Alfa Romeo Owners Club of Australia Forum

Technical => 900 Series (Alfasud, Alfasud Sprint, 33) => Topic started by: Alfa.mg on January 30, 2016, 11:07:42 PM

Title: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on January 30, 2016, 11:07:42 PM
I've just bought two alfas, and the wife hasn't killed me! Alfa number 6. I found a rust free 83 Alfa Sud Ti in ROMA qld and a very cheap very rusty 33 who has kindly donated its organs, although I couldn't tell that to the seller.

The Sud has been fondled with a little, mostly damaged plastics, no door interiors, a home made ugly exhaust job, and a new paint job which requires a little more elbow grease to make good. But all in all very promising! Absolutely no rust, although I did wash it so I probably should look again! It's a single carb ti with steel wheels, but I plan to make it an 83 twin carb TI with the Alfa 14" speedlines.

I picked it up in Roma and drove it 500kms to Brisbane to be trucked to Melb. It was the most unenjoyable drive I have ever had in an Alfa, as I was absolutely petrified the cam belts were going to break, and I would have to abandon this car in the middle of outback qld. All I knew is that they hadn't been changed in the last 7yrs!!  In response to all the nasty things that have been said about alfas reliability, this Sud kept on going. Despite a pull to the right when accelerating and to the left when breaking, an occasional scary vibration from eng, not idling when cold, an occasional bad earth on my left indicator, a thorough inspection by the QLD police in Toowoomba, one small kangaroo to the front spoiler, we made it. Now the car is in Sunbury Melbourne for some TLC. I've already scored 5 speedline wheels off eBay for a steel, got the twin carb eng and cables from the 33, new tie rod ends on the way from the UK, and might start with overhauling the suspension starting with all new original rubbers. Looking forward to the project, joining the  Vic Alfa club, hooning round Melb in a Sud again and one day bringing it to the Alfa spettacollo.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: amichie on January 31, 2016, 12:46:31 PM
Looks like fun. Have a look for rust under the battery and brake master cylinder also.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on January 31, 2016, 04:45:02 PM
None! Unbelievable i know. My last sud had some rust there. Hopefully he hasnt just bogged over any rust. It does have the usual body cracks in engine bay that will need repairing though.

Amichie, do you have the red sud Ti in sydney that i saw photos of on this forum? It looks great if it is. Exactly what aiming for.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: amichie on January 31, 2016, 07:15:38 PM
I do have a Red SUD TI QV but it may not be the one you have seen pics of. I haven't really posted many pics on the forum.

Here is a pic anyway.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on February 05, 2016, 08:18:21 AM
Can anyone shed some light on a proper identification of my sud. Ive sent an email to Marco Fazio;
According to our documentation files, the chassis number ZAS 901G5005102648 originally corresponds to an Alfa Romeo Alfasud TI 1500 RHD, manufactured on the 28th October 1983 and sold on the 11th January 1984 in Australia.
The body colour is Alfa red.
What im asking is, what is this ti referred to as? Clover leaf, green/gold or just a ti? It had the red cArpet, ti seats, series 3 dash with extra instruments, red heart around grill, steel wheels and a single carb 1.5. I just like to know as when im sourcing parts people are asking me if its green or gold clover? And where do i find information to see if engine number is original?
Thanks Mark
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: amichie on February 05, 2016, 06:01:44 PM
Your chassis number matches a ALFASUD TI QV (Green cloverleaf) 1983.
Alfasud Ti 1.5 QV    ZAS901G50*05094000 to *05102999    Type 901 G5C, Engine Type AS30146

