see the news recently that the alfa giulia QV orders has been 'sold out'? (didn't say how many cars though).

i guess this leads back to whether it's current alfa owners who are getting this new alfa.. and whether this means there will be more of the recent year 159s on the market.

i've been monitoring carsales and other dealers for the past 6 months.. so far only one 2010 manual 3.2.. (which we didn't confirm whether it was a Q4 or not). a few automatics but even then not many.

it can't be that rare can it? or are people just not selling? the same way that some of our posters here have 156s from 15 years ago etc.. =)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on February 03, 2017, 02:53:45 PM
Good question...

They would be quite rare.  Then again the 1750 Ti was quite rare for years (maybe one on carsales if you were lucky) and now there are five or so at a time.

Some owners will upgrade to the Giulia.  Some sick of waiting have probably already gone elsewhere.  Some like me won't pay $70k for the Giulia and one day will realise we've become like those 156 holdouts!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on February 03, 2017, 06:29:42 PM
Quote from: kaleuclint on February 03, 2017, 02:53:45 PM
Some like me won't pay $70k for the Giulia and one day will realise we've become like those 156 holdouts!

Well I'm hoping they depreciate as fast as all other Alfa's have. A horrible thing to say I know, but it's the only way
I can afford to buy one at the moment.   ::)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on February 03, 2017, 07:16:38 PM
Quotewe've become like those 156 holdouts

Oi, are you referring to me? I admit, I love my 156, and don't ever see myself getting rid of it. But I would like to get Giulia QV too - after a few years when the depreciation has worked its magic, of course! In other words, I'm with baz on this.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on February 05, 2017, 01:43:26 AM
i wouldn't buy a new car myself, but $70k is quite reasonable for a car of that build / appearance isn't it? i would definitely think it would be a good idea to get it second hand.. but that could take a few years to see them being sold.. maybe around 2020 or so?

being a hold out for a car you really like sounds like a good idea. i just wonder whether for some people that might be getting a new alfa giulia and keeping it for a very long time..
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on February 05, 2017, 09:55:00 AM
Well the first Brand New car I ever bought was a VR commodore, the first "World Class" Commodore, and at the time it was ground breaking (as for as commodores went). I kept it and drove it into the ground, got about 300,000kms out of it.

If I could afford a new Giulia I would care for it and keep it till IT became a classic . . . but that's just me.   :)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on February 05, 2017, 11:36:09 AM
2011 159Ti 1750TBi manual with 23,100 kms listed by Zags at $27990 -- sold within three days.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on February 16, 2017, 03:09:44 PM
hi again guys,
would anyone be able to comment on the clearance over bumps for the 3.2 Q4?
i've been reading around - and it seems the 1.75 has an ?undertray which is prone to hitting bumps.. and you have to be careful with the 159s which are more 'nose heavy', with bumps in general (especially the diesel versions).
since the Q4 is better balanced and less nose heavy is this less of a factor? or does the drive train sit low and also prone to being hit by bumps?

another thing, what was the consensus for when to service the timing chain again for the 3.2? the timing belt replacement for 1.75 is 3 years / 40k km yes?
thanks
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on February 16, 2017, 04:42:59 PM
The clearance is very low - more so a Ti.  My undertray was replaced by dealer as part of the RWC prior to my purchase.  The undertray is very large - extends back to around the front of the doors.  Lowest point is the composite aluminum heat shield.  Replaced it twice now.  Undertray is held on by about 14 fasteners!!!

Only need to replace timing chain when warning light comes on.  Still safe to drive for for a bit.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on February 17, 2017, 10:56:15 AM
that's very useful info Colin.. so its really a general thing for this car then. how much did the undertray replacement cost?
i remember reading somewhere that the difference between the standard (or lusso?) vs ti clearance was over 10mm - does that sound correct? i couldn't find the site i read that though..
regarding the chain - is that something you find assuring that it doesn't require changing as often, or would you consider it a non-factor in the overall complexity of maintenance for the car?
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Colin Edwards on February 17, 2017, 11:28:56 AM
The Ti is "officially" 20mm lower than a "standard" 159.  This includes the slightly larger rolling dia of the 19" wheels / tyres.  I recently installed Koni "sport" dampers. These are gas pressurized dampers like the originals however I reckon the Koni's run a lower pressure as the car is 2-3mm lower again. 

Vendor supplied new under tray - I believe they are around $700!!

I consider the timing chain as I would any other major engine component like bearings, crank or camshafts.  These will all wear to various degrees.  The JTS engine or any Direct Injection engine of mid 2000's vintage can suffer accelerated chain wear if the oil and oil filter is not changed at regularly frequent intervals.  Direct injection engines in the past were known to contaminate and thicken oil.  The good thing about the JTS is it tells you when the chain wear is excessive.  So you drive the car, maintain it and forget about the chain until the warning arrives.  This warning should not however be ignored!!!