Have a look here for more info

http://alfasud.alfisti.net/indexe.htm
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: amichie on February 05, 2016, 06:04:22 PM
Also what is your engine number? It should be a dual carb and should have the split cams with adjustable lifters.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on February 05, 2016, 07:04:02 PM
Thanks Amichie,
The engine is AS30126, single carb 1.5. It does have the adjustable Split lobe setup. But with pressed steel rocker covers just to confuse the matter. I'm surprised they made a TI Sud single carb that late in the game.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on April 06, 2016, 02:56:41 PM
Finally found my magnet, the kids like playing with my tools :| looks like my rust free sud has had some in all the usual places, but been repaired. All panels look good from behind, and no sign of anything coming back. Thinking of spraying a rust preventor, any recomendations?
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: carlo rossi on April 06, 2016, 09:01:38 PM
Can i be rude and ask how much its beautiful
Also refer to an earlier post
they had the same carby as the 1.2  23/24
they love the weber 26/27 version (alla cortina escort)
add 10 hp looks the same and still use original air cleaner
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on April 06, 2016, 09:52:52 PM
Yeah i dont mind. Picked sud up for 1300, pretty good considering the body condition. Other parts could be better but easier than body work.  A lot cheaper in oz than in Europe. I missed one that sold in canb for 1000 earlier this year, was an 83 sud ti twin carb, complete but had a "bit of rust."
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on April 27, 2016, 01:09:58 PM
Anyone know the correct paint code for red alfa sud ti? Is it AR514?
Thanks
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: amichie on April 27, 2016, 08:35:49 PM
I think it is AR530 Alfa red.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on June 28, 2016, 10:48:53 AM
Can anyone recommend and engine shop in melbourne for some work on the boxer engine. Just looking for some head work and cylinders rebored one size. I've never used anyone before.
Thanks
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Neil Choi on June 28, 2016, 02:27:02 PM
Depending on which area of Melbourne you are in.

North, Brunswick, Maranello Pur Sang, Bruno and Gianocarlo, Bruno done Evan's race Sud motor not long ago and goes pretty well.

East, Bayswater, Hugh at Monza motors

South East, Clayton, Seby at Mauceri motors.

You can't go wrong with any of these.  No connection, other than being Alfa mates.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on June 28, 2016, 03:14:58 PM
Thanks Neil, thats perfect.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on June 28, 2016, 04:02:17 PM
Thanks Neil, exactly what i was after
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: colcol on June 28, 2016, 08:59:29 PM
PACE Engineering, 3 Tralee Court, Park Orchards, [03] 9844 0147, talk to Vin Sharp, life member of the Alfa Club, very clever man about all things Alfa Romeo, Colin.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Sportscar Nut on June 28, 2016, 09:34:20 PM
Suggest you check engine bores & pistons for wear before going for over size pistons. Makes the job more complex & expensive boring the block and finding factory pistons (although 1.5 pistons & rings are readily available unlike 1.7 8 valve engines).

Overhauling the heads is also time consuming but worth the effort IMO!

Enjoy the Sud and can highly recommend Benincas (who rebuilt my engine).
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on June 28, 2016, 10:16:25 PM
Thanks. Ive stripped it down, and had a look. Bores look in great condition with nice cross hatch pattern all the way down, but they do have a very minor step. I'd be much happier to just change rings and re-hone if its possible. Need to start measuring and see where we are at. But the heads i will definately be geting done.

Is it likely that i can have the step reamed out and still be in standard size bores?

Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: colcol on June 28, 2016, 11:00:09 PM
You will need to go to an engine builder that can measure your bores with a bore gauge and determine if it can be honed out or it needs to be rebored to remove the step, and it will depend on what size pistons are available, no good boring it out to the next size rebore if the pistons are no longer available, Colin.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Sportscar Nut on June 29, 2016, 09:55:23 PM
You should be able to find 1.5 o/s pistons and rings but would consider getting the rings made (and probably cheaper & better quality) if just needs a hone.