Liqui Moly, Penrite and Motul do good oil for the JTS.  I use the Motul.  It has all the Fiat approvals and has low volatility - a critical parameter for Direct Injection engines.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on February 17, 2017, 02:56:52 PM
20mm is significant! that can make the difference between hitting something under the car or avoiding it completely!
it's good that the undertrays can still be easily replaced though..

thanks again for all the info Colin, i'll keep it all in mind when i get my car! which still isn't appearing on the horizon, incidently.. lol
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on February 17, 2017, 06:49:20 PM
As a comparison, both my 156s had/have factory lowered suspension (25mm). You do have to be a little careful when it comes to speed bumps and driving down ramps onto a flat surface but you quickly get used to it. Also need to watch out for high kerbing when parking head on (I generally reverse park as a rule, which removes any risk of scraping the bottom lip of the front spoiler.)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: cc on February 17, 2017, 10:20:32 PM
Hi poohbah. My Monza is low at the front. Do you know which springs to use to bring the nose up to a standard 156 height? Im on my 3rd support frame that sits under he radiator!
cheers
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on February 18, 2017, 12:27:39 PM
Wish I could help cc, I have no idea. Word of warning though. I've driven a couple of 156s with standard springs & shocks, and it was like riding in a boat. Way too much body roll for me. I also think they look a bit naff riding so high.

You could try a shock/ spring set up that is adjustable so you can reach a happy compromise. But that's probably not a cheap option!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on February 21, 2017, 01:08:51 AM
poohbah, is there any reason you want the car to be so low - is it just a preference, or do you have a particular driving style, or have track days? i thought a standard 156 would handle really well already, without needing that much modification? it is nice to know that you get used to it though! i just hop over everything on my current car with its pretty good clearance!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on February 21, 2017, 09:23:30 AM
There is a hotrodder saying "the answer to attitude is altitude". Just means cars look better and meaner if they are lower. I think the 156 especially looks more purposeful with its chin just off the tarmac!

I'm not an overly aggressive driver, but I do like getting out in the country and giving it some welly, and the lowered setup does make a difference. I was really surprised how much more body roll, and general floatiness there was in the couple of 156s ive driven that had standard spring setups.

My 81 GTV is even lower to the ground, and really does require me to be paying attention to any uneven surfaces or speed humps and kerbs. You just get used to it.

Here's a pictorial explanation of why I prefer lowered suspension - my white '99 156 vs a '99 156 with stock ride height: Stock just looks a bit limp, to my eyes anyway!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on February 21, 2017, 02:59:54 PM
Amazing how quickly you build up a mental catalogue of bits of road to avoid with the Ti suspension.  New Street in Brighton up from the golf course, an exposed metal hatch that strikes the bottom of the car.  A tarmac 'undulation' in the left lane on Thomas Street around from Brighton Alfa.  Even the car park ramp at the local Coles.

It looks better maybe.  It handles better (probably not an issue 99 percent of the time).  But it's a pain to live with on an everyday car as well; a bit like having the 19" wheels.  I don't like SUVs but I see the attraction of not having things hitting under your car!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on February 21, 2017, 04:33:32 PM
Not just stuff hitting under your car - you also have to take other quirks into consideration. If I need access to the underside of my Alfas, I can't drive either of them directly onto wheel ramps - I first have to hook up a make-shift ramp (eg a plank!) to get on the ramp ...

But at the end of the day, its not enough to put me off.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on February 22, 2017, 03:19:16 PM
wow.. it does look very different although it's only a few cms.. it is very noticeable.
i think the 159 doesn't really need to look 'lower' since its a fairly big car.. but as we discussed earlier - i may not have much of a choice depending on what comes up in the second hand market haha.

i do think to myself how a lower suspension cars would go on those car park ramps. i'm cautious with them even on my normal height old car.

a ferrari was beside my car at the petrol station yesterday - there's barely any clearance on those things.. how do they navigate the car park ramps? (maybe supercar owners don't shop at coles lol)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on February 23, 2017, 06:14:16 PM
There a lots of supercars around my place.  Nobody takes them to the shops!  You might not pick that the guy in the Holden crew cab has a Lambo, two Ferraris, two Mercedes, a Lotus, F1 and F3 race cars...  Not kidding,
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on February 28, 2017, 11:53:37 PM
i guess you can't fit a lot of groceries in the supercar either.. another thing is they seem to make a lot of noise too; its like they drown out the other vehicles with their engine sounds. must be part of the experience or something..
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on March 04, 2017, 11:35:54 AM
Well, yes.  You get that around here too.  Any sunny Saturday morning some of the supercar owners DO take their Ferraris along Church Street.  Here's the thing though -- for all the "look at me" noise and throttle blipping they travel no faster then a Cinquecento.

My mate with the Lambo / Ferraris, F1 racer, etc?  No, he'd never be seen there.  Possibly the difference between a 'car guy' and being a rich git with a toy.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Thijsvr on June 11, 2017, 11:06:48 AM
Quote from: poohbah on December 06, 2016, 03:48:37 PM
its not red or white, and it is a sportwagon but just spotted this Q4 Ti on carsales.
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Alfa-Romeo-159-2009/SSE-AD-4115999/?Cr=1 (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Alfa-Romeo-159-2009/SSE-AD-4115999/?Cr=1)

Looks like there are also a couple of Q4 sedans for sale - but all around the 08/09 MY.

Do you know if this was a manual? I'm looking for a 3.2 Q4 SW but I want a manual and I have yet to see one of those for sale.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on June 11, 2017, 01:32:14 PM
Too long ago to remember. But probably not.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: GTA539 on July 11, 2017, 06:50:30 PM
There's a black 159ti SW manual for sale in NSW at for 38k?!

With regards to 159ti clearance, I have a 159ti V6SW and I do have to slow down for speed bumps as everyone does but it's not that bad as long as you're not flying over them!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on July 23, 2017, 01:14:32 AM
is there a reason the wagon is priced that much higher or is it just because it's relatively rare?

i thought with that amount of mileage a 159, a 3.2 of that year would be around $30k?

i wonder if we will start seeing a number of second production (2008-2009) 3.2s emerging on the market over the next year - this is only the second one i've seen on carsales since august last year!
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: GTV6SA on January 15, 2018, 12:16:27 PM
Mine is one of the last Awd  3.2 Ti's built June 2010 and would have to agree with Colin about low ground clearance and being  careful approaching all speed bumps, dips in gutters as well as gravel type driveways about grounding.According go the owners manual mass us 1610Kg.   not the 1680 in Carsales
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Stu159 on January 15, 2018, 03:56:28 PM
wasn't there a batch of automatic Q4's that came in around 2011-2012 as a sort of run out, last hurrah type thing? I was told that. Around the same time the limited edition GT anniversary run was done. I'm with you on the Automatic thing, mine is a manual and I've never owned an automatic anything (car). I've had mine for x 10 years now, bought it as a demo in 2008 and it's been a good car. Just note you'll need to sort the suspension bushes straight away if you want the tyres to last longer then 10,000k's
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Stu159 on January 15, 2018, 04:06:09 PM
I've just had B16 Bilsteins fitted to mine and I have no more issues with scraping than I had previously. It's lowered right down all the way round and it has made no difference. It's lower than a Ti. Sure, you have to be careful, but it's no worse strangely enough. Improves the look of the car a great deal. Much improved handling also
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: kaleuclint on March 30, 2018, 12:03:15 PM
Suspension bushes the only degradation issue ever with my first 159.  The plastic cambelt cover on the 1750 disintegrates in your fingers when old and I've gone through more than one cracked coolant header tank.

I suspect my 159ti may be my last manual car.  Ghibli, Giulia, C63 -- no choice.

I want clutch pedal / pull-up handbrake like my 159 (or a Getz!).  The dark side of BMW probably awaits.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: bazzbazz on March 30, 2018, 02:37:03 PM
Quote from: kaleuclint on March 30, 2018, 12:03:15 PM
The dark side of BMW probably awaits.

Heritic !   :)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on December 25, 2018, 02:12:41 AM
Hey fgv, are you still looking for your unicorn 159 AWD V6 wagon? Just spotted this on FB -AWD Q4 6sp -  its a 2006, but has only done 107k.

www.facebook.com/groups/1489348214704573/ (http://www.facebook.com/groups/1489348214704573/)

"December 22 at 4:09 PM
Alfa Romeo 159 Q4 AWD V6
$9,000
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Up for sale is my 2006 Alfa Romeo 159 Q4 with 107000kms.

6 speed gearbox shifts smoothly, engine sounds amazing. Minor paint scratches which can be seen in photos. Beautiful interior, plenty of boot space. Has had front brake rotors, pads and sensors replaced 5000kms ago aswell as all fluids and some bulbs. Air filter was replaced a month ago and fully synthetic oil and oil filter will be replaced within the week. Price is Negotiable."

Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on December 27, 2018, 11:39:16 PM
hi Poohbah!

thanks for remembering me and my alfa quest!

i actually purchased an amazing alfa 159 3.2 sedan from an alfa enthusiast earlier this year! have been enjoying driving it ever since!

hope everyone else is enjoying their alfa's too!! :)
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on December 28, 2018, 11:40:32 AM
Glad to hear you found something you liked. Merry Xmas and happy New Year to all Alfisti.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: Craig_m67 on December 28, 2018, 05:38:50 PM
Quote from: poohbah on December 25, 2018, 02:12:41 AM
Hey fgv, are you still looking for your unicorn 159 AWD V6 wagon? Just spotted this on FB -AWD Q4 6sp -  its a 2006, but has only done 107k.

www.facebook.com/groups/1489348214704573/ (http://www.facebook.com/groups/1489348214704573/)


Closed group... pooh
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: poohbah on December 28, 2018, 06:10:07 PM
Sorry didn't realise - but its one group maybe worth joining, and its not a group you need to be invited by anyone to join.
Title: Re: 2012 alfa 159 3.2
Post by: fgv on January 09, 2019, 12:27:55 AM
thanks Poohbah, and everyone who contributed to the thread.

it is a wonderful car, and driving it is very enjoyable! :)