The engines suffer from poor breathing so modifying the air filter & exhaust will provide great results for little effort!
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on July 22, 2016, 04:12:25 PM
Thanks everyone. Bottom end all standard specs and coming together nicely.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on September 16, 2016, 09:22:13 AM
Engine build is coming along nicely, bottom end is finished. Unfortunely my heads have corroded badly and there is only about 4mm for the head gasket to seal between combustion chamber head and water gallery. Not to mention the internal corrosion i cant see. So ive bought a set of 105hp heads off ebay but have yet to get them.
While im waiting on my heads ive pulled the suspension down. Ive go all new bushes going in. I would like to lower sud for aesthetic reasons. Ive read every post i can find on the topic but thought i check here. I was thinking of resetting springs about 30mm lower. Is the only problem that it will mess my camber up on the front? I was thinking i could fix the camber issue with slotted holes or offset slugs where the shock attaches to the hub as ive seen others have done. Thoughts or theories? Thanks Mark
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on September 29, 2016, 05:57:04 PM
Ive just picked up my new heads while i was in sydney. They are off a 30182 engine. The cam pulleys are pressed steel instead of the cast ones i already have. Lining them up they are the same, so same size belt.
What is the reasons for the change? Is it lighter for performance, cheaper to make, better looking? Just wondering which one to pick. Im assuming that they connect to the camshaft in the same way.
Thanks Mark
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: amichie on October 01, 2016, 06:44:35 AM
The pressed steel wheels are the lightest of the factory cam wheels.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on October 03, 2016, 09:39:17 AM
Thanks Amichie.

Just pulled my inserts out while i wait on some engine parts. I have bilstein inserts, no leaking externally but they appear to be shot. Can be compressed easily and stay compressed if you leave it. Looks like bilstein still list the sud in their parts catalogue. Im fairly sure mine aren't rebuildable but ill find out from the experts.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on October 03, 2016, 09:47:55 AM
Actually they only have the rears listed.  :'(
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on December 12, 2016, 03:00:32 PM
Ok this is seriously fun. Put it all together just waiting on one custom shim to be made. Got the rest of my shims from a VW specialist for 5$ a shim. Custom one $10. Not too shabby.
My heads came off a 105hp engine but i didnt get the 40mm webers, so what is a 105hp 1.5 with weber 36's?
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 13, 2017, 02:18:30 PM
I've just finished gearbox reco. Put new synchro rings and sleeve on second, they were well rounded. Put donor 5th gear dog teeth and sleeve on third/fourth and flipped the original 5th sleeve. Bearings show no sign of wear so im keeping them and therefore I believe that keeps bearing preloading the same
Now im onto the diff. I wanted to change the oil seals in the diff carriers. It looks as if a special tool is needed to remove the "ring nut" holding them together. Is this true or does anyone know of a way to do it at home?
Thanks
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: amichie on May 16, 2017, 06:46:53 PM
Definitely need the tool. I made one that is a copy of the ALfa tool. Maybe just find a workshop that has it and ask them to change the seals for you.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: dfrye on May 17, 2017, 02:16:39 PM
I'd pop those plastic sill covers off before declaring it completely rust free :)
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: dfrye on May 17, 2017, 02:20:57 PM
By the way, I have an NOS set of oil, water and clock with senders and the mounting bezel. As I recall, these were mounted under the dash on the earlier cars - let me know if you are interested in them.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 18, 2017, 09:22:02 AM
Thanks Amichie. Will probably do that. I dont suppose you remember the size and type of thread do you? I remember seeing a forum written by someone who had made the tool but cant find it now.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: amichie on May 18, 2017, 07:02:20 PM
M40 x 1.5 mm

I got one of these nuts and welded it into a length of pipe. Then welded a plate and nut on the other end.

The outer side of nut also needed to be turned down a little to fit inside the little wheel hub.

https://www.ebay.com.au/p/?iid=361572314082&&&chn=ps
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 18, 2017, 08:41:23 PM
Oh thats a great idea. I was thinking about getting a thread cut into a pipe but welding a nut on and turning it down seems like something I can do. Thanks!
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on June 15, 2017, 10:01:35 PM
Trying to sort the fuel/brake lines that run front to back. I have fuel to the engine and a fuel return to the filler pipe on the tank. There is a third line which attaches to the rear of the fuel vapour box in the boot. Where should it attach in the engine bay on a twin carb sud?
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 09, 2018, 08:42:45 PM
Ok, Im nearly finished the sud. Haven't been posting, too busy fitting parts! i just have to iron out some niggly little things before i try and get a roadworthy.
Does anyone know about the size of the grease caps on the rear discs? I fitted new brembo discs with bearings but the grease caps I had are too big for it. I've heard there were plastic ones too, does anyone know the size of them?
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Bourney on May 10, 2018, 01:26:29 PM
Sorry, can't help you with your question, just wanted to say your car looks great! I have just been through the process with my 83 and it took about 8 months after "finishing it" to sort through all the bugs/get every single thing working/running properly.

Are you still fighting with the handbrake - I see you have a brick behind a wheel? Looks exactly like a pic of mine at the same stage! There are lots of posts on this site and others about fixing this. I gave this job to an Alfa specialist and even he was dreading it.

Look forward to hearing more updates.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Craig_m67 on May 10, 2018, 01:42:36 PM
Quote from: Alfa.mg on June 15, 2017, 10:01:35 PM
Trying to sort the fuel/brake lines that run front to back. I have fuel to the engine and a fuel return to the filler pipe on the tank. There is a third line which attaches to the rear of the fuel vapour box in the boot. Where should it attach in the engine bay on a twin carb sud?

From memory, doesn't all this plump to the the charcoal vapor collection canister (about the size of a 2L tetra brick).
On my '87 Sprint QV this was located on the RH inner fender near about level with RH Carb.

That's assuming your car (originally) had all this pollution gubbins, it came in around '83/'84 from memory
Along with unleaded fuel
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: rowan_bris on May 10, 2018, 03:42:17 PM
Unleaded came in 1987
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 10, 2018, 04:20:44 PM
Haha no my handbrake works well bourney, i just have a really steep driveway, so its in gear, and handbrake and brick. Overkill I know, but I have had a car go down byitself once with a good handbrake on. 
8 months, I can see how that can happen. Especially when most bits I source are from overseas. Not having any luck with local wreckers, I always seem to go there at an inconvenient time.
I have three smallish issues, one being a small leak from brake hard line near master cyl, an occasional running on three cylinders, I think its leads or distributor. I really want to put a 123 destributor in, so im just holding out on that problem. And no grease caps on rear discs. Its far from perfect on the outside but very respectable. Will be lots more finishing to come too, but ill get her registered first. I did have a lot more bugs and ended changing the whole wiring loom to one which hadnt been changed so much. Hard to fault find when you trace it back with schematic to a fuse which has nothing connected behind it.
Im very happy with the suspension feel on the lowered king springs, it took a while for it to settle, but its only slightly lower than stock, and doesnt feel too stiff. Havent had a go on a bad road though.
I dont know why but im loving the old radio casette player. Very retro cool. I love that it plays music to me when i work on it.
Cant wait to have a drive!
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 10, 2018, 04:26:45 PM
No charcoal cannister on the 3 x 83 sud ti's i've seen. This one has a fuel vapour line to the oil vapour lines near the flame trap. That took me a long time to work out because my engine was from a 33. The 33 1.5 did have a charcoal cannister though.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Sportscar Nut on May 10, 2018, 09:04:17 PM
The Sud is looking good and great to hear another one is being put back on the road. The original radio cassette player makes the interior look so period so enjoy listening to your old tapes!

Highly recommend leaving the original distributor as when setup properly, are reliable and should last many years. Same with the carbies so recommend getting an old Alfa guy to look at. Have not had my Sud tuned for 10 years and run beautifully - they are so mechanically reliable.

The TiQV Suds came with a charcoal canister in the hatch on the LHS under the top panel and has one line to the fuel tank and (from memory) one to the engine. The canisters were an ADR requirement under the limited imports rules in 1983. Alfa Aust managed the limited rule as only sold 250 TiQV's here.

Enjoy
Paul

Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 10, 2018, 09:17:41 PM
Thanks Paul,
I thought the cannister in the back was just a condensor, filled with metal plates to condense fuel and return it to tank, I have that.
You are certainly correct on the reliability of carbs and dizzie when in working order, not sure I have a dizzie thats up to speed, but you may have given me the motivation to stick with it and save some $$$ at the same time. However, dad put a 123 ignition in his 105 and it's the bees knees.
I will enjoy thanks!
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: amichie on May 10, 2018, 09:31:47 PM
Have you got the original Marelli distributor with two pick ups?
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Craig_m67 on May 10, 2018, 10:56:54 PM
Quote from: rowan_bris on May 10, 2018, 03:42:17 PM
Unleaded came in 1987

That would make sense.. my Sprint QV was on the cusp.

as you were



That said, it had both the long "vapour trap" in the rear shown in the OP's diagram and a metal canister in the engine bay.
I removed it all and enjoyed the crackle on overrun and the ticking exhaust as it cooled down.. happy days.

God i loved that car.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 10, 2018, 11:18:03 PM
Amichie,  I do have the twin pickup marelli installed atm.  It runs beautifully staticly, but is insanely sluggish off the mark. Seems just ok when you get onto the main jets.
Thinking about it,  Im gonna start by triple checking my cambelt timing. I built the engine on a stand and double checked it, and cant see why it would be out,  but ill start with that.  A tooth out could explain lack of any torque.
I also have a single pickup marelli,  but it needs a new vac advance.  My lh carb has a vac advance port. 
Was the twin pickup marelli just an australian and swiss emmissions thing? 
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: amichie on May 11, 2018, 10:26:32 AM
Hi there. All the Marellis suffer from wear in the mechanical advance mechanism.
Easy enough to check with a timing light. Just rev it up and see if it gets anywhere near the last timing mark.
Yours should have a TDC centre mark, an idle mark and a high rpm mark. Some also have a 2000rpm mark.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 11, 2018, 06:01:45 PM
Yes,  the internal mechanical advance isnt quite getting to the 4000rpm mark,  but is close.  Was one of the reasons i was looking at 123 distributor. I know i can get it serviced. I have a timing light where i can check actual advance,  i didnt think it was far enough out to cause such poor torque but I am rechecking everything now. Ive just checked all my timing marks.  Looks good to me.  But im getting a second opinion in the morning. The right hand cam is half the width of the mark behind but i dont belive its a whole tooth out.  Sometimes all three line up perfectly, hard to get it to sit at tdc to check alone as the rh Cam is loaded, and you can get a fair amount of movement from flywheel with very little movement on cams. Im pretty sure i tried a tooth either side when i was putting it on. And im always moving in correct rotation trying to stop right at tdc. 
Thanks for all the suggestions,  i will look into all of it.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: amichie on May 12, 2018, 12:45:27 PM
Just reading through the ALfa manual. The second pick up gives 4 degrees advance and is only activated when the engine is cold.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 12, 2018, 02:05:23 PM
Oh thanks, thats the opposite of what I thought it did. Ill try and read up, is it just in the owners manual?
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 12, 2018, 09:52:39 PM
With the help of dad,  we found what was causing my lack of power. Checked timing,  compression, all good.  Was loosing cyl 1 continuously. Checked spark,  no1 had spark.  Plug was black but not wet.  So we started checking everything fuel related. We found I had the fuel line to the right hand carb entering at the return fuel nipple which is restricted. I had put it together copying off the pics in the manual, thinking both nipples were the same. Made all the difference, So im happy now! Not quite getting full advance at 4000rpm but is only a few degrees off. It will do for now.  Maybe a 123 distributpr down the track 😃
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on May 31, 2018, 09:20:18 AM
got my roadworthy! 1st attempt too :D Whoohoo just waiting on club permit paperwork. Thanks for all the guidance on the forum fellas. 
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Bourney on June 09, 2018, 05:24:28 PM
Congratulations! Great to have another Sud back on the road! [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on June 10, 2018, 09:54:54 PM
Thanks Bourney!  Have to get these suds lined up at spettacolo one day.
Used 4 days of my club permit already. Trying to aim headlights and get rid of the odd rattle. Just noticed a good one tonignt,  with keys out,  lights off,  put my foot down on brake pedal,  parker lights come on and binnacle back lighting 😳 i dont think that was an original included feature.  Back to the wiring diagram.
Title: Re: My new project, 83 Sud ti
Post by: Alfa.mg on November 04, 2018, 05:42:55 PM
Does anyone know if there was different jetting was on the 105hp? Just curious ;)